2

votes

Can Paleo stop working?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created March 07, 2012 at 6:06 PM

Because it seems to have perhaps to have stopped working for me. Its very odd. I've been doing it for 4 months, and it worked so gloriously for the first month, and now is less and less. I didn't start doing it just for weight loss, as I'm not really chubby, but did lose a bunch of weight, despite eating meat and eggs and vegetables all the live long day, as a result of being so hungry 24/7. I also concluded that I had had allergies to grains and dairy, as I instantly stopped waking up with puffy eyes. But I gradually gained the weight back for no apparent reason, and stopped being so wonderfully hungry all the time. And now I'm waking up with slightly puffy eyes again.

I've now tried every iteration of the Paleo diet, as I have Hashimoto's, but cannot regain how effortless it was at the beginning. I hate to abandon hope, but I have no more ideas! Initially I was a very zealous convert, as nothing has ever had that much effect on how I looked/felt. Has this happened to anyone, where one day Paleo just stopped working for you?

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on May 10, 2012
at 08:45 PM

That is fantastic to hear Celine! I'm glad you are feeling better!

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on May 09, 2012
at 08:23 PM

E-istre: I started taking Vitamin D and a couple other fat soluble vitamins, as well as a chelated multimineral, and it helped amazingly. I still have to be pretty careful with what I eat, but honestly it is so much better- I can't thank you enough for suggesting the supplementation!

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on March 09, 2012
at 05:28 PM

Thanks Dave, but I have it covered! I took like a week and a half off running, but I can't say it was effective. Except psychologically, of course, it made running way more fun for me when I started doing it again.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 09, 2012
at 01:37 PM

I would guess an anti-inflammatory is more helpful to you than not, since inflammation is probably out of whack in your body to begin with. And this stuff is confusing. The body and the thyroid especially do some wacky things.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 09, 2012
at 01:36 PM

Potentially. The idea is that if the immune system is a little calmer, than your symptoms should be a little better, since it is your own immune system that is attacking you. Higher levels of leptin would result in a higher immune response, and your body has an immune response to your thyroid. And an anti-inflammatory should be helpful. Inflammation is one of your body's immune responses, so decreasing that would, in theory, help. Though there is another school of thought that allowing inflammation to do its business is better, since its part of the healing process.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on March 09, 2012
at 08:12 AM

Wow, thanks. That's kind of major. So people with immune diseases don't want leptin because it "kicks the immune system into high gear"? And since I have Hashimoto's, mine already is? So...I tend to eat a lot of turmeric, because its such a good anti-inflammatory. Is that good or does it somehow further freak out my hyperactive immunity? Sorry, I'm a bit confused, not having a science background!

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 08, 2012
at 03:34 PM

http://www.webmd.com/multiple-sclerosis/news/20030116/feed-cold-starve-ms Leptin seems to play in to their viral analogue of MS, and an acute leptin drop can be triggered by intermittent fasting, so it may be worth trying out.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 08, 2012
at 03:33 PM

http://www.webmd.com/multiple-sclerosis/news/20030116/feed-cold-starve-ms
Leptin seems to play in to their viral analogue of MS, and an acute leptin drop can be triggered by intermittent fasting, so it may be worth trying out.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 08, 2012
at 03:32 PM

Found some other interesting stuff for you to consider, though sadly its also a mixed bag. But here is my theorizing, and its moot if you already practice intermittent fasting. But intermittent fasting lowers homocysteine levels, and increases circulating B12 and folate. Homocysteine is elevated in hypothyroid patients, so that may be worth trying out just to get those levels down. From what I gather lower inflammation in autoimmune disease is a good thing, since the immune system settles down. Also, found this interesting article.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 08, 2012
at 03:25 PM

Hm that sounds rather annoying. Autoimmune stuff is damn tricky. If we know what to listen to, our bodies are pretty wise about whats going on with them.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 08, 2012
at 02:07 PM

That's a fair bit of mileage. If you are overtraining, stress = cortisol and that can block fat loss. You might try backing off a bit or just have a few days off. Also, women need fat: http://huntgatherlove.com/content/why-women-need-fat

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on March 08, 2012
at 10:14 AM

My sunlight exposure should be sufficient- I've been making an effort to get about 30-45 minutes a day, but I can't say that it seems to produce an immediate effect. Should a few days of lots of sun make a difference, or would it take much longer? My exercise consists of running 5 or so times a week, maybe 20 miles, and my stress level is not overwhelming, although sufficient.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on March 08, 2012
at 10:13 AM

Dave- recently, honestly, my food intake has been all over the map, because no particular approach seems more effective than any other, but probably I should give one thing more than a couple of days. But its always only meat, veggies, fruit (I don't seem to be particularly sensitive to fructose), sweet potatoes, aaaaand some chocolate and sugar, admittedly. And olive oil, coconut, and coffee, obviously.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on March 08, 2012
at 10:08 AM

And I did eliminate nightshades for quite a while, and have been off dairy and legumes always, but recently reintroduced nightshades as they don't seem to be an issue for me.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on March 08, 2012
at 10:07 AM

Comprehensive, thanks! I'm sorry about your stomach- stupid adapting bodies. The sucky thing about Hashimoto's is that until its "fixed", however that happens, everything you do you can just become allergic to- everything will stop working. Or at least thats what I gather. I'm not actually getting regular blood tests, because I'm overseas and it would be quite tricky. So sort of shooting in the dark, just going off how I feel.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on March 08, 2012
at 09:56 AM

And thanks ExtraIdentity, I didn't really think about that. I think its decent- I have no digestive issues, although my skin has been breaking out since I went off antibiotics for it 6ish months ago. I don't eat fermented foods, but I'm not particularly prone to stomach sicknesses.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on March 08, 2012
at 09:54 AM

Korion- really? Verbatim, with the weight and the appetite and allergic-like eyes and everything? My iodine intake is non-existent- I'm overseas, and have no access to Selenium, so I haven't started supplementing it yet.

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on March 08, 2012
at 04:28 AM

There is something to consider. Low Calorie diets cause higher rT3, which displaces T3. That's a natural mechanism to protect from a famine. It's not caused by low carb itself. What you are talking about is different and that is caused by low calories.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on March 08, 2012
at 03:24 AM

In conclusion, no, I do not consider it dishonest to minimize the observation that low carbohydrate diets can lower T3. Such lowering is protective of lean mass, and does not appear to be harmful or indicative of hypothyroid. It is completely reversible, which indicates that it is not causing an impairment of function, but rather is part of normal thyroid function. Finally, it may even be beneficial. -Ambimorph

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on March 08, 2012
at 03:23 AM

In conclusion, no, I do not consider it dishonest to minimize the observation that low carbohydrate diets can lower T3. Such lowering is protective of lean mass, and does not appear to be harmful or indicative of hypothyroid. It is completely reversible, which indicates that it is not causing an impairment of function, but rather is part of normal thyroid function. Finally, it may even be beneficial.-Ambimprph And what is really being discussed with this is VLC.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on March 08, 2012
at 03:22 AM

http://paleohacks.com/questions/78343/is-lowered-t3-resulting-from-a-low-carb-diet-problematic#axzz1oUUbhf13

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 07, 2012
at 08:12 PM

How is your gut by the way? I just remembered that a healthy gut can lighten the load on the immune system, but having the stomach acid eliminate incoming pathogens on food.

56f585aeed92954cf45b94d3f5b3df98

(146)

on March 07, 2012
at 07:25 PM

T4 is converted to T3 in the liver, where a good amount of glycogen is stored. Why is it a mistake that people associate low carb with less efficient thyroid function? I may be acting like a Roddy thumper, but he may be on to something. http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2012/2/27/sugar-pure-white-awesome.html

56f585aeed92954cf45b94d3f5b3df98

(146)

on March 07, 2012
at 07:23 PM

T4 is converted to T3 in the liver, where a good amount of glycogen is stored. Why is it a mistake that people associate low carb with less efficient thyroid function? I may be acting like a Roddy http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2012/2/27/sugar-pure-white-awesome.html

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on March 07, 2012
at 06:30 PM

Same experience for me. I'm pretty sure it's my thyroid. How's your iodine intake?

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on March 07, 2012
at 06:27 PM

Most of the Paleo friendly thyroid docs I know of (plus mine) do less fat and more protien than your average Paleo, but carbs are carefully controlled, especially sugars.

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4 Answers

4
E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

on March 07, 2012
at 07:34 PM

If you are still eating eggs, you haven't quite tried everything. The below is Robb Wolf's autoimmune protocol, you can find in his faq. It means limiting basically every form of lectins and other irritants, so no nightshades, no dairy, no legumes, no grains. (I may be missing something.)

Autoimmunity
Emerging research has made clear the link between Neolithic foods (grains, legumes and dairy) and autoimmune diseases such as Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Multiple Sclerosis and a host of other less well know conditions. Many people have found significant improvements in autoimmune disease by eliminating the Neolithic foods and building a diet around nutritious Paleo options. If you suffer from an autoimmune disease we highly recommend you start a Paleo diet and let us know what your results are. To give your body its best chance to heal we recommend that you initially limit the following foods:

Eggs
Tomatoes & eggplants
Peppers, including bell peppers and hot peppers
Spices such as curries, paprika, and chili powder.

Some of these otherwise Paleo-friendly foods have been shown to be problematic in individuals with autoimmune issues. We recommend you fully remove not only these foods but also all Neolithic foods (grains, breads, potatoes, beans and dairy) for at least a month to see if they pose a problem for you.

I'll be honest with you man. Its been the same way for me in a lot of ways. I used to wake up every morning with crippling stomach pain, and going paleo fixed that. Its still gone, but my stomach has been getting a bit worse, or symptoms are becoming more apparent, and I'm pissed haha. I wanted to be done with the stuff. I've moved on now to eliminating fermentable sugars by eliminating FODMAPs. I don't know if this will be the end, or the fix all, and it probably won't be. Nutrtiion has to grow and shift with us as we move through life.

Also don't lose hope with this initial step back. The body is far more complex than we will ever realize, and perhaps this return of symptoms is a freak accident that will be gone in a month's time. As hard as it is for us to fathom, I'm sure the bodies cycles work just as much daily, as they do weekly, monthly, probably even yearly. Its a chaotic system, there is no predicting it. So lets move with it, and see where it takes us.

(Also a potential hypothesis for the worsening of the symptoms again, is that when you went paleo, your body had the chance to heal. In healing, it started to use up stores of fat-soluble vitamins and minerals. Now you may be depleted in those again, and the body can no longer heal.)

I'm a big believer in the fat soluble vitamins. I think that is our main modern deficiency given the quality of our meat and the lack of organ meats in our diets. You may want to investigate a supplement for Vitamin A (preformed retinyl palmitate), Vitamin D3, Vitamin K2 (as MK-4, menatetrenone), and Vitamin E (as tocopherols and tocotrienols). I take a fermented cod liver oil/butter oil blend from green pastures, but I'm not sure if there would be potential irritants for an autoimmune disease.

Doing some quick research there does seem to be correlation between vitamin d receptor polymorphisms and Hashimoto's. Hashimoto's seems to affect the body's innate processing of vitamin D. Some suggest it could be harmful, others that it could help. From what I've read on the synergistic effects of the fat-soluble vitamins, just taking one can be detrimental, but taking them all together will usually be helpful. Take this with a grain of salt. I have absolutely no qualifications other than a hobbyist. I would try the dietary approach first. Fat-soluble vitamins will boost the immune system and this may be the exact opposite of what you want to happen.

Also be careful about supplementing iodine. From what I've read, its a mixed bag. Sometimes it can exacerbate Hashimoto's, other times it can help. I assume you are already getting regular blood tests, and if not, you may want to start that, especially if you experiment with supplementation.

I wish you luck. I'll probably keep poking around in this area, and I'll come back here if I come up with anything.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on March 08, 2012
at 10:07 AM

Comprehensive, thanks! I'm sorry about your stomach- stupid adapting bodies. The sucky thing about Hashimoto's is that until its "fixed", however that happens, everything you do you can just become allergic to- everything will stop working. Or at least thats what I gather. I'm not actually getting regular blood tests, because I'm overseas and it would be quite tricky. So sort of shooting in the dark, just going off how I feel.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 08, 2012
at 03:34 PM

http://www.webmd.com/multiple-sclerosis/news/20030116/feed-cold-starve-ms Leptin seems to play in to their viral analogue of MS, and an acute leptin drop can be triggered by intermittent fasting, so it may be worth trying out.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 08, 2012
at 03:33 PM

http://www.webmd.com/multiple-sclerosis/news/20030116/feed-cold-starve-ms
Leptin seems to play in to their viral analogue of MS, and an acute leptin drop can be triggered by intermittent fasting, so it may be worth trying out.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 08, 2012
at 03:32 PM

Found some other interesting stuff for you to consider, though sadly its also a mixed bag. But here is my theorizing, and its moot if you already practice intermittent fasting. But intermittent fasting lowers homocysteine levels, and increases circulating B12 and folate. Homocysteine is elevated in hypothyroid patients, so that may be worth trying out just to get those levels down. From what I gather lower inflammation in autoimmune disease is a good thing, since the immune system settles down. Also, found this interesting article.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 09, 2012
at 01:37 PM

I would guess an anti-inflammatory is more helpful to you than not, since inflammation is probably out of whack in your body to begin with. And this stuff is confusing. The body and the thyroid especially do some wacky things.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 08, 2012
at 03:25 PM

Hm that sounds rather annoying. Autoimmune stuff is damn tricky. If we know what to listen to, our bodies are pretty wise about whats going on with them.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on March 09, 2012
at 08:12 AM

Wow, thanks. That's kind of major. So people with immune diseases don't want leptin because it "kicks the immune system into high gear"? And since I have Hashimoto's, mine already is? So...I tend to eat a lot of turmeric, because its such a good anti-inflammatory. Is that good or does it somehow further freak out my hyperactive immunity? Sorry, I'm a bit confused, not having a science background!

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on March 08, 2012
at 10:08 AM

And I did eliminate nightshades for quite a while, and have been off dairy and legumes always, but recently reintroduced nightshades as they don't seem to be an issue for me.

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on March 09, 2012
at 01:36 PM

Potentially. The idea is that if the immune system is a little calmer, than your symptoms should be a little better, since it is your own immune system that is attacking you. Higher levels of leptin would result in a higher immune response, and your body has an immune response to your thyroid. And an anti-inflammatory should be helpful. Inflammation is one of your body's immune responses, so decreasing that would, in theory, help. Though there is another school of thought that allowing inflammation to do its business is better, since its part of the healing process.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on May 09, 2012
at 08:23 PM

E-istre: I started taking Vitamin D and a couple other fat soluble vitamins, as well as a chelated multimineral, and it helped amazingly. I still have to be pretty careful with what I eat, but honestly it is so much better- I can't thank you enough for suggesting the supplementation!

E1c41fc9d29cec2c3066e000c9562d92

(730)

on May 10, 2012
at 08:45 PM

That is fantastic to hear Celine! I'm glad you are feeling better!

3
E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on March 07, 2012
at 06:23 PM

It sounds like your issue is Hashimoto's, not Paleo.

You picked the best diet for it, but don't listen to the "low carb kills thyroid" folks. That's a mistake on their part.

56f585aeed92954cf45b94d3f5b3df98

(146)

on March 07, 2012
at 07:23 PM

T4 is converted to T3 in the liver, where a good amount of glycogen is stored. Why is it a mistake that people associate low carb with less efficient thyroid function? I may be acting like a Roddy http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2012/2/27/sugar-pure-white-awesome.html

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on March 08, 2012
at 03:22 AM

http://paleohacks.com/questions/78343/is-lowered-t3-resulting-from-a-low-carb-diet-problematic#axzz1oUUbhf13

56f585aeed92954cf45b94d3f5b3df98

(146)

on March 07, 2012
at 07:25 PM

T4 is converted to T3 in the liver, where a good amount of glycogen is stored. Why is it a mistake that people associate low carb with less efficient thyroid function? I may be acting like a Roddy thumper, but he may be on to something. http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2012/2/27/sugar-pure-white-awesome.html

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on March 08, 2012
at 03:23 AM

In conclusion, no, I do not consider it dishonest to minimize the observation that low carbohydrate diets can lower T3. Such lowering is protective of lean mass, and does not appear to be harmful or indicative of hypothyroid. It is completely reversible, which indicates that it is not causing an impairment of function, but rather is part of normal thyroid function. Finally, it may even be beneficial.-Ambimprph And what is really being discussed with this is VLC.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on March 08, 2012
at 03:24 AM

In conclusion, no, I do not consider it dishonest to minimize the observation that low carbohydrate diets can lower T3. Such lowering is protective of lean mass, and does not appear to be harmful or indicative of hypothyroid. It is completely reversible, which indicates that it is not causing an impairment of function, but rather is part of normal thyroid function. Finally, it may even be beneficial. -Ambimorph

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on March 08, 2012
at 04:28 AM

There is something to consider. Low Calorie diets cause higher rT3, which displaces T3. That's a natural mechanism to protect from a famine. It's not caused by low carb itself. What you are talking about is different and that is caused by low calories.

1
Medium avatar

(2301)

on March 07, 2012
at 07:37 PM

Well.. look at it this way- What's the alternative? Going back to SAD? Paleo could only be helping. Things might be a lot worse if you quit.

0
A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 07, 2012
at 06:23 PM

Are you only eating meat, eggs & veggies? Could you post a typical day's food & also discuss your sleep/stress/exercise/sunlight exposure?

Lots of people here have had to tweak things to make it work for them.

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on March 07, 2012
at 06:27 PM

Most of the Paleo friendly thyroid docs I know of (plus mine) do less fat and more protien than your average Paleo, but carbs are carefully controlled, especially sugars.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on March 08, 2012
at 10:14 AM

My sunlight exposure should be sufficient- I've been making an effort to get about 30-45 minutes a day, but I can't say that it seems to produce an immediate effect. Should a few days of lots of sun make a difference, or would it take much longer? My exercise consists of running 5 or so times a week, maybe 20 miles, and my stress level is not overwhelming, although sufficient.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 08, 2012
at 02:07 PM

That's a fair bit of mileage. If you are overtraining, stress = cortisol and that can block fat loss. You might try backing off a bit or just have a few days off. Also, women need fat: http://huntgatherlove.com/content/why-women-need-fat

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on March 08, 2012
at 10:13 AM

Dave- recently, honestly, my food intake has been all over the map, because no particular approach seems more effective than any other, but probably I should give one thing more than a couple of days. But its always only meat, veggies, fruit (I don't seem to be particularly sensitive to fructose), sweet potatoes, aaaaand some chocolate and sugar, admittedly. And olive oil, coconut, and coffee, obviously.

Bdc6244bdbd664d2168a8e326018ffbe

(431)

on March 09, 2012
at 05:28 PM

Thanks Dave, but I have it covered! I took like a week and a half off running, but I can't say it was effective. Except psychologically, of course, it made running way more fun for me when I started doing it again.

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