2

votes

Links for an Evolutionary diet for dogs?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 08, 2010 at 12:41 PM

So we have Mark Sisson's The Primal Eating Plan for Dogs but I'll be honest it's a little preachy for my purposes, so I am looking for some other links on the idea if anyone has any?

Im thinking it could be a useful backdoor for getting people thinking about the Paleo concept without the confrontational aspect of "what your doctor and TV is telling you is killing you" sort of deal... Everyone LOVES their pets!

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393

on October 30, 2011
at 09:35 PM

I'm not sure you've thought your answer out.

6de0fd2b127bfd5cfb09a7ccdf77c56c

(182)

on November 09, 2010
at 07:09 AM

You are ill informed, friend. Like Humans, dogs did not change their heavily meat based diet until post WWII (when big business took control of the dog food market), which was not long enough for any evolutionary changes. Physiologically dogs are the same as wolves. They are not "close ancestors" as we are to bonobos. They are actually the same species. Dogs' digestive systems have not evolved to eat anything except for their original raw meat, organ and bone diet. The research is out there. Check it out.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on November 08, 2010
at 05:36 PM

Look up "BARF" diet for dogs.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on November 08, 2010
at 03:19 PM

i wholeheartedly agree. i am not a yahoogroup-fan in general but the rawfeeding group on yahoo is an incredible source of information. It guided me through every single question i had when i began. My dog has been raw for over one year and has never had one single problem and i owe it all to that group. Amazing people, great information. Though as you read and learn more you start to realize that you already know all the answers - just that the whole idea is SO simple and straightforward (a lot like what we're all doing on these boards!). Its more UNlearning stuff we've been raised to think.

1568416ef28477d1fa29046218d83ddd

(6235)

on November 08, 2010
at 03:06 PM

I also suggest that you start by suggesting bones for bad breath and teeth health. Giving a bone for the teeth seems a lot smaller then a total diet change but also sets the path because we have all been told not to give our dogs bones or people food. Bones make the gums and teeth all pretty and help with doggie breath and then get you thinking about dog food in general.

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6 Answers

3
D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

on November 08, 2010
at 12:44 PM

Here is a link to a website on a diet for pets, which veterinarian, Peter Dobromylskyj, of Hyperlipid, recommends:

http://www.rawmeatybones.com/

Here is his recommended diet for dogs and cats:

http://www.rawmeatybones.com/diet/exp-diet-guide.pdf

Hope this is of use to you.

1568416ef28477d1fa29046218d83ddd

(6235)

on November 08, 2010
at 03:06 PM

I also suggest that you start by suggesting bones for bad breath and teeth health. Giving a bone for the teeth seems a lot smaller then a total diet change but also sets the path because we have all been told not to give our dogs bones or people food. Bones make the gums and teeth all pretty and help with doggie breath and then get you thinking about dog food in general.

2
Cf1189fc2e0acdd49ce566e43238ffb6

on November 08, 2010
at 03:40 PM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Steve Brown's "Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet"

2
E898c2f2df1cfdec26df439648463f5b

on November 08, 2010
at 02:42 PM

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on November 08, 2010
at 03:19 PM

i wholeheartedly agree. i am not a yahoogroup-fan in general but the rawfeeding group on yahoo is an incredible source of information. It guided me through every single question i had when i began. My dog has been raw for over one year and has never had one single problem and i owe it all to that group. Amazing people, great information. Though as you read and learn more you start to realize that you already know all the answers - just that the whole idea is SO simple and straightforward (a lot like what we're all doing on these boards!). Its more UNlearning stuff we've been raised to think.

1
71ef6fa9da502f1caa096f3047262f28

(130)

on November 20, 2012
at 03:54 PM

There are some great resources here. I started feeding my dog raw not too long ago. For those of you looking into it. I found the biggest source of confusion were the conflicting viewpoints on the BARF diet and the Prey Model Diet, not the same old adage that pet food is wrong. I agree, I was looking for so much more information on the why behind the raw feeding.

The BARF diet advocates the use of vegetables and fruits in the diet and often ground meat. The BARF diet is what you find in commercial raw dog food. It is still far too commercial for my liking and hence has to follow the AAFCO guidelines which is based on all the misinformation that all the other traditional dog food is based off of (ie. kibble). The Prey Model Diet advocates meat (not ground, yet can be fed occasionally or for dogs with dental problems, missing teeth, etc). Prey Model attempts to feed the closest version of what a wolf would eat in the wild. They provide whole pieces of meat and bones for their dogs to eat and the diet consists of meat, bones, and organs. They emphasize the importance of grinding down and breaking bone which provides mental and physical stimulation, exercise for the muscles in your dog's body, and dental benefits. The BARF diet although similar uses fruits and vegetables.

I think just as many of you found when starting paleo, most people have a hard time letting go of the preconceived notions they have about nutrition that has been instilled in our heads for quite a long time. The same goes for dogs. While most people are realizing the benefits of grain free products for dogs. There seems to be a huge debate in community over fruits and vegetables still. I had trouble with this myself and was constantly back and forth between the BARF and Prey Model Raw methodologies.

However, I've come to the conclusion and acceptance that dogs are carnivores, and despite what many want to believe, they don't need fruits and vegetables. Their digestive tracks are short and are not meant to handle vegetable/fruit matter which takes longer to digest and needs fermenting in the stomach. Additionally dogs cannot break down the cell wall in plant matter which is why you will see many people pureeing the fruits and veggies in a BARF diet so the dogs can more easily assimilate the nutrients from the vegetables. Do I think vegetables and fruits are bad and can never be given to dogs, no. But I don't think you have to stress about adding them to your dog's raw food except in small amounts if you chose to do so.

I would suggest really looking into a Prey Model diet for your dog as that is the true ancestral diet for them. I'm a member of the raw feeding group on yahoo as well and this group is primarily a prey model group. There are thousands of people on there with years of experience feeding raw and that's a great place to start reading and learning. Also I found these myth pages to be helpful in deciphering between the two diets for me at least.

http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html http://rawfed.com/myths/stomachcontents.html http://rawfed.com/myths/digestible.html http://rawfed.com/myths/preymodel.html http://rawfed.com/myths/feedraw.html

Again, raw diets are for better for your dog than any form of processed kibble (no matter how natural it is). You will see huge gains regardless of which one you choose. But if you really believe in species appropriate diets (as paleo is appropriate ancestral diet for humans) then you need to do your research and look at what wild wolves eat as they share an almost identical genetic makeup with dogs today (despite how domesticated they are).

Hope this helps

Amy M

1
6de0fd2b127bfd5cfb09a7ccdf77c56c

on November 08, 2010
at 04:02 PM

The yahoo group: Raw Learning is by far the best resource for raw dog feeding on the web. It blows away any other link. Start there and use the search function! Any possible question you may have has already been asked and answered many times over on that forum.

0
62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on November 09, 2010
at 03:52 AM

My advice, go look at a picture of a wolf. Then go and look at a picture of Fifi the poodle, or Jojo the chihuahua. What does that tell you? Our dogs have evolved and been bred away from their ancestors. THey no longer look, act, and survive the way wolfs do. Wolves are their closest ancestors but they are no longer wolves. What did dogs evolve to eat? I'd say, they evolved to eat what people eat. They evolved with us and we evolved with them and we all ate the same stuff. They got our table scraps. IN ancient times, the probably also hunted for their own game and some primitive breeds still can do that effectively, but most dog breeds have even evolved far away from that. Some dogs do great on raw but some of our little overbred weak kneed little fluff balls eating overprocessed contaminated not fresh grocery store meat can't always handle it. So raw does great for some dogs, but some dogs do better on cooked. Since we bred dogs to live with us, I suspect they are fine on cooked meat as well as raw. Dogs that did not do well on what humans ate were most likely lost out of the gene pool for long segments of their evolution with us. I think the main prob is that dog food kibble now (which is a very very recent invention) is basically made out of the waste products of industry with a bit of poorly digestable vitamin sprayed on. So it is basically crap. Big industry used to have to pay to put this stuff in a landfill but now they just make it into kibble and charge you for it instead. So I think most dogs do better on a meat heavy, offal heavy paleo style diet, the same thing we do better on. Although I suspect dogs are less acclimated to veggies. But they evolved with us and became what they are now due to living with us. Healthy paleo table scraps are probably the healthiest thing they can eat because for most of their evolution, they evolved with us and away from wolves.

6de0fd2b127bfd5cfb09a7ccdf77c56c

(182)

on November 09, 2010
at 07:09 AM

You are ill informed, friend. Like Humans, dogs did not change their heavily meat based diet until post WWII (when big business took control of the dog food market), which was not long enough for any evolutionary changes. Physiologically dogs are the same as wolves. They are not "close ancestors" as we are to bonobos. They are actually the same species. Dogs' digestive systems have not evolved to eat anything except for their original raw meat, organ and bone diet. The research is out there. Check it out.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393

on October 30, 2011
at 09:35 PM

I'm not sure you've thought your answer out.

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