10

votes

How many of you are actually Paleo still?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created June 08, 2012 at 2:05 AM

It seems that there's less and less Paleo people around. I see plenty of WAPF-type diet eaters here that recommend fermented forms of dairy and fermented/sprouted grains, but not many people who follow a strict Paleo diet. Wondering why this is. Is it because Paleo is too restrictive and a WAPF diet is essentially Paleo+healthy grains and dairy (which are generally the two food groups "normies" and unhealthies can't live without?)

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on September 10, 2013
at 10:38 AM

-1000 So those of us who are celiacs should lighten up eat bread once in a while? Really?

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on September 10, 2013
at 10:35 AM

It ain't the phytates that I'd worry about, it's the lectins. Gluten and gluten analogues (if you're talking non-wheat), gliadins, those are the problems - and cooking won't solve it. Phytates are in nuts and other things, and I do fine on them. Each person has their own poisons, to you phytates may be an issue, to another histamines, to another lectins, to another saponins. Paleo isn't a single diet.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on September 10, 2013
at 10:31 AM

@Bread-Eating Beelzebub cauliflower rice is delicious, doesn't do anything bad to my stomach, try it before you bash it.

Medium avatar

on September 10, 2013
at 05:48 AM

I am out of paleo, but my 4 friends are still on Paleo

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

It is certainly subjective, and it's my own subjective take on it. I don't think it's as simple as claiming I have a higher value on food pleasure than long-term health. I'm no longer convinced that long-term health is compromised by a little grain consumption. Without underlying gut health, metabolism and autoimmunity issues, grains/gluten/legumes are pretty harmless.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on June 12, 2012
at 11:33 PM

@FED - Sure! Let's do dis! Just let me get back in gear from my weekend at the coast soaked in ice cream and fish n' chips... ;)

45ace03a0eff1219943d746cfb1c4197

(3661)

on June 10, 2012
at 07:08 PM

No supplements here. Gum is not appealing. I don't know that it's dedication so much as not seeing a reason to go another direction. If I'm cooking, I'm certainly not interested in preparing food that's harmful, and I do all our cooking. I should also mention, I am a serious foodie. We eat well and most definitely play with our food.

3b3a449b6705e9ec8b141d0bd07c1a64

(1489)

on June 10, 2012
at 04:36 PM

No I love paleo, and whole foods and all, I just find it incredible, and inspiring that you eat 100% strict paleo with no neolithic anythings!! that is dedication.

3b3a449b6705e9ec8b141d0bd07c1a64

(1489)

on June 10, 2012
at 04:35 PM

Do you guys supplement with anything though?

A2b9075bd176ca2912743e4df1e4af49

(146)

on June 10, 2012
at 03:44 AM

100% 99% of the time

7660f5a0ec906d3922d79b20f3434ecc

(788)

on June 09, 2012
at 11:04 PM

So, I am curious then. Do properly prepared grains provide a similar amount of nutrients to tubers? Eating isn't all about nutritional value but you seem to be arguing on the basis of nutrition.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 09, 2012
at 10:16 PM

no, we can't see who does the upvotes.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on June 09, 2012
at 09:10 PM

Karen, I've been food logging for the past few weeks. If you promise a "full divulge" I will do the same!

Medium avatar

(19479)

on June 09, 2012
at 09:08 PM

Lol, but cauliflower "rice" is PK! (Paleo Korrect, Paleo Kosher, Paleo Kool...)

Medium avatar

(10611)

on June 09, 2012
at 09:06 PM

Just eating meat would improve the lives of vegans out there. How many of THEM are left? A few hundred? Ewww I won't eat that! It touched meat!

Medium avatar

(19479)

on June 09, 2012
at 09:05 PM

Individual genetics (including the genetics of the microbiome) play a huge role, making "one size fits all" proclamations about diet (i.e. "gluten is the devil's excrement" - direct quote, bonus points if you can guess who) essentially meaningless. Humans, however, are predisposed towards essentiallism (aka stereotyping, generalizing, "black and white"-ing) and therefore it is to be expected that the tendency is to label some things "good" and others "bad. The paleo template provides a solid starting point for self-experimentation, but it's definitely not the be-all and end-all.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 09, 2012
at 09:03 PM

How is it possible to earn so many points for such an ordinary post? I take it that the admins can see who does the upvoting?

Medium avatar

(19479)

on June 09, 2012
at 09:00 PM

Most excellent memeing by the way.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on June 09, 2012
at 08:59 PM

I'm here for what paleo affirms not what it denies. You can never be perfect enough. But I'm always disappointed to see such strictness regarding food and such laxness regarding activity. It's all about nomadic life folks!

Medium avatar

(10611)

on June 09, 2012
at 08:47 PM

Eating meat and staying active is paleo enough for me. True Paleos put too much faith in Gary Taubes and too little faith in hunt-and-gather behavior.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 09, 2012
at 08:22 PM

every single plant food contains antinutrients, some people are more sensitive to certain ones. Myself, I am happy to have some phytic acid, having some alleles related to iron overload.

01eb62476756ea980bf8fc048179d4bc

(374)

on June 09, 2012
at 07:40 PM

I agree. Cauliflower feels like steel wool on the insides.

01eb62476756ea980bf8fc048179d4bc

(374)

on June 09, 2012
at 07:38 PM

Yeah but if I remember correctly he only posted one day. It would be great to see everything that take in for like a week or two.

01eb62476756ea980bf8fc048179d4bc

(374)

on June 09, 2012
at 07:37 PM

Of course there are people who will eat nuts like they're going out of style on a "paleo" diet, but I think a lot of people agree that there is nothing "paleo" about almond flour pancakes or even eating a large amount of nuts. Personally, for a number of reasons, I don't really eat nuts. I understand your point, that nuts are often considered safe on paleo and that there is clear evidence that they contain just as many anti-nutrients as grains do, but your comment assumes that I am ignorant of this fact. Did I say that grains suck but nuts are wonderful? No.

D63a9a7789b948a1e88647f6c0e504ca

(1453)

on June 09, 2012
at 06:35 PM

Sisson has done that in the past, I remember reading the post or posts.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 09, 2012
at 06:22 PM

so, plenty of "paleo" foods have lots and lots of phytic acid! http://huntgatherlove.com/content/phytic-acid-taking-paleo-blinders

7660f5a0ec906d3922d79b20f3434ecc

(788)

on June 09, 2012
at 06:15 PM

Upvoted for a good point.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 09, 2012
at 05:47 PM

I'm lucky I have friends who don't give a fuck :)

Dabdb4e771b72dff14709b0258b207a7

(201)

on June 09, 2012
at 04:35 PM

<3 This is such an important point.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on June 09, 2012
at 02:53 PM

Ha! Even better! Make everyone else show their cards! ;)

242b6f51761717721115fd464834456b

(160)

on June 09, 2012
at 01:54 PM

I like to hear that there are other people out there who enjoy eating fruit. Reading some of the posts around here, you'd think fruit was the devil!

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on June 09, 2012
at 01:13 PM

Not just PH. A multitude of other health communities would indicate that people are switching from Paleo and Primal to "quite heavily modified Paleo."

01eb62476756ea980bf8fc048179d4bc

(374)

on June 09, 2012
at 12:21 PM

I mean he was talking about having people like sisson, wolf, etc. record their eating.

01eb62476756ea980bf8fc048179d4bc

(374)

on June 09, 2012
at 12:17 PM

All the information I've read/heard suggests that phytic acid is somewhat reduced, but not eliminated, by cooking grains. Fair enough that they are not "toxic" per se, but they do contain a significant amount of anti-nutrients. I'm still not convinced that even if soaked, fermented, sprouted, whatever, there is really any nutritional benefit to eating these foods.

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 09, 2012
at 11:13 AM

Whenever I see people refer to foods as bad or even use the term "neolethal," even though that one always gets a chuckle out of me, I think "boy they're sure drinking the paleo kool-aid." Always a good reminder for personal reflection, never know when a little confirmation bias will sneak up on ya.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 09, 2012
at 06:59 AM

@DJDeeJay Just added dairy, sugar, honey, haagen-dazs, coffee, chocolate, and I'm not eating veggies but fruit instead. It's still pretty close but with sugar and ice cream I can't call myself paleo :) @Karen haha NO! @Doris Thanks Doris!

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 09, 2012
at 04:42 AM

It makes me wonder how much of a factor gut flora is. I think that for the average person not concerned with optimal just trying to avoid the biggies like diabetes and heart disease there may be smaller shifts that would be beneficial when viewed at the population level. Even 1950s era processed crap and food portions would probably halve health care costs. Most of us find paleo or WAPF because were already sick or we are health nerds looking to maximize our potential.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 09, 2012
at 04:07 AM

+++ whenever I see recipes for "paleo" cauliflower "rice", I can't even imagine what that would do to my stomach. Real rice is so much gentler.

45ace03a0eff1219943d746cfb1c4197

(3661)

on June 09, 2012
at 02:53 AM

Just to clarify, no I don't eat out, our kitchen is totally Paleo, so I don't anticipate cross-contamination. Strict Paleo does not mean no fun with food, geez.

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on June 09, 2012
at 02:50 AM

{continued} I also think that it's more important to avoid grains/legumes/dairy if you have immune problems or otherwise terrible diseases in your family's history. But again-- a lot of family medical/nutritional history issues going on there.

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on June 09, 2012
at 02:49 AM

"I personally think it is important to take our recent ancestor’s way of life into consideration when determining what is optimal for each of us and balancing that with what is reasonable for the long-term." Exactly. I was "paleo" for about six months before I finally got around to reading Weston A Price's book. My views since reading that have been a lot more accommodating and rather Archevore-ish. Sugar, veg oils, gluten. Fermented legumes and some GF fermented grains actually have made me feel better. Not super frequent, but I definitely eat some.

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on June 09, 2012
at 02:46 AM

so.... not 100% then?

4929a87e3f7438f18a0afbdde291ed5e

(752)

on June 09, 2012
at 02:30 AM

+1 for not eating at social events. I agree with you 100% on the conformity issue. Others are very uncomfortable with this - I'm fine with it. It's their problem.

4929a87e3f7438f18a0afbdde291ed5e

(752)

on June 09, 2012
at 02:28 AM

I used to feel isolated because I am strict Paleo (health issues) and I realized it was my friends who were uncomfortable watching me either (a) not eat; or (b) eat something really fatty while they pick at their salads with ranch dressing on the side with a diet coke. I decided to let them feel uncomfortable and to just sit there with a club soda with lime rather than eat sub-par meat and spend money at a restaurant when I could spend it on some pastured eggs and feel 100% better then next day. Life is ALL about choices - social or otherwise.

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 09, 2012
at 01:40 AM

I think adaptation doesn't necessarily imply mutation. Those genes are more often expressed in adults whose biocultural evolutionary history has selected for it. I consider that an adaptation because it improved their reproductive fitness relative to their paleolithic ancestors.

7660f5a0ec906d3922d79b20f3434ecc

(788)

on June 09, 2012
at 01:40 AM

Better men then I have but I suppose we will agree to disagree. I don't have the knowledge offhand to argue this point.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 09, 2012
at 01:30 AM

Fermented and soaked etc grains are good, sure. But let's not even go that far. Unfermented oats, rye, buckwheat, etc are just fine, too. EDubs, grains are not toxic once cooked. Toxic doesn't have a proper definition but either way you slice it, once they're cooked today's grains are indeed fine.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on June 09, 2012
at 12:49 AM

My guess is Kresser would be pretty unremarkable. He'd make us all look bad! ;) But just the act of recording a diet for the world to see and judge would make them choose more wisely, no?

01eb62476756ea980bf8fc048179d4bc

(374)

on June 09, 2012
at 12:08 AM

Kresser was talking about doing that! It would be awesome.

01eb62476756ea980bf8fc048179d4bc

(374)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:48 PM

I agree with you for the most part, but the argument about milk is not necessarily valid. That's more a matter of gene expression, as we were all (or most of us) born with the ability to digest. People who continue to digest lactose into adulthood are the ones in whom that gene continues to be expressed, it is not that a new gene was created.

65bf1ca7071028018c6d8305d0ddcd76

(3049)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:47 PM

(and yes, cross contamination is a huge concern and the reason I don't eat out except for the very occasional sashimi. When I say sushi, it's really only sashimi, no Ginger, no soy sauce ( which generally has wheat) and no wasabi (the fake stuff is FULL of junk like MSG and cornstarch)....

65bf1ca7071028018c6d8305d0ddcd76

(3049)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:45 PM

Mzrdnan: no coffee, I will only eat wild caught sushi in a restaurant. If I must go out with colleagues I eat beforehand and I don't drink. I always pack lunch and have macadamia nuts in my desk drawers and purse for snacks. (I IF and my first meal is at noon, eating done by7 pm). It's my lifestyle... I can see why many would choose not to adopt this but it has worked amazingly for me. I have no children, and my celiac partner is very supportive.

01eb62476756ea980bf8fc048179d4bc

(374)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:37 PM

I think the WAPF is great and so is its diet. Sure, lots of traditional peoples thrive on properly prepared grains. However, process involved in making grains into healthful foods rather than toxic ones is, in my opinion, not worth the time or the effort. And for reference, a medium sweet potato has the same amount of starch as a serving of oatmeal.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 08, 2012
at 10:18 PM

you have never provided a real reason why potatoes would be better.

7660f5a0ec906d3922d79b20f3434ecc

(788)

on June 08, 2012
at 10:16 PM

I respect your opinion Melissa but selective breeding or no his point was that properly prepared grains are better for you than a sweet potato. The potatoes now are not toxic and do not require a lot of processing to make them safe. My point was not which was more Paleo but what I think the better food is NOW.

0e395acc856e3353f3f5892e6b09b0e7

(1227)

on June 08, 2012
at 09:56 PM

I've enjoyed your young voice on this blog and hope you stay tuned and do whatever works for youl

A7768b6c6be7f5d6acc76e5efa66464c

on June 08, 2012
at 09:37 PM

Babby Jesus FTW!

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on June 08, 2012
at 09:34 PM

Can I have your gold badge then?

E3575e92da86cbf4d7803d3aa09f962a

(35)

on June 08, 2012
at 09:32 PM

So what do you do now instead?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 08, 2012
at 08:47 PM

And you guys have no idea what you are talking about in terms of preparation. Most tubers hunter-gatherers eat are highly toxic and require quite a lot of processing to render them safe. It was only through selective breeding that we came up with the at least not completely toxic tuber varieties we have today.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 08, 2012
at 08:46 PM

Yes, I agree with that last line. Depends what kind of cake though ;)

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 08, 2012
at 08:46 PM

*"those orange sugary starchbombs."* lol at this, that's a pretty silly thing to say. though I'm not a fan of sweet potatoes, taste like crap.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 08, 2012
at 08:43 PM

Tubers tend to bother my stomach worse than a few varieties of fermented grains.

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on June 08, 2012
at 08:28 PM

"A LONG, SUNNY, WALK IN THE WOODS = 20 SLICES OF CAKE TO ME." RIGHT ON! I wouldn't say it's 20 slices for me, but it's good for at least 2 or 3! ;)

7660f5a0ec906d3922d79b20f3434ecc

(788)

on June 08, 2012
at 04:29 PM

This argument has been done to death but the general consensus is correlation does not equal causation. I am not saying that you can't eat grains at all. If thats what works, go for it. But there is no way in hell that grains are "better for you" than tubers like a sweet potato. I cant even imagine one way grains are better than tubers.

35a8b223ae5d863f17a8c9e3a8eed5eb

(571)

on June 08, 2012
at 01:13 PM

How long have you been strict paleo? I had the same thought like you 2 years ago.

35a8b223ae5d863f17a8c9e3a8eed5eb

(571)

on June 08, 2012
at 01:12 PM

To everyone, who thinks grains are inherently unhealthy. The longest living cultures today do eat grains.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 08, 2012
at 01:01 PM

WAPF. they knew the deal before anyone started saying "paleo." Just eat real food. Use common sense. Avoid processed foods, be active, smile, be a positive force in the world. Don't overthink stuff. Eat well to fuel your positive, active life.

35a8b223ae5d863f17a8c9e3a8eed5eb

(571)

on June 08, 2012
at 12:59 PM

Pseudofood? Dude, I've been there. 4 Years ago, strict paleo. Chill out y'all

Baa413654789b57f3579474ca7fa43d7

(2349)

on June 08, 2012
at 12:59 PM

+1 for Paleo Babby Jesus. Makes me laugh every time.

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 08, 2012
at 12:06 PM

...Yeah, I sometimes make compromises and pay the consequences. I'll never forget the look on that girl's face when I said; "no thanks I don't eat stuff like that" in response to the huckleberry pie she surprised me with.

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 08, 2012
at 12:00 PM

@Carl D-I wish it were always that simple but I sometimes (often) go to other people's houses. We are watching PPV fights or the Superbowl or whatever; "oh, no thanks I won't have any spaghetti or pasta" or "no thanks those loaded potato skins have dairy on them" or "sorry that fried chicken has wheat breading and I just got tested for celiac due to my extreme reaction to wheat" or "you guys are ordering pizza? Get me that new Dominoes gluten-free crust at half the size and twice the price as the pizzas your getting for everyone else."

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 08, 2012
at 11:51 AM

I think I've seen more WAPFers go Paleo than the other way around. Unless you consider a person who on has ever eaten a little fermented dairy to be WAPF.

3b3a449b6705e9ec8b141d0bd07c1a64

(1489)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:33 AM

long-term health is ideal, but to be honest, once we've finished reproducing it's all down hill anyway...eat what makes you feel good and what your body responds to well (whatever level of compliance that may be) and you'll live a long and prosperous life that you also enjoy :)

7660f5a0ec906d3922d79b20f3434ecc

(788)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:28 AM

I disagree completely. No offense meant but how is properly preparing a psuedofood to make it digestible better than a real food?

3b3a449b6705e9ec8b141d0bd07c1a64

(1489)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:27 AM

"Eating out is still fun, but it's expensive, and I am disappointed when I pay to eat out and can make the dish 100X better at home." YES! I have come to realise this

3b3a449b6705e9ec8b141d0bd07c1a64

(1489)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:26 AM

so you guys never eat out and have cross-contamination or anything? or no gum ever? or coffee? do you supplement with any vitamins?? - all of which are strictly non-paleo

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:23 AM

+1 for dogmatic assertions of newbies. We all start paleo quoting chapter and verse of the paleo gospels. :)

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:22 AM

Yes, Mscott - I did just suggest well-fermented probiotic-rich and easy to digest grains are better than those orange sugary starchbombs.

599feb9ad716266e8eb5030cd82d5dcd

(229)

on June 08, 2012
at 10:25 AM

I agree that sometimes I enjoy the aesthetic of thinking myself as more primal or whatever, but of course that's not the case. From what I understand the general philosophy of this diet is to be as close as we can to the diet our ancestors ate. That would be extremely difficult or expensive and is not a viable way for most people to eat, so we do our best by adding things like butter, lard, coconut oil, supplements etc. It's by no means ideal, but pretty much the best most of us are going to get. Plus, organic grass fed meat is not that expensive if you have your priorities in order.

599feb9ad716266e8eb5030cd82d5dcd

(229)

on June 08, 2012
at 10:19 AM

I don't see how you could be isolated really. When everyone is eating pasta, you eat pork chops (or whatever), simple!

599feb9ad716266e8eb5030cd82d5dcd

(229)

on June 08, 2012
at 10:16 AM

'Too restrictive' is certainly subjective, I totally enjoy the paleo diet and dont mind avoiding the less healthy foods. It just depends on how you value pleasure from food vs optimal long term health. Personally I am young/healthy and can get away with even eating things like cake without the negative short term effects, but I know that the damage adds up over time. It is best to avoid them all together and just not be emotionally attached to comfort food, but thats just my opinion

599feb9ad716266e8eb5030cd82d5dcd

(229)

on June 08, 2012
at 09:50 AM

How long have you been vlc, and have you lost weight yet? Also coffee for some people can hinder weight loss by increasing insulin levels, just something to watch out for.

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on June 08, 2012
at 07:50 AM

Totally agree Mscott. dafuq did I just read???

65bf1ca7071028018c6d8305d0ddcd76

(3049)

on June 08, 2012
at 06:31 AM

Me too, aseafish: Many would consider us 'extreme Paleo'... I don't even entertain the idea of dairy, legumes, grains or tubers in my diet. This is simply because they don't agree with me... Same goes for sugar/honey/sweeteners of any kind. I don't actually feel like I'm restricting anything because ive been dairy free for +2 years and gluten free for 9. Eliminating the other things has finally addressed my seemingly never-ending gastrointestinal distress. It's come to a point where I don't even consider these other things as foods anymore for myself.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on June 08, 2012
at 05:30 AM

Whoa, did you just suggest fermented grains are better than sweet potatoes? Blasphemy!

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21

(5798)

on June 08, 2012
at 05:27 AM

P.S. I'm not trying to come across as a "hardcore Paleo fascist". I really mean it- there is a reason why the "paleo" way of eating in the past few decades have not recommended grains, dairy, sugar, and vegetable oils. I don't care, at all, what anyone else eats, because I'll probably die of cancer (due to over a decade of smoking and drinking), but I do want to make the best of my time here, with my husband, especially since I have lost four people I care deeply about in the past few years, due to disease and depression. I will probably lose 3 more, next year.

66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on June 08, 2012
at 05:12 AM

+1 especially this: "It isn't hard at all and I certainly don't dwell on what I don't eat."

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 08, 2012
at 03:44 AM

"Deranged metabolism" boy that brings me back to the halcyon days of paleo.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on June 08, 2012
at 03:37 AM

Somebody call the paleo police!

4b5be253ac1981c690689cab7e4bf06d

(3043)

on June 08, 2012
at 03:21 AM

I dont see a lot of WAPF grains, I see more of the fermented foods and raw dairy. (Both of which I eat because they are delicious!)

Cbf014e1272e1c092e774c70e78b7890

(300)

on June 08, 2012
at 02:57 AM

Paleo is pretty broad, and to most people paleo is what we make it. Everyone defines their own paleo habits based on what fits their lifestyle. Personally, I'm more primal - I eat some fermented dairy but no grains and get most of my calories from fat, then protein, and the least from carbs. But Ill still call myself a paleo and will even cheat once in a while. I am paleo b/c i consider myself paleo and believe in most of the health benefits, but I've tailored it to what my body tolerates (and enjoys) b/c eating paleo should not be a prison!

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on June 08, 2012
at 02:44 AM

I think it's the other way around - a lot of Paleo eaters end up WAPF. But yeah, I agree that the two groups aren't at odds. Not at odds like Paleo and 30bad followers are anyway.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on June 08, 2012
at 02:43 AM

Nothing wrong with fermented and well-sprouted breads if you have no problem digesting starches. Provided you have no digestive issues, fermented grains are still better for you than any tubers like sweet potatoes.

3ed47bb3513ed0b4849e6b492422cadf

(90)

on June 08, 2012
at 02:37 AM

healthy grains? lol there is no such thing!

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1
4929a87e3f7438f18a0afbdde291ed5e

on June 09, 2012
at 02:36 AM

I'm still nearly 99% Paleo but for dark chocolate a few times a week. I do need to dial back the almonds again, but I've been working long hours without notice and that's what I have in my drawer as a "go to" snack when I'm truly hungry and IF isn't feeling like an option at that moment. I am grain free, dairy free, and eat very little in the way of carbs when I'm not exercising regularly to use them up. For the first time in 30 years (I'm 43), I feel like I have control over my body - allergies are almost non-existent now, acne is 98% gone most of the month (I am still a girl after all!), aches and pains are gone, blood sugars don't swing wildly any longer, haven't had a headache since I started eating Paleo. I just don't see a downside to it. Yes, my friends point out how inconvenient it is to have to cook all the time - but I love to cook and just take 5-6 hours on a weekend morning (or afternoon) and do it up all at once. Not a big sacrifice to feel good, I don't think. I think it's quite liberating that after 20 years of having to eat every 2 hours from wildly fluctuating blood sugars (not diabetic, but obviously insulin issues), I can go up to 18 hours without eating - super convenient when I travel through American airports with nothing but crap food offerings.

I think Paleo is too difficult for most people, which is what I tell my husband when he suggests that Paleo will take over the world. No, it won't - most people I know can't forego the conveniences of frozen foods and take out/restaurant fare. Hey, no matter to me, I love Paleo and can't NOT eat Paleo - I feel horrible. That being said, I'm happy for the ones that don't have any leaky gut issues or allergies (such as my husband who also eats 98% Paleo with full fat fermented Kefir). Good for them - it leaves more grass-fed meat and ghee for me. :)

19
98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

on June 08, 2012
at 02:54 AM

The crowd never seems to lighten up around here does it? Even Paleo Babby Jesus eats a corn tortilla every once in a while. (Or have we kicked him out of the club already?)

Baa413654789b57f3579474ca7fa43d7

(2349)

on June 08, 2012
at 12:59 PM

+1 for Paleo Babby Jesus. Makes me laugh every time.

A7768b6c6be7f5d6acc76e5efa66464c

on June 08, 2012
at 09:37 PM

Babby Jesus FTW!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on June 08, 2012
at 03:37 AM

Somebody call the paleo police!

14
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 08, 2012
at 08:45 PM

What the hell ever happened to the pareto principle? You know, doing 80% paleo and 20% other good stuff? Strict paleo can be a useful tool, but I personally have absolutely no interest in following a strict diet unless I absolutely have to.

how-many-of-you-are-actually-paleo-still?

You also are going to be WAY more effective IRL when interacting with other people if you refrain from calling foods "bad." I always just say "oh, I can't have any XYZ because it makes my stomach act up/allergies worse/etc." If they want to know more about your diet, they will ask you.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 09, 2012
at 09:03 PM

How is it possible to earn so many points for such an ordinary post? I take it that the admins can see who does the upvoting?

7660f5a0ec906d3922d79b20f3434ecc

(788)

on June 09, 2012
at 06:15 PM

Upvoted for a good point.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 09, 2012
at 10:16 PM

no, we can't see who does the upvotes.

Dabdb4e771b72dff14709b0258b207a7

(201)

on June 09, 2012
at 04:35 PM

<3 This is such an important point.

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 09, 2012
at 11:13 AM

Whenever I see people refer to foods as bad or even use the term "neolethal," even though that one always gets a chuckle out of me, I think "boy they're sure drinking the paleo kool-aid." Always a good reminder for personal reflection, never know when a little confirmation bias will sneak up on ya.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on June 09, 2012
at 09:00 PM

Most excellent memeing by the way.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on September 10, 2013
at 10:38 AM

-1000 So those of us who are celiacs should lighten up eat bread once in a while? Really?

12
34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 08, 2012
at 11:09 AM

Strict paleo is restrictive. I think it tends to attract people who trend towards the extreme/ascetic, people who strive for optimal, or people who are for whatever reason unable to eat any other way (IBS, gut issues or whatever). Once the latter group begins to experience a healing of the gut or the former realizes that a few compromises don???t make that much of a difference, then it only seems natural that people would tend to experiment with other non-paleo foods.

The premise that humans as a whole have not evolved since the paleolithic and should therefore only eat a diet in keeping with that stage of evolution is not widely accepted even in paleo communities, or at least if shouldn???t be. To be honest we can only speculate about some of the specifics regarding diet. The fact that any populations of humans should be adapted to be able to utilize milk beyond childhood should tell us that powerful selective forces are at work in shaping our individual evolution. I personally think it is important to take our recent ancestor???s way of life into consideration when determining what is optimal for each of us and balancing that with what is reasonable for the long-term.

It isn???t as though we all have the infrastructure or the means available to support 100% paleo compliant lifestyle. We all make some compromises and I think you???ll find that to be true once you???re a little further on your own journey. You may even find the dogmatic assertions of ???newbies??? to be a bit much.

Personally I find that if I follow my daily fast and workout with a PWO whey protein shake and later a decent dinner at home then I???m better able control the amount deleterious foods (for me) that I take in. Whereas if I had to pack a steak or other clean protein source with me throughout the day or try to find another source, my lifts and body recomp would suffer considerably. So I drink a shake and then eat a proper meal at home. If it means I???m not strict paleo in your eyes well so what. But for the record I really don???t see many paleos who eat grains, fermented or not on a regular basis???dairy is another case but one that is understandable in my eyes as long as your still able to move towards your optimal.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:23 AM

+1 for dogmatic assertions of newbies. We all start paleo quoting chapter and verse of the paleo gospels. :)

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on June 09, 2012
at 02:49 AM

"I personally think it is important to take our recent ancestor’s way of life into consideration when determining what is optimal for each of us and balancing that with what is reasonable for the long-term." Exactly. I was "paleo" for about six months before I finally got around to reading Weston A Price's book. My views since reading that have been a lot more accommodating and rather Archevore-ish. Sugar, veg oils, gluten. Fermented legumes and some GF fermented grains actually have made me feel better. Not super frequent, but I definitely eat some.

01eb62476756ea980bf8fc048179d4bc

(374)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:48 PM

I agree with you for the most part, but the argument about milk is not necessarily valid. That's more a matter of gene expression, as we were all (or most of us) born with the ability to digest. People who continue to digest lactose into adulthood are the ones in whom that gene continues to be expressed, it is not that a new gene was created.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on June 09, 2012
at 09:05 PM

Individual genetics (including the genetics of the microbiome) play a huge role, making "one size fits all" proclamations about diet (i.e. "gluten is the devil's excrement" - direct quote, bonus points if you can guess who) essentially meaningless. Humans, however, are predisposed towards essentiallism (aka stereotyping, generalizing, "black and white"-ing) and therefore it is to be expected that the tendency is to label some things "good" and others "bad. The paleo template provides a solid starting point for self-experimentation, but it's definitely not the be-all and end-all.

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 09, 2012
at 01:40 AM

I think adaptation doesn't necessarily imply mutation. Those genes are more often expressed in adults whose biocultural evolutionary history has selected for it. I consider that an adaptation because it improved their reproductive fitness relative to their paleolithic ancestors.

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on June 09, 2012
at 02:50 AM

{continued} I also think that it's more important to avoid grains/legumes/dairy if you have immune problems or otherwise terrible diseases in your family's history. But again-- a lot of family medical/nutritional history issues going on there.

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 09, 2012
at 04:42 AM

It makes me wonder how much of a factor gut flora is. I think that for the average person not concerned with optimal just trying to avoid the biggies like diabetes and heart disease there may be smaller shifts that would be beneficial when viewed at the population level. Even 1950s era processed crap and food portions would probably halve health care costs. Most of us find paleo or WAPF because were already sick or we are health nerds looking to maximize our potential.

11
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on June 08, 2012
at 03:27 AM

I'm definitely less hardcore paleo than I used to be. Just have come to the conclusion that paleo is too restrictive for folks with functional healthy guts. I simply minimize the verboten paleo foods and find I do just fine. I think most folks without deranged metabolisms, immune and digestive systems would also do fine with such an implementation.

599feb9ad716266e8eb5030cd82d5dcd

(229)

on June 08, 2012
at 10:16 AM

'Too restrictive' is certainly subjective, I totally enjoy the paleo diet and dont mind avoiding the less healthy foods. It just depends on how you value pleasure from food vs optimal long term health. Personally I am young/healthy and can get away with even eating things like cake without the negative short term effects, but I know that the damage adds up over time. It is best to avoid them all together and just not be emotionally attached to comfort food, but thats just my opinion

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

It is certainly subjective, and it's my own subjective take on it. I don't think it's as simple as claiming I have a higher value on food pleasure than long-term health. I'm no longer convinced that long-term health is compromised by a little grain consumption. Without underlying gut health, metabolism and autoimmunity issues, grains/gluten/legumes are pretty harmless.

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 08, 2012
at 03:44 AM

"Deranged metabolism" boy that brings me back to the halcyon days of paleo.

3b3a449b6705e9ec8b141d0bd07c1a64

(1489)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:33 AM

long-term health is ideal, but to be honest, once we've finished reproducing it's all down hill anyway...eat what makes you feel good and what your body responds to well (whatever level of compliance that may be) and you'll live a long and prosperous life that you also enjoy :)

Medium avatar

(10611)

on June 09, 2012
at 09:06 PM

Just eating meat would improve the lives of vegans out there. How many of THEM are left? A few hundred? Ewww I won't eat that! It touched meat!

10
45ace03a0eff1219943d746cfb1c4197

(3661)

on June 08, 2012
at 02:24 AM

Interesting observation. I can't even picture myself touching dairy and the idea of "healthy grains" makes me giggle. 100%, strictly Paleo here. It isn't hard at all and I certainly don't dwell on what I don't eat.

66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on June 08, 2012
at 05:12 AM

+1 especially this: "It isn't hard at all and I certainly don't dwell on what I don't eat."

3b3a449b6705e9ec8b141d0bd07c1a64

(1489)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:26 AM

so you guys never eat out and have cross-contamination or anything? or no gum ever? or coffee? do you supplement with any vitamins?? - all of which are strictly non-paleo

35a8b223ae5d863f17a8c9e3a8eed5eb

(571)

on June 08, 2012
at 01:13 PM

How long have you been strict paleo? I had the same thought like you 2 years ago.

65bf1ca7071028018c6d8305d0ddcd76

(3049)

on June 08, 2012
at 06:31 AM

Me too, aseafish: Many would consider us 'extreme Paleo'... I don't even entertain the idea of dairy, legumes, grains or tubers in my diet. This is simply because they don't agree with me... Same goes for sugar/honey/sweeteners of any kind. I don't actually feel like I'm restricting anything because ive been dairy free for +2 years and gluten free for 9. Eliminating the other things has finally addressed my seemingly never-ending gastrointestinal distress. It's come to a point where I don't even consider these other things as foods anymore for myself.

45ace03a0eff1219943d746cfb1c4197

(3661)

on June 09, 2012
at 02:53 AM

Just to clarify, no I don't eat out, our kitchen is totally Paleo, so I don't anticipate cross-contamination. Strict Paleo does not mean no fun with food, geez.

65bf1ca7071028018c6d8305d0ddcd76

(3049)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:45 PM

Mzrdnan: no coffee, I will only eat wild caught sushi in a restaurant. If I must go out with colleagues I eat beforehand and I don't drink. I always pack lunch and have macadamia nuts in my desk drawers and purse for snacks. (I IF and my first meal is at noon, eating done by7 pm). It's my lifestyle... I can see why many would choose not to adopt this but it has worked amazingly for me. I have no children, and my celiac partner is very supportive.

65bf1ca7071028018c6d8305d0ddcd76

(3049)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:47 PM

(and yes, cross contamination is a huge concern and the reason I don't eat out except for the very occasional sashimi. When I say sushi, it's really only sashimi, no Ginger, no soy sauce ( which generally has wheat) and no wasabi (the fake stuff is FULL of junk like MSG and cornstarch)....

3b3a449b6705e9ec8b141d0bd07c1a64

(1489)

on June 10, 2012
at 04:35 PM

Do you guys supplement with anything though?

45ace03a0eff1219943d746cfb1c4197

(3661)

on June 10, 2012
at 07:08 PM

No supplements here. Gum is not appealing. I don't know that it's dedication so much as not seeing a reason to go another direction. If I'm cooking, I'm certainly not interested in preparing food that's harmful, and I do all our cooking. I should also mention, I am a serious foodie. We eat well and most definitely play with our food.

3b3a449b6705e9ec8b141d0bd07c1a64

(1489)

on June 10, 2012
at 04:36 PM

No I love paleo, and whole foods and all, I just find it incredible, and inspiring that you eat 100% strict paleo with no neolithic anythings!! that is dedication.

9
07c86972a3bea0b0dc17752e9d2f5642

on June 09, 2012
at 03:25 AM

I think there's a greater percentage of people on PaleoHacks who are looking to solve some serious problems they're having than in the Paleo community as a whole. They are more likely to find the typical low carb paleo diet isn't the cure all it presents itself as.

I had some serious digestive thyroid and hormonal issues that Paleo did not solve at all. When I figured out that a great deal of Paleo approved food was giving me problems, I started questioning the wisdom against all grains, dairy and legumes. I don't want to not eat something that I have no problems with and that I enjoy a great deal just because its not "Paleo." And I'm not going to stuff myself with "Paleo" foods like coconut, kale and cauliflower when they make me want to curl up and die from the pain they cause. I don't see the logic in that.

Still, I only have 1-2 servings of grains a day - rice or masa. And I do make some gluten free oat bars once in a while that are lightly sweetened with maple syrup. 80% of my diet is still Paleo and I do think Paleo is the right approach: eating animals is the most important thing, and the closer you are to the earth with your food, the better. We really do need to shift the focus in nutrition away from grains in the US. I also greatly appreciate the skepticism over popular medical advice - stay out of the sun! eat less meat! pills cure everything!, etc.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on June 09, 2012
at 04:07 AM

+++ whenever I see recipes for "paleo" cauliflower "rice", I can't even imagine what that would do to my stomach. Real rice is so much gentler.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on June 09, 2012
at 09:08 PM

Lol, but cauliflower "rice" is PK! (Paleo Korrect, Paleo Kosher, Paleo Kool...)

01eb62476756ea980bf8fc048179d4bc

(374)

on June 09, 2012
at 07:40 PM

I agree. Cauliflower feels like steel wool on the insides.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on September 10, 2013
at 10:31 AM

@Bread-Eating Beelzebub cauliflower rice is delicious, doesn't do anything bad to my stomach, try it before you bash it.

9
F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on June 08, 2012
at 09:42 PM

I think there may be some bias in the way we all talk about our diets. I totally get when folks need to be strict for health reasons, but the rest of us are all at varying degrees of compliance/adherence.

Chris Kresser nailed it when he called it a "Paleo template". Meaning there are some boundaries and depending on your individual needs, resources, and desires, your diet will not look like the diet of the Paleo next to you. It's kind of silly to compare one version of Paleo to another.

As someone who writes about this stuff, I certainly don't talk as much about my off-plan food choices. Maybe we should more often, to give a more accurate portrait of what Paleo looks like in real life. It would be fun to see a week's worth of food diary from all the big wigs, like Sisson, Wolf, Whole9, NomNomPaleo, etc. I wonder how many off-plan choices we'd see and how often?

In a philosophical way, it's sad that it's not easier to eat this way, that we have to expend so much energy just trying to stay within Paleo parameters. I wish it were easier, for all of our sakes.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on June 09, 2012
at 02:53 PM

Ha! Even better! Make everyone else show their cards! ;)

01eb62476756ea980bf8fc048179d4bc

(374)

on June 09, 2012
at 12:08 AM

Kresser was talking about doing that! It would be awesome.

01eb62476756ea980bf8fc048179d4bc

(374)

on June 09, 2012
at 12:21 PM

I mean he was talking about having people like sisson, wolf, etc. record their eating.

D63a9a7789b948a1e88647f6c0e504ca

(1453)

on June 09, 2012
at 06:35 PM

Sisson has done that in the past, I remember reading the post or posts.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on June 09, 2012
at 12:49 AM

My guess is Kresser would be pretty unremarkable. He'd make us all look bad! ;) But just the act of recording a diet for the world to see and judge would make them choose more wisely, no?

Medium avatar

(19479)

on June 09, 2012
at 09:10 PM

Karen, I've been food logging for the past few weeks. If you promise a "full divulge" I will do the same!

01eb62476756ea980bf8fc048179d4bc

(374)

on June 09, 2012
at 07:38 PM

Yeah but if I remember correctly he only posted one day. It would be great to see everything that take in for like a week or two.

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on June 12, 2012
at 11:33 PM

@FED - Sure! Let's do dis! Just let me get back in gear from my weekend at the coast soaked in ice cream and fish n' chips... ;)

6
B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 08, 2012
at 08:49 PM

I'm not paleo anymore, because I don't believe it is optimal and it is not sustainable for me as a student. Too much work cooking stuff, and if I fast I get issues.

0e395acc856e3353f3f5892e6b09b0e7

(1227)

on June 08, 2012
at 09:56 PM

I've enjoyed your young voice on this blog and hope you stay tuned and do whatever works for youl

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on June 08, 2012
at 09:34 PM

Can I have your gold badge then?

E3575e92da86cbf4d7803d3aa09f962a

(35)

on June 08, 2012
at 09:32 PM

So what do you do now instead?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 09, 2012
at 06:59 AM

@DJDeeJay Just added dairy, sugar, honey, haagen-dazs, coffee, chocolate, and I'm not eating veggies but fruit instead. It's still pretty close but with sugar and ice cream I can't call myself paleo :) @Karen haha NO! @Doris Thanks Doris!

6
26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21

(5798)

on June 08, 2012
at 05:02 AM

I strive for full paleo ( no dairy, grains, potatoes, sugar, vegetable oils, legumes) whenever possible. I have been striving for full-paleo, since 2010. As a recovering alcoholic, and as someone who struggles with extreme anxiety, fatigue, and malnutrition from gluten-intolerance, I find that when I am fully "paleo-in the strict-whole30-sense", I feel tons better- almost like a new person.

I do like to eat sweet potatoes, at least once a week, to get a bit of starchy sweetness, but when I get lax and start thinking a few nights of corn chips and cheese aren't going to hurt me (every week), I can see the cumulative ill-effects on my waist-line, and general well-being.

I love cooking healthy food: meat, veggies, and the very occasional fruit dessert. Eating out is still fun, but it's expensive, and I am disappointed when I pay to eat out and can make the dish 100X better at home. We tend to have a lot of dinner parties at my place, instead.

I have been trying to think of food more as fuel and nutrition, rather than entertainment. By doing a few weeks of eating strictly unseasoned meat and heavy green veg stew, I realized that I often eat more for flavor than actual hunger.

I don't hate food, I love it! But, I think my mental priorities have changed: my every day food is about nourishing my weak body, so that I can grow stronger and accomplish more. Party food for me is for special occasions, where anything gluten-free goes, but I still can't really enjoy it as much. The co-workers pity me, because I can't eat cake. They blink, uncomprehendingly, when I say it REALLY doesn't bother me- I just don't want it.

A LONG, SUNNY, WALK IN THE WOODS= 20 SLICES OF CAKE TO ME.

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on June 08, 2012
at 08:28 PM

"A LONG, SUNNY, WALK IN THE WOODS = 20 SLICES OF CAKE TO ME." RIGHT ON! I wouldn't say it's 20 slices for me, but it's good for at least 2 or 3! ;)

3b3a449b6705e9ec8b141d0bd07c1a64

(1489)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:27 AM

"Eating out is still fun, but it's expensive, and I am disappointed when I pay to eat out and can make the dish 100X better at home." YES! I have come to realise this

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21

(5798)

on June 08, 2012
at 05:27 AM

P.S. I'm not trying to come across as a "hardcore Paleo fascist". I really mean it- there is a reason why the "paleo" way of eating in the past few decades have not recommended grains, dairy, sugar, and vegetable oils. I don't care, at all, what anyone else eats, because I'll probably die of cancer (due to over a decade of smoking and drinking), but I do want to make the best of my time here, with my husband, especially since I have lost four people I care deeply about in the past few years, due to disease and depression. I will probably lose 3 more, next year.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 08, 2012
at 08:46 PM

Yes, I agree with that last line. Depends what kind of cake though ;)

6
E95216c62a14d21c371fcbf2fed8469b

(1867)

on June 08, 2012
at 04:41 AM

I've never been quite paleo to begin with. I find the research fascinating and the discussions more intellectual than anything I ever found on other boards.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on June 09, 2012
at 08:47 PM

Eating meat and staying active is paleo enough for me. True Paleos put too much faith in Gary Taubes and too little faith in hunt-and-gather behavior.

5
7660f5a0ec906d3922d79b20f3434ecc

(788)

on June 08, 2012
at 11:33 AM

I don't think its too restrictive, its just a starting point. No one (in my opinion) believes paleo is the end all be all diet for every human on the planet. I certainly do not. People are different and different things work for them. Some people thrive on dairy others do not. Some people thrive on low carb others feel like they are dying on it. Some people can't eat fruit without binging others have no issues with it.

Everyone is different and that is why self experimentation (n=1) is part of Paleo. Paleo is a starting point for those who need it but it is not a set of unbreakable laws nor is it perfect.

5
F92a0a13e601a6d302e44a4d4e0e3b91

on June 08, 2012
at 10:20 AM

Having started with Michael-Pollan style 'real foods', gone through WAPF and into primal/paleo I still swing between completely no-grain and a tiny bit of sourdough bread, mostly as a vehicle for delicious grass-fed butter. Sometimes I think I should be stricter but I've tested negative for celiac, have no autoimmune issues, and though my gut is wobbly on occasion, going gluten free didn't seem to make any difference. But I'd never go back to lots of starch/grains, even prepared WAPF-style - my rosacea has cleared up, my weight dropped a little (I wasn't overweight to begin with) and stabilised with no hunger issues. All in all I'm happy being mostly paleo, with an odd bit of sourdough and other 'stretches' including daily dark chocolate and a glass of wine with dinner and a small amount of dairy. For me it's a more workable, long-term strategy than trying to be stricter and stricter all the time, not great for me as I have a history of eating disorders. This way I feel I am eating well but enjoying food still without becoming too obsessive.

5
246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21430)

on June 08, 2012
at 03:31 AM

I've shifted towards primal. I do have a few corn tortillas maybe once a month, but otherwise, it's paleo + dairy.

With the exception of corn, I'm grain-free.

Or the occasional haggis (oats), that I eat maybe twice a year.

4
7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on June 08, 2012
at 02:30 AM

I'm totally grain, legume, and dairy free with rare treats of gluten-free cookies made with tapioca and rice flours, dark chocolate, tamari, and alcohol (in small doses). I don't drink coffee, but a few times a week I'll have tea or kombucha.

I am not low-carb: I have about 100-150 g carbs per day, in the form of root veggies and fruit, depending on the season. In fact, I try to eat as seasonally as possible, except I regularly eat bananas for convenience.

I'm only this strict because that's what my body needs. I hope some day to add back fermented or fresh dairy, but that's not in the cards for now. I tried adding back rice and corn at one point, and I can tolerate a bit of rice and certified gluten-free and nixtamalized corn (shared mills lead to too much cross-contamination for me), but I don't feel good when I eat them, so I only eat them very rarely.

I like that many of the people in this community use the strict guidelines as a starting point, and then experiment and expand as fits their individual needs. It keeps things sane.

242b6f51761717721115fd464834456b

(160)

on June 09, 2012
at 01:54 PM

I like to hear that there are other people out there who enjoy eating fruit. Reading some of the posts around here, you'd think fruit was the devil!

2
A994080d499afca98cdc9de896701ebd

on June 09, 2012
at 08:02 PM

Paleo nazis would not be happy with me. Even though I eat lots of protein and I'm not afraid of fat, I eat high carb, including legumes and some sprouted grains. And I don't stress about sugar too much.

I'm a foodie first. And I'm european. Food is part of my culture and very important to me. Going to a restaurant is a social event where my friends and I enjoy good food and wine and talk and laugh until it's almost midnight.

So, yes, I'm not strictly so-called "paleo". I was for a while and it was very useful for figuring out to what kind of foods I react. But I really appreciate stress-free evenings and artisan foods. I couldn't live without those aspects in my life. There is no fast food, no crap food, no processed foods though. Foods like sweetbread, foie gras and veal tongue: oh yes please. But they might come with a piece of sourdough bread. You better cover your eyes!

Medium avatar

(10611)

on June 09, 2012
at 08:59 PM

I'm here for what paleo affirms not what it denies. You can never be perfect enough. But I'm always disappointed to see such strictness regarding food and such laxness regarding activity. It's all about nomadic life folks!

2
A7768b6c6be7f5d6acc76e5efa66464c

on June 08, 2012
at 09:48 PM

It seems that there's less and less Paleo people around.

I challenge the premise of the question. I don't think enough data is available to support this assertion, since the only relevant data (here on PH, anyway) I can think of are the posts to PH, which represent only a self-selected group of people and not necessarily a representative sample of eaters in the community.

I could just as easily claim there are seems to be more and more paleo people around, since more people know about it.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on June 09, 2012
at 01:13 PM

Not just PH. A multitude of other health communities would indicate that people are switching from Paleo and Primal to "quite heavily modified Paleo."

2
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on June 08, 2012
at 02:38 PM

No grains, no legumes, no casein. In the summer time I get tempted to do smoothies with whey protein because I don't want to heat up the house, and butter is great, but casein seems to be the big bad thing in milk. I have no interest in wheat. I still like rice, but I've only had it occasionally. People laugh when I tell them rice is like a drug to me. I think I'm still pretty strict. I'm happy to go to a social event and just not eat. Probably drives some people nuts, but I don't see much up side on conformity.

4929a87e3f7438f18a0afbdde291ed5e

(752)

on June 09, 2012
at 02:30 AM

+1 for not eating at social events. I agree with you 100% on the conformity issue. Others are very uncomfortable with this - I'm fine with it. It's their problem.

2
01adafcb4dd4147c6af543f61eee60a8

on June 08, 2012
at 11:07 AM

Im paleo plus I.F 6days a week. Monday I eat whatever I want.

2
7e65e7c3794834b3526b77f92cabee55

(214)

on June 08, 2012
at 07:34 AM

I flip flop. It is mostly due to social factors. I enjoy the diet but not the isolation that comes with sticking with it strictly.

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 08, 2012
at 12:06 PM

...Yeah, I sometimes make compromises and pay the consequences. I'll never forget the look on that girl's face when I said; "no thanks I don't eat stuff like that" in response to the huckleberry pie she surprised me with.

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 08, 2012
at 12:00 PM

@Carl D-I wish it were always that simple but I sometimes (often) go to other people's houses. We are watching PPV fights or the Superbowl or whatever; "oh, no thanks I won't have any spaghetti or pasta" or "no thanks those loaded potato skins have dairy on them" or "sorry that fried chicken has wheat breading and I just got tested for celiac due to my extreme reaction to wheat" or "you guys are ordering pizza? Get me that new Dominoes gluten-free crust at half the size and twice the price as the pizzas your getting for everyone else."

4929a87e3f7438f18a0afbdde291ed5e

(752)

on June 09, 2012
at 02:28 AM

I used to feel isolated because I am strict Paleo (health issues) and I realized it was my friends who were uncomfortable watching me either (a) not eat; or (b) eat something really fatty while they pick at their salads with ranch dressing on the side with a diet coke. I decided to let them feel uncomfortable and to just sit there with a club soda with lime rather than eat sub-par meat and spend money at a restaurant when I could spend it on some pastured eggs and feel 100% better then next day. Life is ALL about choices - social or otherwise.

599feb9ad716266e8eb5030cd82d5dcd

(229)

on June 08, 2012
at 10:19 AM

I don't see how you could be isolated really. When everyone is eating pasta, you eat pork chops (or whatever), simple!

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on June 09, 2012
at 05:47 PM

I'm lucky I have friends who don't give a fuck :)

2
7bcdcce584eb132e4c06b8ad2b1d22cc

on June 08, 2012
at 03:03 AM

I'm VLC at less than 25 grams a day. I do have heavy cream in my coffee, but no other dairy. I don't eat legumes or wheat. I see myself staying as VLC as I am until I lose some weight. Then I intend to add some yams. Make of it what you will. I think of myself as 80/20 since I tend to follow the primal branch of the family.

599feb9ad716266e8eb5030cd82d5dcd

(229)

on June 08, 2012
at 09:50 AM

How long have you been vlc, and have you lost weight yet? Also coffee for some people can hinder weight loss by increasing insulin levels, just something to watch out for.

2
Medium avatar

(10663)

on June 08, 2012
at 02:15 AM

I guess I would put myself on the stricter end of the Paleo spectrum.

A majority of my calories come from meat or seafood. Then fats (coconut oil, butter, olive oil). Then veggies (including starchy veggies). Then nuts a few times a week. Sometimes I'll eat dairy because I know I tolerate it. Very rarely do I eat fruits; although, it being almost summertime, I'm tempted to buy some mangoes.

I hardly cheat. I only go out to eat at restaurants two or three times a month and even then I will stick to the most Paleo-friendly entrees available. I do frequent bars and will enjoy a glass of vodka tonic or a shot of tequila or two (or three).

I am considering adding back white rice into my diet partly because I'm Asian and rice is always there. Taunting me.

1
D613cc4b9409009d5735a23e9fec5886

(143)

on June 08, 2012
at 08:48 PM

I eat Paleo about 90% of the time. I do have a little heavy cream in my coffee and a daily packet of Sweet N Low seems to be something I can't quite give up. I do not eat grains, cheese, potatoes, rice, etc.

1
A2b9075bd176ca2912743e4df1e4af49

(146)

on June 08, 2012
at 08:40 PM

I'm still 100% paleo, yes occasionally I cheat, but not much, and its usually, dark chocolate, raw honey, and fruit...

A2b9075bd176ca2912743e4df1e4af49

(146)

on June 10, 2012
at 03:44 AM

100% 99% of the time

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on June 09, 2012
at 02:46 AM

so.... not 100% then?

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 08, 2012
at 02:41 PM

How many of you are actually Paleo still?

Quite a lot I would imagine. Probably not so many of us are followers of Cordain's "The Paleo Diet". I would guess that the people here who are using a strict "paleo" diet are mostly following what people used to call a "stone age diet" or "caveman diet" before Cordain's book came out.

1
Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 08, 2012
at 09:05 AM

I consider my diet mostly paleo. I do eat aged cheddar though, and use coconut oil and butter for cooking, and small amounts of glucose for sweetner. I certainly dont eat any grains, only seeds I have are occasional nuts, and my starch/carb intake is probably lower than an actual hunter gatherer (for my own health reasons).

So not entirely paleo, but I doubt many people were ever strictly 100% paleo. Even if they were, in the pop sense, its unlikely there nutritional intake was all that comparable to paleo eaters. And I am not trying to eat for some "asthetic" of being natural, I am trying to eat optimal foods for my body, which happen to be largely grounded in evolution..

To see what I mean - check this article out:

http://www.answers.com/topic/stone-age-nutrition-the-original-human-diet

What I try and emulate most about paleo eating is minimal anti-nutrient foods such as no grains, low sugar fruits and other aspects of wild nutrition, rather than merely imitating the food groups in the broad simple sense.

A good example is farmed beef. Farmed beef, grass-fed or not, is high in saturated fat, low in other fats compared to wild animals. Wild land animals have about 1/3 sat fat, 1/3 mono, 1/3 poly. Its a nice even spread...

Imitating that profile, and the profile of fruit when I eat it (low sugar, higher anti-oxidants and vitamins), and if I ever eat starchy carbs, not that I have been, that too (lower starch root veges versus potatoes etc) - so that my diet is roughly nutrionally like paleo eating.

Particularly when it comes to fats. Fats are supposed to make up a majority of our caloric intake, but if that fat has little resemblance to out anscestors fats then we are missing the boat. Merely adding rendered animal fats, butter, coconut oil etc, isnt going to end up with a similar profile unless we are using wild game animal fats...

Merely eating modern whole foods, as if it was wild whole foods doesnt really end up with anything like the same nutritional profile, not just in terms of how farm animals are fed and omega balances, but also vitamin intake, sugar levels, and sat/mono/poly proportions. Not to mention modern stuff like seperated fats and oils...

Id eat 100% game and wild caught fish, wild picked berries, nuts, sprouts, greens and roots, roasted over a fire, but thats not really viable or practical for me! (plus I dont live next to a wild forest)... so I try and balance my fat proportions instead and other aspects instead. Its a balancing act for sure, given the differences.

From what ive been reading on research on what we ate during that era, wild foods versus modern foods, emulating the exact balance of macro and micro nutrients is alot trickier than merely eating more meat and less carbs and avoiding table sugar and processed foods....Mostly because 95% of modern veg, fruit and farmed meat are all nutrionally different from their wild counterparts. Short of still eating 100% wild caught foods, its difficult emulating those balances

(see article linked above for the sort of details I am refering to)

my 2c...

TLDR - is merely eating roughly similar foods, but modernised whole foods rather than wild caught or found food really paleo anyway? It should not be about an asthetic IMO, being paleo, or being some kind of romantic food idealist, but rather getting a similar macro and micro nutrient intake and not eating foods which we have less time to adapt too (like grains)..

599feb9ad716266e8eb5030cd82d5dcd

(229)

on June 08, 2012
at 10:25 AM

I agree that sometimes I enjoy the aesthetic of thinking myself as more primal or whatever, but of course that's not the case. From what I understand the general philosophy of this diet is to be as close as we can to the diet our ancestors ate. That would be extremely difficult or expensive and is not a viable way for most people to eat, so we do our best by adding things like butter, lard, coconut oil, supplements etc. It's by no means ideal, but pretty much the best most of us are going to get. Plus, organic grass fed meat is not that expensive if you have your priorities in order.

1
D5d982a898721d3392c85f951d0bf0aa

(2417)

on June 08, 2012
at 02:27 AM

Are there really all that many people on here recommending WAPF-grains? It seems to me more that the few odd questions stand out, and that a lot of WAPF eaters end up paleo and/or have a sense of camaraderie with the paleo folks.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on June 08, 2012
at 02:44 AM

I think it's the other way around - a lot of Paleo eaters end up WAPF. But yeah, I agree that the two groups aren't at odds. Not at odds like Paleo and 30bad followers are anyway.

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 08, 2012
at 11:51 AM

I think I've seen more WAPFers go Paleo than the other way around. Unless you consider a person who on has ever eaten a little fermented dairy to be WAPF.

4b5be253ac1981c690689cab7e4bf06d

(3043)

on June 08, 2012
at 03:21 AM

I dont see a lot of WAPF grains, I see more of the fermented foods and raw dairy. (Both of which I eat because they are delicious!)

0
Medium avatar

on April 09, 2014
at 08:01 PM

I can honestly say I am fully Paleo/Caveman after a few years of strictly following Paleo. I do have the ocasional time when I will slip but that is very rare. I am 34 years old, a former pro athlete and now I compete in CF at a high level and I have never had this amount of energy and quick recovery time. Feel great and will continue to be Strict Paleo.

Great Question! Thanks for the topic.

0
6324165a7d1ab74b752f034800944be9

on April 09, 2014
at 06:16 PM

I am 99% paleo excluding a few squares of dark chocolate and a limited amount of dairy a week (very limited or I get gut issues). I feel downright ill if I go back to grains or processed foods.

0
9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

on April 09, 2014
at 12:12 PM

I am "still" Paleo after 2 years and don't really see me ever changing my diet again (I'm 44).

I do have a few "cheats", I have beer, wine and the occasional cocktail as these have never adversely affected me from a dietary perspective. Also I have never had a problem with dairy so I have that occasionally (primarily hard cheese and yogurt). But besides that it's all Paleo.

I started out very strict Paleo (essentially an elimination diet) and added back one thing at a time to figure out what was ok and what I had a problem with. I think that I am sensitive to gluten, beans, bad oils, and too much sugar. All of these things ruin my digestion, cause me to gain weight, cause inflammation, mood and energy swings, poor sleep, etc. So I really have no intention of ever eating them again.

I know people that have no problem with these things like my wife, and all I can say is more power to them. If you can eat whatever you want and you feel great then go for it. One word of caution, all of the symptoms that led me to pursue a Paleo diet slowly built up throughout my 30's. When I was 30 I felt immortal and could eat or do anything and always recover immediately etc. This slowly changed through my 30's until when I was 40 I was a bit of a mess, overweight, chronic inflammation, skin conditions, poor sleep, etc. Changing diets reversed all of these things almost overnight. So people who think the whole Paleo thing is "too restrictive" or "pointless" might change their tune when they get into their 30's and 40's.

0
Medium avatar

on April 08, 2014
at 10:09 PM

I followed a very strict paleo template for 2 years and it wreaked havoc on my gut!! I am now eating mostly grassfed organic meats and veggies but drastically changed my approach by adding in rice (Jasmine ONLY--low fermentation potential) and homemade yogurt and hard cheeses. Feeling so much better with these changes.

0
651b74dfbf378ac90ff3eb183f54944e

(351)

on September 10, 2013
at 01:06 PM

As a teenager, I do my best, but when I go out to eat with my friends I stick to Paleo-ish and don't worry about toxic oils and gluten in the soy sauce. I weigh the drawbacks and benefits and cheat when I feel I will really enjoy it(e.g. a slice of my gourmet banana chocolate peanut butter creme birthday cake :).

0
6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

on September 10, 2013
at 06:53 AM

Dairy has always made me feel ill. No one drinks milk in this house, for example. I don't eat grains. So yes I am non dairy, non grains. Works fine.

0
Fb10cf8e5dbac271762e13721181d5dc

(453)

on June 09, 2012
at 07:26 PM

I'm GAPSing right now, since regular paleo (which, admittedly, I was somewhat lax about) hadn't helped my acne (though the other benefits were great!) I haven't added beans, so I'm actually still pretty close to a sort of starch-free paleo framework, with "cheats" (treats? for my own sanity, I try not to think of them as cheats) that include, you know, the nut-flour-based honey-sweetened baked goods I have a weakness for and, thankfully, are expensive and time consuming so I don't have them too often.

Previously, I was mostly paleo but would have gluten-free replacements occasionally, because cake/cookies are still delicious to me and never let me down, damn it. The GF snacks are obviously out now, though. Post-GAPS I'll probably continue focusing on paleo/primal type foods, or maybe something WAPF-ish (if I can do a couple vegetarian meals every week and save money that way, great. Meat is my favorite forever, but it's expensive) for the majority of what I eat, but since I want to travel I'm kind of hoping that, while I'll still avoid it when possible, occasional gluten will no longer send me spiraling through a mind fog and into a depression. Beforehand I was convinced gluten was probably horrible for everyone, but GAPS kind of gave me the mindset that a healing diet should improve tolerance of foods, not keep it the same and definitely not create more avoidance. A little flexibility within a whole-foods framework doesn't hurt in the social department.

0
Dabdb4e771b72dff14709b0258b207a7

on June 09, 2012
at 04:42 PM

Staying pretty strictly Whole30 style Paleo is the only way I can avoid severe migraines and insomnia. I experimented with many different diets before figuring this out including WAPF. Maybe once a month I'll have some corn tortillas or rice noodle. The corn tortillas don't bother me if it stays at once a month, more than that and ouch! The rice noodles bother me after only one meal but sometimes I just gotta have proper Pho. Made the mistake of having coconut milk ice-cream a while back. The closest I've been to a migraine since I switched my diet almost a year ago. Terrifying.

0
474ae29b80569199c6589e879e6cd7d1

on June 08, 2012
at 10:10 AM

I find it very easy to include the right things and eat good meals at home and work. I kind of suck at omitting the wrong things, mainly because my willpower to say no is remarkably low. To be at a cocktail reception and ignore the little finger foods they bring by, not a skill I have learned as of this point in life.

0
7e1433afbb06c318c4d90860d493c49d

(5959)

on June 08, 2012
at 02:45 AM

I was WAPF before I was paleo, and there's no way I'll ever go back to eating that much starch, because starch is the one thing I need to avoid. So, I eat fruit, veggies, meat, and dairy (cream, butter, yogurt, and limited amounts of cheese.)

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