13

votes

Is anyone else tired?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 16, 2012 at 12:13 AM

Dairy is evil because of casein. Potatoes are bad because of Saponin. Yams are bad because of Oxolates Veggies may only positively effect us via hormesis Grains are bad because of gluten, lechtins, phytates Fruit are fructose to the point of toxic Nuts are too high in phytates and Omega-6 More than 20% of diet from protein is not ideal for human health white rice is a clean carb with no nutritive value beside fuel

Does anyone else ever get sick of this? Or frustrated? I really get, in my heart of hearts the whole orthorexic idea. I used to really love food...of course I was fat...but now it's just a chore.

Paleo was nice because it had a logical frame work. Did our ancestors eat this? Yes. Ok enjoy. Now...VLC, LC, Paleo-vegan, Paleo+starch, Paleo+dairy etc...

It gives me a headache.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 19, 2012
at 01:24 PM

Maybe "non-issue" is not precise. Perhaps it's just not nearly as big of a problem as we thought. I would avoid brown rice because of the hard fiber, but maybe that's just my excuse, since I prefer the white. Rice is just not all that nutritious compared to say, meat/eggs/fish/kale/blueberries/nuts, so I don't eat a lot of it anyways. Mostly as part of sushi or when my wife makes a curry dish. I'd much rather eat a potato - I like it better and it's got some pretty good stufz in it. Man, life is too short to eat things that you hate eating!

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on March 16, 2012
at 09:02 PM

Are phytates really a non-issue now? I am craving brown rice, and I am really starting to hate white rice.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on March 16, 2012
at 01:58 PM

Gluten intolerance may not be "easily" fixed by not eating gluten ... at least if intolerance is anything like celiacs: http://scdlifestyle.com/2012/03/the-gluten-free-lie-why-most-celiacs-are-slowly-dying/

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on March 16, 2012
at 01:57 PM

Gluten intolerance may not be "easily" fixed by not eating gluten ... at least if it's intolerance is like celiacs: http://scdlifestyle.com/2012/03/the-gluten-free-lie-why-most-celiacs-are-slowly-dying/

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on March 16, 2012
at 12:13 PM

those wouldn't qualify as cheats in my book b/c there's nothing inherently unhealthy about them, really. Maybe you're too strict with yourself?

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on March 16, 2012
at 12:12 PM

Ray Peat did the same for me. Everything I thought I knew was suddenly wrong. Omega 3? evil. Sugar? Good. At that point, I threw in the towel and decided to stop thinking about it so much and just eat whole minimally processed food. Seems to be working ok.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on March 16, 2012
at 04:27 AM

For me, whole eggs are way worse for my gut than whole wheat.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on March 16, 2012
at 04:24 AM

I was speaking of the etiology of the condition. Once you have those antibodies, you probably have to avoid it.

D5d982a898721d3392c85f951d0bf0aa

(2417)

on March 16, 2012
at 04:02 AM

Respectfully, gluten intolerance is still under diagnosed and easily fixed - by not eating gluten. Whether or not D is an underlying contributor, I think it's a little dangerous to promote the idea that D will let gluten intolerant folks eat gluten. I still think there is celiac/gluten intolerant and the slew of people who can eat it but probably shouldn't. For that first group, eating gluten is a ticket to increased cancer risks. Nothing to minimize as a dietary tweak.

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on March 16, 2012
at 03:40 AM

I think you're right, although I disagree about gluten (if only it was that easy that vitamin D3 was the answer!) I think the take-home message of all the different problems with so many foods is that you should be aware of the possibility that a food could give you problems. The do some n=1 experiments. If it gives you problems, don't eat it. If it's okay (and healthy) then eat it. It's really as simple as that.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 16, 2012
at 02:52 AM

I've been Paleo for over a year and my "cheats" amount to Sushi and dark chocolate. I've had Pizza 1x in 3 years.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 16, 2012
at 02:50 AM

I second that....

Fe87afa634afe26f4f6fd956abe0b46a

(565)

on March 16, 2012
at 02:36 AM

Thank you... This post just pulled me out of a funk.

Fe87afa634afe26f4f6fd956abe0b46a

(565)

on March 16, 2012
at 02:34 AM

I've found I do best on low carb. But it gets so damn boring. Then I get frustrated because I want carbs. My body feels great, but I am angry. Then I eat carbs. Then I feel less well. Then I get angry. Sometimes, like now, I do feel your pain.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 16, 2012
at 01:48 AM

That works for me!

C26942a79fbd94cf7c383c596c847d06

(213)

on March 16, 2012
at 01:20 AM

i agree. I am in recovery from an eating disorder (all of them...because I don't know how to abstain from food when it is around...I restrict or binge or purge cyclically throughout my life) and when I get overwhelmed I just try to tune in for what my body is asking for. sometimes fruit and kefir is super refreshing and energizing. and sometimes fried mackerel and steamed greens hits the spot in the 4pm slump. cravings DO tell you things if you just let go and listen. what do you really like? what feels good?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 16, 2012
at 01:04 AM

You get me. My problem is I remember all of it and it's just this big mass of conflicting info that no one has ever held up to real scientific scrutiny. I can't help but feel like most studies in nutrition don't start with "What's good to eat?" but rather "X is good to eat, let's prove it!"

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on March 16, 2012
at 12:25 AM

Oh, and if you eat potatoes, don't eat the peel.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 16, 2012
at 12:21 AM

LOL! You want a little cheese with that whine? Hope you feel better now. Eat whole foods and (mostly) whole cuts of meat vs. processed stuff. End of story.

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10 Answers

18
Medium avatar

on March 16, 2012
at 02:09 AM

I eventually discovered that it was the restriction itself that was most unhealthy. Choose foods based on nutrient content and enjoyability and forget about the various boogeymen the reductionists have blown out of proportion. If the perfect food tastes like shit to you and gives you a stomach ache, don't eat it.

If your favorite food on Earth is always on your mind but is paleo enemy #1, eat it. For example, perhaps due my stint in vegan federal max prison for so many years, I am quite fond of hamburgers. Hell no I'm not gonna eat it without a bun or on some kind of rice-starch facsimile. For what it's worth, I suspect that gluten intolerance (and probably nearly all autoimmune conditions) only arise in the context of a vitamin D deficiency. Once you have the immunomodulatory effects of D3 in place, a little gluten shouldn't be a problem.

Don't let this become a repressive cult. Just keep in mind that the more nutrient-sparse foods you eat, the less your diet will serve you. We all at one point probably had diets that were mostly crap with the occasional nutritious food. Just switch it around.

It's the deficiencies that are most damaging, not the toxin du jour.

D5d982a898721d3392c85f951d0bf0aa

(2417)

on March 16, 2012
at 04:02 AM

Respectfully, gluten intolerance is still under diagnosed and easily fixed - by not eating gluten. Whether or not D is an underlying contributor, I think it's a little dangerous to promote the idea that D will let gluten intolerant folks eat gluten. I still think there is celiac/gluten intolerant and the slew of people who can eat it but probably shouldn't. For that first group, eating gluten is a ticket to increased cancer risks. Nothing to minimize as a dietary tweak.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 16, 2012
at 02:50 AM

I second that....

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on March 16, 2012
at 01:58 PM

Gluten intolerance may not be "easily" fixed by not eating gluten ... at least if intolerance is anything like celiacs: http://scdlifestyle.com/2012/03/the-gluten-free-lie-why-most-celiacs-are-slowly-dying/

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on March 16, 2012
at 01:57 PM

Gluten intolerance may not be "easily" fixed by not eating gluten ... at least if it's intolerance is like celiacs: http://scdlifestyle.com/2012/03/the-gluten-free-lie-why-most-celiacs-are-slowly-dying/

Fe87afa634afe26f4f6fd956abe0b46a

(565)

on March 16, 2012
at 02:36 AM

Thank you... This post just pulled me out of a funk.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on March 16, 2012
at 04:27 AM

For me, whole eggs are way worse for my gut than whole wheat.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on March 16, 2012
at 04:24 AM

I was speaking of the etiology of the condition. Once you have those antibodies, you probably have to avoid it.

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on March 16, 2012
at 03:40 AM

I think you're right, although I disagree about gluten (if only it was that easy that vitamin D3 was the answer!) I think the take-home message of all the different problems with so many foods is that you should be aware of the possibility that a food could give you problems. The do some n=1 experiments. If it gives you problems, don't eat it. If it's okay (and healthy) then eat it. It's really as simple as that.

7
Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on March 16, 2012
at 12:45 AM

Most of the time I eat a crapless diet. I eat crap once in a while because it is delicious and because I am human.

My definition of crap is a combination of scientific evidence, fact, and personal physical and emotional response to a food item.

For my purposes as a former binge eater, sweet potatoes + butter have to fall under "crap" - not because they're unhealthy, but because they almost infallibly lead to uncontrollable eating.

KNOW THYSELF!

C26942a79fbd94cf7c383c596c847d06

(213)

on March 16, 2012
at 01:20 AM

i agree. I am in recovery from an eating disorder (all of them...because I don't know how to abstain from food when it is around...I restrict or binge or purge cyclically throughout my life) and when I get overwhelmed I just try to tune in for what my body is asking for. sometimes fruit and kefir is super refreshing and energizing. and sometimes fried mackerel and steamed greens hits the spot in the 4pm slump. cravings DO tell you things if you just let go and listen. what do you really like? what feels good?

6
F4d04667059bc682540fdfd8b40f13a7

on March 16, 2012
at 12:26 AM

I think it's best just to find out which version of Paleo works best for you, stick to that - and not worry about what everyone else says!

5
6d80a1a7b2f593aa000484ac4a294c83

on March 16, 2012
at 01:43 AM

I've come to think that any time you rely solely on someone else to tell you how YOU should be eating, you will inevitably come across conflicting advice. My strategy has been to collect as much information as possible from reliable sources, then use my gloriously evolved human brain to decide which advice works for me and which doesn't. If the way I'm eating doesn't make me feel GOOD- physically and emotionally- I take it as a sign that I need to change it.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 16, 2012
at 01:48 AM

That works for me!

4
0b28336f8cea30b40e93267d5779063b

on March 16, 2012
at 01:33 AM

Ray Peats stuff threw me for my most recent loop feeling much the same way you feel. Am I now to believe sugar is good for me? I think I've adopted the idea that most whole foods are permissible, not all are beneficial for everyone. Figuring out which is true for each individual is an exercise is patience for sure. I feel your pain.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on March 16, 2012
at 12:12 PM

Ray Peat did the same for me. Everything I thought I knew was suddenly wrong. Omega 3? evil. Sugar? Good. At that point, I threw in the towel and decided to stop thinking about it so much and just eat whole minimally processed food. Seems to be working ok.

2
F02990386b12528111740ad6279ba29d

(1363)

on March 16, 2012
at 12:49 AM

Tired? That was back before I switched to paleo.

I get what you are saying though, maybe just get one persons book and follow that and don't come on here so much!!! Sifting through all the information and opinions can definitely get to be a bit much. Then spending all day like hmmm is this affecting me bad? Is this? Should I try this?

1
D1728f99db66ff91d695a6df5cd38b02

(1368)

on March 16, 2012
at 02:02 PM

I NEVER get tired of hearing about the scientific hypothesis's or the biological effect that foods have on our body. Never. Many people like the simplicity of the paleo diet and really don't need to hear any of these complicated reasons behind it because it just works. This is PaleoHacks ie hacking and is kind of meant for people who want to know every little detail. Skepticism is healthy if you can handle it, if it stresses you out just do something simple and don't worry about all the details.

1
A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 16, 2012
at 01:12 PM

Casein is only a problem if it leaks into your bloodstream. If your digestion is good (decent amount of stomach acid) all the casein proteins should be cleaved at least once and no longer problematic. It helps to be really good about avoiding wheat.

Peel and cook the potatoes - just like our ancestors did. Don't eat the eyes or green ones. Should no longer be a problem.

Yes, yams have oxalates. Don't eat them 3x per day like Chris Masterjohn did.

Okay, you got me, grains really are bad. Although Lucas Tafur blogs about a bacteria that breaks down the gluten proteins that may have evolved in us since the introduction of agriculture. Perhaps the real problem is the antibiotics we constantly take...

The fructose in fruit may not be toxic, unless paired with PUFA/n6. Keeping overall PUFA and total n6 very low should allow fruit to be eaten without harm. (maybe)

Phytates are a non-issue. But nuts do have a lot of PUFA/n6. Don't eat a lot of them and perhaps don't eat them with fruit.

Probably correct on the protein and white rice. Primates in the wild (all of them that have been studied) will eat until their protein requirements are satisfied. Then they stop eating. I think we have a natural off switch preventing too much protein consumption. Alternatively, if you want to eat less (lose weight), make sure you get enough protein in yours meals to satisfy.

Takeaway: Eat real food. Listen to your hunger/satiety signals. Don't get too wrapped around the axle about problems with food, unless you experience something negative. If something makes you feel bad, don't eat it.

A lot of what we thought was bad was simply an overreaction. Remember when Richard Nikoley was banned from a number of paleo blogs beacuse he dared to eat potatoes and recommend them? Oh, the heresy! Now, everybody eats potatoes. And the PHD is a mainstream paleo diet with it's "safe starch" recommendations. Paleo is emerging from the shadow of VLC. Fruit may be making a comeback as well. We shall see.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on March 16, 2012
at 09:02 PM

Are phytates really a non-issue now? I am craving brown rice, and I am really starting to hate white rice.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 19, 2012
at 01:24 PM

Maybe "non-issue" is not precise. Perhaps it's just not nearly as big of a problem as we thought. I would avoid brown rice because of the hard fiber, but maybe that's just my excuse, since I prefer the white. Rice is just not all that nutritious compared to say, meat/eggs/fish/kale/blueberries/nuts, so I don't eat a lot of it anyways. Mostly as part of sushi or when my wife makes a curry dish. I'd much rather eat a potato - I like it better and it's got some pretty good stufz in it. Man, life is too short to eat things that you hate eating!

1
76e1966a241aa406daf8c3307d5ded80

on March 16, 2012
at 12:47 AM

you read my mind! im exhausted of reading so much stuff and trying to retain all the information, now its like i dont even know what to eat anymore! but like suz says, just eat whatever works for you, its all we can do, right?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 16, 2012
at 01:04 AM

You get me. My problem is I remember all of it and it's just this big mass of conflicting info that no one has ever held up to real scientific scrutiny. I can't help but feel like most studies in nutrition don't start with "What's good to eat?" but rather "X is good to eat, let's prove it!"

0
32c7660e73f7df51e538107e6883a863

on March 16, 2012
at 01:15 AM

When your leaky gut get healed, which it will when you remove all processed food, you will no longer be tired.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 16, 2012
at 02:52 AM

I've been Paleo for over a year and my "cheats" amount to Sushi and dark chocolate. I've had Pizza 1x in 3 years.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on March 16, 2012
at 12:13 PM

those wouldn't qualify as cheats in my book b/c there's nothing inherently unhealthy about them, really. Maybe you're too strict with yourself?

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