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How long will it be possible to eat paleo?

Commented on February 06, 2014
Created February 05, 2014 at 3:06 PM

With the way all the big company giants are pushing GMO's and no labelling it will only be a matter of time (in my opinion) that all we can eat is GMO's. GMO is being trialled and obviously farmed fish already exists and is very dangerous.

Animals are given drugs etc .. loads of pesticides are in use and the level allowed to be used has been raised I think.

How long do you guys feel it will be til paleo is just impossible to continue or very very very expensive.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 06, 2014
at 03:00 AM

some where between 2.5 million more years and 0 more years. If you are a pure "reenactment" -- then there are no "paleo" food keft.

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on February 06, 2014
at 12:36 AM

so far I have only eaten crickets and fly larvae in pecorino cheese. The former are good, the latter delicious but maybe the pecorino helped. Not sure how to address this. Wheat berries are very unappetizing, but surely mankind managed to produce a lot of appetizing wheat based options! The strong points of this manure process are the off chart nutrients, and the fact that these arthropods are relatively easy to purge (you have to eat the whole animal, guts and all). There is the great efficiency, fast crops, reduction in CO2 and methane, and fertilizer recovery.

Medium avatar

(624)

on February 05, 2014
at 11:51 PM

I'm not so sure this impending collapse will heal up so quickly. If such doomsday scenarios are accompanied by a mass die off that reduces the human population by 30-50% then sure, we can rebuild pretty quickly as long as nature remains in balance. If we just get more and more poor people reproducing like rats, things could go downhill for a good several generations. We're not just talking about the collapse of a single nation or government, we're talking about something a little more sinister.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 05, 2014
at 11:51 PM

Agrobacterium scares the hell out of me with its horizontal gene transfers. That stuff is out in the wild now reproducing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrobacterium#Agrobacterium_in_humans

The better our genetic technology becomes at increasing the fitness function, the greater the risk of those genes transferring to weeds which would then outcompete crops.

Medium avatar

(624)

on February 05, 2014
at 11:47 PM

This is my only real concern with GMOs. I think we can all make rational decisions about what we put into our bodies but the fact is that we're literally dabbling in the work of gods now. We're working with powers beyond our comprehension. The ripple effects will be a big part of that whole doomsday scenario I like to ramble about. Imagine if some unexpectedly detrimental gene started spreading like wildfire through an important rainforest species or something...

Medium avatar

(238)

on February 05, 2014
at 11:46 PM

Please report back to the thread when you have taste tested this item. Curious to know what you think.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on February 05, 2014
at 07:47 PM

Help my roses out and eat some of these stupid deer. They're too picky to eat grass. Only the best shrubs and garden plants for them. While you're at it take all the stupid rabbits too.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on February 05, 2014
at 05:50 PM

Yeah, as it was with every other crop eaten by humans today, when they were bred into existence. None of them existed in paleolithic times. The world didn't end back then when we invented broccoli or cabbage (both descendant from Brassica Oleracea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassica_oleracea) or domesticated cows (descendant from Aurochs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurochs), I think we'll be fine.

Medium avatar

(238)

on February 05, 2014
at 05:31 PM

However the ultimate change to the biology of the land and other species is really unknown.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on February 05, 2014
at 05:21 PM

Here's an example of how genetic engineers from Ohio State University created a genetically modified version of the Cassava plant which contains no cyanide (cyanide occurs naturally in cassava). This enables many poor people in Sub-Saharan Africa to grow cassava without fear of accidental cyanide poisoning. Eliminating poisonous substances from our food is clearly a huge benefit of genetic engineering, among many others. Study: http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/cassava.htm

Medium avatar

(10611)

on February 05, 2014
at 05:18 PM

And I'm typing on case-in-point right now. Sadly these gadgets are making us too sedentary. And in the apocalypse who will give us the most dependable wireless connection. T-Mobile?

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on February 05, 2014
at 05:16 PM

I agree with the GMO statement. They need not be bad for us and can definitely be beneficial. It essentially allows us to harness the power of genetic engineering to make precise changes to our foods to make them nutritionally better, more resistant to disease, higher yielding, and with less naturally-occurring toxins. We have done something similar through selective breeding for thousands of years except we have used random mutations instead of precise ones.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on February 05, 2014
at 05:03 PM

Indeed, paleo is not a historical re-enactment. We all use technology.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on February 05, 2014
at 05:02 PM

Yum! You are lucky.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on February 05, 2014
at 04:59 PM

The trouble with social collapse is that society rebounds within 10 years. Look at the USSR. It won't be a Mad Max world for very long at all.

GMO sadly is used as patent protection, they advertise feeding the planet and increasing nutrition, but instead they lock farmers in to both their pesticides and their seeds, and prevent them from growing new seed. It's a big scam brought on by greed, while they advertise humanitarian reasons, and sell scarcity.

Science isn't evil, for-profit corporations that choose to cut every corner and maximize profit are.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on February 05, 2014
at 03:52 PM

Sad part is that I moved. But a lot of what I listed is available if you have the money. I was out there for a visit last week, eating all that stuff, including some hand-dug hardshell clams. All with fresh black truffles.

Medium avatar

(624)

on February 05, 2014
at 03:45 PM

You're lucky to live where you do. The majority of the human population is concentrated in dense urban and suburban jungles.

2c612e3bf373ce2fca02eb2652e8b632

(0)

on February 05, 2014
at 03:26 PM

well said. I have a weird feeling that organic farming is gonna be destroyed by followers of GMO's and the environmental damage may be too much to be able to farm organically. I could also see a law where no organic food is allowed to be grown.

2c612e3bf373ce2fca02eb2652e8b632

(0)

on February 05, 2014
at 03:20 PM

true! But really thinking what if no one does? Or if very few do the cost will be through the roof.

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7 Answers

0
56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on February 05, 2014
at 11:03 PM

There are still unexploited resources. Black soldier fly larvae and earthworms can turn manure into 33% meat by weight, and 67% finished compost (earthworm castings, actually) And it is meat that is not only truly paleo, it blows away any ruminant in nutrient content.

Medium avatar

(238)

on February 05, 2014
at 11:46 PM

Please report back to the thread when you have taste tested this item. Curious to know what you think.

0
Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on February 05, 2014
at 10:43 PM

I've read that you can copyright a seed, open-pollinate, then sue farmers for growing it without your permission. Unless we get some Paleo lobbyists in gov, it seems like we'll continue to see more and more GMO naturally, regardless of whether or not they can increase yield.

4 years ago, > 80% of the wild canola plants growing along roadsides in North Dakota tested positive for genetic modification. It doesn't take long.

Medium avatar

(624)

on February 05, 2014
at 11:47 PM

This is my only real concern with GMOs. I think we can all make rational decisions about what we put into our bodies but the fact is that we're literally dabbling in the work of gods now. We're working with powers beyond our comprehension. The ripple effects will be a big part of that whole doomsday scenario I like to ramble about. Imagine if some unexpectedly detrimental gene started spreading like wildfire through an important rainforest species or something...

0
2c612e3bf373ce2fca02eb2652e8b632

on February 05, 2014
at 06:29 PM

Organic grassfed beef bones are getting harder to buy for me now! How many grass fed animals are there? How many more will there be? Also that will effect organ meats too! I think it will be harder to raise grass fed animals ..

Medium avatar

(10611)

on February 05, 2014
at 07:47 PM

Help my roses out and eat some of these stupid deer. They're too picky to eat grass. Only the best shrubs and garden plants for them. While you're at it take all the stupid rabbits too.

0
Medium avatar

on February 05, 2014
at 04:02 PM

First: GMO foods aren't always absolutely dangerous. Just because Paleo man didn't have access doesn't make them evil. That said, some of them definitely are dangerous and the industry needs to get more scientific about the nutritional and toxic results of their science. They also pose a threat to the balance of nature as the genes we put into our crops find their way into wild species.

Second: I don't think it's necessarily inevitable. The curve isn't always consistent. Big Agra, GMO, and industrial food production is on the rise at the moment but increased public awareness could change things. People speak with their wallets. If they're willing to pay more for something better, it will always be available.

Third: I'm afraid I'm one of those guys who believes we're on the brink of total socio-industrial collapse. It may happen in 5 years, maybe 100, but there are just too many people with too high of resource demands, plus technology, government, terrorism, etc... Point number three could fill a book. Big Agra can't keep pushing their agenda in a collapsing society, though we may ultimately become more dependent upon their innovations if the economy keeps sliding.

Miscellaneous Musings:

GMO has the potential to make food more healthy or useful. Imagine a strain of grain that was as benign as rice and as nutritious as a sweet potato but grew as efficiently as dwarven wheat. Imagine a sweet potato that could be used to produce fuel. Imagine an avocado or an egg with a better fatty acid profile (less o6, more o3). These are things GMO could achieve. Not that there aren't inherent dangers in these noble pursuits as well.

Also, I reject the notion that eating a healthy "paleo" diet means total avoidance of neolithic innovation. It's a useful starting point but we have to figure things out for ourselves. We'll never achieve a perfect paleo diet and if we did, it may not be optimally healthy.

Science is not evil. Neolithic is not evil. Paleo is a nice template though.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on February 05, 2014
at 05:16 PM

I agree with the GMO statement. They need not be bad for us and can definitely be beneficial. It essentially allows us to harness the power of genetic engineering to make precise changes to our foods to make them nutritionally better, more resistant to disease, higher yielding, and with less naturally-occurring toxins. We have done something similar through selective breeding for thousands of years except we have used random mutations instead of precise ones.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on February 05, 2014
at 04:59 PM

The trouble with social collapse is that society rebounds within 10 years. Look at the USSR. It won't be a Mad Max world for very long at all.

GMO sadly is used as patent protection, they advertise feeding the planet and increasing nutrition, but instead they lock farmers in to both their pesticides and their seeds, and prevent them from growing new seed. It's a big scam brought on by greed, while they advertise humanitarian reasons, and sell scarcity.

Science isn't evil, for-profit corporations that choose to cut every corner and maximize profit are.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on February 05, 2014
at 05:18 PM

And I'm typing on case-in-point right now. Sadly these gadgets are making us too sedentary. And in the apocalypse who will give us the most dependable wireless connection. T-Mobile?

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on February 05, 2014
at 05:03 PM

Indeed, paleo is not a historical re-enactment. We all use technology.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on February 05, 2014
at 05:21 PM

Here's an example of how genetic engineers from Ohio State University created a genetically modified version of the Cassava plant which contains no cyanide (cyanide occurs naturally in cassava). This enables many poor people in Sub-Saharan Africa to grow cassava without fear of accidental cyanide poisoning. Eliminating poisonous substances from our food is clearly a huge benefit of genetic engineering, among many others. Study: http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/cassava.htm

0
Medium avatar

(10611)

on February 05, 2014
at 03:28 PM

Think Salish. Where will I get the clams, shrimp, crabs, oysters, salmon and venison that should constitute 50% of my diet every day? You can do it anywhere but it's easier to do it locally. I wouldn't sweat the other 50% so much. It's relatively easy to get the mushrooms, seaweed and berries.

I think you'll always be able to do it. The wild habitat for these foods is growing not shrinking. Those surly deer in the yard aren't GMO.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on February 05, 2014
at 03:52 PM

Sad part is that I moved. But a lot of what I listed is available if you have the money. I was out there for a visit last week, eating all that stuff, including some hand-dug hardshell clams. All with fresh black truffles.

Medium avatar

(624)

on February 05, 2014
at 03:45 PM

You're lucky to live where you do. The majority of the human population is concentrated in dense urban and suburban jungles.

0
Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on February 05, 2014
at 03:19 PM

Solutions: Buy wild caught sardines, herring, whiting or any other cheap fish, they won't be running out any time soon and they're too cheap to farm for a profit. Buy Organic, which has actually been on the rise, if you're scared of GMOs for whatever reason. Start your own veggie garden. No mammal or bird for human consumption has yet to be genetically modified, probably won't happen so you're safe there, but you can buy that organic if you're worried about that too since organic animals are not given anti-biotics or hormones and their feed is pesticide free, GMO free, and free from industrial fertilizers. Keep in perspective however, that these are first-world problems, in other countries just having food to put on the table is a blessing.

2c612e3bf373ce2fca02eb2652e8b632

(0)

on February 05, 2014
at 03:26 PM

well said. I have a weird feeling that organic farming is gonna be destroyed by followers of GMO's and the environmental damage may be too much to be able to farm organically. I could also see a law where no organic food is allowed to be grown.

0
Medium avatar

(238)

on February 05, 2014
at 03:18 PM

Depends on the willingness for people to farm local small operations and not make a lot of money. It is hard for some long time farmers to resist selling land for new home developments. Until then eat local.

2c612e3bf373ce2fca02eb2652e8b632

(0)

on February 05, 2014
at 03:20 PM

true! But really thinking what if no one does? Or if very few do the cost will be through the roof.

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