13

votes

Is Paleo a One-Hit-Wonder?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created August 02, 2011 at 5:22 PM

Many people of my generation will remember the rock band Iron Butterfly. We spent cannabis-laced evenings entranced by the sound of In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida It was a great song, but the Butterfly blew its wad on it. I don't remember any other song by the Butterfly. I must have listened to other tracks on the album (once!) and I must have purchased their other albums hoping for another song of that caliber, but the Butterfly never produced.

I am wondering if the same could not be said of the Paleo diet. Sure, a lot of people lose weight. We wean ourselves from SAD or finally get off gluten. That's positive. However, a lot of us (not all, mind you) also eventually hit a wall with it. So, do you think that Paleo is best viewed as a transitional diet? That beyond achieving a few target goals (like losing weight), it is not healthfully sustained over a long period? I wonder if this could not be said of almost all diets, not just Paleo.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

See? It's the damn semantics! If we stripped the word "paleo" from our language in the context of nutrition we'd find more common ground. Now you're making me crave some curry :) I may just have some chick peas too! But I still get shit from "paleos" about my oats and lentils. Fuck it. It works for me.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Not sure how I got thrown into the ménage à trois of toxic foods, but I'm not into a sausage fest. So hit the road Kamalinator

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 04, 2011
at 09:33 PM

I don't see what is pretentious about it but reasonable people can disagree. The terms Paleo and Evolution are just asking for contention and debate, and I think Ancestral is relatively benign...like ANCESTRAL Health Symposium. The other term I thought of is the Toxicologist's Diet. Some toxins are dose dependent. Some are toxic at any level.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on August 04, 2011
at 07:12 PM

Though the concept framework is clearer, the term ancestral diet sounds pretentious. Theologian Carl Bart said, "read the Bible in one hand, and the newspaper in the other." Similarly with nutrition "read the medical journals in one hand and a history book in the other."

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 04, 2011
at 05:07 PM

May Patrik delete your account. What he did to Thomas Seay, he can do to you!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 04, 2011
at 05:04 PM

Thank you Patrik for deleting Thomas Seay. You showed him. Looks like you might have to sweep the house even more!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 04, 2011
at 05:02 PM

If Patrik wants to delete Thomas Seay's account, he has every right to do so. So stop complaining!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 04, 2011
at 04:19 PM

@Kamal - Yes, its like little Jacky Paper. Let's see if you get that reference :)

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 04, 2011
at 03:53 PM

Oopsie. Thomas is Gone with the Wind. We will miss you TMS. At least you can retire in peace now :)

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 04, 2011
at 01:31 PM

@aravind hahhhh... good stuff...

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 04, 2011
at 01:27 PM

@LB - Dude, he was commenting on your picture, but now I am going to be violated by his man-lovin'??? NFW!!! Ok, well if that's how it's going to play out, then I'm definitely the pitcher. And I'm totally down with the coconut oil. See my comments on the following post - http://paleohacks.com/questions/53473/so-how-do-you-take-your-coconut-oil/53483#53483

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 04, 2011
at 01:14 PM

@CW and AC - Thanks!

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 04, 2011
at 01:13 PM

@aravind good luck with that, bro. coconut oil is paleo.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on August 04, 2011
at 01:01 PM

+1 for a beautiful answer

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on August 04, 2011
at 12:59 PM

I think that now that we have all agreed on the basics, we want to fight over the style details. Basics: gluten, chemically processed oils, and super fake foods are evil... And the sun is hot to the touch. ,,, holy beef, I just tried to summarize all the diddly details we fight over, and there is no way I fouls fit it into this box.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on August 04, 2011
at 10:15 AM

Baconbitch writes: "Big turn off and why I'm weaning myself from PH." --- you have been invited to leave before, yet it is you that returns. Feel free to leave permanently anytime.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on August 04, 2011
at 10:11 AM

@baconbitch -- your phrasing, like Thomas' is clumsy -- but this topic should be explored. Too bad it is being so by you/Thomas. That said, I am curious as to what worked for and what didn't work for you --- and why you think that?

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on August 04, 2011
at 10:09 AM

@Thomas --- you are incorrect, but are able to craft strawmen very well. What I describe as Paleo is radically different than what you describe.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on August 04, 2011
at 10:08 AM

@mem -- uhm, thanks

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on August 04, 2011
at 05:31 AM

+1 for Seacrest

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on August 04, 2011
at 05:09 AM

@Patrik: Your answer is excellent and I am very much in your corner. But you really *do* need to work on getting your cortisol level down....

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 04, 2011
at 04:13 AM

omg this is getting weird but it's pretty cool anyways.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 04, 2011
at 04:13 AM

omg this getting weird but it's pretty cool anyways.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 04, 2011
at 04:07 AM

Tar: many raccoons wiled knives, that's not me. I like his style, though. Aravind: Nope, not going to AHS. Maybe next time. I do have plenty of paleo buddies there, but no money for plane tickets and ticket tickets. Baconbitch: I'm still part of that world. It just doesn't gratify me like the paleohacks rep system does. I yelled at like 3 people there yesterday. Kamal: this is actually an imagined snow-globe world of an autistic kid who exists in an imagined snowglobe world of an austistic kid, who is in an imagined snowglobe world of an autistic kid, named Kamal. Dun dun dun...

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 04, 2011
at 03:09 AM

Meredith-- I want to process you into marshmallow fluff and pour too much of you onto the brownie sundae I made out of Aravind.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on August 04, 2011
at 02:49 AM

@ Kamal - I want to sprinkle YOU on my Kashi! Okay, I don't eat Kashi. I want to peel you, chop you and put you in my cottage cheese! :)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 04, 2011
at 02:48 AM

Fine, I'll throw a tomato at Uncle Loren at the symposium.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 04, 2011
at 02:24 AM

Hold on baconbitch, have you been saying things about Stabby in "St. Elsewhere"? Is paleohacks just an imagined snow-globe world of an autistic child? Was this too esoteric to even type?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 04, 2011
at 02:19 AM

Let's all be friends. No matter how much we disagree about definitions and stuff, we (I think) can agree that a breakfast of Kashi cereal with skim milk and whole wheat toast probably isn't as healthy as most people think. And as long as we can agree about Kashi, we will remain Good Friends. In fact, that's what paleo really is--uncovering the truth about Kashi cereal. All those other definitions are bunk.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 04, 2011
at 02:11 AM

I take bromances very seriously. This weekend is Aravind's tryout.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on August 04, 2011
at 01:43 AM

I went VLC to solve some gut issues and then slowly increased the carbs. Now the majority of my calories come from carbs and I occasionally eat beans and lentils with no problems. Too many this is still considered Paleo, but Paleo is such a broad term

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on August 04, 2011
at 01:42 AM

I want VLC to solve some gut issues and then slowly increased the carbs. Now the majority of my carbs come from carbs and I occasionally eat beans and lentils with no problems. Too many this is still considered Paleo, but Paleo is such a broad term.

7fe08b47d7d073a906802a4170ae24bf

(350)

on August 04, 2011
at 01:15 AM

WOW! What variation of paleo where you doing? I had problems at first with athletic performance and libido when I was doing VLC paleo. Once I upped the carbs it immediately solved the problem and now feel fantastic! :)

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on August 04, 2011
at 12:56 AM

But clean eating is an easier concept to redefine than Paleo.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on August 04, 2011
at 12:42 AM

My thoughts exactly.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 04, 2011
at 12:18 AM

Also, what I presumed to be a "clean" diet before learning about paleo was full of whole wheat and vegetable oil, with as little saturated fat as possible. The only reason I reconsidered the science on fats was because of being introduced to paleo. So the starting point is quite different for a regular nutrition enthusiast and a nutrition enthusiast who has read a lot of paleo stuff.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 04, 2011
at 12:01 AM

baconbitch-- We all sort of agree that "paleo" means different things to different people. Some people are more into the semantics than others. But we all got here because we started thinking about if our diets were good for us. Who knows what our ancestors specifically ate, or how much we've adapted. But like Aravind says, some things are bad, and no one is going to go back to high vegetable oil and gluten diets. I've also been eating less meat and more starch and seeing how things go. Overall, I find thinking about how my ancestors ate to simply be a good starting point.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on August 03, 2011
at 09:05 PM

Wait .... What's the point of the word paleo. It seems to be an obtuse way of saying 'evolution' is important.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 03, 2011
at 09:00 PM

Oh, how I love this answer. Yes, it's a way to think about the human body -- perfect.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 08:20 PM

+1. "Paleo" is different than if the name had been "The XYZ" diet, something abstract. The word implies looking backward (to the Paleolithic period) for some ideal diet. It becomes more apparent to me that that is a futile effort. Instead we need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that the answer lies in the past. To the extent that Paleo helps people break free of unhealthy foods, it is good. To the extent that it fixes our gaze on the past or on a fixed idea of diet that limits our ability to experiment with foods or other food approaches that might be even healthier for us, it is bad

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 03, 2011
at 07:56 PM

I guess it just depends on how you got introduced to it. I got it from cordain with his first book and then with the athlete version, then Wolf. It all seemed much simpler than this thread makes it out to be. Don't eat deleterious things with these being defined as grains legumes and dairy. The name paleo is lame but what does it matter? In order to talk about anything, a way of eating included, you need a label and parameters. It's just convenient, I'm certainly not married to it. Call it the anti inflammatory diet.But to say that excluding those things is not sustainable is silly

Medium avatar

(5639)

on August 03, 2011
at 06:51 PM

@LuckyBastard I think you should take a look at my fracking thread.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 06:50 PM

in my original comment, i was bemoaning the fact that paleo means so many things to different people that the word is close to being rendered obsolete. i've stated many times on here what it means for me. i choose to concentrate on the fact that there certainly items that were definitely NOT in their diets(or in their diets at the level they're in ours) that there is a good amount of evidence that they're causing problems in ours. that's where i've been for a good while now. that's where many of the people on this board are. i think that's where the exasperation comes from.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 06:47 PM

So, why not see Paleo as a possible transitional diet and not get weighted down by all of this pseudo-scientific talk about it being based on evolution?! Evolution has become the new replacement for the Bible. In other words, rather than develop a diet based upon your own environment and bioindividualism, we look for some paragon from the Paleolithic age. Of course, if you say, no, it's just about getting rid of crap (whatever that means) from your diet, then the term Paleo becomes meaningless. It's an obvious reference to eating according to evolutionary mandates.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 06:38 PM

What part do I need to elaborate? Sure I can meditate, etc. etc. However, there might be dietary changes that need to be made. Paleo is a good starting place. For some, it might be a final place, however, like any paradigm, what was at one time useful could blind you. Despite the protean nature LB and others want to attribute to Paleo, there are still a number of assumptions (which as soon as I mention them, somebody will say is not essentially paleo) such as heavy meat eating which doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Believe it or not, LB I am not just throwing darts at Paleo.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 05:08 PM

@LB - grill almost any fruit on a kebab stick drowned in butter and you will love me for it!

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 04:55 PM

that sounds pretty good. my mouth just started watering.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 04:50 PM

Ah - I missed the "excess". Sorry buddy. I don't associate fructose with anything but fruit. I'll be damned if I'm putting HFCS in my body. Peaches this year are da bomb! I'm grilling some with butter and cinnamon this weekend!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 04:35 PM

I just snarfed some dairy out of my nose whilst making my lentil soup :)

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 03:49 PM

continued...I just finished lunch - a home cooked Indian meal of white rice and traditionally prepared Lentils and do not feel in the least bit that I've "cheated". Clearly the semantic arguments about "what is Paleo" is a never ending debate and an utter fucking waste of time. Thanks for providing the clarification :-)

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 03:48 PM

@BB - I have always maintained (and posted repeatedly here on PH) that my definition of Paleo is as per the Archevore prime directive to avoid the 3 horsemen NADs - 1) Avoid gluten, 2) Avoid excess O-6, 3) Avoid excess fructose. Everything else (dairy, macronutrients, etc) is in the weeds to me. So when I read your modifications, I do not see a contradiction.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:33 PM

@bb i say excess fructose because i do much better on fruit too. omg, the strawberries and peaches i am getting this summer are so aweome. i have been eating 3 peaches a day and when i want to change up, i do a pound of strawberries. when i say fructose, i'm talking about the excess that comes from excessive amounts of sugar and hfcs from processed junk. they'll have to pry my peaches from my cold dead hands!!!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:29 PM

@LB Agreed. TMS needs to develop that thought out better. TMS, you there - please clarify??? The one point with which I disagree with you is the fructose. I do better with more fruit. I took it out for months and now bringing it back with great results. No, I won't overdo it but some fruit everyday keeps the scurvy away:) Plus its summer and I love me some berries in heavy cream!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:24 PM

Its not the food necessarily it is what @Mer said above. I can't replicate paleo man because that would be impossible. Specifically though I brought back oatmeal and lentils. I decreased my meat consumption and decreased my fat. I'm back to eating the way I did a couple of years ago. I was NEVER a SAD eater. Nothing I eat comes from packages except the oats and lentils. I have always shopped at farmer's markets, I get my fish a local fish monger, I get my meat from the farm down the street. To me, that isn't "Paleo" it is eating clean.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:11 PM

@Aravind - I felt the same when I realized Kamal was a dude. But I love him anyway :) @Stabby - your succint comment just TOTALLY summed it all up. Man - you got some loving from the Bacon Bitch. We've been saying great things about you "elsewhere". Some of us miss the Raccoon.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:08 PM

@bb thanks and very nice blog btw.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:06 PM

and to deal with stress he can get a full 8 hours or maybe start some kind of meditation. i just dont see how "we live in a polluted, stress-filled environment" leads to the conclusion that this diet won't help that or at least negate alot of the effects.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:06 PM

@bb what i'm a bit confused about is the fact that there's pretty much a consensus after getting the excess fructose, glucose and industrial seed oils out of your diet that there's individual tweaking that needs to be done. those 3 things alone get rid of alot of internal pollution- the type that we have a lot more control over. shooting darts at the diet- or what he thinks the diet is- is a misguided exercise, i believe. if he's worried about pollutants, he can start focusing on not consuming food from bpa containing containers to start.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 03:05 PM

@BB - perhaps you have already covered this elsewhere - what are the changes you've made that encapsulate "leaving Paleo"? Thanks

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:04 PM

Great answer, Kamal. Though getting grains and industrial seed oils isn't necessary "paleo" it certainly is something I will keep post-paleo. Again, great pic. Holy hell.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:00 PM

I'm unsure why @Patrik is so defensive. Big turn off and why I'm weaning myself from PH. @LuckyBastard disagrees in a very thoughtful and intelligent way. @Patrik, I'd take a lesson from him and every person on this thread who disagrees with courtesy and logic. Just sayin.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:58 PM

I agree, Ben but I think some of us are taking issue with the premise of Paleo. The name is irksome and to me, misleading. If paleo is just taking out 3 things then how the heck can we call it paleo? In fact, I just brought lentils back into my diet along with rice and oatmeal. My mood is improving and I've lost some fluff around the mid-section. Also, there is NO way any of us can really eat like a paleo man. It is impossible. I'm not saying eating clean is impossible but that eating exactly like paleolithic man is not happening because we evolved and need to continue to evolve.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:50 PM

I'm woman enough to admit I was wrong about Paleo. It provided a good foundation but after more and more research I have decided it is not optimal. In fact, I think it could be harmful. Since leaving Paleo I actually feel better, I've lost a couple of pounds and I'm not stressing over every minute detail about my food.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:48 PM

I came out of PH retirement for this! Totally agree TMS. Eating a basic "clean" diet with individual experimentation is NOT paleo. Jeezus - did paleo man hack is gut flora? Hell no. Did paleo man eat sh*t that caused disease, death, and discomfort. I'm pretty sure he did. Yup, they experimented but there is NO way they ate perfectly. They ate what they could find and sometimes it was surely less than optimal. This is why I, and many others, cringe at the word paleo. I'm calling my bullshit on what I thought was a good diet.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:45 PM

@Luckybastard - sidenote: Daaaaaang. Hot picture!!! Whoa.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:45 PM

Very well said @Mer!!! Yes, yes, and yes on all account. It is NOT about what people ate a bajillion years ago, it is how we eat to adapt to our modern world TODAY. I wish I could +5 you :) @Luckybastard - I don't think TMS would disagree. He's saying the pollution is another factor we need to analyze that doesn't fit into the paleo man's world.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:39 PM

@thomas well, if the paleo diet is stressing "clean", whole food then it should be acting to counteract living in a polluted environment, right? and the diet isn't the only thing that many paleos preach about. robb wolf talks about adequate sleep, kresser, guyenet and harris have all touched on meditation. so thomas, i'm not really getting how the approach that this community takes isn't conducive to living in modern times. what kind of diet/lifestyle would be more conducive to "living well in the modern world". individual tweaking needs to be done but removing the toxins is a huge first step.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:33 PM

You're the clumsy one Patrik. You keep clinging to this notion of Paleo, when it's almost meaningless. Paleo had become "throw out the junk and do what best works for you". Ok, that's fine, but people have been saying that for a long time before Paleo. Vegans say that, vegetarians say that. Oh yeah, and then for good measure-so you can claim to be "Paleo"-try to justify it on some evolutionary grounds, sight some studies that you've probably never even read, except for the extract and then claim that you've taken the scientific high ground. That's what Paleo is.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 02:27 PM

I love how Kamal completely ignored the bromance part of the comments from me and LB :-)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:25 PM

Maybe I shouldn't speak for Meredith, but I think what she means is that our situation is different than that of Paleolithic man. We live in a polluted, stress-filled environment, and so maybe our diet needs to take that into account.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:24 PM

thhq, I see what you are saying, and I think you are in part right. People expect too much. However, some people do have problems with Paleo.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 03, 2011
at 01:44 PM

I like this riff and I'm shot full of caffeine. I'm thinking about how paleo is voluntary, whereas for grok it was mandatory. So people try it, lose some weight, gain it back and wander off to something else. Kind of like the Airplane...how could you surpass White Rabbit or Two Heads....and so off to being the starship, and then nothing. But they could have stuck with the early playlist forever and it would have been just fine. So in the sense of paleo, how will YOU persevere? Are you happy with good enough is good enough? Grok didn't have a choice.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 01:02 PM

So sorry MR Raccoon. I feel yet another Crying Game moment like when I first realized Kamal was a dude. Then again, man loving is totally Paleo so it's cool. Gender notwithstanding, I always enjoy your commentary here on PH. Are you going to be at AHS?

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on August 03, 2011
at 11:48 AM

OMG. Kamal. Best pick up line, EVAR.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on August 03, 2011
at 06:11 AM

Oh Stabby, I just think the internet forum world of you. BTW I thought for a second that your knife wielding raccoon was the same raccoon in Seattle's "Stranger" seen here: http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Shop (I am moving there in about 2 weeks so i was checking it out), but they are different, almost as if your raccoon were his evil cousin....dot dot dot

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 03, 2011
at 05:26 AM

I'm actually a guy raccoon. Last time I didn't want to say anything, but now I'm telling you. An understandable mistake considering I was calling guys hot, I was calling guys and gals hot, actually. Sometimes I think that I sound like a middle-aged lady as well. That's not intentional but I would have to consciously try not to. Anyway, thanks for comment.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 04:41 AM

Nice post and comments Ms Raccoon!

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on August 03, 2011
at 04:18 AM

Meredith writes: "If the Paleo diet is comprised of foods that we are best adapted to eat, then isn't that a bit backwards? Wouldn't we all be better off eating foods that optimize our ability to adapt to contemporary demands?" -- sounds cute & all, but what does this even mean?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 03, 2011
at 04:07 AM

i can totally be your wingman! "have you met luckybastard? he likes mixed martial arts and safe starches. and i'm betting his diet gives him really good bowel movements."

B1859f696e88d25460a6b8a333412ea3

(837)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:45 AM

Thai on Monday nights?

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 03:33 AM

Awesome! I will see you and raise you with the Big Bang Diet. Checkmate!

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 01:29 AM

@akd thanks, lady :-)

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on August 03, 2011
at 12:31 AM

you guys are hilarious. great, great answer LB, and awesome taste in music, too. im sorry about the gf though. if its any consolation, you do look pretty hot. ;)

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11488)

on August 03, 2011
at 12:16 AM

@Thomas, anyone who can write a question around "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" gets +1 from me.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11488)

on August 03, 2011
at 12:14 AM

@wjones, Ginger Baker was part of Cream and Blind Faith, but I don't believe he played for Iron Butterfly. Here's his website: http://www.gingerbaker.com/index.htm .

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 12:03 AM

@aravind hahahaha. bromances are indeed healthy. the hunt gets lonely, my friend... kamal seems like a natural-born wingman

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on August 02, 2011
at 11:46 PM

yes stabby, yes!

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 02, 2011
at 11:36 PM

@LuckyB - nice answer +1

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 02, 2011
at 11:35 PM

I guess we know who Kamal is shacking up with at AHS. Don't worry, bromances are totally Paleo so it's cool.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 02, 2011
at 11:34 PM

I guess we know who Kamal is shacking up with at AHS. Don't worry, man love is totally Paleo it's cool. Lest we forget, we are in the trust tree

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 11:32 PM

The Goddess has spoken and (as is usual) spoken well!!!!

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on August 02, 2011
at 11:32 PM

Wish I could + 5 this...

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on August 02, 2011
at 11:27 PM

@Aravind - I never pictured you to be so pale - almost pure white. With whiskers too! :)

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 02, 2011
at 11:17 PM

Welcome back Princess!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 09:30 PM

I love it when I get downvoted without an explanation.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 02, 2011
at 09:26 PM

@kamal took the quilt's advice and dumped the gf cuz she wouldnt go paleo. Just kidding- about following quilt's advice, not the breakup. @Melissa awwww thx @fg keep workin on them. My parents are the biggest advocates of this way of life and they initially were the hardest to convert

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on August 02, 2011
at 09:25 PM

Nice answer. And Radiohead refuses to play "Creep" at their concerts, last I heard -- just like Kurt Harris doesn't want to use the word "paleo" ... It was just something we needed to do to for the money!

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on August 02, 2011
at 08:01 PM

YES, totally!! Good golly Miss Molly, if I could just get my parents to ditch the high-fructose corn syrup partially hydrogenated soybean oil coffee creamer (and all other industrial oils)...and their mini-wheats and hockey puck sandwich bread thins, I would be so grateful. I would consider it a huge, very positive step if they went WAPF, but at this point prospects of even that happening (much less full-on classical paleo or lacto-paleo) are slim.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:57 PM

Emulating the behavior Thomas. The diet is uncertain, but the lifestyle isn't. We've lost the connection between hunger and physical exertion to find food.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:48 PM

Its not a one hit wonder and in health terms is really not that different from health professions. For the most part you agree upon a base (evolutionary nutrition, genetic expression of good health through lifestyle changes, wheat bad, sugar bad, whole foods good)...then you have your factions that disagree on what in the end seem to be minor points of contention based more on personal preference and character than hard science. It allows for some maneuvering for the individual while giving a good starting point for all...end rant i guess.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:31 PM

If I had never seen Grateful Dead live, I would not be a Grateful Dead fan.. What do you mean Lifestyle before diet?

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:25 PM

A community for evolutionary nutrition, that's what I want. I don't want THE PALEO DIET.

32123f4f25bdf6a7b70c9c2a719386ed

(396)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:25 PM

I love "Its a Beautiful Day" the White Bird album is good one for the most part. White Bird of course is the best song on the album though.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:24 PM

I want to call it Evolutionary Nutrition. The practice of looking at what we are bestadapted to eat. Diets of hunter-gatherer ancestors and even agrarian ancestors can serve as hypotheses to what natural selection might have produced The problem is some people think that they know exactly what kinds of macronutrient ratios are best simply by looking at "what grok ate", which is absurd. We have been have able to discern which foods tend to be more problematic than others, but as for macronutrients and degrees of different kinds of foods, we actually have to use empirical evidence.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:23 PM

As you know I started another similar (but not identical thread) called "What is the Paleolithic Diet?". It seems that the boundaries of what Paleo is get hazier and hazier. Whenever someone raises an issue that Paleo might have limitations, the response depicts Paleo in protean terms: it becomes "whatever works is Paleo". Kamal said elsewhere that Paleo is scientific. That's not true. How can you test (to prove or refute) something that has almost no strictly definable features.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:23 PM

I want to call it Evolutionary Nutrition. The practice of looking at what we are bestadapted to eat. Diets of hunter-gatherer ancestors and even agrarian ancestors can serve as hypotheses to what natural selection might have produced The problem is some people think that they know exactly what kinds of macronutrient ratios are best simply by looking at "what grok ate", which is absurd. We have been have to discern which foods tend to be more problematic than others, but as for macronutrients and degrees of different kinds of foods, we actuallt have to use empirical evidence. That's the method.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:18 PM

Love it, Kamal. He is also a Handsome Bastard. ;)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:11 PM

<> Ok, look, I don't give a rat's butt about all this talk of Evolution, which seems to be a cornerstone of Paleo. It sounds good, but as posited, has not worked out. I have been doing well eating MUCH less meat. I basically eat animal flesh once a day, and that *SEEMS* to be working better for me. I am eating LOTS of fruit and lots of dairy. So, yes, if Paleo is defined as "a diet in which you find what works for you, then that opens it up to just about anything."

Acc38052c1efe7fc4338dc55f2428bfe

(242)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:06 PM

Agreed. Obsession over labels or generalizing strictly dialed in approaches seem to be silly reasons to call "paleo" a bust. Unless one comes to believe including large amounts oils, sugar and/or grain in ones diet is healthy, I think the framework will remain relevant.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:06 PM

Danielle, what does float your boat? :)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:00 PM

fyi-- someone seems to have hacked your account and replaced your avatar with a picture of a male model.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:50 PM

yes, yes, and yes.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

(8878)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:38 PM

Anything with Ginger Baker is super paleo...

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:36 PM

Absolutely! Paleo is an approach to thinking about food and finding out what works for you. It's not a set macronutrient ratio. It's not Cordain or Whole30 or Primal or PaNu or PHD (but if any of those work for you - fantastic!). It's not ketogenic, low carb, high carb, cyclic carb, probiotic or anti-rice/anti-dairy/anti-potatoes. Those are simply tools to be used for certain situations. Paleo is experimenting to see what works and to remain curious (and skeptical and scientific). If you've hit a wall with paleo, it's due to a limited view of it. Or, you just want to have pizza and beer.

65430e39d7e9e9322718d016fe668051

(2944)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:16 PM

I hate the term "paleo". I prefer "primal" or "evolutionary health" but even those don't float my boat too well.

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:04 PM

+1 for sayin it betta

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:02 PM

ok, I thought a big part of paleo already was finding what works for oneself, but perhaps one can stop calling it paleo at some point to keep out of etymology controversies

23cdea3bba94e17d2b58b525773d0c0a

(729)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:59 PM

I think he means transition FROM SAD and onto a path of finding what works for you.

  • 77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

    asked by

    (78467)
  • Views
    3.4K
  • Last Activity
    1258D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

22 Answers

19
66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

on August 02, 2011
at 06:36 PM

i can see why kurt harris struggled with and eventually disavowed the term paleo or why stephan guyenet and other "ancestral health-friendly" bloggers don't identify as paleo. the term has become so loaded to the point where it's up to where you are inclined to ask what the person who you're talking to thinks paleo is. in conversation with people outside of the community, i very rarely utter the word paleo because i'm aware that i'd have to shoulder some of the burdens associated with it that i don't ascribe to such as the low-carb or no dairy dogma.

so back to the one-hit wonder corollary. i actually find paleo to be more like my favorite band-radiohead. to a casual music fan, they'll be known for their one-hit wonder "creep". but for music nerds they'll be known as a band who has put out at least 3 classic albums and is still EVOLVING 20 years after their "one hit" when they flashed in the public's conscience and then disappeared.

i'm of no illusion that this way of life is for many- if not most in modern society. preparing your food is a lost art and many people really could give a damn. but we all can influence our own circles and hopefully a few people will care enough to take out the most damaging agents of disease- i don't care about whether they're orthodox paleo or not, just get the friggin gluten, fructose and industrial seed oils out of the diet. hopefully, as the information disseminates, it finds someone who's been searching for it...

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 12:03 AM

@aravind hahahaha. bromances are indeed healthy. the hunt gets lonely, my friend... kamal seems like a natural-born wingman

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on August 02, 2011
at 09:25 PM

Nice answer. And Radiohead refuses to play "Creep" at their concerts, last I heard -- just like Kurt Harris doesn't want to use the word "paleo" ... It was just something we needed to do to for the money!

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 02, 2011
at 11:36 PM

@LuckyB - nice answer +1

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:04 PM

Great answer, Kamal. Though getting grains and industrial seed oils isn't necessary "paleo" it certainly is something I will keep post-paleo. Again, great pic. Holy hell.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on August 03, 2011
at 11:48 AM

OMG. Kamal. Best pick up line, EVAR.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on August 03, 2011
at 12:31 AM

you guys are hilarious. great, great answer LB, and awesome taste in music, too. im sorry about the gf though. if its any consolation, you do look pretty hot. ;)

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:50 PM

yes, yes, and yes.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:18 PM

Love it, Kamal. He is also a Handsome Bastard. ;)

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 02, 2011
at 09:26 PM

@kamal took the quilt's advice and dumped the gf cuz she wouldnt go paleo. Just kidding- about following quilt's advice, not the breakup. @Melissa awwww thx @fg keep workin on them. My parents are the biggest advocates of this way of life and they initially were the hardest to convert

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 02, 2011
at 11:34 PM

I guess we know who Kamal is shacking up with at AHS. Don't worry, man love is totally Paleo it's cool. Lest we forget, we are in the trust tree

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on August 02, 2011
at 08:01 PM

YES, totally!! Good golly Miss Molly, if I could just get my parents to ditch the high-fructose corn syrup partially hydrogenated soybean oil coffee creamer (and all other industrial oils)...and their mini-wheats and hockey puck sandwich bread thins, I would be so grateful. I would consider it a huge, very positive step if they went WAPF, but at this point prospects of even that happening (much less full-on classical paleo or lacto-paleo) are slim.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on August 02, 2011
at 11:32 PM

Wish I could + 5 this...

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:00 PM

fyi-- someone seems to have hacked your account and replaced your avatar with a picture of a male model.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 01:29 AM

@akd thanks, lady :-)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 03, 2011
at 04:07 AM

i can totally be your wingman! "have you met luckybastard? he likes mixed martial arts and safe starches. and i'm betting his diet gives him really good bowel movements."

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 04, 2011
at 01:31 PM

@aravind hahhhh... good stuff...

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 02:27 PM

I love how Kamal completely ignored the bromance part of the comments from me and LB :-)

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 02, 2011
at 11:35 PM

I guess we know who Kamal is shacking up with at AHS. Don't worry, bromances are totally Paleo so it's cool.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 04, 2011
at 01:27 PM

@LB - Dude, he was commenting on your picture, but now I am going to be violated by his man-lovin'??? NFW!!! Ok, well if that's how it's going to play out, then I'm definitely the pitcher. And I'm totally down with the coconut oil. See my comments on the following post - http://paleohacks.com/questions/53473/so-how-do-you-take-your-coconut-oil/53483#53483

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 04, 2011
at 02:11 AM

I take bromances very seriously. This weekend is Aravind's tryout.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 04, 2011
at 01:13 PM

@aravind good luck with that, bro. coconut oil is paleo.

15
93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on August 03, 2011
at 05:34 AM

The Paleo Diet is hardly a one-hit wonder ---- it is BIG F***G DEAL.

As I have maintained and advocated for -- the Paleo Diet is a rule-about-rules because it has to be.

There can only be one consistent truth i.e. think about nutrition from an evolutionary perspective because knowledge is frail and wisdom is scarce.

I repeat for the 1,000,000th time: what we think of as the Paleo Diet is changing, will change and should change as better thinking & evidence accumulates.

If people like Thomas don't do well on Paleo-type diets --- then BY ALL MEANS, they should STOP doing them and re-evaluate their nutrition/health to figure out what/why they do well on a certain diet.

And what is missing is individual context (which is what Thomas is arguing for in a very clumsy manner) -- which btw is what I think The Quilt is bringing to the table and should deserve credit for --- what is the context of our "bio-individual" health?

Before you started eating Paleo:
Was your gut healthy?
Were you overweight?
Insulin or leptin resistant?
Systemic inflammation? Injury?
Are these simply anecdotal or empirically tested?
Do you suffer from a genetic disorder(s)?
How old are you?
What sex are you?
What is your ancestral heritage?
What did you grow up eating?
Were you bottle-fed or breast-fed?
etc etc to name just a few important factors.

All of these things will inform an individual as to how & why they should eat. But right now we do NOT have a plug-and-play-one-size-fits-all formula and therefore are stuck experimenting, but we do have a sign-post pointing us down the right path.

C'est la vie.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on August 04, 2011
at 10:11 AM

@baconbitch -- your phrasing, like Thomas' is clumsy -- but this topic should be explored. Too bad it is being so by you/Thomas. That said, I am curious as to what worked for and what didn't work for you --- and why you think that?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:48 PM

I came out of PH retirement for this! Totally agree TMS. Eating a basic "clean" diet with individual experimentation is NOT paleo. Jeezus - did paleo man hack is gut flora? Hell no. Did paleo man eat sh*t that caused disease, death, and discomfort. I'm pretty sure he did. Yup, they experimented but there is NO way they ate perfectly. They ate what they could find and sometimes it was surely less than optimal. This is why I, and many others, cringe at the word paleo. I'm calling my bullshit on what I thought was a good diet.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 03:49 PM

continued...I just finished lunch - a home cooked Indian meal of white rice and traditionally prepared Lentils and do not feel in the least bit that I've "cheated". Clearly the semantic arguments about "what is Paleo" is a never ending debate and an utter fucking waste of time. Thanks for providing the clarification :-)

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on August 04, 2011
at 12:56 AM

But clean eating is an easier concept to redefine than Paleo.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 04, 2011
at 02:48 AM

Fine, I'll throw a tomato at Uncle Loren at the symposium.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on August 04, 2011
at 05:09 AM

@Patrik: Your answer is excellent and I am very much in your corner. But you really *do* need to work on getting your cortisol level down....

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:50 PM

I'm woman enough to admit I was wrong about Paleo. It provided a good foundation but after more and more research I have decided it is not optimal. In fact, I think it could be harmful. Since leaving Paleo I actually feel better, I've lost a couple of pounds and I'm not stressing over every minute detail about my food.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

See? It's the damn semantics! If we stripped the word "paleo" from our language in the context of nutrition we'd find more common ground. Now you're making me crave some curry :) I may just have some chick peas too! But I still get shit from "paleos" about my oats and lentils. Fuck it. It works for me.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on August 04, 2011
at 10:08 AM

@mem -- uhm, thanks

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 03:48 PM

@BB - I have always maintained (and posted repeatedly here on PH) that my definition of Paleo is as per the Archevore prime directive to avoid the 3 horsemen NADs - 1) Avoid gluten, 2) Avoid excess O-6, 3) Avoid excess fructose. Everything else (dairy, macronutrients, etc) is in the weeds to me. So when I read your modifications, I do not see a contradiction.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on August 03, 2011
at 09:05 PM

Wait .... What's the point of the word paleo. It seems to be an obtuse way of saying 'evolution' is important.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on August 04, 2011
at 10:09 AM

@Thomas --- you are incorrect, but are able to craft strawmen very well. What I describe as Paleo is radically different than what you describe.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:33 PM

You're the clumsy one Patrik. You keep clinging to this notion of Paleo, when it's almost meaningless. Paleo had become "throw out the junk and do what best works for you". Ok, that's fine, but people have been saying that for a long time before Paleo. Vegans say that, vegetarians say that. Oh yeah, and then for good measure-so you can claim to be "Paleo"-try to justify it on some evolutionary grounds, sight some studies that you've probably never even read, except for the extract and then claim that you've taken the scientific high ground. That's what Paleo is.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 04, 2011
at 12:18 AM

Also, what I presumed to be a "clean" diet before learning about paleo was full of whole wheat and vegetable oil, with as little saturated fat as possible. The only reason I reconsidered the science on fats was because of being introduced to paleo. So the starting point is quite different for a regular nutrition enthusiast and a nutrition enthusiast who has read a lot of paleo stuff.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 03:05 PM

@BB - perhaps you have already covered this elsewhere - what are the changes you've made that encapsulate "leaving Paleo"? Thanks

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:24 PM

Its not the food necessarily it is what @Mer said above. I can't replicate paleo man because that would be impossible. Specifically though I brought back oatmeal and lentils. I decreased my meat consumption and decreased my fat. I'm back to eating the way I did a couple of years ago. I was NEVER a SAD eater. Nothing I eat comes from packages except the oats and lentils. I have always shopped at farmer's markets, I get my fish a local fish monger, I get my meat from the farm down the street. To me, that isn't "Paleo" it is eating clean.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 04, 2011
at 12:01 AM

baconbitch-- We all sort of agree that "paleo" means different things to different people. Some people are more into the semantics than others. But we all got here because we started thinking about if our diets were good for us. Who knows what our ancestors specifically ate, or how much we've adapted. But like Aravind says, some things are bad, and no one is going to go back to high vegetable oil and gluten diets. I've also been eating less meat and more starch and seeing how things go. Overall, I find thinking about how my ancestors ate to simply be a good starting point.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 04, 2011
at 05:04 PM

Thank you Patrik for deleting Thomas Seay. You showed him. Looks like you might have to sweep the house even more!

14
Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:02 PM

The general attitudes and beliefs of the participants in the paleo movement constantly change anyway. If we are defining paleo by what Cordain said 10 years ago, or those guys who were before him, then we would already call paleo dead. But no, it just changes, and depending upon the individual. All the paleolithic diet is, is exclusion of certain foods, and depending on who you ask it is inclusion of certain foods. That's all. Processed crap is obviously bad, and vegetables and fruits are obviously better than grains and beans. Paleo win.

Dairy is kind of ambiguous. It depends on your method. Dr. Harris' method allows for dairy, but some don't. They're all paleo.

Addendum from comments section:

I want to call it Evolutionary Nutrition. The practice of looking at what we are bestadapted to eat. Diets of hunter-gatherer ancestors and even agrarian ancestors can serve as hypotheses to what natural selection might have produced The problem is some people think that they know exactly what kinds of macronutrient ratios are best simply by looking at "what grok ate", which is absurd. We have been have able to discern which foods tend to be more problematic than others, but as for macronutrients and degrees of different kinds of foods, we actually have to use empirical evidence.

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:04 PM

+1 for sayin it betta

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:23 PM

I want to call it Evolutionary Nutrition. The practice of looking at what we are bestadapted to eat. Diets of hunter-gatherer ancestors and even agrarian ancestors can serve as hypotheses to what natural selection might have produced The problem is some people think that they know exactly what kinds of macronutrient ratios are best simply by looking at "what grok ate", which is absurd. We have been have to discern which foods tend to be more problematic than others, but as for macronutrients and degrees of different kinds of foods, we actuallt have to use empirical evidence. That's the method.

Acc38052c1efe7fc4338dc55f2428bfe

(242)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:06 PM

Agreed. Obsession over labels or generalizing strictly dialed in approaches seem to be silly reasons to call "paleo" a bust. Unless one comes to believe including large amounts oils, sugar and/or grain in ones diet is healthy, I think the framework will remain relevant.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:24 PM

I want to call it Evolutionary Nutrition. The practice of looking at what we are bestadapted to eat. Diets of hunter-gatherer ancestors and even agrarian ancestors can serve as hypotheses to what natural selection might have produced The problem is some people think that they know exactly what kinds of macronutrient ratios are best simply by looking at "what grok ate", which is absurd. We have been have able to discern which foods tend to be more problematic than others, but as for macronutrients and degrees of different kinds of foods, we actually have to use empirical evidence.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:11 PM

<> Ok, look, I don't give a rat's butt about all this talk of Evolution, which seems to be a cornerstone of Paleo. It sounds good, but as posited, has not worked out. I have been doing well eating MUCH less meat. I basically eat animal flesh once a day, and that *SEEMS* to be working better for me. I am eating LOTS of fruit and lots of dairy. So, yes, if Paleo is defined as "a diet in which you find what works for you, then that opens it up to just about anything."

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:25 PM

A community for evolutionary nutrition, that's what I want. I don't want THE PALEO DIET.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 01:02 PM

So sorry MR Raccoon. I feel yet another Crying Game moment like when I first realized Kamal was a dude. Then again, man loving is totally Paleo so it's cool. Gender notwithstanding, I always enjoy your commentary here on PH. Are you going to be at AHS?

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:36 PM

Absolutely! Paleo is an approach to thinking about food and finding out what works for you. It's not a set macronutrient ratio. It's not Cordain or Whole30 or Primal or PaNu or PHD (but if any of those work for you - fantastic!). It's not ketogenic, low carb, high carb, cyclic carb, probiotic or anti-rice/anti-dairy/anti-potatoes. Those are simply tools to be used for certain situations. Paleo is experimenting to see what works and to remain curious (and skeptical and scientific). If you've hit a wall with paleo, it's due to a limited view of it. Or, you just want to have pizza and beer.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on August 03, 2011
at 06:11 AM

Oh Stabby, I just think the internet forum world of you. BTW I thought for a second that your knife wielding raccoon was the same raccoon in Seattle's "Stranger" seen here: http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Shop (I am moving there in about 2 weeks so i was checking it out), but they are different, almost as if your raccoon were his evil cousin....dot dot dot

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:48 PM

Its not a one hit wonder and in health terms is really not that different from health professions. For the most part you agree upon a base (evolutionary nutrition, genetic expression of good health through lifestyle changes, wheat bad, sugar bad, whole foods good)...then you have your factions that disagree on what in the end seem to be minor points of contention based more on personal preference and character than hard science. It allows for some maneuvering for the individual while giving a good starting point for all...end rant i guess.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:23 PM

As you know I started another similar (but not identical thread) called "What is the Paleolithic Diet?". It seems that the boundaries of what Paleo is get hazier and hazier. Whenever someone raises an issue that Paleo might have limitations, the response depicts Paleo in protean terms: it becomes "whatever works is Paleo". Kamal said elsewhere that Paleo is scientific. That's not true. How can you test (to prove or refute) something that has almost no strictly definable features.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on August 02, 2011
at 11:46 PM

yes stabby, yes!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:11 PM

@Aravind - I felt the same when I realized Kamal was a dude. But I love him anyway :) @Stabby - your succint comment just TOTALLY summed it all up. Man - you got some loving from the Bacon Bitch. We've been saying great things about you "elsewhere". Some of us miss the Raccoon.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 04:41 AM

Nice post and comments Ms Raccoon!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 04, 2011
at 02:24 AM

Hold on baconbitch, have you been saying things about Stabby in "St. Elsewhere"? Is paleohacks just an imagined snow-globe world of an autistic child? Was this too esoteric to even type?

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 03, 2011
at 05:26 AM

I'm actually a guy raccoon. Last time I didn't want to say anything, but now I'm telling you. An understandable mistake considering I was calling guys hot, I was calling guys and gals hot, actually. Sometimes I think that I sound like a middle-aged lady as well. That's not intentional but I would have to consciously try not to. Anyway, thanks for comment.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 04, 2011
at 04:19 PM

@Kamal - Yes, its like little Jacky Paper. Let's see if you get that reference :)

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 04, 2011
at 04:07 AM

Tar: many raccoons wiled knives, that's not me. I like his style, though. Aravind: Nope, not going to AHS. Maybe next time. I do have plenty of paleo buddies there, but no money for plane tickets and ticket tickets. Baconbitch: I'm still part of that world. It just doesn't gratify me like the paleohacks rep system does. I yelled at like 3 people there yesterday. Kamal: this is actually an imagined snow-globe world of an autistic kid who exists in an imagined snowglobe world of an austistic kid, who is in an imagined snowglobe world of an autistic kid, named Kamal. Dun dun dun...

8
A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

on August 02, 2011
at 05:53 PM

transitional to what? back to grains, heavier on omega sixes, more processed junk?

I see it as the endpoint, but certainly not a static endpoint.

65430e39d7e9e9322718d016fe668051

(2944)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:16 PM

I hate the term "paleo". I prefer "primal" or "evolutionary health" but even those don't float my boat too well.

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:02 PM

ok, I thought a big part of paleo already was finding what works for oneself, but perhaps one can stop calling it paleo at some point to keep out of etymology controversies

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:06 PM

Danielle, what does float your boat? :)

23cdea3bba94e17d2b58b525773d0c0a

(729)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:59 PM

I think he means transition FROM SAD and onto a path of finding what works for you.

7
D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 11:51 PM

Although opinions are like a**holes, I feel the stench has not reached the tipping point. So allow me to join the festivities

Henceforth when someone ask me how I eat, I will call it an Ancestral Diet. Note I hate the word "diet" but it is not worth arguing about the semantics. Why Ancestral?

  • Doesn't matter if you are Big Banger, Theist, or believed the Aliens spread their seed here. Everyone can agree we have ancestors irrespective of the world being 3000 years old or 15 billion. This spares us the agony and amusement of Creationist vs Darwinist arguments.
  • The implementation of Ancestral Nutrition may vary much like the variety of each our ancestral heritage. For some this means what your grandparents ate...or perhaps more importantly what they DID NOT eat
  • For other people this might mean going back 10,000 years subject to personal preference, extent of metabolic derangement requiring correction, and perhaps epigenetic considerations
  • The primary focus is one of toxin elimination. What is toxic to me, might not be to you and vice versa. However there currently appears to be evidence that gluten, excess omega 6 and excess fructose might be toxic to all of us and at minimum can be agreed as being unessential in ones diet, hence likely candidates for elimination
  • It is a heuristic approach and by definition is continually evolving
  • It is based on the scientific method. This means any and ALL tenets are subject to the possibility of being falsified. While faith (in the secular sense) might influence certain aspects of its implementation and serve as basis for hypothesis development, it MUST remain scientific

Ok, now I cannot stand my own stench anymore so I will stop for now. Seacrest out...


EDIT for additional stench - Ok, I've decided more importantly than what Paleo is/isn't, I will focus on what SAD is and how it undermines your health. I will leave it to lyrics from a band I hang out with sometimes - italics my emphasis

End of passion play. crumbling away. I'm your source of self-destruction. Veins that pump with fear, Sucking darkest clear. Leading on your death's construction. Taste me you will see. More is all you need. Dedicated to how I'm killing you!!!...

Needlework the way, never you betray. Life of death becoming clearer. Pain monopoly, ritual misery. Chop your breakfast on a mirror. Taste me you will see. More is all you need. Dedicated to how I'm killing you!!!

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on August 04, 2011
at 05:31 AM

+1 for Seacrest

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 04, 2011
at 09:33 PM

I don't see what is pretentious about it but reasonable people can disagree. The terms Paleo and Evolution are just asking for contention and debate, and I think Ancestral is relatively benign...like ANCESTRAL Health Symposium. The other term I thought of is the Toxicologist's Diet. Some toxins are dose dependent. Some are toxic at any level.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on August 04, 2011
at 01:01 PM

+1 for a beautiful answer

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 04, 2011
at 01:14 PM

@CW and AC - Thanks!

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on August 04, 2011
at 07:12 PM

Though the concept framework is clearer, the term ancestral diet sounds pretentious. Theologian Carl Bart said, "read the Bible in one hand, and the newspaper in the other." Similarly with nutrition "read the medical journals in one hand and a history book in the other."

7
E639bc85fd42430285596434a6515ad5

(2226)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:51 AM

The Paleolithic diet is merely the latest fad. That's why I'm converting to the time-tested Pliocene diet.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 04:35 PM

I just snarfed some dairy out of my nose whilst making my lentil soup :)

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 03:33 AM

Awesome! I will see you and raise you with the Big Bang Diet. Checkmate!

B1859f696e88d25460a6b8a333412ea3

(837)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:45 AM

Thai on Monday nights?

6
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 03, 2011
at 12:58 PM

How could one hit a wall by merely not eating grains, legumes, and dairy? There are plenty of options on the planet to sustain oneself without those is there not? More to the point, I can???t see how maintaining a way of eating that is full of good meat, fat, starch, vegetables and fruits could not be healthfully sustained. I???m honestly interested how you perhaps think that it can???t be.

Not to get too caught up in titles and words but I do think most ???diets??? are indeed not sustainable because they are diets; in other words they are designed to deprive the presumed overweight body with less fuel. What we generally talk of here on these boards as ???paleo??? though is merely food choice is it not? Isn???t it simply avoiding those three things and eating well of all the myriad of other edible items? Intrinsically and fundamentally wholly different from what is usually sited as a ???diet.??? One can use these food choices for whatever their goals are: weight-loss, weight-gain, longevity, whatever they want.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 03, 2011
at 07:56 PM

I guess it just depends on how you got introduced to it. I got it from cordain with his first book and then with the athlete version, then Wolf. It all seemed much simpler than this thread makes it out to be. Don't eat deleterious things with these being defined as grains legumes and dairy. The name paleo is lame but what does it matter? In order to talk about anything, a way of eating included, you need a label and parameters. It's just convenient, I'm certainly not married to it. Call it the anti inflammatory diet.But to say that excluding those things is not sustainable is silly

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:58 PM

I agree, Ben but I think some of us are taking issue with the premise of Paleo. The name is irksome and to me, misleading. If paleo is just taking out 3 things then how the heck can we call it paleo? In fact, I just brought lentils back into my diet along with rice and oatmeal. My mood is improving and I've lost some fluff around the mid-section. Also, there is NO way any of us can really eat like a paleo man. It is impossible. I'm not saying eating clean is impossible but that eating exactly like paleolithic man is not happening because we evolved and need to continue to evolve.

6
0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on August 02, 2011
at 11:08 PM

Just a few very basic thoughts.

If the Paleo diet is comprised of foods that we are best adapted to eat, then isn't that a bit backwards? Wouldn't we all be better off eating foods that optimize our ability to adapt to contemporary demands?

Let us not overlook the fact that adaptation can be both positive and negative.

People like Robb Wolf and Art DeVany fashioned a "Paleo" diet to deal with illnesses like diabetes and celiac disease. I think the value of what they discovered about changing their diets is not in the "Paleoness" of it. Rather it is in discovering which processed SAD foods were causing maladaptation - things like PUFA, gluten, even legumes. There are other "health gurus" who are not "Paleo" who march to this same beat. What Paleo showed me is that there are some foods which do little help and even cause some harm for someone trying to live well in the modern world. What it did not do for me was provide foods that optimize my adaptation to modern living.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:00 PM

I'm unsure why @Patrik is so defensive. Big turn off and why I'm weaning myself from PH. @LuckyBastard disagrees in a very thoughtful and intelligent way. @Patrik, I'd take a lesson from him and every person on this thread who disagrees with courtesy and logic. Just sayin.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:08 PM

@bb thanks and very nice blog btw.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on August 02, 2011
at 11:27 PM

@Aravind - I never pictured you to be so pale - almost pure white. With whiskers too! :)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 04, 2011
at 02:19 AM

Let's all be friends. No matter how much we disagree about definitions and stuff, we (I think) can agree that a breakfast of Kashi cereal with skim milk and whole wheat toast probably isn't as healthy as most people think. And as long as we can agree about Kashi, we will remain Good Friends. In fact, that's what paleo really is--uncovering the truth about Kashi cereal. All those other definitions are bunk.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:25 PM

Maybe I shouldn't speak for Meredith, but I think what she means is that our situation is different than that of Paleolithic man. We live in a polluted, stress-filled environment, and so maybe our diet needs to take that into account.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:39 PM

@thomas well, if the paleo diet is stressing "clean", whole food then it should be acting to counteract living in a polluted environment, right? and the diet isn't the only thing that many paleos preach about. robb wolf talks about adequate sleep, kresser, guyenet and harris have all touched on meditation. so thomas, i'm not really getting how the approach that this community takes isn't conducive to living in modern times. what kind of diet/lifestyle would be more conducive to "living well in the modern world". individual tweaking needs to be done but removing the toxins is a huge first step.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 04:50 PM

Ah - I missed the "excess". Sorry buddy. I don't associate fructose with anything but fruit. I'll be damned if I'm putting HFCS in my body. Peaches this year are da bomb! I'm grilling some with butter and cinnamon this weekend!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 11:32 PM

The Goddess has spoken and (as is usual) spoken well!!!!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 06:47 PM

So, why not see Paleo as a possible transitional diet and not get weighted down by all of this pseudo-scientific talk about it being based on evolution?! Evolution has become the new replacement for the Bible. In other words, rather than develop a diet based upon your own environment and bioindividualism, we look for some paragon from the Paleolithic age. Of course, if you say, no, it's just about getting rid of crap (whatever that means) from your diet, then the term Paleo becomes meaningless. It's an obvious reference to eating according to evolutionary mandates.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:45 PM

Very well said @Mer!!! Yes, yes, and yes on all account. It is NOT about what people ate a bajillion years ago, it is how we eat to adapt to our modern world TODAY. I wish I could +5 you :) @Luckybastard - I don't think TMS would disagree. He's saying the pollution is another factor we need to analyze that doesn't fit into the paleo man's world.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 02, 2011
at 11:17 PM

Welcome back Princess!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:29 PM

@LB Agreed. TMS needs to develop that thought out better. TMS, you there - please clarify??? The one point with which I disagree with you is the fructose. I do better with more fruit. I took it out for months and now bringing it back with great results. No, I won't overdo it but some fruit everyday keeps the scurvy away:) Plus its summer and I love me some berries in heavy cream!

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 04, 2011
at 04:13 AM

omg this is getting weird but it's pretty cool anyways.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 04, 2011
at 05:07 PM

May Patrik delete your account. What he did to Thomas Seay, he can do to you!

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:06 PM

@bb what i'm a bit confused about is the fact that there's pretty much a consensus after getting the excess fructose, glucose and industrial seed oils out of your diet that there's individual tweaking that needs to be done. those 3 things alone get rid of alot of internal pollution- the type that we have a lot more control over. shooting darts at the diet- or what he thinks the diet is- is a misguided exercise, i believe. if he's worried about pollutants, he can start focusing on not consuming food from bpa containing containers to start.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 04:55 PM

that sounds pretty good. my mouth just started watering.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on August 03, 2011
at 04:18 AM

Meredith writes: "If the Paleo diet is comprised of foods that we are best adapted to eat, then isn't that a bit backwards? Wouldn't we all be better off eating foods that optimize our ability to adapt to contemporary demands?" -- sounds cute & all, but what does this even mean?

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on August 04, 2011
at 12:59 PM

I think that now that we have all agreed on the basics, we want to fight over the style details. Basics: gluten, chemically processed oils, and super fake foods are evil... And the sun is hot to the touch. ,,, holy beef, I just tried to summarize all the diddly details we fight over, and there is no way I fouls fit it into this box.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:45 PM

@Luckybastard - sidenote: Daaaaaang. Hot picture!!! Whoa.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on August 04, 2011
at 02:49 AM

@ Kamal - I want to sprinkle YOU on my Kashi! Okay, I don't eat Kashi. I want to peel you, chop you and put you in my cottage cheese! :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 06:38 PM

What part do I need to elaborate? Sure I can meditate, etc. etc. However, there might be dietary changes that need to be made. Paleo is a good starting place. For some, it might be a final place, however, like any paradigm, what was at one time useful could blind you. Despite the protean nature LB and others want to attribute to Paleo, there are still a number of assumptions (which as soon as I mention them, somebody will say is not essentially paleo) such as heavy meat eating which doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Believe it or not, LB I am not just throwing darts at Paleo.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 04, 2011
at 04:13 AM

omg this getting weird but it's pretty cool anyways.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 06:50 PM

in my original comment, i was bemoaning the fact that paleo means so many things to different people that the word is close to being rendered obsolete. i've stated many times on here what it means for me. i choose to concentrate on the fact that there certainly items that were definitely NOT in their diets(or in their diets at the level they're in ours) that there is a good amount of evidence that they're causing problems in ours. that's where i've been for a good while now. that's where many of the people on this board are. i think that's where the exasperation comes from.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 05:08 PM

@LB - grill almost any fruit on a kebab stick drowned in butter and you will love me for it!

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:06 PM

and to deal with stress he can get a full 8 hours or maybe start some kind of meditation. i just dont see how "we live in a polluted, stress-filled environment" leads to the conclusion that this diet won't help that or at least negate alot of the effects.

Medium avatar

(5639)

on August 03, 2011
at 06:51 PM

@LuckyBastard I think you should take a look at my fracking thread.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on August 03, 2011
at 03:33 PM

@bb i say excess fructose because i do much better on fruit too. omg, the strawberries and peaches i am getting this summer are so aweome. i have been eating 3 peaches a day and when i want to change up, i do a pound of strawberries. when i say fructose, i'm talking about the excess that comes from excessive amounts of sugar and hfcs from processed junk. they'll have to pry my peaches from my cold dead hands!!!

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on August 04, 2011
at 10:15 AM

Baconbitch writes: "Big turn off and why I'm weaning myself from PH." --- you have been invited to leave before, yet it is you that returns. Feel free to leave permanently anytime.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 04, 2011
at 03:09 AM

Meredith-- I want to process you into marshmallow fluff and pour too much of you onto the brownie sundae I made out of Aravind.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Not sure how I got thrown into the ménage à trois of toxic foods, but I'm not into a sausage fest. So hit the road Kamalinator

4
A45af235ed4dd0b4f548c59e91b75763

(1936)

on August 04, 2011
at 12:44 PM

OMFG this question has a lot of great answers.. I shouldn't even be posting to it as I haven't got much to add.. But as you can tell I was unable to resist.

Paleo isn't like a one hit wonder, it is like Classical Music. It has been around forever, comes in many forms, can be simple or complex and you almost never hear it on the radio. Just like classical music, Paleo means many things to many people. It can be as simple as a violin solo (no grains, no beans), or as complex as a full orchestra (lacto paleo, avoiding nightshades, no almonds, sweet potatoes, but never white, and on and on).

Paleo, just like Classical Music, isn???t going to go away, because it has been around forever. That is the funny part, it isn???t a fad, just the name Paleo is new (iiiirrronnyyyyy). It used to just be called ???eating stuff that moves slow enough to get caught and won???t kill you???.

Eat slow, walk fast.. stop over thinking it! Thinking so much is NOT Paleo.. ;)

4
B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

on August 02, 2011
at 05:50 PM

If we were to compare Paleo to the recorded history of music, it would be easy for me to see that we are the modern artists, and we are experimenting with themes from prehistoric and ancient music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_music

We're not sure of exactly what it sounded like way back when, but we know we like it when we hear it in our bones and in our souls.

2
Bcad307b240275ae3f5820ba6eb4a712

(923)

on August 03, 2011
at 08:57 PM

Paleo will always be a good starting place for most people. If anything, the culture of the paleo-blogosphere gets people thinking about their bodies in a way that makes one feel like they can take more control of their health while questioning the conventional wisdom. It doesn't really matter if Paleo = Art Devaney or Perfect Health Diet, its still a good path to start down. I don't think that makes it "best" viewed as a transitional diet anymore than viewing it as ZOMG THE GREATEST THING THAT HAS HAPPENED TO ME SINCE PHIL COLLINS WENT SOLO!!!-makes any sense.

I really don't see the point of the hand-wringing dietary existential crises that plague paleo. And I also don't see how "Some people hit a wall" translates into "I wonder if its not sustainable?". Clearly, its not sustainable for those that hit a wall. To suggest otherwise is to paint with the same collective brush that's being criticized.

One-sized-fits-all diets are like collectivist politics: they break down when applied to reality where individuals live individual lives. Nutrigenomics will blow wide open the door that Paleo cracked.

So, the answer is both. Paleo is and isn't a transitional diet. Mostly, its a way of thinking about the human body.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 03, 2011
at 09:00 PM

Oh, how I love this answer. Yes, it's a way to think about the human body -- perfect.

2
D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on August 03, 2011
at 04:50 PM

The problem is that Paleo is that it has come to function poorly as a woord. It's one of those words that has come to have 3 or 4 different definitions that are the commonly used interchangeably. The concepts of paleo are solid enough. Avoid some foods that are pretty non-nutritious and will cause problems if you have gut issues. They are a little stringent at times but then someone just yells out "80/20 rule." THe problem is that you say Paleo and people can't wrap there minds behind what it mean. Reenactment? Eating a diet that's personalized to your food sensitivities? Avoiding foods that evolutionary haven't had the metabolism to eat? Then there's the people who's mind first go to the Geico commercials and the next thing you know I have R??yksopp songs stuck in my head (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H02iwWCrXew). Paleo is a filled descriptor. We all have ideas about what it means. That leaves us constantly fighting a battle to define and arguing about who got their anthropology wrong and who got it right. Because of the need to constantly define the diet in order to combat people's definitions that are different, the conversation about paleo get's frustrating and repetitive. And at the end of the day, it just makes me want to talk about fracking.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 08:20 PM

+1. "Paleo" is different than if the name had been "The XYZ" diet, something abstract. The word implies looking backward (to the Paleolithic period) for some ideal diet. It becomes more apparent to me that that is a futile effort. Instead we need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that the answer lies in the past. To the extent that Paleo helps people break free of unhealthy foods, it is good. To the extent that it fixes our gaze on the past or on a fixed idea of diet that limits our ability to experiment with foods or other food approaches that might be even healthier for us, it is bad

2
66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on August 03, 2011
at 02:24 PM

Paleo is just a convenient label, us humans love to label things so we can understand things easier. 'Paleo' is not a diet, religion or cult, it is a natural way of live based on how we evolved and as such we cannot 'hit a wall' with it, ridiculous. The only rules to paleo are the rules that govern Life. Since it is influenced by our evolution it is integral to evolution as well, so it constantly changes as the human species does. If a group of us were transported back in time say 15,000-40-000 years ago we would recognize food and eat it without issue, the paleo mindset would allow an easy tradition to life at that time. Take a group of people that base their food on some contrived 'diet' and plop them back 40,000 years ago and they would surely die out as they tried in vain to locate their prepackaged, predigested cup of chemicals meals.

2
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on August 02, 2011
at 08:49 PM

My definition of the "homo sapiens" diet is meat, fruit, veggies and an occasional frozen custard splurge ('specially when it's 110 degrees.)

2
E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:29 PM

It depends what your definition of paleo is. You can tailor the paleo diet to basically any macronutrient and make just about any food using paleo ingredients so I don't get how it's a transitional diet.

With that said I think the basic paleo paradigm of no dairy, grains or legumes will eventually die out when people realize paleo people probably ate all these foods. Instead people will focus on whole foods and avoid foods that are nutrient devoid and toxic. The problem is that I don't think people will ever agree on the foods that are truly toxic.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on August 04, 2011
at 12:42 AM

My thoughts exactly.

1
742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on August 04, 2011
at 12:29 AM

Paleo for me was a transitional diet. I have never had weight issues but many of my anxiety and digestive symptoms were alleviated with a strict paleo diet. On the other hand, it completely destroyed my athletic performance, thyroid and libido. But one of the major reasons the paleo diet has been good to me has been the vast knowledge I have gained of macronutrients, micronutrients, antioxidants, food interactions, good fats, bad fats, antinutrients, lectins,etc. which have helped me construct a diet that works for me.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on August 04, 2011
at 01:43 AM

I went VLC to solve some gut issues and then slowly increased the carbs. Now the majority of my calories come from carbs and I occasionally eat beans and lentils with no problems. Too many this is still considered Paleo, but Paleo is such a broad term

7fe08b47d7d073a906802a4170ae24bf

(350)

on August 04, 2011
at 01:15 AM

WOW! What variation of paleo where you doing? I had problems at first with athletic performance and libido when I was doing VLC paleo. Once I upped the carbs it immediately solved the problem and now feel fantastic! :)

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on August 04, 2011
at 01:42 AM

I want VLC to solve some gut issues and then slowly increased the carbs. Now the majority of my carbs come from carbs and I occasionally eat beans and lentils with no problems. Too many this is still considered Paleo, but Paleo is such a broad term.

1
B9cc28905ec54389c47cde031d709703

on August 03, 2011
at 10:52 AM

I think what "paleo" brought to the table was "eliminate the crap from your diet concept". While the concept is not new I think what happened that made it "catch" was that it happened at the right time. Just like the printing press. Moveable type had been invented way before the times of Gutenberg. But it didn't catch because there wasn't a demand for distributed information.

The "paleo" paradigm has changed much like the printing press was the foundation for new things like newspapers, magazines, and eventually technology like the Internet. "Paleo" has evolved as well into different flavors as we learn more. It has been interesting watching the idea of paleo evolve to fit our needs.

Paleo has evoked curiosity, and with that comes exploration, with that exploration comes inquery into the science and anecdotal evidence of why paleo works. Perhaps one day we'll understand why it works for some people and why it doesn't work for others.

But I think more importantly "paleo" is doing what the printing press did, it's empowering people to take things into their own hands and in that sense I don't think it's a one-hit-wonder. It's freedom at it's core. And that's what it means to me. Paleo is about embracing a way of thinking that empowers you to make your own choices, it's much more than a diet because the philosophy extends beyond diet into everyday living. Think about how people change their lives when they go "paleo". Not only do they change their diet, but they get active, become involved in the "community", etc. and begin questioning other things in their lives. These are all things that arguably make humans "happy". As I've expressed in one form or another in different answers... evolution always finds a way to ensure we get back to surviving and having healthy babies even if at this point we don't understand exactly how these things work. Sometimes the species gets distracted but as a whole I think a wide spread desire allows things like "paleo" to catch on and hook.

The only time paleo becomes a one-hit-wonder is when people become entrenched, insisting there is one dietary cure all for improved health, etc. I'm sure that will always exist in some form, we can't evolve unless there is some variability.

1
3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 02, 2011
at 08:05 PM

Well, based on the logic AND science I believe it to truly be the very best way to genetically express your optimal health. Basically I have seen no other better argument for a different way. It leaves enough wiggle room in terms of fruit, starch, 80/20 vs 100, and so forth to account for most minor biochemical individuality issues and even diseased states, while laying the groundwork for the masses. Hey anything is better than SAD, but this is the best IMHO.

1
26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

on August 02, 2011
at 07:39 PM

Not for me. I didn't start for weight loss (no weight to lose) and I haven't committed to this lifestyle in order to look better.

However my definition of a healthy, "paleo" diet may well be individual, and it's certainly changed since I began this journey.

0
2f54dbe892ec89b12d1db686568e885a

(919)

on August 04, 2011
at 02:22 PM

Too much thinking is clearly getting in the way of what is otherwise a natural and healthy lifestyle. The problem appears to be, that once you have got to the state where your metabolism is no longer deranged (weight loss, improved fitness, whatever you were previously concerned about), where do you go from there.

I have a long way to go on this journey and so I am encouraged by reading the success stories of others. When I join the ranks of the successful, what do I do then ? As the old saying goes ‘If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ perhaps.

0
Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:14 PM

Well at least they had the one hit. I remember listening to the sad remains of It's A Beautiful Day playing their one hit White Bird in a bar. I've spent a lot of time at wolfgangsvault listening to Grateful Dead concerts from the Live/Dead period. There was a band that went on and on playing their dance music with no legitimate hits at all. They were, and still are, a persistent force which the one-hitters never were.

I see paleo in the same way. Lifestyle before diet, because diet is forever in flux. The concept of hunting for food (Hungry - Move - Eat, in that order) has longevity, for me anyway.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:31 PM

If I had never seen Grateful Dead live, I would not be a Grateful Dead fan.. What do you mean Lifestyle before diet?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:57 PM

Emulating the behavior Thomas. The diet is uncertain, but the lifestyle isn't. We've lost the connection between hunger and physical exertion to find food.

32123f4f25bdf6a7b70c9c2a719386ed

(396)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:25 PM

I love "Its a Beautiful Day" the White Bird album is good one for the most part. White Bird of course is the best song on the album though.

0
23cdea3bba94e17d2b58b525773d0c0a

(729)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:58 PM

I think this is an excellent question and I think I agree.... Ultimately, you've got to do what feels good and right, and that will be different from one person to the next.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!