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Is your paleo high animal fat/protein consumption relatively low carb (Mark Sisson) diet negatively effecting your thyroid and sex hormones?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 18, 2013 at 1:33 PM

I've heard you paleo folks respect a guy named Chris Masterjohn somewhat so I'll quote him on it:

???For the Indians of the far North this reinforcement??? ??? he???s talking about reinforcement of nutrition for pregnancy ??? ???was accomplished by supplying special feedings of organs of animals. Among the Indians in the moose country near the Arctic circle a larger percentage of the children were born in June than in any other month. This was accomplished, I was told, by both parents eating liberally of the thyroid glands of the male moose as they came down from the high mountain areas for the mating season, at which time the large protuberances carrying the thyroids under the throat were greatly enlarged.??? So, what he???s saying is when the moose were about to reproduce, they naturally went into a kind of hyperthyroid state where their thyroids were enlarged, and the people there would harvest the thyroid glands so that they could reproduce, and as a consequence, most of their children were born nine months after the moose mating season.

And what the indicates to me is ??? I mean, it???s difficult to interpret it because he doesn???t go into great detail, but I think what we might be seeing here is up in the Arctic circle ??? and these are the inland people, they???re not seacoast, so they probably don???t have a lot of iodine in the diet, they certainly don???t have a lot of carbohydrate in the diet. It seems like they, as part of their natural adaptation to their environment, they supplemented with thyroid hormone so that they could convert their cholesterol to sex hormones so that they could increase their fertility, and I think what we???re witnessing is perhaps a natural acknowledgement that under those certain conditions where you have an extremely carbohydrate-restricted diet, you may need supplemental thyroid hormone in order to maintain that fertility.

So all you vlc paleos (which I'm assuming is most of you, this may or may not be the case) hating on Durriander and Graham to you I ask you: are you just hating on them because you are jealous of their youthful vitality while simultaneously functioning subpar because you aren't able to produce adequate sex hormones to thrive on such a diet?

Has anyone here had their hormones tested before and after starting a paleo diet? Because if not you might not be qualified to answer this. Has your vlc/LC paleo diet hurt your hormone panel?

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on March 19, 2013
at 07:10 AM

An 80/10/10 diet is insane. There is no way I could maintain any significant muscle mass at those levels. I'll take my chances on Primal Blueprint / Paleo. Sisson...not athletic? Please...

A08b210e4da7e69cd792bddc1f4aae4b

(1031)

on March 18, 2013
at 10:25 PM

You took a wrong turn, you should be here: http://www.atkinsdietbulletinboard.com/forums/main-atkins-diet-forum/ They want you for a sunbeam!

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 18, 2013
at 09:24 PM

Dr is 35 and looks 45. Sisson is 58 and looks 45. Dr looks gaunt and sickly. Sisson has muscle. Sisson was an elite runner in his day, top 3 in the country. I don't new their numbers, I've got mine

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on March 18, 2013
at 05:54 PM

CD, why do you think Sisson is more youthful than DR? He's not athletic and there is no proof existing that his blood work is healthy. DR on the other hand is athletic and his blood work is perfect.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on March 18, 2013
at 05:37 PM

Hey vegan nitwits: You're welcome to post threads, but you better show some tact or every one of them will be closed and I'll start deleting your accounts on sight.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 18, 2013
at 04:40 PM

I'm not vlc. I am 100-150g carbs per day, ala Mark Sisson diet. I definite had a complete panel per paleo, 6 months paleo and 1 year paleo. Everything is significantly better now. Congrats on learning how to respond to answers.

Ca2c940a1947e6200883908592956680

(8574)

on March 18, 2013
at 02:41 PM

Ah ok, that makes a lot more sense to me and I think a much more beneficial balance.

A968017ef27f0a24abf64cc4460463a0

(142)

on March 18, 2013
at 02:21 PM

Well I don't follow the 80-10-10 if that's what you're asking, but I do love me some coconut oil. I can't imagine I get much less than 30% of calories from fat.

Ca2c940a1947e6200883908592956680

(8574)

on March 18, 2013
at 02:18 PM

Personally I think a 80/10/10 (C/P/F) diet is probably too low in protein and fat then is helpful. Can I ask how much fat do you normally consume per day?

A968017ef27f0a24abf64cc4460463a0

(142)

on March 18, 2013
at 02:15 PM

Okay, you didn't cite any blood results, hormone results and all you said is that the guy who said that quote is a former vegetarian and now he isn't and likes red meat. That doesn't exactly pertain to, relate to or answer my question. If anything that social proofs and increases the magnitude of my question, which is have the LC/vlc people here had their before and after hormone panels improve or worsen?

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6 Answers

7
Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on March 18, 2013
at 02:30 PM

"Low carb" alone usually means "lower carb than SAD". "Low carb" paleo is often even lower than that. You're not wrong in supposing that some have had issues with both LC+paleo - a quick browse of some questions on this site will even prove that.

However, personally, a diet high(-er than SAD) in healthy animal sourced foods and somewhere around 100-250g a day of carbohydrates (veggies, roots, tubers, fruits and all) which is still lower carb than SAD but "high" for paleo, has left me with improved thyroid function (tested) and a "zesty", improved sex drive (personal note, not "tested").

Then funny thing is, for paleo-ers to vegans, I think the biggest component of health regarding this question is maintaining a diet that allows one to be physically active.

As far as "hating" on Durianrider, that is more because he comes off as a complete jackass. He also doesn't come off as fit (he has that catabolized look), and he lauds his female partner's physique who I find troublingly thin. I really haven't given him much thought after I checked out his site many months ago.

4
C28ae8c7a12a730363835acf21e962a2

(715)

on March 18, 2013
at 04:46 PM

i don't follow a low carb diet in the slightest. in fact my diet is very high in fruit and vegetables.

i think there's a lot of merit to both diets. for me, after trying both paleo and HCLF, it was about finding a balance in the middle. i don't have any problem with doug graham other then i don't agree with a lot of what he says, but the reason i don't like durianrider is because he acts like a cult leader. he's a very angry man and in my opnion he's hurting the 80/10/10 lifestyle more then helping it. i don't want to listen to someone who makes youtube videos every day attacking people and regurgitating the same unfounded research over and over. reading the 30BAD is both amusing and depressing. it's filled with extremists (although there are some everywhere, including here) who take things to a ridiculous level. i even saw more then one person say they viewed orgasms as potentially harmful because they saw a study that showed the brain after an orgasm looked similar to a brain on heroine. i mean WTF. there are also a lot of young kids on there who are developing borderline eating disorders and they're practically encouraging it. it's just a very reckless environment.

as for my hormone levels, they've never been better.

2
7e1433afbb06c318c4d90860d493c49d

(5959)

on March 18, 2013
at 05:00 PM

In the 9 years since shifting toward paleo, I only attempted VLC a couple times, and I could not get past the brain-splitting headaches. But, that initial dietary shift, in September 2003, was to cut out almost all the starches except for two slices of sprouted whole grain toast in the evening, and I effortlessly lost 30 pounds over the following five months. Before that, under heavy influence of vegetarian dogmas about the idealness of whole grains and beans, I was a flabby, lethargic carb junkie, chained to the blood sugar roller coaster.

Several times, I've experimented with adding starches back into the diet, and I always find I feel better if I keep starch to a minimum. The 30ish% of carbohydrate in my diet mostly comes from 80/10/10 type fruits and veggies, and I feel great with that. I've never done lab tests for thyroid or hormone issues, so I don't know objectively if I actually do have problems on that score, but I am not afflicted with any condition that would cause me to have those tests done.

As for Durianrider and Graham, they are diet religion gurus who promote as ideal an extreme diet that many people do poorly on. I've had no exposure to Graham himself, but I've seen pictures of Durianrider, and I've seen his obnoxious online behavior. There is nothing about Durianrider for which I am jealous; to me, he looks like an anorexic, and he is clearly an emotionally damaged individual.

2
5e5ff249c9161b8cd96d7eff6043bc3a

(4713)

on March 18, 2013
at 02:22 PM

I think your assumption about most being VLC is in fact mistaken and I don't think your statement about hormones is contentious. If you spent some time looking around the site and trying to understand some paleo viewpoints instead of just attempting to assert your superiority with posts you mistakenly think will make us all abandon paleo and jump on the vegan bandwagon, you'd find that many people have posted about this same thing, and that many people eat higher carb versions of paleo for a variety of reasons, hormone profiles among those. There's a definite acknowledgment that no one thing that works for everyone.

1
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 18, 2013
at 02:00 PM

If you think Durriander has more youthful vitality than Sisson you are crazy. But since you like to quote Masterjohn:

About six years ago, largely under the influence of John Robbin's book, Diet For a New America, I became a vegetarian. Soon after, I went vegan, meaning I abstained from all animal products, including eggs and dairy. I thought this dietary change would lead me to a paradise of abundant health, but I was sadly mistaken.

...

In the second year of being vegetarian, I began having several full-blown panic attacks per week that were becoming disabling. I was overall lethargic and apathetic. And then, I went to the dentist and was struck with the final blow. Fifteen cavities, and two dead teeth needing root canals!

...

That Christmas I decided to partake of the meat at my family's feast. For the past couple months, I'd been suffering from cravings for red meat, including smelling it when it wasn't even there. So I gorged. I ate lots of red meat, and ate it every day. Within two weeks, my panic attacks completely stopped. For good.

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Vegetarianism.html

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 18, 2013
at 09:24 PM

Dr is 35 and looks 45. Sisson is 58 and looks 45. Dr looks gaunt and sickly. Sisson has muscle. Sisson was an elite runner in his day, top 3 in the country. I don't new their numbers, I've got mine

A968017ef27f0a24abf64cc4460463a0

(142)

on March 18, 2013
at 02:15 PM

Okay, you didn't cite any blood results, hormone results and all you said is that the guy who said that quote is a former vegetarian and now he isn't and likes red meat. That doesn't exactly pertain to, relate to or answer my question. If anything that social proofs and increases the magnitude of my question, which is have the LC/vlc people here had their before and after hormone panels improve or worsen?

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on March 18, 2013
at 05:54 PM

CD, why do you think Sisson is more youthful than DR? He's not athletic and there is no proof existing that his blood work is healthy. DR on the other hand is athletic and his blood work is perfect.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 18, 2013
at 04:40 PM

I'm not vlc. I am 100-150g carbs per day, ala Mark Sisson diet. I definite had a complete panel per paleo, 6 months paleo and 1 year paleo. Everything is significantly better now. Congrats on learning how to respond to answers.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on March 19, 2013
at 07:10 AM

An 80/10/10 diet is insane. There is no way I could maintain any significant muscle mass at those levels. I'll take my chances on Primal Blueprint / Paleo. Sisson...not athletic? Please...

1
E6c14efded576a0bea38a2fe2beced6a

on March 18, 2013
at 01:49 PM

I can't speak to comparing Paleo to Low Carb Paleo but I can say my numbers have improved from my SAD days to my current low carb Paleo lifestyle.

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