4

votes

Crossfit vs Reality?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created December 15, 2012 at 3:41 AM

http://www.unrxpodcast.com/episode-27-kiefer/

@40:00

Kiefer bashes crossfit as weight training meets endurance. And scientifically argues that crossfit:resistance-training as jogging:HIIT. Are crossfitters the new joggers and marathon runners of the 80's? Is cross fit inferior with negative consequences?

Fe87afa634afe26f4f6fd956abe0b46a

(565)

on December 23, 2012
at 03:54 PM

Kipping pullups aren't a substitution for strict pull-ups. They are a gymnastics movement. They enable you to keep exerting continuous force while keeping your heart rate high. High rep kipping pullups will work muscles you have never felt during strict pullups. Good Crossfit gyms do both kipping and strict pullups depending on the purpose of the workout. They're easy to make fun of, but they're not as ridiculous as you think.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on December 23, 2012
at 12:54 AM

Yeah, man I emailed you a few hours ago. You didn't get it?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 23, 2012
at 12:33 AM

Lol, I watched a shorthand video of a crossfit guy duplicating the 1k pushups and pullups Jack Lalane did back in the day. Only he did kipping pullups instead of real pullups *rolling eyes of judgement*. Btw man, before I forget, did you get my email? I posted it a few days ago on Hands Down 2.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on December 22, 2012
at 11:39 PM

Kipping pullups. Need I say more?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 04:35 PM

Can you cite this?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 03:32 PM

Their conclusion, "We were not able to identify an upper limit of physical activity, either moderate or vigorous, above which more harm than good will occur in terms of long-term life expectancy benefits."

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 03:31 PM

That study, part of the work of Wen aand O'Keefe (of which I am very familiar), suggests that HIIT (defined as 10 minutes above 95% threshold) is as dangerous as long-term excessive sustained exercise (defined 1 hour or longer above 80% threshold).

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 03:30 PM

See, you go to the fallacious reasoning by looking at extremes again. Is training for a marathon optimal? No. Is training to be a body builder optimal? No. Any exercise routine that doesn't include proper recovery is not good and will lead to chronic inflammation. There is certainly a diminishing return to endurance exercise as there is to weight training.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:40 PM

You don't train muscles by lifting 5 lb weights and you don't train your heart by jogging for extended periods of times. You'll train tiny slow twitch muscles, you'll tear your heart. Marathon runners drop dead every year at marathon races, do sprinters ? No. Wonder why? Of course not. Ty for admitting you didn't watch the video. And apparently only reading the part of my studies you choose to misinterpret. These studies are valid and you can deny it all day, but you're the only one losing out long term. Like the friend who doesn't believe you when you say whole wheat isn't healthy.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:33 PM

Okay, I read my studies, maybe you should be reading them. "intense endurance exercise causes acute dysfunction.. And structural changes.. In some of the most trained athletes". Who did they measure this in? People who just ran an endurance race of 3-11 hours. So yes, ENDuRANCE exercises damage your heart. Ty for proving this point I didn't previously mention.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:14 PM

I am not pro-CrossFit. I am not pro-Running. I am not pro-Lifting. I believe that optimal health is a combination the last two. I lift, heavy, twice a week. I run 25-30 miles per week. I do track workouts (what the running world has called HIIT for the past 30 years), tempo workouts and long runs. But the truth is, "no one way to exercise that is better than all other ways"; "If you are consistent and progressive you will get stronger and healthier" And

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:11 PM

re: HIIT increase V02 Max... The studies all disagree -- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3924424 . I have seen multiple studies that show "significant" findings on both sides

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:10 PM

BTW, this is precisely the problem with the YOUTUBE clip. I don't need the spin, I need the science. Give me access to the report and the data; I will make up my own determination. I don't need a COO telling a quack how I should interpret results.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:09 PM

You sent me a site that interpreted the science that says "HIIT is better than steady-state cardio". But the article it refrences talks about intense steady-state cardio @70% of Max heart rate. THAT IS NOT HIIT. That's steady-state cardio. A site that says, "one that trained with intensity and one that trained traditionally".... No, one that trained with intensity (but not HIIT) vs a group that did lesiure biking.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:09 PM

Read your own studies -- "Intense endurance exercise causes acute dysfunction of the RV, but not the LV. Although short-term recovery appears complete, chronic structural changes and reduced RV function are evident in some of the most practiced athletes" Schnohr, the lead on the study, states, "Mortality is lower in people reporting moderate jogging than in non-joggers or those undertaking extreme levels of exercise"; "Thus our general recommendation to all adults would be that brisk walking is preferable to slow." Excellent point, I didn't realize that HIIT could potentially damage the hear

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 01:42 PM

All these activities increase cortisol during, it's the sustained elevated cortisol levels that I'm referring to here that can be problematic. I'm also for weight lifting but against crossfit for similar reasons. First paragraph of the introduction cites two studies stating that research has a,ways shown an inverse correlation between vo2 max and all cause mortality: http://www.asep.org/files/DalleckV2.pdf . And HIIT increases vo2 max more efficiently than endurance http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17414804 .

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 01:25 PM

Phil Campbell worked with a team (including doctors) who carried out his study using his Program at King's Daughter Medical Center and the results of this are discussed in the video. Mercol is not the expert IMO in that video, Phil Campbell is. And I really think you should watch it, it is a really good watch. And okay, if you want to use lifespan as a metric this article discusses scientists in Denmark measuring all cause mortality in HIIT vs endurance trained individuals. http://blog.fitmarkbags.com/tag/high-intensity-interval-training/

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 01:22 PM

Phil Campbell worked with a team who carried out his study using his Program at King's Daughter Medical Center and the results of this are discussed in the video. He is not the expert IMO in that video, Phil Campbell is. And I really think you should watch it, it is a really good watch. And okay, if you want to use lifespan as a metric this article discusses scientists in Denmark measuring all cause mortality in HIIT vs endurance trained individuals. http://blog.fitmarkbags.com/tag/high-intensity-interval-training/

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 12:54 PM

I've got a good metric for you, life expectancy -- http://sma.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Mortalityandlongevityofeliteathletesarticle.pdf . I am not anti weight lifting, I'd just like to see those studies YOU referenced.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 12:52 PM

Attack me if you will, but you were the one who stated that "Short duration high intensity is vastly superior... in the studies that I've come across". I just asked for those studies. Now you say it's just fast twitch, VO2 Max, and cortisol (which is wrong btw) -- Why are those the right metrics? Weight lifting increases cortisol too! both show significant decline in cortisol after recovery.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 12:52 PM

Stephen, I know all about Mercola. The fact that you are trying to use him as an expert tells me all I need to know. Campbell, once board certified in sports medicine, is not a doctor nor a scientist. He DOES NOT conduct "medical research" as you suggest. You posted a YOUTUBE clip, not scientific research.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 03:52 AM

You say not a single scientific study, apparently you didn't watch the hour long presentation discussing this man's work. Not to mention that not only do you not mention a study but you don't mention a single advantage of slow state over hiit regardless of whether you have studies to back it up. Which to me shows lack of knowledge in the field. And instead of politely asking me for the studies you act high and mighty as if you know the results already even though you're seemingly clearly not well versed on the subject.Plz Post back after you at least skim the video or read Campbell's research.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 03:48 AM

I mean come now. Sure bash the messenger, or actually debate me, if you want to exchange emails or something and tell me what specific studies or points you want me to prove. Check out the questions I post, I'm not afraid to get down and dirty in the NCBI, try me. I'm not going to find 20 studies because I'm not confident you'll even skim them, just like you didn't skim the video I sent you which discussed in length several of the points I made, but you don't consider that a citation even though it's a doctor and researcher discussing their work over the course of an hour.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 03:45 AM

And just which part of what I stated was controversial? Come now, shall we debate the rise in cortisol from running? are you going to argue that jogging works the anaerobic or fast twitch parts of your body? Or do you just want me to show you the studies showing increased vo2 max in hiit over regular cardio in trained athletes? Do you want to argue that steady state cardio trains fast twitch more efficiently or that it increases mitochondrial function more efficiently, do you want to argue that none of those are important for health?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 03:34 AM

You know what CD, that is a really great video that talks in detail about hiit vs regular cardio and it's quite obvious you didn't watch it. Phil Campbell discusses the research done at the King's Daughter Medical Center and both him and Dr. Mercola used to be big fans of running before they discovered HIIT. They talk in detail about hiit, the difference between hiit and cardio and Phil's medical research.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 01:54 AM

Amazing, not a single scientific study to back up your claims... And yet you claim that EVERY study supports your point... I love this site.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 16, 2012
at 10:58 PM

Your mitochondrial function isn't as high as it would be, chronic stress is going to hinder optimal sex hormone production. Umm.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geVJqKCFk-c

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 16, 2012
at 10:38 PM

Your mitochondrial function isn't as high as it would be, chronic stress is going to hinder optimal sex hormone production. Umm..

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 16, 2012
at 10:37 PM

Umm, okay, I didn't really expect anyone to argue this point. @Britt, n=1 is an inductively weak argument. @CD, Okay, I don't know where to begin. Umm, low intensity long duration is a chronic stress on the body. You got that cortisol, you work aerobic pathways instead of anaerobic (breaking your lactate threshold via hiit). Your vo2 max isn't as high as it would be with hiit. Your growth hormone isn't as high as it would be. I mean, like, shoot man. I can't think of a SINGLE area where running would be superior to sprinting. You train slow twitch instead of fast twitch..

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 15, 2012
at 08:04 PM

And please note that "cardio" does not mean marathons very few people actually train long term for marathons. If we want to go to extremes, how many body builders are healthier than the average joe? I talking about running 20-30 miles per week with at least one tempo run, one track workout, and one long run along with 1-2 recovery runs.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 15, 2012
at 08:00 PM

@stephen, please show me these studies that show short duration high intensity is vastly superior to all markers of health. I have never seen a single study that shows "vast" cardiovascular benefits to strength training over cardiovascular training. In fact, most studies show that, over an extended period, blood oxygen levels, C-reactive protein, and resting heart rate, and blood pressure. Strength training improves bone density, serum amyloid A, and white blood cell count. In the end, doing both is best, but if you can't, do the one you will continue to do consistently.

2e777bbcd49262eb31a24f821abec6bc

(1974)

on December 15, 2012
at 03:50 PM

I do that constant cardio that everyone on here thinks is so horrible. I just got my blood work back and every single number on there is absolutely perfect. My health is great and I am in great shape. Humans are slower than most meat eaters but better with endurance. We have evolved to be great with endurance. I don't get why endurance athletes are so bashed on here.

B41cdb2253976ba9b429dd608d02c21f

(1495)

on December 15, 2012
at 03:20 PM

Absolutely. Got badly injured that way myself. I will have to deal with the pain for the rest of my life. Fitness is not being injured!

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 15, 2012
at 02:36 PM

I disagree. Short duration high intensity is vastly superior to long duration low intensity, short duration low intensity or long duration high intensity in the studies that I've come across. Sure exercise is better than no exercise, but how much healthier is a marathon runner than the average joe? Are those micro tears in the heart that you get from those sorts of activities really better?

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4 Answers

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10
Ee6932fe54ad68039a8d5f7a8caa0468

(2668)

on December 15, 2012
at 04:36 AM

not sure what i think of kiefer, some of his articles rub me the wrong way, but crossfit mixes speed with weight training in dangerous ways. you don't have to take my word for it, if you know people that are into it. just see how often they get injured! doing olympic lifts repetitively, for time, is a bad idea.

B41cdb2253976ba9b429dd608d02c21f

(1495)

on December 15, 2012
at 03:20 PM

Absolutely. Got badly injured that way myself. I will have to deal with the pain for the rest of my life. Fitness is not being injured!

5
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 15, 2012
at 02:05 PM

Look, there is no one way to exercise that is better than all other ways. Ultimately If you are consistent and progressive you will get stronger and healthier. Consistency is the most important. Pick something you can and WILL do regularly and stick with it.

If crossfit is your thing, then it will get you in great shape. If lifting or running or soccer or P90X or whatever -- then just do it. Don't worry about which one is optimal. If you hate it, then it isn't optimal.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 15, 2012
at 08:00 PM

@stephen, please show me these studies that show short duration high intensity is vastly superior to all markers of health. I have never seen a single study that shows "vast" cardiovascular benefits to strength training over cardiovascular training. In fact, most studies show that, over an extended period, blood oxygen levels, C-reactive protein, and resting heart rate, and blood pressure. Strength training improves bone density, serum amyloid A, and white blood cell count. In the end, doing both is best, but if you can't, do the one you will continue to do consistently.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:33 PM

Okay, I read my studies, maybe you should be reading them. "intense endurance exercise causes acute dysfunction.. And structural changes.. In some of the most trained athletes". Who did they measure this in? People who just ran an endurance race of 3-11 hours. So yes, ENDuRANCE exercises damage your heart. Ty for proving this point I didn't previously mention.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 01:54 AM

Amazing, not a single scientific study to back up your claims... And yet you claim that EVERY study supports your point... I love this site.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 03:52 AM

You say not a single scientific study, apparently you didn't watch the hour long presentation discussing this man's work. Not to mention that not only do you not mention a study but you don't mention a single advantage of slow state over hiit regardless of whether you have studies to back it up. Which to me shows lack of knowledge in the field. And instead of politely asking me for the studies you act high and mighty as if you know the results already even though you're seemingly clearly not well versed on the subject.Plz Post back after you at least skim the video or read Campbell's research.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 01:25 PM

Phil Campbell worked with a team (including doctors) who carried out his study using his Program at King's Daughter Medical Center and the results of this are discussed in the video. Mercol is not the expert IMO in that video, Phil Campbell is. And I really think you should watch it, it is a really good watch. And okay, if you want to use lifespan as a metric this article discusses scientists in Denmark measuring all cause mortality in HIIT vs endurance trained individuals. http://blog.fitmarkbags.com/tag/high-intensity-interval-training/

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 03:32 PM

Their conclusion, "We were not able to identify an upper limit of physical activity, either moderate or vigorous, above which more harm than good will occur in terms of long-term life expectancy benefits."

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 16, 2012
at 10:37 PM

Umm, okay, I didn't really expect anyone to argue this point. @Britt, n=1 is an inductively weak argument. @CD, Okay, I don't know where to begin. Umm, low intensity long duration is a chronic stress on the body. You got that cortisol, you work aerobic pathways instead of anaerobic (breaking your lactate threshold via hiit). Your vo2 max isn't as high as it would be with hiit. Your growth hormone isn't as high as it would be. I mean, like, shoot man. I can't think of a SINGLE area where running would be superior to sprinting. You train slow twitch instead of fast twitch..

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 04:35 PM

Can you cite this?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:14 PM

I am not pro-CrossFit. I am not pro-Running. I am not pro-Lifting. I believe that optimal health is a combination the last two. I lift, heavy, twice a week. I run 25-30 miles per week. I do track workouts (what the running world has called HIIT for the past 30 years), tempo workouts and long runs. But the truth is, "no one way to exercise that is better than all other ways"; "If you are consistent and progressive you will get stronger and healthier" And

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:09 PM

Read your own studies -- "Intense endurance exercise causes acute dysfunction of the RV, but not the LV. Although short-term recovery appears complete, chronic structural changes and reduced RV function are evident in some of the most practiced athletes" Schnohr, the lead on the study, states, "Mortality is lower in people reporting moderate jogging than in non-joggers or those undertaking extreme levels of exercise"; "Thus our general recommendation to all adults would be that brisk walking is preferable to slow." Excellent point, I didn't realize that HIIT could potentially damage the hear

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:09 PM

You sent me a site that interpreted the science that says "HIIT is better than steady-state cardio". But the article it refrences talks about intense steady-state cardio @70% of Max heart rate. THAT IS NOT HIIT. That's steady-state cardio. A site that says, "one that trained with intensity and one that trained traditionally".... No, one that trained with intensity (but not HIIT) vs a group that did lesiure biking.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 16, 2012
at 10:58 PM

Your mitochondrial function isn't as high as it would be, chronic stress is going to hinder optimal sex hormone production. Umm.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geVJqKCFk-c

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 03:30 PM

See, you go to the fallacious reasoning by looking at extremes again. Is training for a marathon optimal? No. Is training to be a body builder optimal? No. Any exercise routine that doesn't include proper recovery is not good and will lead to chronic inflammation. There is certainly a diminishing return to endurance exercise as there is to weight training.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 01:22 PM

Phil Campbell worked with a team who carried out his study using his Program at King's Daughter Medical Center and the results of this are discussed in the video. He is not the expert IMO in that video, Phil Campbell is. And I really think you should watch it, it is a really good watch. And okay, if you want to use lifespan as a metric this article discusses scientists in Denmark measuring all cause mortality in HIIT vs endurance trained individuals. http://blog.fitmarkbags.com/tag/high-intensity-interval-training/

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 03:31 PM

That study, part of the work of Wen aand O'Keefe (of which I am very familiar), suggests that HIIT (defined as 10 minutes above 95% threshold) is as dangerous as long-term excessive sustained exercise (defined 1 hour or longer above 80% threshold).

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 15, 2012
at 02:36 PM

I disagree. Short duration high intensity is vastly superior to long duration low intensity, short duration low intensity or long duration high intensity in the studies that I've come across. Sure exercise is better than no exercise, but how much healthier is a marathon runner than the average joe? Are those micro tears in the heart that you get from those sorts of activities really better?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 03:48 AM

I mean come now. Sure bash the messenger, or actually debate me, if you want to exchange emails or something and tell me what specific studies or points you want me to prove. Check out the questions I post, I'm not afraid to get down and dirty in the NCBI, try me. I'm not going to find 20 studies because I'm not confident you'll even skim them, just like you didn't skim the video I sent you which discussed in length several of the points I made, but you don't consider that a citation even though it's a doctor and researcher discussing their work over the course of an hour.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:11 PM

re: HIIT increase V02 Max... The studies all disagree -- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3924424 . I have seen multiple studies that show "significant" findings on both sides

2e777bbcd49262eb31a24f821abec6bc

(1974)

on December 15, 2012
at 03:50 PM

I do that constant cardio that everyone on here thinks is so horrible. I just got my blood work back and every single number on there is absolutely perfect. My health is great and I am in great shape. Humans are slower than most meat eaters but better with endurance. We have evolved to be great with endurance. I don't get why endurance athletes are so bashed on here.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 16, 2012
at 10:38 PM

Your mitochondrial function isn't as high as it would be, chronic stress is going to hinder optimal sex hormone production. Umm..

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 01:42 PM

All these activities increase cortisol during, it's the sustained elevated cortisol levels that I'm referring to here that can be problematic. I'm also for weight lifting but against crossfit for similar reasons. First paragraph of the introduction cites two studies stating that research has a,ways shown an inverse correlation between vo2 max and all cause mortality: http://www.asep.org/files/DalleckV2.pdf . And HIIT increases vo2 max more efficiently than endurance http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17414804 .

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 15, 2012
at 08:04 PM

And please note that "cardio" does not mean marathons very few people actually train long term for marathons. If we want to go to extremes, how many body builders are healthier than the average joe? I talking about running 20-30 miles per week with at least one tempo run, one track workout, and one long run along with 1-2 recovery runs.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 03:34 AM

You know what CD, that is a really great video that talks in detail about hiit vs regular cardio and it's quite obvious you didn't watch it. Phil Campbell discusses the research done at the King's Daughter Medical Center and both him and Dr. Mercola used to be big fans of running before they discovered HIIT. They talk in detail about hiit, the difference between hiit and cardio and Phil's medical research.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 12:52 PM

Attack me if you will, but you were the one who stated that "Short duration high intensity is vastly superior... in the studies that I've come across". I just asked for those studies. Now you say it's just fast twitch, VO2 Max, and cortisol (which is wrong btw) -- Why are those the right metrics? Weight lifting increases cortisol too! both show significant decline in cortisol after recovery.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:10 PM

BTW, this is precisely the problem with the YOUTUBE clip. I don't need the spin, I need the science. Give me access to the report and the data; I will make up my own determination. I don't need a COO telling a quack how I should interpret results.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 03:45 AM

And just which part of what I stated was controversial? Come now, shall we debate the rise in cortisol from running? are you going to argue that jogging works the anaerobic or fast twitch parts of your body? Or do you just want me to show you the studies showing increased vo2 max in hiit over regular cardio in trained athletes? Do you want to argue that steady state cardio trains fast twitch more efficiently or that it increases mitochondrial function more efficiently, do you want to argue that none of those are important for health?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 12:52 PM

Stephen, I know all about Mercola. The fact that you are trying to use him as an expert tells me all I need to know. Campbell, once board certified in sports medicine, is not a doctor nor a scientist. He DOES NOT conduct "medical research" as you suggest. You posted a YOUTUBE clip, not scientific research.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 17, 2012
at 12:54 PM

I've got a good metric for you, life expectancy -- http://sma.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Mortalityandlongevityofeliteathletesarticle.pdf . I am not anti weight lifting, I'd just like to see those studies YOU referenced.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:40 PM

You don't train muscles by lifting 5 lb weights and you don't train your heart by jogging for extended periods of times. You'll train tiny slow twitch muscles, you'll tear your heart. Marathon runners drop dead every year at marathon races, do sprinters ? No. Wonder why? Of course not. Ty for admitting you didn't watch the video. And apparently only reading the part of my studies you choose to misinterpret. These studies are valid and you can deny it all day, but you're the only one losing out long term. Like the friend who doesn't believe you when you say whole wheat isn't healthy.

3
Fe87afa634afe26f4f6fd956abe0b46a

(565)

on December 23, 2012
at 02:50 AM

It's important to realize that all Crossfit gyms are not created equal. Some have great coaches and well thought out programming. Others are balls to the wall, go all out until you crash and burn. Crossfit hate stems from the obvious jackassery displayed by some Crossfit enthusiatsts that people love to laugh at, and spread across the interwebs. Of course, there are an equal number of powerlifters, runners, and bodybuilders doing idiotic things. It's just not as funny as some of the nonsense crossfitters come up with. If you look into the well run Crossfit gyms, you'll see members displaying all the traits that crossfit proclaims are possible.

All the workouts of the 2012 Crossfit Games are available on youtube. The things the athletes are capable of is unreal. Resistance training and HIIT will not get you there.

Crossfit is a training philosophy and a lifestyle. It's not a workout program. The workout program's effectiveness and safety is determined by the coach.

2
7dab2d8c97e44d8d0c298e5c9d5d75bc

(641)

on December 23, 2012
at 03:30 AM

I am starting crossfit this month because I found a trainer who teaches, not pushes. Crossfit looks fun, engaging, and interesting. It also looks intense enough to keep my ADHD brain interested :-)

Finding what works for you is all that matters. I can tell you that when I run, I clamp down on my ankle a certain way and I'll fall over. I will bike ride a lot, and that's great. But, I meed a winter sport here in New England!

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