3

votes

Gluten. That Is All.

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created December 12, 2012 at 7:09 PM

I started the Paleo lifestyle 9 weeks ago. From my initial research it appeared the way forward was lean protein, veg, fruits, & nuts. And to cut out dairy, carbs, legumes, and all that is processed.

Following this, and exercising 6 x a week at high intensity, in 8 weeks I lost a stone. Great news, though I became fatigued/exhausted and developed a horrible taste in my mouth.

I did some research, and learnt carbs are important if you are exercising, so recently added them back into my diet and I feel so much better. I do suspect the weight will come off slower, though I found I cannot cope without carbs.

Upon the re-addition of carbohydrates into my diet, I began reading up on the best ones, and which to avoid, and stumbled upon the big debate on gluten.

It seems very shunned in the Paleo lifestyle. Carbs are okay if you exercise, but gluten? No no.

I read articles on how our gut cannot properly tolerate it. And that most of the population are 'gluten sensitive'. And that you could to a test by completely removing it from your diet and then re-adding it after 4 weeks to see if you develop 'symptoms'. I did this - I am not 'gluten sensitive'.

I then began to think of the reasons why people enter this lifestyle. Are you doing it to lose weight? Are you going Paleo to ensure your body is only filled with goodness?

Personally, I went Paleo to lose weight. And considering I am not 'gluten sensitive' and carbs are important if you exercise at a high intensity, how would gluten be bad?

I cannot think of any reasons why it would be a problem to include it into my diet considering the above statements. Especially for the sake of variety.

Am I missing something? I'm interested to know of the insights of others.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 16, 2012
at 02:43 PM

I find it odd that you think I do not want to be convinced. I am seeking truth, and thought I had made that clear. Surely those who say gluten is toxic, without solid proof, are convinced, themselves? It is healthy to question things. When you propose for me to remove toxic food from my body, do you specifically mean gluten?Because I have tried this, and re-adding it made no impact. I understand when you say grains are a source of carbs, and know that they are not the best source, though I feel there is somewhat of a witch hunt going on here.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 16, 2012
at 02:20 PM

http://nutritiondiva.quickanddirtytips.com/phytic-acid-in-grains.aspx I was particularly interested in the part, 'Is Soaking Grains Worth the Trouble?'

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 16, 2012
at 02:08 PM

I've read up on phytic acid levels in brown rice, and apparently this is unlikely to lead to nutrient deficiencies unless you are eating large amounts with every meal. So I suppose if you want to consume grains, eating them in moderation should keep you out of trouble in terms of phytic acid. It has become clearer how grains are calorie-dense as opposed to nutrient-dense, though I cannot stick to only sweet potato, squash & pumpkin for carbs, and considering how the only real problem with grains is their lack of nutrients, I think I will add grains in moderation for variety.

3f0a69f164d8fac2cdee80c19526f83f

(205)

on December 15, 2012
at 06:28 PM

Carbohydrates are a macro-nutrient and grains are a source of carbs. Therefore the two are not equivalent. However, what I was hoping to convey was that grains are not the only source of carbs. As you indicated, sweet potatoes are one very great source. I am not sure what research you have read so far, but no amount of legitimate, scientific research will convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced. You may perhaps want to self-experiment to determine what, if any, improvements in your well-being become apparent after removing toxic food from your body.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 14, 2012
at 08:59 PM

It does, and on paper looks like an amazing option. Unfortunately brown rice also sports a pretty impressive phytic acid levels (10mg per 1g brown rice). That phytic acid binds with teh minerals reducing their bio-availability. You can get around it by soaking for 24 hours -- http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-way-to-soak-brown-rice.html . But I'd rather get my fiber, selenium, and magnesium from natural sources like eggs and leafy greens and meat.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 14, 2012
at 08:40 PM

If grains are a problem and contain anti-nutrients, then why do I keep reading brown rice is high in fibre, selenium and magnesium?

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 14, 2012
at 08:37 PM

So I hear. Though I believe this is not the case for everyone.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 14, 2012
at 08:36 PM

Thank you for the links, I will check them out. You say grains aren't ideal from the anti-nutrient perspective, though isn't brown rice high in fibre? http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/healthy-eating/the-nutrition-of-brown-rice.html#b http://www.rd.com/health/healthy-eating/brown-rice-nutrientpacked-and-fiberrich/

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 14, 2012
at 08:30 PM

Not at all, all this nutrient talk can get confusing, I appreciate the clarification. I do agree that how one reacts to nutrients is dependent on many factors. And not something scientists can easily determine. I also agree to do what works for you. Oh how I miss cakes and biscuits. I do not allow myself these things. I ask myself, what is more important - my need to indulge and self-soothe, or my need to lose weight? However, 40g dark chocolate a week is my little treat =) for the antioxidants ;)

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 14, 2012
at 08:22 PM

I understand that grains are empty calories, though you recommend rice as a good gluten free carb and that is a grain? If grains and breads fill us up, then why would we need fruit/veg to feel fuller? I am not one to crash/feel sleepy after eating grains/gluten. I have high levels of energy =)

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 14, 2012
at 08:07 PM

Of course the more nutrient dense your source the better. I'm just contemplating variety and interested on more gluten related info

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on December 13, 2012
at 06:29 PM

And, btw, gluten is not carbs, gluten are proteins.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on December 13, 2012
at 06:27 PM

Even if wheat isn't causing inflammation, leaky gut, or IBS - it's is still a poor source of nutrition. 85% of people have inflammation (release of IL-6, etc.) in response to eating wheat. Stephen Guyenet did an informal experiment with his readers to go 30 days without wheat. About half felt better and the other half felt the same. If you can handle it, fine. Would you be better off putting those calories into something more nutrient dense? Probably. But if it's a small part of your diet and you are truly unaffected by it, then it shouldn't be a big deal.

2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

(3043)

on December 13, 2012
at 02:29 PM

What im saying it is entirely a person by person thing. So I can't answer for you. For me grains make me bloated and cause mental distress. For you, you may gel with them:)

2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

(3043)

on December 13, 2012
at 02:28 PM

There are those nutrients, but they are not as bioavailable as those in meats, eggs and fats(coconut, tallow, lard). And from a monetary perspective I would rather get a steak than a sandwich, because I know by calorie and nutrition im getting a better buy.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on December 13, 2012
at 03:52 AM

Oats don't have gluten, they have gliadin, although most are processed in same machines as glutinous grains so probably have some residually...

5f678ffff153bfc8a17ac1ee438c054f

(1405)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:45 PM

I had a low iron problem too! Even though you said your iron is perfect now, I also read that tea can strip the body of iron, I forgot why, but I drank a lot of tea and my doctor said that was another reason my iron was low. But if you add lemon to your tea, it blocks those anti-nutrients in the tea, so that iron can still be absorbed. Just thought it was interesting!

35deaf0f101526bb113ea69f79934f2b

(436)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:35 PM

a note on the absorption of nutrients... I was incredibly low on iron my entire life, so much so that every time I had blood work, my doctor would but me on 3x the normal iron dose supplement. Even on that much iron, my blood work would not improve because I was not absorbing it properly. 3 months gluten free and my iron is perfect WITHOUT supplementing. Do note though that I have noticed that I am gluten sensitive. I get a bad stomach ache is I eat it. This might not apply to those who tolerate it fine.

35deaf0f101526bb113ea69f79934f2b

(436)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:31 PM

I think you're good then :). I like my steel cut oats too and when eaten a couple time a week don't think theyll kill me. ohh and I do love oreos too... too bad my belly doesn't!

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:31 PM

Most of the anti-nutrients are excluded in white rice, so apparently brown rice is less healthy. How big of an impact those (trace amounts of?) anti-nutrients are is a whole another matter which is another topic I'd like more info on.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:29 PM

Yep, you are right.

00cd3b6f51530a6832fcda1712edbec3

(2411)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:16 PM

Wisper, it's contradictory to say you avoid grains and eat white rice. Rice *is* a grain.

5f678ffff153bfc8a17ac1ee438c054f

(1405)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:12 PM

The best way to get variety is to be creative with what you have. That means new spices, and new ways to prepare vegetables, and stuff like that. For example, if you are craving pasta, or want something like it, you can julienne slice up some zucchini, or you can make spaghetti squash. White rice is actually better for your gut, because it does not have the germ of the rice plant like brown rice does. I know flax seed isn't completely excepted as "paleo" but it is so versatile, and can be used occasionally. Again, I suggest you pick up "Wheat Belly" it will answer all your questions!

Ee6932fe54ad68039a8d5f7a8caa0468

(2668)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:02 PM

@paleopapa, if they're losing weight, they're in a deficit. no two ways about it.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:02 PM

I am interested in your statement that carbs are not equivalent to grains. For one, sweet potato and wholemeal bread are both a source of carbohydrates. In relation to the other aspects of their equivalence, I have read various articles on why gluten/wheat is bad, and it appears that the information put forward is lacking backing. The research put into this topic seems to fall short. When I read the material I am presented with theories. I cannot buy into this without empirical evidence. I am not on a gluten rant. I am seeking genuine proof of the negative effects of gluten.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 12, 2012
at 08:47 PM

I do not plan to eat it on the form of 'crap'. I plan to maybe sometimes have some wholemeal bread; eat steel-cut oats with breakfast, and every other day have brown rice with dinner (though apparently these last two are not high in gluten). I do not plan to eat white bread, pasta, cakes, biscuits etc.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on December 12, 2012
at 08:45 PM

Haha, Oreos are my favorite form of gluten. ;)

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 12, 2012
at 08:40 PM

Also, you say grains are void of nutrients. I have recently included brown rice into my diet which is a source of B vitamins, phosphorus, magnesium, manganese and selenium. However, I read that this grain is pretty much gluten-free. I have also included oats into my diet (soon to be steel cut). These are high in protein & fibre, and contain calcium, iron, magnesium, potassium, phosphorus, sodium, zinc, manganese and copper. - Apparently gluten is absent from steel-cut oats, but may occur from cross-contamination. Surely this is nutrient dense?

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 12, 2012
at 08:29 PM

@Chelsea, I am not looking for the A OK. I am looking for more information on why gluten might be a bad dietary addition, despite what I have already covered.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 12, 2012
at 08:26 PM

You are right in that I entered ketosis. Yes, I was totally 100% gluten free. Four weeks was recommended from the article I read: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/gluten-what-you-dont-know_b_379089.html I am all for avoiding processed foods. I am just looking for variety in my diet. I am not looking to indulge in white bread and white pasta. I am considering wholemeal bread, occasionally. Also, I have introduced oats & rice - without these your variety is very limited. I am interested to know of the backing for this theory of how gluten prohibits absorption of nutrients.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 12, 2012
at 08:14 PM

I agree that gluten products are not as nutritious as say, sweet potato, though I consider gluten simply for variety - and it does have a benefit of being a carb, which is important in itself. I also came to the conclusion that the dangerous effects of gluten is speculation and stretched reasoning that needs way more research

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 12, 2012
at 08:07 PM

@Paleo Papa -- it is as simple as creating a deficit. However, Calories In - BMR - Calories Burned Exercising -- is perhaps too simplistic.

Fce356005a83353009c11567c217a9bd

on December 12, 2012
at 07:52 PM

I disagree with your energy deficit. It's just not that simple. You can't apply the laws of thermodynamics to a chaotic system like the body. Many folks lose major lbs after embracing the Paleo lifestyle; consuming way more calories (e.g. no deficit) than before they made the change.

2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

(3043)

on December 12, 2012
at 07:43 PM

Yes, she is basically looking for the a.ok. I'm saying I can't give her the answer because it is individual.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on December 12, 2012
at 07:30 PM

I'm in the same boat. But you're not even trying to answer OP's question, which is the purpose of this site.

2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

(3043)

on December 12, 2012
at 07:26 PM

I'm not handwaving or dismissing. Its more like why ask the question. Do what suits you. People who eat paleo avoid grains, plain and simple. Grains are cheap, but void of nutrients. They don't bother everyone in the same way (i.e. obesity vs. autoimmune disorders). I prefer to enjoy more nutrient dense foods but thats my choice.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on December 12, 2012
at 07:21 PM

OP clearly states she has done the research. Just because she goes against paleo orthodoxy doesn't invalidate the question itself. Many people don't react to gluten. I've asked similar questions in the past, and all I've received are handwaving and dismissal.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on December 12, 2012
at 07:19 PM

OP clearly implied she's done the research. Just because she goes against orthodoxy doesn't mean it's not a valid question - one that I've often wondered about, and asked here. And never received a constructive answer.

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12 Answers

6
35deaf0f101526bb113ea69f79934f2b

(436)

on December 12, 2012
at 07:46 PM

If you are not sensitive to gluten, then I don't think you need to completely cut it out. My question to you though is what form you plan to eat it in? If you mean you want to eat sprouted grain bread occasionally, then sure do it. If you mean Oreos, crapy squish bread, and those boxes of cake mix that you add vegetable oil to, then those should be avoided anyway, regardless of gluten.

I am gluten sensitive but would avoid it even if I was not, simply because I don't really know of many healthy foods containing wheat. If you want to include gluten in your diet, then eat the most natural forms of gluten grains and not the processed foods.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 12, 2012
at 08:47 PM

I do not plan to eat it on the form of 'crap'. I plan to maybe sometimes have some wholemeal bread; eat steel-cut oats with breakfast, and every other day have brown rice with dinner (though apparently these last two are not high in gluten). I do not plan to eat white bread, pasta, cakes, biscuits etc.

35deaf0f101526bb113ea69f79934f2b

(436)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:31 PM

I think you're good then :). I like my steel cut oats too and when eaten a couple time a week don't think theyll kill me. ohh and I do love oreos too... too bad my belly doesn't!

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on December 13, 2012
at 03:52 AM

Oats don't have gluten, they have gliadin, although most are processed in same machines as glutinous grains so probably have some residually...

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on December 12, 2012
at 08:45 PM

Haha, Oreos are my favorite form of gluten. ;)

4
5f678ffff153bfc8a17ac1ee438c054f

on December 12, 2012
at 07:19 PM

It seems like initially when you cut out carbs, you had entered ketosis, and that is why you had the taste in your mouth.

Carbs are good, but gluten is bad. Regardless of symptoms. Did you only try four weeks? And are you sure you were 100% gluten free for that time? It is not as simple as that.

If you can lose weight and eat other carbs, just stay away from gluten. In nearly every form common to us, it is highly processed, and should be avoided just like everything else that is highly processed.

Check out "Wheat Belly" by Dr. William Davis. He spells it out nicely.

Just that four week test isn't the only reason to cut out gluten. There are also anti-nutrients and indigestible fibers that fight the absorption of other vitamins and minerals and beats up your gut lining.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 12, 2012
at 08:26 PM

You are right in that I entered ketosis. Yes, I was totally 100% gluten free. Four weeks was recommended from the article I read: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/gluten-what-you-dont-know_b_379089.html I am all for avoiding processed foods. I am just looking for variety in my diet. I am not looking to indulge in white bread and white pasta. I am considering wholemeal bread, occasionally. Also, I have introduced oats & rice - without these your variety is very limited. I am interested to know of the backing for this theory of how gluten prohibits absorption of nutrients.

5f678ffff153bfc8a17ac1ee438c054f

(1405)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:45 PM

I had a low iron problem too! Even though you said your iron is perfect now, I also read that tea can strip the body of iron, I forgot why, but I drank a lot of tea and my doctor said that was another reason my iron was low. But if you add lemon to your tea, it blocks those anti-nutrients in the tea, so that iron can still be absorbed. Just thought it was interesting!

35deaf0f101526bb113ea69f79934f2b

(436)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:35 PM

a note on the absorption of nutrients... I was incredibly low on iron my entire life, so much so that every time I had blood work, my doctor would but me on 3x the normal iron dose supplement. Even on that much iron, my blood work would not improve because I was not absorbing it properly. 3 months gluten free and my iron is perfect WITHOUT supplementing. Do note though that I have noticed that I am gluten sensitive. I get a bad stomach ache is I eat it. This might not apply to those who tolerate it fine.

5f678ffff153bfc8a17ac1ee438c054f

(1405)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:12 PM

The best way to get variety is to be creative with what you have. That means new spices, and new ways to prepare vegetables, and stuff like that. For example, if you are craving pasta, or want something like it, you can julienne slice up some zucchini, or you can make spaghetti squash. White rice is actually better for your gut, because it does not have the germ of the rice plant like brown rice does. I know flax seed isn't completely excepted as "paleo" but it is so versatile, and can be used occasionally. Again, I suggest you pick up "Wheat Belly" it will answer all your questions!

2
9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on December 12, 2012
at 07:18 PM

I'm also not gluten sensitive, but I stay away from grains mainly because they are empty calories, and I like white rice and sweet potatoes better for that purpose. I eat gluten a few times a year, mainly due to socializing or as part of a feast.

Having said that, many say that you will still get negative effects from long-term gluten consumption even though you don't react to it. Unfortunately it's not researched, and seems like speculation based on sensible but unsubstantiated assumptions and perhaps stretched reasoning. In other words, unfortunately it appears that the jury is out on gluten for those who aren't sensitive to it.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:29 PM

Yep, you are right.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 12, 2012
at 08:14 PM

I agree that gluten products are not as nutritious as say, sweet potato, though I consider gluten simply for variety - and it does have a benefit of being a carb, which is important in itself. I also came to the conclusion that the dangerous effects of gluten is speculation and stretched reasoning that needs way more research

00cd3b6f51530a6832fcda1712edbec3

(2411)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:16 PM

Wisper, it's contradictory to say you avoid grains and eat white rice. Rice *is* a grain.

1
3f0a69f164d8fac2cdee80c19526f83f

on December 12, 2012
at 08:07 PM

Many people are drawn to a paleo lifestyle because of the benefits to their overall health. Your body weight will adjust to a healthy weight upon eating the way our bodies have been designed to eat. This fact sometimes causes underweight folks to gain, and more often than not, overweight people to lose weight. Because of the intensity of your exercise you absolutely need to have carbs in your diet, especially if you are feeling lousy without them. Eating carbs however is not equivalent to eating grains.

I personally began this lifestyle because of chronic illness in my parents and in other relatives of my parent's generation. I thought, what can I do to avoid the diseases so prevalent in those closest to me. Heart disease, cancer, chronic pain, diabetes, hypertension, etc. And the answer for me has been to radically change my diet. I did lose weight, but that has always been a side benefit, rather than a primary objective.

But gluten, even for those without documented sensitivities, is harmful to our bodies. I would definitely suggest that you continue reading and researching as there is a ton of information about why we all should avoid wheat.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:02 PM

I am interested in your statement that carbs are not equivalent to grains. For one, sweet potato and wholemeal bread are both a source of carbohydrates. In relation to the other aspects of their equivalence, I have read various articles on why gluten/wheat is bad, and it appears that the information put forward is lacking backing. The research put into this topic seems to fall short. When I read the material I am presented with theories. I cannot buy into this without empirical evidence. I am not on a gluten rant. I am seeking genuine proof of the negative effects of gluten.

3f0a69f164d8fac2cdee80c19526f83f

(205)

on December 15, 2012
at 06:28 PM

Carbohydrates are a macro-nutrient and grains are a source of carbs. Therefore the two are not equivalent. However, what I was hoping to convey was that grains are not the only source of carbs. As you indicated, sweet potatoes are one very great source. I am not sure what research you have read so far, but no amount of legitimate, scientific research will convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced. You may perhaps want to self-experiment to determine what, if any, improvements in your well-being become apparent after removing toxic food from your body.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 16, 2012
at 02:43 PM

I find it odd that you think I do not want to be convinced. I am seeking truth, and thought I had made that clear. Surely those who say gluten is toxic, without solid proof, are convinced, themselves? It is healthy to question things. When you propose for me to remove toxic food from my body, do you specifically mean gluten?Because I have tried this, and re-adding it made no impact. I understand when you say grains are a source of carbs, and know that they are not the best source, though I feel there is somewhat of a witch hunt going on here.

0
3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

on December 14, 2012
at 09:01 PM

It's been great to read all your comments and has been helpful.

I hear a lot of Paleo folk say that grains are empty calories/ anti-nutrients. This is interesting, as I read steel-cut oats are high in B vitamins, iron & fibre and that brown rice is high in magnesium, selenium & fibre. It seems as though these grains are in fact rich in nutrients.

Then you have gluten, found in bread/pasta. This imo is a different matter, and I think really are empty calories. The only thing you'll get out of them is some energy. Then there is the intolerance/sensitivity, and those who are intolerant/sensitive should obviously avoid.

I've decided to avoid gluten, and stick with these carbs to keep me going: sweet potato, new potato, brown rice, bananas, chickpeas, kidney beans & steel-cut oats. Any insights/criticisms?

I am also interested to know what users think of this link: http://courtside-courtandkelly.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/5-best-carbs-for-athletes.html

0
E773ca32b29508bae2055579a26afa98

on December 13, 2012
at 07:07 AM

Gluten is a suspected bad player in a lot of areas outside of tummy upset, nasty stuff that rears its sinister head in seemingly unrelated ways down the road.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 14, 2012
at 08:37 PM

So I hear. Though I believe this is not the case for everyone.

0
Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

on December 13, 2012
at 04:22 AM

These links may interest you if you havn't seen them already.

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2011/04/is-gluten-making-my-gut-leaky-shorter.html

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2011/10/wheat-belly-toll-of-hubris-on-human.html

http://chriskresser.com/the-gluten-thyroid-connection

http://chriskresser.com/pioneering-researcher-alessio-fasano-m-d-on-gluten-autoimmunity-leaky-gut

Masterjohn is not 'paleo' perse but being dogmatic about what is or not 'paleo' for me isn't what paleohacks should be about - it's about wellbeing. Just because grains and gluten are problematic for many people are far from ideal and are likely harmful, doesn't mean it will be for you. So I applaud you for raising teh question.

Anyway, the article and comments aare pretty interesting. The consensus seesm to be that strong evidence about gluten hasn't really been found but there is reason to think it is no ideal. In saying that do I think some properly fermented sourdough rye is going to be bad for you if you're not sensitive and eating a meat, veg, fruit etc diet overall? Grains aren't ideal certainly in terms of nutrient density and the presense of anti-nutrents and its insoluble fibre, and I myself abstain for many of the reasons elucidated in previous posts/the articles I linked to above. Compared to other sources of carbohyrdrate there is nothign in grains generally that I consider desireble at the moment. But if you don't think there's a problem for youself in your context then go for it - cultivating wellbeing isn't about adhering to a set of presciptiosn that may not apply to your context. Find out what works for you - whether it is viewed as 'paleo' or not, who cares if you're well?

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 14, 2012
at 08:36 PM

Thank you for the links, I will check them out. You say grains aren't ideal from the anti-nutrient perspective, though isn't brown rice high in fibre? http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/healthy-eating/the-nutrition-of-brown-rice.html#b http://www.rd.com/health/healthy-eating/brown-rice-nutrientpacked-and-fiberrich/

0
28dab519706b8b296b600907c88bec16

on December 12, 2012
at 09:10 PM

I'd like to clarify that gluten is not a carbohydrate, it's a protein. I am not saying that to be rude or unhelpful! I believe this is a good question (which unfortunately does not seem to have a satisfactory answer for many people). I just wanted to clear that up, and it hadn't been stated in the other responses. I am inclined to agree with Britt; if gluten-containing grains don't seem to bother you, then eat them if you want, but obviously try to stick to foods that don't contain other unwanted ingredients. The short-term and long-term effects of gluten on the human body are so difficult to determine, as are the other factors (genetic, dietary, environmental, psychological, etc.) that might contribute to or be confused with a reaction to gluten. To me, there is no extant experimental design that would convince me that scientists fully understand how gluten affects the body, and anecdotal evidence is only helpful to a point. This is how I feel in general about most nutritional and other biomedical theories, though. It is very frustrating not to know for sure and to try and reconcile all the different perspectives that are out there. I know it's been said so many times, but I really feel that the best advice is to do what seems to work for you. Personally, I avoid gluten (and all grains except white rice) right now except for in desserts. I am a SERIOUS sucker for cupcakes and chocolate chip cookies, and even though I otherwise eat pretty paleo, I will not deny myself those treats when they're available and I want them. I believe in the health benefits of doing something that makes me happy more than I believe in the negative effects of gluten.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 14, 2012
at 08:30 PM

Not at all, all this nutrient talk can get confusing, I appreciate the clarification. I do agree that how one reacts to nutrients is dependent on many factors. And not something scientists can easily determine. I also agree to do what works for you. Oh how I miss cakes and biscuits. I do not allow myself these things. I ask myself, what is more important - my need to indulge and self-soothe, or my need to lose weight? However, 40g dark chocolate a week is my little treat =) for the antioxidants ;)

0
71ef6fa9da502f1caa096f3047262f28

(130)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:06 PM

Paleo is great for weight loss, to get more lean or for the sake of being healthy. I agree that gluten is not ideal. Historically and ancestrally, it has no place in our diet. If you look at the why behind paleo and how we evolved you will see we weren't designed to eat grains which is why they cause problems (either in more serious cases of allergy, intolerances or in less serious in weight gain, excess fat accumulation). I agree with many of the posters above. Grains contain empty calories void of nutrients.

However, the paleo diet doesn't advocate low carb or no carb. I don't know how you got that impression. Paleo advocates GOOD CARB (so carbs from fruits and vegetables). You can definitely add in other starches that are gluten free such as rice, potatoes, other starchy tubers, etc.

Everyone needs a balance of protein, fats and carbs. Especially those that exercise. However, if you eat better carbs: you'll look better (more lean, lose weight), you'll feel better and you'll perform better at the gym. Just remember grains and breads fill us up so you might need to increase your intake of fruits and veggies to feel as full and satisfied.

Grains and gluten also cause insulin spikes which is why people often crash and feel sleepy after eating them. I am paleo and I crossfit and I can tell you I feel worse and perform worse at the gym when I eat them.

With that being said, many people have cheat meals. I by no means eat paleo 24/7. And it's also very expensive. Do what works for you. If you can't cut out grains completely I would try to drastically reduce them, they don't do anything beneficial for us besides taste good.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 14, 2012
at 08:22 PM

I understand that grains are empty calories, though you recommend rice as a good gluten free carb and that is a grain? If grains and breads fill us up, then why would we need fruit/veg to feel fuller? I am not one to crash/feel sleepy after eating grains/gluten. I have high levels of energy =)

0
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 12, 2012
at 08:05 PM

I don't think it is gluten (unless you have a specific sensitivity to it.) It is where you get gluten -- grains.

Of course gluten sensitivity and gluten intolerance are relatively new concepts, and some recent research is showing that close to a third of the population have some level of intolerance to gluten. And, while it is not acute, long term, chronic exposure may be an issue and you don't know it.

But I think the bigger problem is the grains -- and the associated anti-nutrients, lectins, and phtates.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 14, 2012
at 08:40 PM

If grains are a problem and contain anti-nutrients, then why do I keep reading brown rice is high in fibre, selenium and magnesium?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 14, 2012
at 08:59 PM

It does, and on paper looks like an amazing option. Unfortunately brown rice also sports a pretty impressive phytic acid levels (10mg per 1g brown rice). That phytic acid binds with teh minerals reducing their bio-availability. You can get around it by soaking for 24 hours -- http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-way-to-soak-brown-rice.html . But I'd rather get my fiber, selenium, and magnesium from natural sources like eggs and leafy greens and meat.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 16, 2012
at 02:20 PM

http://nutritiondiva.quickanddirtytips.com/phytic-acid-in-grains.aspx I was particularly interested in the part, 'Is Soaking Grains Worth the Trouble?'

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 16, 2012
at 02:08 PM

I've read up on phytic acid levels in brown rice, and apparently this is unlikely to lead to nutrient deficiencies unless you are eating large amounts with every meal. So I suppose if you want to consume grains, eating them in moderation should keep you out of trouble in terms of phytic acid. It has become clearer how grains are calorie-dense as opposed to nutrient-dense, though I cannot stick to only sweet potato, squash & pumpkin for carbs, and considering how the only real problem with grains is their lack of nutrients, I think I will add grains in moderation for variety.

0
2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

on December 12, 2012
at 07:14 PM

Carbs on paleo are starches (sweet potato, squash, pumpkin). Please do some research about grains.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on December 12, 2012
at 07:19 PM

OP clearly implied she's done the research. Just because she goes against orthodoxy doesn't mean it's not a valid question - one that I've often wondered about, and asked here. And never received a constructive answer.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 12, 2012
at 08:40 PM

Also, you say grains are void of nutrients. I have recently included brown rice into my diet which is a source of B vitamins, phosphorus, magnesium, manganese and selenium. However, I read that this grain is pretty much gluten-free. I have also included oats into my diet (soon to be steel cut). These are high in protein & fibre, and contain calcium, iron, magnesium, potassium, phosphorus, sodium, zinc, manganese and copper. - Apparently gluten is absent from steel-cut oats, but may occur from cross-contamination. Surely this is nutrient dense?

2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

(3043)

on December 12, 2012
at 07:43 PM

Yes, she is basically looking for the a.ok. I'm saying I can't give her the answer because it is individual.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on December 12, 2012
at 07:21 PM

OP clearly states she has done the research. Just because she goes against paleo orthodoxy doesn't invalidate the question itself. Many people don't react to gluten. I've asked similar questions in the past, and all I've received are handwaving and dismissal.

2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

(3043)

on December 12, 2012
at 07:26 PM

I'm not handwaving or dismissing. Its more like why ask the question. Do what suits you. People who eat paleo avoid grains, plain and simple. Grains are cheap, but void of nutrients. They don't bother everyone in the same way (i.e. obesity vs. autoimmune disorders). I prefer to enjoy more nutrient dense foods but thats my choice.

3234d7f93fea142f9124663eee130151

(15)

on December 12, 2012
at 08:29 PM

@Chelsea, I am not looking for the A OK. I am looking for more information on why gluten might be a bad dietary addition, despite what I have already covered.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:31 PM

Most of the anti-nutrients are excluded in white rice, so apparently brown rice is less healthy. How big of an impact those (trace amounts of?) anti-nutrients are is a whole another matter which is another topic I'd like more info on.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on December 12, 2012
at 07:30 PM

I'm in the same boat. But you're not even trying to answer OP's question, which is the purpose of this site.

2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

(3043)

on December 13, 2012
at 02:28 PM

There are those nutrients, but they are not as bioavailable as those in meats, eggs and fats(coconut, tallow, lard). And from a monetary perspective I would rather get a steak than a sandwich, because I know by calorie and nutrition im getting a better buy.

2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

(3043)

on December 13, 2012
at 02:29 PM

What im saying it is entirely a person by person thing. So I can't answer for you. For me grains make me bloated and cause mental distress. For you, you may gel with them:)

-1
Ee6932fe54ad68039a8d5f7a8caa0468

(2668)

on December 12, 2012
at 07:25 PM

hi, paleo cuts out grains, and as such, gluten will be out too. however, if weightloss is your only goal, there are a ton of ways to lose weight. you could do it eating nothing but gluten grains, frankly. you just need to create an energy deficit. paleo goes a step further, and looks at long-term health and degeneration, it's not principally concerned with weight loss. good luck!

Ee6932fe54ad68039a8d5f7a8caa0468

(2668)

on December 12, 2012
at 09:02 PM

@paleopapa, if they're losing weight, they're in a deficit. no two ways about it.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 12, 2012
at 08:07 PM

@Paleo Papa -- it is as simple as creating a deficit. However, Calories In - BMR - Calories Burned Exercising -- is perhaps too simplistic.

Fce356005a83353009c11567c217a9bd

on December 12, 2012
at 07:52 PM

I disagree with your energy deficit. It's just not that simple. You can't apply the laws of thermodynamics to a chaotic system like the body. Many folks lose major lbs after embracing the Paleo lifestyle; consuming way more calories (e.g. no deficit) than before they made the change.

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