3

votes

did anyone leave paleo?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created April 16, 2012 at 7:04 AM

ive been paleo for a year and a half to help me recover from anorexia physically, my paleo includes yoghurt, sometimes butter, creme fraiche and 100% chocolate, heaped teaspoon of honey a week maybe. the rest is tuna, shrimp, scallops, chicken, red meat (grass fed yes)salads, no fruit after being scared about fructose, cant tolerate coconut oil either, and olive oil on salads sweet potatoes and recently white potatoes, dabbled with white rice cakes in the past but not a great fan. anyway, during this paleo period i still do not have periods, i have psoriasis flared up out of nowhere, i have constipation despite ridiculous amounts of vegetables and sprouted flaxseed powder every morning, acid reflux, itchiness,a severe state of anxiety, depression resulting on anti-depressants until i stopped taking them five days ago, bad skin- eyelids flare ups of peeling and redness, slow digestion, unstable thinking, suicidal thoughts, headaches...ermm.... if im being honest, ive generally been feeling under the weather for the past six months. prior to this (before i fell into anorexia a year and a half ago again- its been an on off battle since age 11 and im now 25 years old) i was having periods, my digestion was so fast i felt i was able to eat anything and had lot of energy and a stable mood, no outbursts or tearfulness like now...but heres the glitch- i was eating whole wheat toast with almond butter or yoghurt and homemade granola, i was eating soup and goats cheese and bread or wholemeal pitta and homemade hummus and carrots or jacket potato for lunch always with salads or rye and avocado and olive oil and sometimes homemade granola with cream or dark chocolate afterwards, i would have a protein and a salad for dinner always, sometimes homemade fries or a slice of farmers market bread and butter, or sometimes wed go out to dinner and id have scallops or fried chicken or prawns and salad.. sometimes id eat icecream or yoghurt and fruit for a dessert... erm i felt like i had mastered my body, i felt ... happy... i felt healthy... i ran, i worked out, i was jolly in nature, i didnt worry... erm now, food hs become the enemy a bit in the fact that i have stuck to the paleo plan albeit adding dairy because from a little girl yoghurt was the only thing id eat for my eczema that would clear it up ... but truth is, ive been ignoring it for a long while because all the evidence suggests that it cant be true and plus if i dont follow paleo i dont know where to go from here- i thought id sussed 'the right way to eat'since discovering it but truth is- i cant eat too much meat and nor do i have any desire to.. erm... im allergic to fish except for tuna scallops and prawns, so ive recently bough omega 3, vitamin D, vitamin K2 to see if my overal feeling of so low dissolves.... ive even gome through phases of eating just salads for breakfast raw crudites for lunch to see if anything helps... im currenty looking at the new psoriasis all over my legs and thinking.... why isnt paleo working 100% for me? is it really THAT YOGHURT or THAT 100% CHOCOLATE or is it.... digestion? like is good health- good digestion? when i was clearing out constantly (!!!) skin glowing, ovulating, abundant energy now everyone is asking where i've gone mentally, worse thing is mentally im so bad im checking into priory after getting back from holiday because i am not thinking straight anymore, add to that nightmares and dizziness, wheeziness on my chest and inability to run much anymore- used to run for an hour etc on high level- i know paleo people dont agree with that... im sue ill be met with lots of criticism, but after a year and a half of paleo eating im starting to wonder why i feel worse? any help, i truly mean this, is just going to be amazing to hear. has anyone switched from paleo to a different incorporation of eating?

5b5b7efa9b3df6c2d80e43883e4957c1

(70)

on May 16, 2012
at 11:05 AM

Very true re Pyroluria, although I would be careful with taking copper if you have Pyroluria, most likely someone suffering from this condition already has copper excess. I suffer from Pyroluria and have a bad reaction to copper.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 26, 2012
at 08:00 PM

But I am aware Peat is not a cure-all, never said that. It works really well for me at the moment, but like Senneth says : if it stops working or if I find something better, I'll move to a different diet. It's not a religion, I'm just trying to find what works best for me, and Peat opened up my possibilities by changing my perspective on things.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 26, 2012
at 07:59 PM

And also the thoughts of Peat on PUFAs as non-essential, but I think Peat addressed this quite well in his fish oil and his PUFA post where he talks about Burr's experiments.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 26, 2012
at 07:58 PM

Harris never talked to Peat, so how the heck could Peat address his critics? As far as I know Peat doesn't even know who Danny Roddy is. Danny Roddy has addressed Harris' thoughts btw : http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2012/4/9/kurt-harris-ray-peat-the-ghost-of-hans-selye.html The only thing Danny didn't address as far as I know are Peats thoughts on HIV.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 26, 2012
at 07:55 PM

Can you give some examples of *assumptions*? I failed to notice them. What do you mean by *algorithms*? I didn't pay for a test, nor did I pay them, but I handled pretty well. Peat and Danny have a clear idea of what a good diet is based on (shellfish, dairy, coconut oil,...). What flaws did Harris address? He only pointed out that *Ray Peat is full of shit*. You gotta give examples if you're gonna bash someone.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 26, 2012
at 07:37 PM

Really Peat's articles assume everyone has thyroid issues. I tried Peat and it was really energizing for about 1 week before I ended up sick as a dog. It's also worth noting that there are no algorithms offered by Peat or Danny on how to figure out what is good and what isn't. You have to pay to test, and pay one of them to read the test. It's also worth noting that Harris and other critics of Peat have pointed out several factual flaws in Peat's writings which neither Peat or Danny have addressed.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 26, 2012
at 07:27 PM

Milla - Ambimorph called me on this too. I have to say that I decided you run an experiment and went back to really low-carb even though I previously had problems at VLC levels. So far no issues. I think appetite suppression is an issue for some. You end up severely hypocaloric. It isn't what you eat, it's the total lack of calories, possibly not enough bile to absorb all the fat you are eating.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 17, 2012
at 12:08 PM

Nobody answered my question though. It's easy to bash Peat if you don't read him. When I heard that Ray Peat advocated strained orange juice and milk I thought it was some kind of freak-diet, until I spent a whole week listening to East West Healing podcasts, read 30+ of his articles and gradually made changes to test his ideas.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 17, 2012
at 12:04 PM

Just wanted to add that I've finally managed to sleep through the night, by eating lots of ice cream. I'm probably gonna switch to grass-fed cheese/milk soon.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 17, 2012
at 12:01 PM

@Ambimorph it's not that easy to set up a decent forum like this one. As far as I know, you have to pay quite a lot to implement stackexchange and you don't even have full control. There are "forums" about Ray Peat, but their implementation is quite weak most of the time. This up- and downvote system is pretty cool. I'm thinking of writing one myself, immitating most of the aspects on here but with support for private messaging etc., but it's a lot of work and I don't wanna sit behind a computer all day.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 17, 2012
at 11:59 AM

@PaleoMouth You're absolutely right. My list was indeed just a list of bad common tendencies, not negative aspects of a paleo diet. On the other hand : I may have bashed paleo in an unfair way, Peat's diet is ridiculized way more. People just summarize him with "OJ + ice cream", and then say the diet doesn't work for them. A lot of my points are still quite valid though, like the fructose fear, nuts, the focus on diet only, ...

535fafe8afe6923870905c707c4f4454

(720)

on April 17, 2012
at 10:28 AM

"I think there are several bad common tendencies of people trying the paleo diet:"

535fafe8afe6923870905c707c4f4454

(720)

on April 17, 2012
at 10:26 AM

I usually really enjoy your inputs Korion but this post struck a nerve. I don't want to pick apart your whole post but for example, I mean, what about Paleo fundamentally suggests not eating the whole animal? Maybe are you struggling with the freedom to think for youself within Paleo dieting, rather than say have your diet specifically defined by someone eg Peat? I consider myself Paleo and none of those points apply to me, although it's been a journey to this point - Still the journey is valuable in finding the right tweaks personally. I would agree with your post if you reworded to:

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 17, 2012
at 09:46 AM

... nourishing principals but i feel ill have to incorporate more starches and broths as you and many have suggested. liver, bone marrow, more fat. i am really thankful to you all for your opinions and i will perhaps buy an enzyme, i used to take betaine hydrochloride? but i stopped. perhaps a papaya enzyme.. anyway, sorry for the long reply, your suggestions are going to be taken on board as id rather not resort to some means the professionals are advising.. glad you are better now lucy

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 17, 2012
at 09:43 AM

...overdue. and as of your suggestions you are spot on... yesterday i added organic white rice, sweet potatoes and kerrygold and i didnt wake up in night sweats last night and my digestion seems to have improved..nor did i have nightmares... not sure if any of that is in any way connected but im relieved at that at least. thankyou so much for the number however i live in the UK but my husband and therapist are aware of my... well, they just know i need observing abit. i guess ive been so focused on getting over the anorexia ive someway turned paleo into another obsession. i believe in its...

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 17, 2012
at 09:40 AM

... i embarked on paleo. however, i am going to buy some organic chicken stock, and i will stay in touch with my doctors although the only issue i have is they have been trying to put me on antidepressants and beta blockers for my panic attacks and i feel beta blockers would slow down my already slow heart rate! i havent got long to go weight wise, but i guess recovering on my own for the past year and a half has been emotionally and physically exhausting let alone stressing over the types of non-paleo food that could cause XYZ... Anyway, i will definitely go to a nutritionist,its a bit...

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 17, 2012
at 09:37 AM

Thankyou happy now, your effort with your response is really appreciated. what you say about electrolytes makes plenty of sense because obviously years of anorexia you overdose of laxatives...which messes with electro's etc.. but luckily i do add salt on to my foods sensing that i needed too. to be honest yesterday when i posted that commenti had skin itching, stomach pains, peeling skin... and i did/do need people like you with suggestions because 1) have been in therapy for 3 years and relapsed into anorexia during that time...now recovering and 2) my physical health was far better before..

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 16, 2012
at 07:53 PM

http://www.artisanbread-abo.com/ I'm from england but im pretty sure they deliver to united states aswell but best to check!!

99bd7f8b1170a1e9e56b93d9d53b51cc

(193)

on April 16, 2012
at 07:15 PM

Hey Lu - which website do you know for fermented buckwheat/rice? Thanks!

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 16, 2012
at 06:16 PM

thank you all for your insights they really mean alot to me mainly because ive been watching my health decline for six months and still been marching on forth with forcing certain things down my neck... i think intuitive eating, something i did on my first attempt at recovery without knowing it was a phrase that someone had coined, worked well for me, and if i combine it with all of your advice, lisa also, im coming to the conclusion that its trial and error and listening to your body, as i so vehemently did NOT do for so long when i was previously starving myself. thanks to all!

B9637ddb9a9a5c6a7306e3c804fcd21d

(3217)

on April 16, 2012
at 03:54 PM

Ambimorph - I agree that low carb isn't a cast-iron cause of hypothyroid; low carb works for some people (perhaps ancestry has something to do with it); but for some it causes low temperature, fatigue, and other low thyroid symptoms. Perhaps it has to do with one as an individual, but Chris Masterjohn mentions that many people with hypothyroid symptoms on low-carb felt better on going higher carb, because carb intake correlates with T3.

B9637ddb9a9a5c6a7306e3c804fcd21d

(3217)

on April 16, 2012
at 03:45 PM

Lu - just an idea for breakfast: I personally have some salmon caviar (keta), various fruit with raw yoghurt & honey, and eggs steamed in butter & raw milk (or sometimes I just have the yolks raw). And raw cheese. Just a suggestion :-)

B9637ddb9a9a5c6a7306e3c804fcd21d

(3217)

on April 16, 2012
at 03:34 PM

Dave and his number porn...;-)

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on April 16, 2012
at 03:22 PM

Besides, everyone knows that you have to take Ray Peat with a tablespoon of salt.

Fc64db6a555559762432d503a1dbad19

(1478)

on April 16, 2012
at 02:44 PM

A lot of people have a difficult time digesting meat and dairy together. Perhaps try to eat them at different times of the day and not together if you do not want to give up dairy. Every body is different and you may have a problem digesting proteins. Look up Pyroluria as a possible cause.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 16, 2012
at 02:01 PM

why do people always say to take Ray Peat with a grain of salt? You gotta do that with everybody... Great answer though.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on April 16, 2012
at 01:49 PM

The idea that someone needs to be following a particular diet to participate here, is, of course, ridiculous. However the idea of a Peatarian forum is great. Maybe cliff can start one on his blog site: http://co2factor.blogspot.com/

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on April 16, 2012
at 01:41 PM

I would definitely agree with the statement: "the Inuit are not proof that, say, zero-carb is good for everyone." "Everyone" is too broad, and "proof" is too strong. However, I consider "ZC causes hypothyroid" to be a modern myth, replacing older ones about kidneys and the like. This post doesn't tackle that directly, but is related: http://paleohacks.com/questions/78343/is-lowered-t3-resulting-from-a-low-carb-diet-problematic .

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on April 16, 2012
at 01:38 PM

Some great points, especially, imo, the one about creating a diet from isolated bits of nutritional information. Gnolls has a good recent post about that: http://www.gnolls.org/2982/anti-nutritionism-l-canavanine-and-the-limitations-of-n1-self-experimentation/.

A1a0baccef58499acf9ceb3c874997f2

(675)

on April 16, 2012
at 01:30 PM

Wonderfully written, and stellar information.

Be7638d955fb773dcc0a6183b6170f94

(0)

on April 16, 2012
at 01:23 PM

Thankyou yogini for your account of your recovery experience all of your insights and comments have really been so helpful.

Be7638d955fb773dcc0a6183b6170f94

(0)

on April 16, 2012
at 01:16 PM

... Consistency to good health is sticking to what is good for you

Be7638d955fb773dcc0a6183b6170f94

(0)

on April 16, 2012
at 01:16 PM

Thankyou Khaled another response that assures me I'm okay to listen to my body instead of ploughing on with what's "right" while my health suffers. I suppose the only answer in life is there is no one answer, it's just whatever answer that makes you feel right is THE "answer" I suppose on reality I'm a prime example in terms of an oddity That can't eat omega 3- salmon, Mackerel etc which health gurus tout as essential but my Body severely rejects it.. So I guess health to one, or hundreds of people, may have to be tweaked for another. I guess when I look at longevity studies the only.....

D6a5a11734337208246e7d53184c8197

(250)

on April 16, 2012
at 12:30 PM

"any diet you adopt should serve your needs" fits the bill exactly! As someone dealing with recovery from an eating disorder myself, I've found that ANY restriction or addition to my diet, even if it's "healthy" is a bad idea if it comes from dogma and not from what my body and mind need. Trying to be hard core paleo sometimes made things worse. When I give myself permission to eat bread or even (god forbid) twinkles, I find I don't want them and am very happy with grass fed beef and some nuts and cherry tomatoes. You need to put yourself, not paleo, first. Good luck honey.

1e36119906da54831601a7c23674f581

(698)

on April 16, 2012
at 12:04 PM

Korion, I would love for you to tell more about your personal experience going Peatarian. I'm also looking to clear up my skin, which so far has cleared 90%+ paleo, possibly getting better from here. I think experimentation is a great thing, and what paleo is all about anyway.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 16, 2012
at 11:29 AM

Do I have to leave paleohacks now because I'm not technically paleo?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 16, 2012
at 11:25 AM

@lu I just eat random stuff I find. I don't go into the fasting craze at all, I eat whenever I want. If that means I eat 10 times, so be it. Fasting messes me up. Love oysters (which is weird since I used to hate all things in the ocean), and regularly put a fair amount of sugar on and in everything. If you wanna gain some weight (you probably want lean mass?), you could try skim milk. I believe Cliff had lots of success with that.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 16, 2012
at 11:19 AM

*I know no Paleo folk on supps other than fish-oil.* then you don't know many paleo followers. Or maybe you just know people that do it for weight loss. If I was just doing this for weight loss, I would not take vitamins. But I'm doing this for mental health (autism & memory), skin (only got really well on Ray Peat diet), energy and warmth. Mental above anything. Once you turn from a shy boy into a social guy everything seems possible, and mental health becomes superpower. Paleo was good, Peatarian is great.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 16, 2012
at 11:15 AM

I've seen people supplementing 200k UI of retinol and not be able to get their level up. I've seen people supplementing iron and still be low. Eating != absorbing, I can't believe you question that.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 16, 2012
at 11:14 AM

Because I started out as paleo and there is not Peatarian website. Where do you get your calcium from? I guess you assume you get it from veggies. Pitch black room is helpful, but it's not more than a band-aid. Much of the nutrients are fat-soluble? Really? All the B vitamins are not, nor is vitamin C, nor are the minerals. You don't make much sense to me. I've been on a Terry Wahles diet for a LONG time, and believe me, I didn't get any nutrients out of the veggies. People just assume....

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 16, 2012
at 09:05 AM

yeh sorry beefwalker, ive introduced potatoes last week, so eaten about three, but for a year and a half up till thenavoided them except for 2 sweet potatoes or squash a week....yeh im highly allergic to salmon, mackeral- for instance i really WANT to eat these things so yesterday i put some mackeral on my hand then washed it off and two mins later itchiness and bumps came up on my hand, same with if i kiss my husband and hes eaten salmon- swollen lips!! but strangely tuna, shrimp and scallops are fine. i once ate cod and had to go to hospital. nutrition seems hard!

4c9c4d3b6de06c4ac282e7e40ec5992f

(209)

on April 16, 2012
at 08:37 AM

Hi Lu, Could you clear a couple of things up, as you post is a little confusing - in that I'm not sure if you're 'eating' potatoes etc. or you can't tolerate them. It's quite odd that you're alergic to fish if you CAN eat tuna. Have you tried other oily fish, such as sardines, mackerel and what about salmon? My good friend (an ex dancer) was anorexic and found her system was VERY sensitive to all sorts of food, so I can see how it might be hard for you, but this improved for her with reintroduction of difficult foods in small amounts.

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 16, 2012
at 08:33 AM

thanks uggla i have read bits of matt actually, hes quite controversial about some things but i believe in his body temp analysis and low metabolism/starvation mode and cold hands etc!

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 16, 2012
at 08:31 AM

okay ill try and clock in those sleep hours thanks. i really am desperate now because i do not like the thought of taking anti-anxiety/anti-depressants/beta-blockers as all my family and doctors tell me to do, for the rest of my life if there is a natural, alternative via lifestyle!!

4c9c4d3b6de06c4ac282e7e40ec5992f

(209)

on April 16, 2012
at 08:27 AM

Uggla - lots more water is not good advice based on current science. Most people drink too much water as it is. We get most of our water needs from our food, and should only drink when thirsty. (The 8 glasses a day is a well debunked myth). For optimal health, we should also avoid liquid with meals, and our pee should never (contrary to outdated popular opinion) ever be clear. It should always be slightly yellow. See Matt Stone's recent piece here: http://180degreehealth.com/2012/02/how-much-water-should-you-drink

4c9c4d3b6de06c4ac282e7e40ec5992f

(209)

on April 16, 2012
at 08:16 AM

The sleep thing is CRITICAL. (Every depressed person is 'sleep deprived' after all). Sure, it's easier said than done, but here's how I did it and it improved my mental state, my digestion and my health within a few short days. (1) I sleep in a pitch-black room. i.e. tape over any glowing lights, turn off your digital clock, put up blockout curtains. NOT ONE LIGHT. Not a charging laptop. Nothing. (2) I keep lights low in your house after dusk (helps melatonin production) (3) I use f.lux on my computers http://stereopsis.com/flux/ (4) I have a tablespoon of almond butter before bed.

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 16, 2012
at 08:13 AM

thankyou i really appreciate your comments and tips

4c9c4d3b6de06c4ac282e7e40ec5992f

(209)

on April 16, 2012
at 08:09 AM

Your relpy befuddles me... Why are you on a Paleo site if you're non-paleo? • Safe starches my arse. ;-) • We get plenty of calcium on a paleo diet. As our ancestors did. • Not all Paleo folks consume a lot of nuts. • Good sleep CAN be influenced (if not controlled) by sleeping in a PITCH black room with no blinking/glowing lights and keeping lights low after dusk. • Paleo folks get MORE of the nutrients in vegies as we eat them with FAT (much of the nutrients are fat-soluble). • We DON'T takes RDAs seriously. Govt. RDAs are for shit. • I know no Paleo folk on supps other than fish-oil.

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 16, 2012
at 08:06 AM

..... (continued) because of the omega 6 so i am wondering what is the best fat to add to my diet? coconut oil seems to give me a slippery flatulence!!!! nice..

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 16, 2012
at 08:06 AM

because i was so underweight i had no choice but to follow a modified paleo diet- when i say modified i mean yoghurt and raw cream occasionally and 100% chocolate- to bulk up the calories as if i tried to eat paleo and gain weight by eating a couple of steaks with butter, my body would shut down with the stress of the digestive overload and i would often feel exhausted as my body would have to digest meats etc, so adding greek yoghurt seemed to be less exhaustive for my tum! anyway, i digress, thanks maybe i thought i was consuming enough fat but am not? I am a little wary of olive oil now...

5af4bc9d2c390b0bcad9524f149c1b4f

(1101)

on April 16, 2012
at 08:04 AM

Yeah, no problem. :) And I puree liver in a blender and toss it into an ice cube tray. Freeze 'em, pop 'em out, and store them in the freezer. You can put them in stocks, meatloaf, sauces, whatever. I don't know much about Peat and his opinions and since weight gain is your goal (weight loss is mine), Korion may have some better info for you. We've all got to tweak how we eat to fit our own lives though, so don't get frustrated and give up! Just keep it whole and real foods. :)

8b982d4beccca9fcb85affe8d4bd4ff2

(1585)

on April 16, 2012
at 08:02 AM

Oh yes and add lots more water!

8b982d4beccca9fcb85affe8d4bd4ff2

(1585)

on April 16, 2012
at 08:01 AM

I have a problem to use the bathroom as well, and I am not suppose to strain because of a condition I have. Something that helped me was to take a magnesium supplement and to up my fat intake.

4c9c4d3b6de06c4ac282e7e40ec5992f

(209)

on April 16, 2012
at 07:59 AM

I really feel for you, sounds like you've had a real struggle. I'm not sure if Paleo is your problem here though, as it doesn't sound like you've been following a proper Paleo diet at all. Could you tell us how long you've been doing it? I too had problems with constipation when I began Paleo/slow-carb, and had to do a lot of research, where I found that it's usually not that you're eating too few vegetables but too little fat. You MUST consume quite a bit of fat in the Paleo diet. So, in what way can't you 'tolerate' coconut oil etc?

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 16, 2012
at 07:56 AM

thankyou, liver is something ive never tried but have stared at in the supermarket thinking.. buy it, but then i dont! your comment is really refreshing and ive never even heard of a peatarian,but organi meats, fat and icecream probably will speed up my digestion. i have to eat alot to put of weight- its taken me a year and a half of paleo to get to where i am now- still half a stone underweight- so nutrient dense foods may well help, thankyou. are there any particular foods you eat for breakfast?

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 16, 2012
at 07:53 AM

maybe i do need to add more fat thankyou, i think ill try organ meats, bone marrow perhaps. the thought of bone marrow seems to make me feel abit queezy but maybe i need to get through that and try it.. i have done this before, along with bone broth, but unfortunately never got the 'high' that some people talk of.im sure your 100% right on the stress thing inducing my stomach issues too thankyou

5af4bc9d2c390b0bcad9524f149c1b4f

(1101)

on April 16, 2012
at 07:40 AM

Not to say high fat intake = necessary. N = 1, as usual and some people find different macronutrient ratios work better for them (higher carb, no carb, whatever carb). I don't necessarily think ratios are something to think too hard about, but eating a little more fat might help.

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9 Answers

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B9637ddb9a9a5c6a7306e3c804fcd21d

(3217)

on April 16, 2012
at 10:29 AM

Hi lu,

Firstly may I say I feel for you in that you're going through a tough time; its so frustrating dealing with health problems with their endless potential causes and not seeing results despite trying your hardest.

And this effort is what seems to be the problem. One could also call it nutritionism. I realise I'm going to run into a lot of criticism with this, but its what I can recommend based on my experiences and research I have done. Canonical 'paleo' advice tends to break down causes and isolate miniscule compounds as potential causes, which can further worsen your problem because its the same thing as looking for a needle in a haystack. Too much stress, not enough sleep, too many nuts/dairy/avocados/fruit/chicken/insert-paleo-whipping-boy-here...I don't think thats a good approach to nutrition. I think the best approach to nutrition is a whole-foods, traditional diet. Your diet wasn't anywhere near as bad as the SAD before you went 'paleo'; it seems you weren't eating very much processed food, and the only problems I see are improperly prepared grains and refined sugar (fruit yoghurt?). So, your health issues really peaked once you went 'paleo' and started isolating certain components of your diet to search for causes when you ran into problems. Remember, paleo isn't about re-enactment. Eating grains, and any kind of raw seed for that matter isn't recommended because unless you properly prepare them,they contain anti-nutrients. Some people have issues with dairy. And so on and so forth.

But the reason why many people (including myself) run into problems, and even nutrient deficiencies on paleo is because we blindly remove entire food groups from our diets without making up for them, or, even worse, over-thinking things and trying to make up for it artificially, e.g. with supplements, and ending up with disbalance. Have a look at this: http://www.cheeseslave.com/are-you-suffering-from-magnesium-deficiency/

Another example: the Inuit are not proof that, say, zero-carb is good for everyone. Zero-carb tends to provoke hypothyroidism in some people who try it; the reason why the Inuit aren't all infertile and hypothyroid, however, is probably because they harvested moose thyroid glands for food and ate absolutely nose-to-tail (not just liver...everything. No part of the animal went to waste). Which is why most children were born nine months after moose-mating season (from an interview with Chris Kresser).

The bottom line here is that there is no one-size-fits-all diet.You don't give much info on your current diet, and - no offense - the formatting of your question makes it slightly hard to read and interpret. However, it seems like you did better on a higher-carb diet, and with dairy.

Nevertheless, since you have so many health issues, I think a healing protocol, like GAPS, would be in order. I think its a good idea to start from 'scratch' and heal your body; it has been shown to help both digestive and other systemic (even psychological) issues, and even reverse food allergies. Here is some more information about the GAPS diet: http://www.cheeseslave.com/gaps-diet-myths/.

I personally moved away from paleo to a traditional foods diet. I eat plenty of raw dairy, organic meats (mainly organs, fish and shellfish, not much muscle meat), bone broths, fruit & vegetables; I don't eat gluten grains, but I do eat properly prepared buckwheat and some fermented rice. This is personal, but I feel a lot better on this diet. Paleo claims to be (and should, ideally, be) an effortless natural lifestyle, but in reality people overthink things too much and turn the whole thing into something I'd call paleoism. Or, paleo masochism (what with all the fasting, stressing over a strawberry giving you diabetes, and PUFA from a spoon of guacamole clogging your coronary).

I really recommend you try GAPS. Also research advocates of increasing carbs, such as the Jaminets' or Ray Peat's work (though take the latter with a grain of [sea] salt); and especially traditional foods - the Weston A. Price foundation and 'Nourishing traditions' by Sally Fallon Morell are great places to start. These are also great resources (also for GAPS recipes) www.nourishedkitchen.com, www.cheeseslave.com

Paleohacks population, you are free to put me in the stocks and throw rotten tomatoes!

Good luck, and get well!

Lots of love

Milla

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on April 16, 2012
at 01:41 PM

I would definitely agree with the statement: "the Inuit are not proof that, say, zero-carb is good for everyone." "Everyone" is too broad, and "proof" is too strong. However, I consider "ZC causes hypothyroid" to be a modern myth, replacing older ones about kidneys and the like. This post doesn't tackle that directly, but is related: http://paleohacks.com/questions/78343/is-lowered-t3-resulting-from-a-low-carb-diet-problematic .

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 16, 2012
at 02:01 PM

why do people always say to take Ray Peat with a grain of salt? You gotta do that with everybody... Great answer though.

A1a0baccef58499acf9ceb3c874997f2

(675)

on April 16, 2012
at 01:30 PM

Wonderfully written, and stellar information.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on April 16, 2012
at 01:38 PM

Some great points, especially, imo, the one about creating a diet from isolated bits of nutritional information. Gnolls has a good recent post about that: http://www.gnolls.org/2982/anti-nutritionism-l-canavanine-and-the-limitations-of-n1-self-experimentation/.

B9637ddb9a9a5c6a7306e3c804fcd21d

(3217)

on April 16, 2012
at 03:34 PM

Dave and his number porn...;-)

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on April 16, 2012
at 03:22 PM

Besides, everyone knows that you have to take Ray Peat with a tablespoon of salt.

B9637ddb9a9a5c6a7306e3c804fcd21d

(3217)

on April 16, 2012
at 03:54 PM

Ambimorph - I agree that low carb isn't a cast-iron cause of hypothyroid; low carb works for some people (perhaps ancestry has something to do with it); but for some it causes low temperature, fatigue, and other low thyroid symptoms. Perhaps it has to do with one as an individual, but Chris Masterjohn mentions that many people with hypothyroid symptoms on low-carb felt better on going higher carb, because carb intake correlates with T3.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 17, 2012
at 12:08 PM

Nobody answered my question though. It's easy to bash Peat if you don't read him. When I heard that Ray Peat advocated strained orange juice and milk I thought it was some kind of freak-diet, until I spent a whole week listening to East West Healing podcasts, read 30+ of his articles and gradually made changes to test his ideas.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 26, 2012
at 07:27 PM

Milla - Ambimorph called me on this too. I have to say that I decided you run an experiment and went back to really low-carb even though I previously had problems at VLC levels. So far no issues. I think appetite suppression is an issue for some. You end up severely hypocaloric. It isn't what you eat, it's the total lack of calories, possibly not enough bile to absorb all the fat you are eating.

8
Ac4972f7fc0353a6cdcb61778604a8a0

on April 16, 2012
at 12:08 PM

I agree with Milla's extremely well-written response. I spent about a year transitioning slowly into a 100% paleo diet, despite the fact that the closer I got to the ideal, the worse I felt. I kept thinking it was only because I wasn't 100% yet, but the best I ever felt was a traditional foods diet with lots of raw and fermented dairy and way more rice and even bread than is kosher on this website. I crashed on a totally paleo diet with no dairy and no grains, then I'd succumb to temptation and eat a heel of bread and I'd feel amazing for a day or so, until I dove back in to give paleo another go. I had many of the problems you mentioned, and I was just as stubborn about sticking with it and trying harder and denying the reality of what was actually happening versus what was 'supposed' to be happening.

Basically, it comes down to this: it's your body, and any diet you adopt should serve your needs, not the other way around. If something's not working for you, take the hint and change it. It doesn't matter what the 'science' says. No scientific evidence is going to be able to account for every single one of your individual characteristics, genetic history, and lifestyle. Paleo works amazingly well for a lot of people. As a trainer, I recommended it to a lot of people, with the caveat that they pay attention and don't just follow blindly. Many of my clients overcame serious problems thanks to Paleo. I personally did not, so I don't use it. It sounds like you know what you need. You just have to free yourself to actually do it and feel good about food again. I know how hard this next advice is for someone with a history of eating disorder, but it's even more important: Listen to your body. It's trying to tell you what it needs.

Good Luck, Khaled

D6a5a11734337208246e7d53184c8197

(250)

on April 16, 2012
at 12:30 PM

"any diet you adopt should serve your needs" fits the bill exactly! As someone dealing with recovery from an eating disorder myself, I've found that ANY restriction or addition to my diet, even if it's "healthy" is a bad idea if it comes from dogma and not from what my body and mind need. Trying to be hard core paleo sometimes made things worse. When I give myself permission to eat bread or even (god forbid) twinkles, I find I don't want them and am very happy with grass fed beef and some nuts and cherry tomatoes. You need to put yourself, not paleo, first. Good luck honey.

Be7638d955fb773dcc0a6183b6170f94

(0)

on April 16, 2012
at 01:16 PM

Thankyou Khaled another response that assures me I'm okay to listen to my body instead of ploughing on with what's "right" while my health suffers. I suppose the only answer in life is there is no one answer, it's just whatever answer that makes you feel right is THE "answer" I suppose on reality I'm a prime example in terms of an oddity That can't eat omega 3- salmon, Mackerel etc which health gurus tout as essential but my Body severely rejects it.. So I guess health to one, or hundreds of people, may have to be tweaked for another. I guess when I look at longevity studies the only.....

Be7638d955fb773dcc0a6183b6170f94

(0)

on April 16, 2012
at 01:23 PM

Thankyou yogini for your account of your recovery experience all of your insights and comments have really been so helpful.

Be7638d955fb773dcc0a6183b6170f94

(0)

on April 16, 2012
at 01:16 PM

... Consistency to good health is sticking to what is good for you

4
B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 16, 2012
at 07:42 AM

As low-carb gave me severe issues, and safe starches gave me stomach aches, bloating, ... I went Peatarian. This means I replaced veggies with ice cream, fruit juices (or sometimes fruit) and sugar. My diet has become more nutritionally dense (I eat loads of oysters and regularly liver), several of the issues are practically solved (eg. sleep, low energy, skin issues, ...), and it's a whole lot easier to cook. No more veggie-steaming in the morning.

I think the following things tend to be overlooked on a paleo diet :

  • calcium intake
  • high phosphorus
  • fructose fear
  • high tryptophan
  • lots of people don't eat the whole animal
  • nuts
  • the tendency to say be sure to get good sleep! (as if that's something we can fully control)
  • the assumption that we get most of the nutrients present in veggies
  • taking the RDAs seriously
  • focusing on diet and ignoring environmental factors that are now very differnet. What I mean by this, is that we need stronger bodies to cope with all the (environmental) stress, so going natural is probably not enough.
  • the tendency to solve things with supplements.

4c9c4d3b6de06c4ac282e7e40ec5992f

(209)

on April 16, 2012
at 08:09 AM

Your relpy befuddles me... Why are you on a Paleo site if you're non-paleo? • Safe starches my arse. ;-) • We get plenty of calcium on a paleo diet. As our ancestors did. • Not all Paleo folks consume a lot of nuts. • Good sleep CAN be influenced (if not controlled) by sleeping in a PITCH black room with no blinking/glowing lights and keeping lights low after dusk. • Paleo folks get MORE of the nutrients in vegies as we eat them with FAT (much of the nutrients are fat-soluble). • We DON'T takes RDAs seriously. Govt. RDAs are for shit. • I know no Paleo folk on supps other than fish-oil.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 16, 2012
at 11:14 AM

Because I started out as paleo and there is not Peatarian website. Where do you get your calcium from? I guess you assume you get it from veggies. Pitch black room is helpful, but it's not more than a band-aid. Much of the nutrients are fat-soluble? Really? All the B vitamins are not, nor is vitamin C, nor are the minerals. You don't make much sense to me. I've been on a Terry Wahles diet for a LONG time, and believe me, I didn't get any nutrients out of the veggies. People just assume....

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 16, 2012
at 07:56 AM

thankyou, liver is something ive never tried but have stared at in the supermarket thinking.. buy it, but then i dont! your comment is really refreshing and ive never even heard of a peatarian,but organi meats, fat and icecream probably will speed up my digestion. i have to eat alot to put of weight- its taken me a year and a half of paleo to get to where i am now- still half a stone underweight- so nutrient dense foods may well help, thankyou. are there any particular foods you eat for breakfast?

B9637ddb9a9a5c6a7306e3c804fcd21d

(3217)

on April 16, 2012
at 03:45 PM

Lu - just an idea for breakfast: I personally have some salmon caviar (keta), various fruit with raw yoghurt & honey, and eggs steamed in butter & raw milk (or sometimes I just have the yolks raw). And raw cheese. Just a suggestion :-)

1e36119906da54831601a7c23674f581

(698)

on April 16, 2012
at 12:04 PM

Korion, I would love for you to tell more about your personal experience going Peatarian. I'm also looking to clear up my skin, which so far has cleared 90%+ paleo, possibly getting better from here. I think experimentation is a great thing, and what paleo is all about anyway.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 17, 2012
at 11:59 AM

@PaleoMouth You're absolutely right. My list was indeed just a list of bad common tendencies, not negative aspects of a paleo diet. On the other hand : I may have bashed paleo in an unfair way, Peat's diet is ridiculized way more. People just summarize him with "OJ + ice cream", and then say the diet doesn't work for them. A lot of my points are still quite valid though, like the fructose fear, nuts, the focus on diet only, ...

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 16, 2012
at 11:29 AM

Do I have to leave paleohacks now because I'm not technically paleo?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 16, 2012
at 11:19 AM

*I know no Paleo folk on supps other than fish-oil.* then you don't know many paleo followers. Or maybe you just know people that do it for weight loss. If I was just doing this for weight loss, I would not take vitamins. But I'm doing this for mental health (autism & memory), skin (only got really well on Ray Peat diet), energy and warmth. Mental above anything. Once you turn from a shy boy into a social guy everything seems possible, and mental health becomes superpower. Paleo was good, Peatarian is great.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on April 16, 2012
at 01:49 PM

The idea that someone needs to be following a particular diet to participate here, is, of course, ridiculous. However the idea of a Peatarian forum is great. Maybe cliff can start one on his blog site: http://co2factor.blogspot.com/

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 16, 2012
at 11:15 AM

I've seen people supplementing 200k UI of retinol and not be able to get their level up. I've seen people supplementing iron and still be low. Eating != absorbing, I can't believe you question that.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 16, 2012
at 11:25 AM

@lu I just eat random stuff I find. I don't go into the fasting craze at all, I eat whenever I want. If that means I eat 10 times, so be it. Fasting messes me up. Love oysters (which is weird since I used to hate all things in the ocean), and regularly put a fair amount of sugar on and in everything. If you wanna gain some weight (you probably want lean mass?), you could try skim milk. I believe Cliff had lots of success with that.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 17, 2012
at 12:01 PM

@Ambimorph it's not that easy to set up a decent forum like this one. As far as I know, you have to pay quite a lot to implement stackexchange and you don't even have full control. There are "forums" about Ray Peat, but their implementation is quite weak most of the time. This up- and downvote system is pretty cool. I'm thinking of writing one myself, immitating most of the aspects on here but with support for private messaging etc., but it's a lot of work and I don't wanna sit behind a computer all day.

535fafe8afe6923870905c707c4f4454

(720)

on April 17, 2012
at 10:26 AM

I usually really enjoy your inputs Korion but this post struck a nerve. I don't want to pick apart your whole post but for example, I mean, what about Paleo fundamentally suggests not eating the whole animal? Maybe are you struggling with the freedom to think for youself within Paleo dieting, rather than say have your diet specifically defined by someone eg Peat? I consider myself Paleo and none of those points apply to me, although it's been a journey to this point - Still the journey is valuable in finding the right tweaks personally. I would agree with your post if you reworded to:

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 17, 2012
at 12:04 PM

Just wanted to add that I've finally managed to sleep through the night, by eating lots of ice cream. I'm probably gonna switch to grass-fed cheese/milk soon.

535fafe8afe6923870905c707c4f4454

(720)

on April 17, 2012
at 10:28 AM

"I think there are several bad common tendencies of people trying the paleo diet:"

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 26, 2012
at 07:58 PM

Harris never talked to Peat, so how the heck could Peat address his critics? As far as I know Peat doesn't even know who Danny Roddy is. Danny Roddy has addressed Harris' thoughts btw : http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2012/4/9/kurt-harris-ray-peat-the-ghost-of-hans-selye.html The only thing Danny didn't address as far as I know are Peats thoughts on HIV.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 26, 2012
at 07:37 PM

Really Peat's articles assume everyone has thyroid issues. I tried Peat and it was really energizing for about 1 week before I ended up sick as a dog. It's also worth noting that there are no algorithms offered by Peat or Danny on how to figure out what is good and what isn't. You have to pay to test, and pay one of them to read the test. It's also worth noting that Harris and other critics of Peat have pointed out several factual flaws in Peat's writings which neither Peat or Danny have addressed.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 26, 2012
at 08:00 PM

But I am aware Peat is not a cure-all, never said that. It works really well for me at the moment, but like Senneth says : if it stops working or if I find something better, I'll move to a different diet. It's not a religion, I'm just trying to find what works best for me, and Peat opened up my possibilities by changing my perspective on things.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 26, 2012
at 07:55 PM

Can you give some examples of *assumptions*? I failed to notice them. What do you mean by *algorithms*? I didn't pay for a test, nor did I pay them, but I handled pretty well. Peat and Danny have a clear idea of what a good diet is based on (shellfish, dairy, coconut oil,...). What flaws did Harris address? He only pointed out that *Ray Peat is full of shit*. You gotta give examples if you're gonna bash someone.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 26, 2012
at 07:59 PM

And also the thoughts of Peat on PUFAs as non-essential, but I think Peat addressed this quite well in his fish oil and his PUFA post where he talks about Burr's experiments.

2
01adafcb4dd4147c6af543f61eee60a8

on April 16, 2012
at 08:48 AM

Im not paleo anymore,more primal. Its too restrictive and I dont think its healthy to avoid dairy.

2
5af4bc9d2c390b0bcad9524f149c1b4f

(1101)

on April 16, 2012
at 07:31 AM

I'm sure most will tell you to eliminate the dairy and sweeteners (honey) to see if it helps the psoriasis. I'm not sure what else tends to trigger autoimmune responses, but I'm sure others will have suggestions. I think nightshades (tomatoes, eggplant, etc.) is a big one.

You mention that you have little desire to "eat a lot of meat". I wonder if your fat intake is high enough or if you're eating enough to begin with, no offense. I understand anorexia can be a big struggle and you may just not be getting the calories you need.

Extra sleep and a low-stress attitude can go a long ways too. While a change in diet can be a "magic fix" for a lot of problems, sleep and lifestyle are just as important. Take deep breaths, keep stress down, and make sure you get those 7 to 10 hours a night!

5af4bc9d2c390b0bcad9524f149c1b4f

(1101)

on April 16, 2012
at 07:40 AM

Not to say high fat intake = necessary. N = 1, as usual and some people find different macronutrient ratios work better for them (higher carb, no carb, whatever carb). I don't necessarily think ratios are something to think too hard about, but eating a little more fat might help.

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 16, 2012
at 08:13 AM

thankyou i really appreciate your comments and tips

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 16, 2012
at 07:53 AM

maybe i do need to add more fat thankyou, i think ill try organ meats, bone marrow perhaps. the thought of bone marrow seems to make me feel abit queezy but maybe i need to get through that and try it.. i have done this before, along with bone broth, but unfortunately never got the 'high' that some people talk of.im sure your 100% right on the stress thing inducing my stomach issues too thankyou

5af4bc9d2c390b0bcad9524f149c1b4f

(1101)

on April 16, 2012
at 08:04 AM

Yeah, no problem. :) And I puree liver in a blender and toss it into an ice cube tray. Freeze 'em, pop 'em out, and store them in the freezer. You can put them in stocks, meatloaf, sauces, whatever. I don't know much about Peat and his opinions and since weight gain is your goal (weight loss is mine), Korion may have some better info for you. We've all got to tweak how we eat to fit our own lives though, so don't get frustrated and give up! Just keep it whole and real foods. :)

1
778b36f4f699f202de135ef176fe9ab7

on April 16, 2012
at 05:21 PM

I don't really have any answers, per se, for you, but I do want to say that the advice the people on this site provide is generally pretty sound. And I have to applaud those that went out on a limb and gave advice that "wasn't paleo"!

I have found that eating 100% Paleo doesn't work well for me either. I feel tired and sluggish if I don't get enough carbs. I usually eat an apple for breakfast every day of the week, but not on the weekends. I notice that I am extremely hungry on the weekends and basically don't want to move around a lot, unless I have some fruit with my breakfast.

I use paleo as more of a guildeline than a rule book. I am starting to understand that no one else's body is exactly like mine. So, while their success stories are nice, they don't necessarily apply to me. I can learn from them, but shouldn't expect the same results, because I'm a different person.

Good luck to you! I hope that you find your health again and can feel good soon :)

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 16, 2012
at 06:16 PM

thank you all for your insights they really mean alot to me mainly because ive been watching my health decline for six months and still been marching on forth with forcing certain things down my neck... i think intuitive eating, something i did on my first attempt at recovery without knowing it was a phrase that someone had coined, worked well for me, and if i combine it with all of your advice, lisa also, im coming to the conclusion that its trial and error and listening to your body, as i so vehemently did NOT do for so long when i was previously starving myself. thanks to all!

1
Fc64db6a555559762432d503a1dbad19

(1478)

on April 16, 2012
at 02:51 PM

As I wrote in my comment above, look up pyroluria as a possible cause. It is a fit for all of your symptoms. The skin issues, difficulty digesting proteins and depression are all symptoms. You can get a simple urin test for it. Or you could add zinc, b6, b12 and copper to your diet for 6 weeks and see how you feel.

5b5b7efa9b3df6c2d80e43883e4957c1

(70)

on May 16, 2012
at 11:05 AM

Very true re Pyroluria, although I would be careful with taking copper if you have Pyroluria, most likely someone suffering from this condition already has copper excess. I suffer from Pyroluria and have a bad reaction to copper.

0
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on April 17, 2012
at 08:49 AM

Hi Lu,

That sounds really rough. I suspect that you have lingering damage to your digestive system from the anorexia, and it might not matter exactly what you put into your belly right now because the system doesn't quite know what to do with it. Your symptoms make me think that even if you are managing to eat enough sometimes, you are not absorbing it well. Have you tried adding digestive enzymes at meal time?

Getting enough fat is abso-freakin-lutely vital here, to see if you are still able to respond to higher fat ratios making a difference in you mental health I would recommend adding a 1/2 lb. block of Kerrygold and as much guacamole to your eating plan as possible this week on top of what you already planned and see if you feel any better. The only time I've been seriously suicidal in my life was on a doctor directed low carb, low fat diet, it was hell. Chicken broth is really easy to make and I swear there is something magical in the schmalz on top, gets you a little fat and some good minerals in an easy to digest form, which might make you brain a little happier.

If you were doing better on things like bread and hummus, I would think you are going to need a good serving of starch at most meals too. Try rice if you aren't in a tuber mood. Bananas might be your friend too. You know what, fuck it!...if you felt good eating bread and hummus, eat bread and hummus, they are not nutrient devoid, and you need nutrients above all else right now.

How are you on electrolytes too? There is a drink called Recharge that I think is really helpful when you are depleted, coconut water isn't an option, and aren't sure where to start (the fruit punch flavor is good, the others were kinda mediocre). It has some natural fruit juice in it, but it is pretty diluted. If you can't find that, try a bottle of Pedialyte or just have some salty soup, and see if you start to feel a little better. Also, make sure you salt your food, it is possible to become sodium depleted on a ketogenic diet (under 100g carbohydrate) very quickly, and that can cause all sorts of mayhem in our bodies.

I worry that this is serious enough, that if it doesn't start to get better in the next 3-5 days of more fat, starch, and electrolytes, it is beyond diet tweaking, which would take us to these next steps. If it was me, I would line up a good team of professionals to fix me up mind and body here.

First step: Print this number out, and put it on your fridge--Need help? In the U.S., call 1-800-273-8255 National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

Second step: If you have severe wheezing, chest pain, dizziness, or suicidal thoughts, you march yourself right into an emergency room, not tomorrow, right now. Or better yet get a close friend or family member promise to take you there if they notice any of these symptoms in you because it is easy to minimize the severity of symptoms in ourselves. One of the main symptoms of having a heart attack is becoming very argumentative and denying that you are having one. Anorexia can cause heart failure in need of emergency care, and if you aren't absorbing nutrients via your belly, you may still be functionally anorexic even if you are eating well and IV nutrition and electrolytes could save your life.

Third: You are going to take yourself to either your current doctor's office or urgent care clinic ASAP to get blood work, you are obviously deficient in something, and knowing what will help as a baseline to recovery.

Fourth: Contact Emily Deans of Evolutionary Psychiatry to see if she can recommend someone in your area.

Fifth: find a naturopath and a wholistic nutritionist to work with long term and track your recovery.

I wish you the best, and please keep us posted.

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 17, 2012
at 09:43 AM

...overdue. and as of your suggestions you are spot on... yesterday i added organic white rice, sweet potatoes and kerrygold and i didnt wake up in night sweats last night and my digestion seems to have improved..nor did i have nightmares... not sure if any of that is in any way connected but im relieved at that at least. thankyou so much for the number however i live in the UK but my husband and therapist are aware of my... well, they just know i need observing abit. i guess ive been so focused on getting over the anorexia ive someway turned paleo into another obsession. i believe in its...

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 17, 2012
at 09:37 AM

Thankyou happy now, your effort with your response is really appreciated. what you say about electrolytes makes plenty of sense because obviously years of anorexia you overdose of laxatives...which messes with electro's etc.. but luckily i do add salt on to my foods sensing that i needed too. to be honest yesterday when i posted that commenti had skin itching, stomach pains, peeling skin... and i did/do need people like you with suggestions because 1) have been in therapy for 3 years and relapsed into anorexia during that time...now recovering and 2) my physical health was far better before..

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 17, 2012
at 09:40 AM

... i embarked on paleo. however, i am going to buy some organic chicken stock, and i will stay in touch with my doctors although the only issue i have is they have been trying to put me on antidepressants and beta blockers for my panic attacks and i feel beta blockers would slow down my already slow heart rate! i havent got long to go weight wise, but i guess recovering on my own for the past year and a half has been emotionally and physically exhausting let alone stressing over the types of non-paleo food that could cause XYZ... Anyway, i will definitely go to a nutritionist,its a bit...

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 17, 2012
at 09:46 AM

... nourishing principals but i feel ill have to incorporate more starches and broths as you and many have suggested. liver, bone marrow, more fat. i am really thankful to you all for your opinions and i will perhaps buy an enzyme, i used to take betaine hydrochloride? but i stopped. perhaps a papaya enzyme.. anyway, sorry for the long reply, your suggestions are going to be taken on board as id rather not resort to some means the professionals are advising.. glad you are better now lucy

0
Be7638d955fb773dcc0a6183b6170f94

(0)

on April 16, 2012
at 11:14 AM

Hey milla I wrote out a long reply but it got deleted as its on my phone I'm now writing on! But it was basically saying Thankyou very much for your courage in giving me a different perspective on a site dominated by a certain set of strong thoughts! I applaud you and really appreciate your kindness in trying to help me even though it's not the paleo protocol. I will look at gaps and the idea of fermenting buckwheat and rice makes total sense to me as I have a great website i can get these products from and I have a fantastic farmers market here in England that do great raw dairy. It makes sense to apply a long term balanced approach rathers than avoidance of total groups. I really appreciate your perspective, I am going to fully take it on board and apply it. Reall appreciated

99bd7f8b1170a1e9e56b93d9d53b51cc

(193)

on April 16, 2012
at 07:15 PM

Hey Lu - which website do you know for fermented buckwheat/rice? Thanks!

Ae27816511de2c74014fe92f52661b57

(55)

on April 16, 2012
at 07:53 PM

http://www.artisanbread-abo.com/ I'm from england but im pretty sure they deliver to united states aswell but best to check!!

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