2

votes

Good bye paleo.. sob..

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created February 14, 2013 at 8:21 PM

As much as I love paleo, I have had some disturbing problems lately and I unfortunately have decided to leave paleo and do so additional research. 10 Years ago I had fatty liver and high borderline high cholesterol and was obese. Since Paleo I have lost a good amount of weight and it keeps going down. +1 for paleo. I get to eat really good foods. +2 for paleo. And I feel great +3 paleo! woot. And my cholesterol number are awesome except for HDL which still needs work, it was (35) But yesterday I had yellow stools and I have been suffering from right side pain under the rib cage. A family member who is a M.D. So I made a phone call to him and said it sounds like a severe liver issue and I am getting checked out on Tuesday the 19. I'm not blaming paleo, but he mentioned that eating this diet is not helping my liver and gallbladder and its stressing it out pretty hard. I told him my full meal plans and he did see problems, too much fat. I told him to read the books that I had read, The primal connection, the paleo solution and the Paleo diet solution revised. He surprised me and said he had red them and quotes several things from them, and smiled and said "hogwash" he then lectured me about "there is no scientific evidence to support paleo being healthy" he did give it good marks on food quality but urged the fat content is killing my liver and gallbladder. I sat there in surprise and shock that he was somewhat enlightened on a paleo solution to health! So until I get some encouraging results from my family M.D. I'm gonna leave paleo to re-evaluate it. Any suggestions? Or still get checked out but keep up on the diet? Thanks guys/gals

Medium avatar

(10611)

on February 15, 2013
at 05:32 PM

I walk outside every day of the year. For Chicago winters I wore mittens with windproof overmitts, a balaclava, layered wool for upper body, knee high wool socks (if not my calves would get cold blisters, a fur musher hat and a scarf. It sounds clumsy, but it wasn't - I adapted into this outfit after finding out which body part was still getting cold at 0 F. Where I am now I've adapted an entirely different outfit for the frequent cold windy downpours.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on February 15, 2013
at 04:47 PM

Ketogenic diets are natural, assuming you are a hunter-gatherer and there aren't any carbs in your area. What is probably unnatural staying ketogenic all the time, but in many cases it would rate as therapeutic. Peat is teaching us the cutting edge of 1930s medicine because he rejects everything new. I like what he says about raw carrot, and got a kick out of the CO2 stuff, but trying to eat like he says causes unhappiness.

83d2d5eaaa2704020286e98c470f6a44

(340)

on February 15, 2013
at 04:01 PM

Please go to a DR, a md that laugh over the phone, to someone with, pain under the rib cage. Is not a good person to take advice from.

F4a6fc9f0b701e12cdf2ad5dadaeb2dd

(360)

on February 15, 2013
at 04:01 PM

Kale is tasty and nutrient-dense.

C061e777712074b97f9ace5c51e630dd

(25)

on February 15, 2013
at 03:14 PM

Dave, Good point I went and watched the video again I did notice that he never said a name! Pfft on that dude. I guess this was another stupid error on my part. I can admit my mistake. Sorry people.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on February 15, 2013
at 02:56 PM

Your diet doesn't look like the problem. Fatty liver disease is caused by alcohol and/or excess fructose. The Weston A. Price foundation people say saturated fat is actually protective for the liver. The doctor should be able to explain to you why he thinks fat is the culprit, rather than just saying there is no scientific evidence for paleo. We already know there isn't much evidence- that's why http://nusi.org/ was formed. We've got evolutionary theory and hypothesize about how to apply it. Please update us on what it turns out to be.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on February 15, 2013
at 02:51 PM

How could one provide "scientific evidence" to contradict a picture of an obese woman with "paleo primal diet" written underneath it and "I heard two famous [but unnamed] paleo people died of heart attacks!"

C061e777712074b97f9ace5c51e630dd

(25)

on February 15, 2013
at 02:49 PM

matt, I have read several articles on this subject. http://www.drmcdougall.com/med_liver.html and http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2012/02/just-brief-post-on-development-of-nash.html intersting for sure. These are only 2 that I have observed that are good. google for more info. I like to check out all angles before jumping in on any diet. I read for 6 months before starting Paleo and the evidence I found was more positive than negative.

C061e777712074b97f9ace5c51e630dd

(25)

on February 15, 2013
at 02:28 PM

I did revert back to my whole grains yesterday, ugh.. talk about sluggish and feeling funky again. I used to be a low fat, high card guy until I found paleo. Read the books and loved them. Yesterday was terrible, constantly hungry, tired, the mental fog rolled in. Not sure if thats possible from eating grains in 1 day but it sure felt bad.

C061e777712074b97f9ace5c51e630dd

(25)

on February 15, 2013
at 02:25 PM

yeah ok, I walk, bend, vacuum and stoop and pick up semi heavy things at work for about 6 hours a day. And then walk all over thie campus mon-thur at the school. I try and throw in some weight training when I can and I am toying with the idea of doing 30 minutes of cardio on my bicycle at home. Its winter where I live so getting outside is way to cold! any ideas thanks

C061e777712074b97f9ace5c51e630dd

(25)

on February 15, 2013
at 02:19 PM

my breakfast is usually 2 eggs, dash of organic coconut oil to allow no sticking about 1 tsp. and then I fry up some veggies in gheee again just enough to allow non stick. Lunch is usally a salad with avacado. Dinner is anything fish, steak, ham, and as many pan fried veggies brussel sprouts, carrots, greens, etc. Organic meat working on it my budget is limited so I keep the portions of meat smaller. I suppliment with omega 3 fish oils also and a good pro-biotic for good colon germs.

C061e777712074b97f9ace5c51e630dd

(25)

on February 15, 2013
at 02:14 PM

Accusing me of being a troll is positively funny. I said I love paleo and the weight loss has been great! smilled over the phone I did make a error on my part, he makes noises and since we have talked in real life I know his snorts over the phone mean a smile. of course I posted that david, I want the paleo community to comment on this guys silliness and post some more positive info or even some scientific evidence to contradict his story. troll pffft

028e70a250f38bd61fa81b0e0789bb6e

(812)

on February 15, 2013
at 01:58 PM

Watch out, this guy has been eating cars for a year!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on February 15, 2013
at 01:27 PM

What I'm saying is ketogenic diets are unnatural and probably not the best idea for most folks. And Ray Peat is about as artificial as they come. He came up with an incredibly artificial diet based on his (flawed) reading of the science. Not sure it's even all that useful - probably as useful as a ketogenic diet is - some of the time at best.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on February 15, 2013
at 12:40 PM

@Stephen, if macros require effort to maintain, then I say they're unnatural and not probably a good thing. Both very high fat-low carb (80+/<10) and very low fat-high carb (<20, >60) aren't easily maintained. I've found that 60% fat, 20% carb is very easy to maintain for a lowish carb amount. Fat at that level seems high, but not unsustainable so. Even easier is a 40/40 split between fat and carbs, going lower fat than that requires some additional effort that I'd prefer not taking. Who knows what the OP is doing though... or if he's not even a troll.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on February 15, 2013
at 12:36 PM

Yes, we've had an interest batch of trolls recently, ones that keep up a paleo ruse enough that they go undetected by many.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on February 15, 2013
at 12:26 PM

Yup. Check out the link that this TimK guy posted about paleo causing heart attacks. http://paleohacks.com/questions/167336/how-do-you-determine-which-experts-to-trust-in-health-blogosphere/179253#179253

A08b210e4da7e69cd792bddc1f4aae4b

(1031)

on February 15, 2013
at 05:30 AM

Where do these folks get their ideas from that Paleo is some sort of hardline, prescriptive dogma? I must be reading the wrong books and blogs!

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on February 15, 2013
at 03:05 AM

Yeah, I'm just gonna call BS. Movin on.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 15, 2013
at 12:55 AM

btw, yellow diarrhea == gallbladder bile dysfunction; Hard yellow stools == alcoholic liver disease; yellow stools and abdominal cramps = GERD...

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on February 15, 2013
at 12:44 AM

There's a happy middle between high fat and low fat. Play around and figure out what your body likes. I started with 65% (by cal) fat, went as low as 40% fat, and found that 50-55% is what makes my body happy.

Medium avatar

(2338)

on February 14, 2013
at 11:02 PM

yeah seriously this story smells fishy

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 14, 2013
at 09:50 PM

And since peat is known to stress a high sugar diet... Just for the record don't come off thinking I'm advocating high fat, I'm not, but I think High sugar is just as fringe imho.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 14, 2013
at 09:49 PM

"The adrenal glands are the main stress control system of the body. Adrenal Fatigue is a decrease in the adrenal glands' ability to carry out this normal function. It is commonly caused by chronic stress from any source (including emotional, physical, mental, or environmental) that exceeds the body's capacity to adjust appropriately to the demands placed on it by the stress. Stressors that can lead to Adrenal Fatigue include anger, chronic illness, depression, surgery, high sugar intake, over exercise, sleep deprivation, chronic or acute infections including Giardia and H. pylori and..."

7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

(4176)

on February 14, 2013
at 09:34 PM

how's that then?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on February 14, 2013
at 09:23 PM

Stressful to your liver how? High carb is also hard on your liver, pancreas, whole freakin' body...

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on February 14, 2013
at 09:22 PM

He already had a damaged liver, doesn't take much to push it over the edge, though a high fat diet wouldn't be my prime suspect...

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 14, 2013
at 09:22 PM

Lol, she'll just go from stressing her liver to stressing her adrenals if she goes to peat.

7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

(4176)

on February 14, 2013
at 09:14 PM

High fat is stressful to your liver, look to Ray Peat

83d2d5eaaa2704020286e98c470f6a44

(340)

on February 14, 2013
at 09:03 PM

"and smiled and said "hogwash"" so he smiled over the PHONE please go to a DR, not some wizard who can smiled over the PHONE

75d65450b6ff0be7b969fb321f1200ac

(2506)

on February 14, 2013
at 08:34 PM

I hope your doctor successfully diagnoses your problem and it turns out to be relatively benign. Don't throw paleo out the window just yet, .. what until you find out what's wrong. And indeed as Stephen R says, paleo need not be high fat/low carb. You can swizzle it to suite you. BTW, your post is a good reminder for folks to get a full blood test panel that includes data on liver/kidney function every couple of years.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 14, 2013
at 08:25 PM

The paleo diet doesn't have to be a high fat low carb diet...

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12 Answers

10
83d2d5eaaa2704020286e98c470f6a44

(340)

on February 14, 2013
at 08:39 PM

Pain under the rib cage

yellow stools

phone call to M.D

I would go to a DR today, not in a week.

Paleo diet is not all fat & protein

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on February 15, 2013
at 03:05 AM

Yeah, I'm just gonna call BS. Movin on.

C061e777712074b97f9ace5c51e630dd

(25)

on February 15, 2013
at 02:14 PM

Accusing me of being a troll is positively funny. I said I love paleo and the weight loss has been great! smilled over the phone I did make a error on my part, he makes noises and since we have talked in real life I know his snorts over the phone mean a smile. of course I posted that david, I want the paleo community to comment on this guys silliness and post some more positive info or even some scientific evidence to contradict his story. troll pffft

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on February 15, 2013
at 12:36 PM

Yes, we've had an interest batch of trolls recently, ones that keep up a paleo ruse enough that they go undetected by many.

83d2d5eaaa2704020286e98c470f6a44

(340)

on February 14, 2013
at 09:03 PM

"and smiled and said "hogwash"" so he smiled over the PHONE please go to a DR, not some wizard who can smiled over the PHONE

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on February 15, 2013
at 12:26 PM

Yup. Check out the link that this TimK guy posted about paleo causing heart attacks. http://paleohacks.com/questions/167336/how-do-you-determine-which-experts-to-trust-in-health-blogosphere/179253#179253

83d2d5eaaa2704020286e98c470f6a44

(340)

on February 15, 2013
at 04:01 PM

Please go to a DR, a md that laugh over the phone, to someone with, pain under the rib cage. Is not a good person to take advice from.

Medium avatar

(2338)

on February 14, 2013
at 11:02 PM

yeah seriously this story smells fishy

C061e777712074b97f9ace5c51e630dd

(25)

on February 15, 2013
at 03:14 PM

Dave, Good point I went and watched the video again I did notice that he never said a name! Pfft on that dude. I guess this was another stupid error on my part. I can admit my mistake. Sorry people.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on February 15, 2013
at 02:51 PM

How could one provide "scientific evidence" to contradict a picture of an obese woman with "paleo primal diet" written underneath it and "I heard two famous [but unnamed] paleo people died of heart attacks!"

9
32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on February 15, 2013
at 12:41 AM

Paleo does not CAUSE gallbladder or liver failure. Being fat causes liver problems. Losing weight (quickly) causes gallbladder problems. It doesn't matter if you lose it on paleo, vegetarian, or anorexia ... fast weight loss causes stones to form.

If you have had several large weight gains and losses in your life, your gallbladder may be full of stones. If it is full of stones, it is not functioning. It may also give you pain (like you said, high right side under ribs).

If you eat high fat (high fat paleo, high fat vegetarian, or high fat SAD) and your gallbladder is full of stones, you will not have enough bile to digest the fats. You may end up with loose stools and/or stomach aches. You can take a supplement called OX BILE to supplement the bile in your digestive system.

The paleo diet is not stressing your liver. Sugar and white flour is stressing your liver; that's how you got fatty liver. Switching to a healthier form of eating, however, CAN stress your body as a whole. Losing weight and getting healthy again is hard on your body. You have to decide if it is worth it to get to where you want to be.

FWIW, I say this as someone who had gallbladder failure (and a sick liver with ridiculously high enzymes) due a lifetime of gaining and losing weight. After a year and a half of pain I had the gb removed. A month after surgery I went back to paleo, and have never had a problem with fat digestion since; my body adjusted perfectly. My gallbladder was simply the casualty of a lifetime of poor choices due to misinformation from the low-fat/high-grain establishment.

3
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 15, 2013
at 12:49 AM

I am not a doctor. But it doesn't take a doctor to say, yellow stools and side pains = GERD

How do you fix GERD?

Reduce carb intake: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16871438

Fat intake has nothing to do with yellow stools. Sounds like your doctor friend found a chance to get on his soapbox and BSed you. Don't treat the problem, don't treat the symptoms, just prescribe medicine... Good plan

You may be eating too much fat, I don't know your diet. But that is not what is causing your yellow stools -- unless you are an alcoholic which I suppose is also possible, course I would be advocating for you to quit drinking, not eating fat...

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 15, 2013
at 12:55 AM

btw, yellow diarrhea == gallbladder bile dysfunction; Hard yellow stools == alcoholic liver disease; yellow stools and abdominal cramps = GERD...

3
006f2e9b763058ff2332681c206563e4

on February 14, 2013
at 10:49 PM

I'm also paleo and I'm doing pretty well with much more fish and veggies than other 'paleos', it's somehow not in my nature to eat that much fat. It's still okay! But please don't go back to grains and such stuff, cmon, what's wrong with kale and tomatoes? :)

C061e777712074b97f9ace5c51e630dd

(25)

on February 15, 2013
at 02:28 PM

I did revert back to my whole grains yesterday, ugh.. talk about sluggish and feeling funky again. I used to be a low fat, high card guy until I found paleo. Read the books and loved them. Yesterday was terrible, constantly hungry, tired, the mental fog rolled in. Not sure if thats possible from eating grains in 1 day but it sure felt bad.

3
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on February 14, 2013
at 08:42 PM

How much fat are you eating?

Fats and oils are a processed food, and therefore are somewhat neolithic, especially with regards to dose. I think people were preferentially eating the fattiest parts of the animal in the paleolithic, but we can over do it. That said, I don't understand the mechanism via which it would damage your liver. Could you ask this guy? I suppose you could overwhelm your gallbladder.

Art DeVany is not a big fan of the higher fat paleo stuff. He says it damages the mitochondria, so there are people definitely eating an evolutionary diet who are not eating as much fat.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on February 14, 2013
at 09:22 PM

He already had a damaged liver, doesn't take much to push it over the edge, though a high fat diet wouldn't be my prime suspect...

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on February 15, 2013
at 02:56 PM

Your diet doesn't look like the problem. Fatty liver disease is caused by alcohol and/or excess fructose. The Weston A. Price foundation people say saturated fat is actually protective for the liver. The doctor should be able to explain to you why he thinks fat is the culprit, rather than just saying there is no scientific evidence for paleo. We already know there isn't much evidence- that's why http://nusi.org/ was formed. We've got evolutionary theory and hypothesize about how to apply it. Please update us on what it turns out to be.

C061e777712074b97f9ace5c51e630dd

(25)

on February 15, 2013
at 02:19 PM

my breakfast is usually 2 eggs, dash of organic coconut oil to allow no sticking about 1 tsp. and then I fry up some veggies in gheee again just enough to allow non stick. Lunch is usally a salad with avacado. Dinner is anything fish, steak, ham, and as many pan fried veggies brussel sprouts, carrots, greens, etc. Organic meat working on it my budget is limited so I keep the portions of meat smaller. I suppliment with omega 3 fish oils also and a good pro-biotic for good colon germs.

2
2006ccb2b60f9cc5ba5e8eff8a7abc46

on February 14, 2013
at 08:45 PM

what types of fats are you eating. personally my gallbladder and liver hated me when i was eating any vegetable or nut and seed oils, including nut butters and organic extra virgin olive oil. when i cut out all that mess, went low carb (less then 50gs a day) and high animal fats, with an emphasis on raw fats and omega threes, my liver and gallbladder finally stopped killing me. i also ate a ton of raw grass fed beef liver, it was one of the things that helped keep me alive for a while there! have you even looked into any herbal remedies for these issues, something as simple as dandelion root tea and milk thistle extract are excellent and well studied healing remedies. also look into things like choline, lecithin and sulphur, all of which are in good amounts in raw egg yolks, as well as excellent supplements for the liver. lots of leafy greens, especially from the lettuce family (escarole, frizee, romaine, dandelion leaf) anything with that bitter flavor is great for the liver. i wouldnt give up on paleo, i would just figure out a way to make the diet supportive of liver healing, its definitely possible. i obliterated mine from being a child/teenage alcoholic as well as dealing with binge eating and a host of other unhealthy habits. its taken a while to get it down, cycling through many herbal remedies and figuring out how to get my diet on point, but am now know i am on my way to being fully recovered

1
83d2d5eaaa2704020286e98c470f6a44

(340)

on February 15, 2013
at 04:24 PM

Please go to a Medical Doctor , a md that laugh over the phone, to someone with, pain under the rib cage. Is not a good person to take advice from. Only a Wizard, wounld do that!

Also, Paleo diet is not all fat & protein.

1
00f034ed9cdeab04f4a7e72296c3d4d9

(120)

on February 14, 2013
at 10:54 PM

What if you don't have a gall bladder at all? I had mine removed a few years ago, and I notice when I eat high fat I have very loose BMs. For some reason I thought High Fat Paleo was the way to go, with VLC, for optimal weight loss. But maybe I should do low-fat, VLC Paleo instead? Instead of eating an avocado every day, maybe once a week? Or instead of eating bacon every other day, eat lean sausage instead?

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on February 15, 2013
at 12:44 AM

There's a happy middle between high fat and low fat. Play around and figure out what your body likes. I started with 65% (by cal) fat, went as low as 40% fat, and found that 50-55% is what makes my body happy.

1
Medium avatar

(10611)

on February 14, 2013
at 10:35 PM

How active are you? I had a 35 HDL until I quit bring sedentary. None of my diet wonking helped increase it. I'm not certain, but more activity might help get the fat metabolized better too. Activity is effective to get carbs out of the bloodstream quickly, and it's probably similar with fatty acids if that's the fuel available.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on February 15, 2013
at 05:32 PM

I walk outside every day of the year. For Chicago winters I wore mittens with windproof overmitts, a balaclava, layered wool for upper body, knee high wool socks (if not my calves would get cold blisters, a fur musher hat and a scarf. It sounds clumsy, but it wasn't - I adapted into this outfit after finding out which body part was still getting cold at 0 F. Where I am now I've adapted an entirely different outfit for the frequent cold windy downpours.

C061e777712074b97f9ace5c51e630dd

(25)

on February 15, 2013
at 02:25 PM

yeah ok, I walk, bend, vacuum and stoop and pick up semi heavy things at work for about 6 hours a day. And then walk all over thie campus mon-thur at the school. I try and throw in some weight training when I can and I am toying with the idea of doing 30 minutes of cardio on my bicycle at home. Its winter where I live so getting outside is way to cold! any ideas thanks

1
32d059a467e99a4fc83201407a4a238d

on February 14, 2013
at 09:44 PM

Maybe you need the GAPS diet? Most of us have damaged guts and that may be a problem even if you are eating healthy, traditional food. Have you looked into it?

-1
7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

on February 14, 2013
at 09:12 PM

Look to Ray Peat, the saviour from Paleo error

7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

(4176)

on February 14, 2013
at 09:34 PM

how's that then?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 14, 2013
at 09:50 PM

And since peat is known to stress a high sugar diet... Just for the record don't come off thinking I'm advocating high fat, I'm not, but I think High sugar is just as fringe imho.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on February 15, 2013
at 01:27 PM

What I'm saying is ketogenic diets are unnatural and probably not the best idea for most folks. And Ray Peat is about as artificial as they come. He came up with an incredibly artificial diet based on his (flawed) reading of the science. Not sure it's even all that useful - probably as useful as a ketogenic diet is - some of the time at best.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on February 15, 2013
at 04:47 PM

Ketogenic diets are natural, assuming you are a hunter-gatherer and there aren't any carbs in your area. What is probably unnatural staying ketogenic all the time, but in many cases it would rate as therapeutic. Peat is teaching us the cutting edge of 1930s medicine because he rejects everything new. I like what he says about raw carrot, and got a kick out of the CO2 stuff, but trying to eat like he says causes unhappiness.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 14, 2013
at 09:22 PM

Lol, she'll just go from stressing her liver to stressing her adrenals if she goes to peat.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 14, 2013
at 09:49 PM

"The adrenal glands are the main stress control system of the body. Adrenal Fatigue is a decrease in the adrenal glands' ability to carry out this normal function. It is commonly caused by chronic stress from any source (including emotional, physical, mental, or environmental) that exceeds the body's capacity to adjust appropriately to the demands placed on it by the stress. Stressors that can lead to Adrenal Fatigue include anger, chronic illness, depression, surgery, high sugar intake, over exercise, sleep deprivation, chronic or acute infections including Giardia and H. pylori and..."

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on February 15, 2013
at 12:40 PM

@Stephen, if macros require effort to maintain, then I say they're unnatural and not probably a good thing. Both very high fat-low carb (80+/<10) and very low fat-high carb (<20, >60) aren't easily maintained. I've found that 60% fat, 20% carb is very easy to maintain for a lowish carb amount. Fat at that level seems high, but not unsustainable so. Even easier is a 40/40 split between fat and carbs, going lower fat than that requires some additional effort that I'd prefer not taking. Who knows what the OP is doing though... or if he's not even a troll.

-2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 15, 2013
at 12:16 PM

I said bye bye after a year. It's been disastrous for me. I also was in perfect health previous to paleo (high cars, moderate protein and fat). Paleo just messed up my body big time. Loss muscle tone, no energy, etc.

It was great for 90 days but then you hit a wall and your body falls apart. It's a crappy diet based on pseudo science.

I actually feel like an idiot believing bacon and eggs and coffee (like rob states) is better than Kale.

028e70a250f38bd61fa81b0e0789bb6e

(812)

on February 15, 2013
at 01:58 PM

Watch out, this guy has been eating cars for a year!

F4a6fc9f0b701e12cdf2ad5dadaeb2dd

(360)

on February 15, 2013
at 04:01 PM

Kale is tasty and nutrient-dense.

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