4

votes

How important are greens?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created December 08, 2011 at 3:44 AM

For general health, how important are greens like spinach, kale, collard, etc.. Does everyone include them daily?

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on February 20, 2012
at 08:08 AM

Just curious, are you eating your animals live? I could see that working for insects, but I've heard pigs have a pretty mean bite! ;)

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on February 20, 2012
at 08:00 AM

I don't like liver :P But I LOVE kale chips! :D

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on December 09, 2011
at 05:33 PM

Nance -thanks for the feedback! I will keep homemade water kefir on my to-do list.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on December 09, 2011
at 04:01 PM

Well, I think most paleohackers follow the science, and this is one area where there are multiple studies to back up the claim.

35a8b223ae5d863f17a8c9e3a8eed5eb

(571)

on December 09, 2011
at 01:00 PM

of course he "misinterprets" the studies, because he does his own and wouldn't need all the references for the sake of it

35a8b223ae5d863f17a8c9e3a8eed5eb

(571)

on December 09, 2011
at 12:57 PM

what isn't these days? lol

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on December 09, 2011
at 09:30 AM

''This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds. '' Funny because I'm British... lol

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 09, 2011
at 04:17 AM

Besides, the cow might say "ouch."

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 09, 2011
at 01:43 AM

"promise" is a strong word. how about "ascribe to the notion" instead?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on December 09, 2011
at 12:29 AM

Shouldn't be necessary except with the sloppiest of paleo diets. Eat 'em if you like 'em though.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 08, 2011
at 11:42 PM

Senneth, I'm not aware of retail options for water kefir, only for purchasing starter cultures. My supermarket carries dairy kefir, but I don't know how robust a probiotic that is.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on December 08, 2011
at 11:26 PM

sounds like melissa is scared vegetables might not be the health promoter they are made out to be.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on December 08, 2011
at 11:25 PM

sounds like melissa is scared vegetables might not be the health cornucopia they are made out to be.

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on December 08, 2011
at 10:24 PM

When you have tried everything, then any option is worth trying. The only progress I have had with my health problems has come via the pro-thyroid diet. Unlike most people in the health/nuturition industry Ray isn't set up to be a money making machine. He writes and researches because he is interested. He might not always be right but he is no charlatan.

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on December 08, 2011
at 10:03 PM

Melissa at Hunt Gather Love believes that Ray Peat is a charlatan who misreads the studies on vegetables. I would take his advice with several grains of salt. http://paleohacks.com/questions/32918/your-opinion-on-ray-peats-ideas-and-dietary-advice#axzz1ftXvlGlm

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on December 08, 2011
at 08:46 PM

Nance -I read a post where you gave some details on water kefir and I was intrigued, but am too overwelmed with all my other dietary prep to delve into making it. Know anyplace online or brand that sells it pre-made? I have tried probiotics/homemade 24hr yogurt, kombochu (no idea how to spell that!) -but they just make me burp even more. I am trying digestive enzymes on a longer term, but no change so far.(This trial has been going on for 2+months).

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 08, 2011
at 08:15 PM

With your digestive concerns, you might want to research water kefir and see if it's something you might wish to try. Sure worked wonders with my cranky gut.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 08, 2011
at 08:12 PM

@Senneth, yep I agree on the focus of the question. Just exchanging thoughts with you so I apologize if you didn't like it.

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on December 08, 2011
at 07:59 PM

Also, the rest of the article is quite pertinent. The posters question was to survey personal eating habits -not to debate as to if we should or shouldn't.

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on December 08, 2011
at 07:44 PM

Anything that impedes digestion is out for me.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 08, 2011
at 07:06 PM

The key words Ray used were "when people try to live primarily on foliage." I don't think that translates to not eating greens unless you know specifically that you have trouble with them. I thrive on them but only as a side dish once every day or two.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 08, 2011
at 05:48 PM

So you have a proposed mechanism of thyroid toxicity, but where are the real world ramifications? Why do so many people eat so many vegetables with so few problems? If you have a diagnosed thyroid disease, then there may be some merit to avoiding possibly aggravating foods. However, for everyone who does not have a clear and significant thyroid disease (quick way to check, morning temperature < 97 or > 99 F) it would seem pre-emptive and over-reactive to eliminate cruciferous vegetables. Maybe I'm rationalizing as I eat an entire cauliflower every 2 days and significant amounts of broccoli.

44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on December 08, 2011
at 05:36 PM

Liver is damn cheap, only thing stops me from eating it everyday is the extremely high retinol content. Twice per week is ok (i eat it about 600grams per week)

5ef574d7893bc816ec52e04139e9bc09

(6097)

on December 08, 2011
at 04:48 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5fsUNx2WUo&t=13s

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on December 08, 2011
at 03:10 PM

Yeah good point!

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on December 08, 2011
at 02:35 PM

tomatoes are fruits :)

Medium avatar

(10663)

on December 08, 2011
at 08:53 AM

Cruciferous vegetables contain goitrogens which interfere with the thyroid's production of its hormone. And isothiocyanates are substances in these vegetables that block thyroid peroxidase which is an enzyme used in thyroid hormone synthesis through the oxidation of iodide. But goitrogens are also found in soy-containing foods and gluten which should be avoided more than leafy greens. Cooking does lower goitrogenic compounds.

56e59609362978a9dcb390fdeb45427f

(576)

on December 08, 2011
at 04:54 AM

What link would greens have with the thyroid out of curiousity?

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11 Answers

5
D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on December 08, 2011
at 09:18 AM

No weeds for me. If I were a gorilla I'd consider it. :-)

My vegetables are potatoes, yams, sweet potatoes, onions, mushrooms and tomatoes. That's about it.

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on December 08, 2011
at 02:35 PM

tomatoes are fruits :)

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on December 09, 2011
at 09:30 AM

''This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds. '' Funny because I'm British... lol

5ef574d7893bc816ec52e04139e9bc09

(6097)

on December 08, 2011
at 04:48 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5fsUNx2WUo&t=13s

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on December 08, 2011
at 03:10 PM

Yeah good point!

5
1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

on December 08, 2011
at 04:29 AM

I do but it's mostly just because they're delicious and an excellent vehicle for my favorite fats. Yeah, they're healthy too but it doesn't hurt that they are low carb. I think if I had a thyroid problem Id avoid them but otherwise they seem likes good source of minerals, C, fiber, and antioxidants.

Medium avatar

(10663)

on December 08, 2011
at 08:53 AM

Cruciferous vegetables contain goitrogens which interfere with the thyroid's production of its hormone. And isothiocyanates are substances in these vegetables that block thyroid peroxidase which is an enzyme used in thyroid hormone synthesis through the oxidation of iodide. But goitrogens are also found in soy-containing foods and gluten which should be avoided more than leafy greens. Cooking does lower goitrogenic compounds.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 08, 2011
at 05:48 PM

So you have a proposed mechanism of thyroid toxicity, but where are the real world ramifications? Why do so many people eat so many vegetables with so few problems? If you have a diagnosed thyroid disease, then there may be some merit to avoiding possibly aggravating foods. However, for everyone who does not have a clear and significant thyroid disease (quick way to check, morning temperature < 97 or > 99 F) it would seem pre-emptive and over-reactive to eliminate cruciferous vegetables. Maybe I'm rationalizing as I eat an entire cauliflower every 2 days and significant amounts of broccoli.

56e59609362978a9dcb390fdeb45427f

(576)

on December 08, 2011
at 04:54 AM

What link would greens have with the thyroid out of curiousity?

4
44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on December 08, 2011
at 05:38 PM

I eat a pot of greens everday. I feel better. And it makes sense. Theres tons of green stuff to eat at our forests. I just gather berries mushrooms and some nettles only. I wish i knew herbs better. Finnish nature is still very clean.

4
Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 08, 2011
at 10:44 AM

Very tasty, and somewhat easier and cheaper than eating liver every day to get certain micro-nutrients.

44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on December 08, 2011
at 05:36 PM

Liver is damn cheap, only thing stops me from eating it everyday is the extremely high retinol content. Twice per week is ok (i eat it about 600grams per week)

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on February 20, 2012
at 08:00 AM

I don't like liver :P But I LOVE kale chips! :D

3
F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on December 08, 2011
at 07:04 PM

I don't eat any leafy greens. Trying to fix digestive & thyroid issues and apparently those greens can be problematic...

Ray Peat says in this great article.... "The fact that cows, sheep, goats and deer can thrive on a diet of foliage shows that leaves contain essential nutrients. Their minerals, vitamins, and amino acids are suitable for sustaining most animal life, if a sufficient quantity is eaten. But when people try to live primarily on foliage, as in famines, they soon suffer from a great variety of diseases. Various leaves contain antimetabolic substances that prevent the assimilation of the nutrients, and only very specifically adapted digestive systems (or technologies) can overcome those toxic effects."

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on December 08, 2011
at 07:59 PM

Also, the rest of the article is quite pertinent. The posters question was to survey personal eating habits -not to debate as to if we should or shouldn't.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 08, 2011
at 07:06 PM

The key words Ray used were "when people try to live primarily on foliage." I don't think that translates to not eating greens unless you know specifically that you have trouble with them. I thrive on them but only as a side dish once every day or two.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 08, 2011
at 08:15 PM

With your digestive concerns, you might want to research water kefir and see if it's something you might wish to try. Sure worked wonders with my cranky gut.

35a8b223ae5d863f17a8c9e3a8eed5eb

(571)

on December 09, 2011
at 01:00 PM

of course he "misinterprets" the studies, because he does his own and wouldn't need all the references for the sake of it

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on December 08, 2011
at 07:44 PM

Anything that impedes digestion is out for me.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 08, 2011
at 11:42 PM

Senneth, I'm not aware of retail options for water kefir, only for purchasing starter cultures. My supermarket carries dairy kefir, but I don't know how robust a probiotic that is.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on December 08, 2011
at 11:25 PM

sounds like melissa is scared vegetables might not be the health cornucopia they are made out to be.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on December 08, 2011
at 11:26 PM

sounds like melissa is scared vegetables might not be the health promoter they are made out to be.

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on December 09, 2011
at 05:33 PM

Nance -thanks for the feedback! I will keep homemade water kefir on my to-do list.

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on December 08, 2011
at 08:46 PM

Nance -I read a post where you gave some details on water kefir and I was intrigued, but am too overwelmed with all my other dietary prep to delve into making it. Know anyplace online or brand that sells it pre-made? I have tried probiotics/homemade 24hr yogurt, kombochu (no idea how to spell that!) -but they just make me burp even more. I am trying digestive enzymes on a longer term, but no change so far.(This trial has been going on for 2+months).

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on December 08, 2011
at 10:03 PM

Melissa at Hunt Gather Love believes that Ray Peat is a charlatan who misreads the studies on vegetables. I would take his advice with several grains of salt. http://paleohacks.com/questions/32918/your-opinion-on-ray-peats-ideas-and-dietary-advice#axzz1ftXvlGlm

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 08, 2011
at 08:12 PM

@Senneth, yep I agree on the focus of the question. Just exchanging thoughts with you so I apologize if you didn't like it.

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on December 08, 2011
at 10:24 PM

When you have tried everything, then any option is worth trying. The only progress I have had with my health problems has come via the pro-thyroid diet. Unlike most people in the health/nuturition industry Ray isn't set up to be a money making machine. He writes and researches because he is interested. He might not always be right but he is no charlatan.

2
Medium avatar

on December 08, 2011
at 10:55 PM

Man (human) does not live by greens alone, Vegans are so often told, correctly.

I'm not a Vegan, never hope to be one. But there's a heck of a lot of green stuff they eat, that is very much part of my regular diet.

I eat vegies of various hues, kind of a rainbow-spectrum without being dogmatic about it. Lettuce [various kinds], celery, sprouts, tomatoes, peppers, broccoli, spinach, collards, kale, cilantro, parsley. Some carrots and beets as well. Fruit? Berries chiefly.

In short, I like eating plants and animals and many things that go bump in the night at Ancel Keys' house; called fats. My diet is rich in animal foods and fats. Very Paleo/Primal, in that respect. I also I avoid grains, beans and legumes.

The whole "Can I get along without greens at all, or just minimal greens," always strikes me as implying it would be better, desirous, preferable, to get along with minimal or none. Like doing so would be some act of solidarity with "the ancestors."

But, hey, if one doesn't much like greens, there are plenty other ways to skin a collard.

2
1c7f48b2a066fb8fc5927ec31aa3e391

(175)

on December 08, 2011
at 09:39 AM

I eat them twice daily, either as a side dish for dinner or as an ingredient in my soup to which they add great flavour ( especially brussel sprouts, broccoli and asian cabbage ). I really love them. They can change so much in soup, similarly to spices.
Are they important? Yes, no, it depends. They are a good source of soluble fiber and some vitamins + minerals, and since I don't take a multivitamin that's another advantage for me. Some people also bring the issue of enzymes, but this is still gray area for me, so can't say much. Of course you can easily live without them, but unless you have a very severely compromised digestive system, I don't see any reason to avoid them.

1
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 08, 2011
at 03:34 PM

My non-scientific answer is that if I go more than a week or so without a leafy green salad I start to crave one. What I specifically crave is the green/red leaf lettuce and the fresh celery; the cuke is just along for the ride. At times I will chunk up a Roma tomato, but I don't crave that either.

So there's something in the lettuce and/or the celery that my body "remembers" and wants me to eat again. As I walk around the produce department something may look good to me, but the only 2 I ever crave spontaneously are the leaf lettuce and celery.

1
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on December 08, 2011
at 03:18 PM

I eat some, but prefer liver.

0
Cf4576cbcc44fc7f2294135609bce9e5

on December 09, 2011
at 01:35 AM

eat living things to live. eat dead things to die. i promise that is how it really works.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 09, 2011
at 04:17 AM

Besides, the cow might say "ouch."

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 09, 2011
at 01:43 AM

"promise" is a strong word. how about "ascribe to the notion" instead?

Dc0b6400ec0a34615510f4e01cedab28

(385)

on February 20, 2012
at 08:08 AM

Just curious, are you eating your animals live? I could see that working for insects, but I've heard pigs have a pretty mean bite! ;)

0
Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on December 08, 2011
at 02:25 PM

They are anti-carcinogens

Aebee51dc2b93b209980a89fa4a70c1e

(1982)

on December 09, 2011
at 04:01 PM

Well, I think most paleohackers follow the science, and this is one area where there are multiple studies to back up the claim.

35a8b223ae5d863f17a8c9e3a8eed5eb

(571)

on December 09, 2011
at 12:57 PM

what isn't these days? lol

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