4

votes

Can lupus be ameliorated (cured?) with Paleo?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 05, 2010 at 6:49 PM

Just saw this video:

G7 Stories - Veronica Garza from G7 Athletics.

And was wondering if any PaleoHackers have lupus? And if so, have seen benefits from eating Paleo?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 15, 2012
at 03:59 PM

I'd follow Ray Peat, cut out the cod liver oil and eat liver instead. I didn't know it was this, but apparently I've had lupus for over a year now, and paleo during the summer cured it almost, then I went zero-carb and it came back less severe. A lot of things have an effect on it, but Ray Peat seems to be the only person that really confirms every one of my experiments and results.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on November 08, 2011
at 05:06 AM

Yes, I think so. Autoimmune diseases related to connective tissues like lupus, RA, AS, Sjogren's, SS, Crest, etc. all seem to react to dairy and nightshades (diff degree for diff veggie). Gluten it's hard to tell unless you're celiac but there's ample evidence of gluten being the "battering ram" that will knock out your villi. But gluten sensitivity is asymptomatic. I've gone eggless for the last week and I seem to be noticing some improvement. In other words, YES, YES. Robb Wolf does seem to be correct. You really have to be strict when you have autoimmunity!

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on October 27, 2011
at 01:01 PM

And I misspoke. I've been gluten free 10.5 years. Some of the symptoms didn't resolve until much time has passed - much time on sufficient, Zn, Mg, D, A and potassium. Other symptoms took further tweaking of n3:n6 ratios, an increase in nutrient density etc. It'd be cool to make a timeline in order to more easily see what cropped up and resolved wtih what changes. Anyway, I think that while some improvements will happen rapidly, some will take a good bit of time when there has been significant damage and significant nutrient insufficiency or deficiency.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on October 27, 2011
at 12:57 PM

@Namby Pamby, I wasn't under the care of a specialist. Why, I'm not really sure except that even with all of those markers, I was feeling better than I had at any other time in my life. (the whole long story is up at MDA in my 'journal'). Keep in mind that I've been gluten free for 8 years (for the most part). The eczema and psoriasis went away immediately. Some of the others took five years to resolve - five years with a gluten free diet *and* five years of vitamin D supplementation (to 45-65 ng/mL), sufficient magnesium, sufficient zinc etc.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on October 07, 2011
at 07:18 PM

How is his Vitamin D level? He should be on the higher end of 50-80 ng/ml to help decrease inflammation. He probably needs zinc & magnesium supplements as well. 400-600 mg Magnesium & 20-30 mg Zinc. How is his sleep?

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on September 02, 2011
at 05:02 AM

General autoimmune protocol is strict avoidance of grains, legumes, and dairy along with nuts and nightshades.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on September 02, 2011
at 04:07 AM

After all, who wouldn't do anything for health? To be rid of my dry and puffy eyes, dry throat, brain fog, and general malaise, I am willing to do just about anything.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on September 02, 2011
at 04:04 AM

Curious, were you under the care of a rheumy for all those autoimmune diseases, which all seem to be connective tissue related? I too also seem to have Raynaud's, though it could be my cryptohypothyroidism which makes my digits cold. But if you truly had confirmed cases (ANA positive markers for all those conditions) and they all went into remission via Paleo, wow. I take my Paleo seriously but perhaps there is still room for improvement: go egg free and eat organic / grass-fed.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on September 02, 2011
at 03:59 AM

I do eat bone broth, which I cook on weekends, drinks lots of green team, and I take my supplements per Paul Jaminet's PHD! So I seem to be on the right track. Before I go egg-free, I will have to explore some substitute foods for breakfast. Sometimes, when I eat really clean like this for a while, I do feel great but the cylical nature of autoimmunity rears its ugly head with a bout of dry eyes and throat. My Sjogren SSB antibody has ranged from 5-7.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on September 02, 2011
at 03:53 AM

Wow, I wish I was like that. I have Sjogren's, Psoriasis, and have hypothyroid symptoms, though my blood tests say otherwise. My Sjogren symptoms improved by being gluten-/dairy- and night-shade free. I've experimented and when I bring dairy back, my symptoms worsen. I am not a stickler on eating organic/grass-fed beef and I eat 3 eggs daily (non-pasture/non-free range). I take 2 tsps of fish oil to balance out my n-6. My CRP is miniscule (0.3 the lowest detectable level) and sed rate is always 1 (the lowest). Yet I still have Sjogren symptoms (dry eyes and mouth) that occasionally flare.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on August 30, 2011
at 03:23 PM

I did test ANA pos for about two years. All - absolutely all of my symptoms of those AI issues have vanished. The only thing I deal with is raynaud's - the less concerning type and it's much much better. Paul Jaminet wrote something making me think that my few remaining, mild symptoms are of a chronic infection.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on August 30, 2011
at 04:08 AM

Did you actually test ANA positive for SLE and Sjogren's? And all your symptoms vanished? Do you still test positive for ANA and elevated for SSA, SSB, etc?

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on July 03, 2011
at 06:13 PM

It's also important to consider that excessive muscle meat protein (ie excessive tryptophan/methionine) can be inflammatory which is why 1)Paul Jaminet recommends limiting muscle meat protein consumption to 400 kcal per day 2) it's important to make sure that we're not relying too heavily on muscle meat but are eating a signficiant proportion of meat in the form of organ meats (maybe half?) and not just liver but also brain, sweetbreads, etc 3)we need bone/cartilage broths which provide the glycine necessary to balance out the methionine/tryptophan consumption from muscle meat.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on July 03, 2011
at 06:07 PM

While all of the above went away with "just" gluten and grain free, I will say that I did have remaining asymptomatic inflammation (high CRP) of unknown origin until I went really hardcore on eliminating all significant sources of n6 (ie no eating out). Fwiw, I do eat a lot of vegetables and have worked hard to reduced my skins sensitivity to....everything....by using retinoids, highly protective european sunscreen and ascorbic acid serum. Of course, the dietary changes significantly impact skin integrity (and therefore sensitivity) as well.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on July 03, 2011
at 06:04 PM

I vary carb intake - sometimes very low, sometimes not so low, ketosis sometimes, not all the time. I do fast once or twice a week. Occasionally i'll do a week of every other day fasting. Sometimes I won't fast for 2-3 weeks. Variability appears to be very important in order to maintain metabolic flexability even if not for immune function specifically.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on July 03, 2011
at 06:03 PM

Sleep is phenominally important. With insufficient or poor quality sleep, it's just about impossible to reduce inflammation and normalize immune function. Even though I occasionally drink alcohol, I do find that even moderate amounts of alcohol can decrease quality of sleep to allow inflammation to start to spiral out of control so while the alcohol doesn't appear to be a problem on it's own, it's affects on sleep are absolutely problematic. I'm limiting alcohol intake now to 'infrequently'.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on July 03, 2011
at 06:02 PM

I limit egg yolks to 1-2 per day and whole eggs to maybe 3 or 4 per week. Since the yolks tend to have about a 10:1 n6-n3 ratio, that's important to keep in mind.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on July 03, 2011
at 05:59 PM

It all went away with just gluten free. I do eat some dairy but admittedly not much - aside from cream. IMO the most important thing aside from grain free is to go seriously hard core on getting n3/n6 ratios down to the optimal 1-4:1 n6:n3 without relying on fish oil caps or liquid. Minimize poultry and pork, maximize (grassfed) ruminants and fatty fish. Completely avoid any and all seed/nut oils (which essentially means no restaurants unless you can be sure they'll use butter, coconut oil or non hydrogenated palm.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on July 02, 2011
at 06:25 PM

what kind of diet are you on? Are you gluten-, dairy-, egg-, and nightshade-free?

8ded3efd61993dc09fcc9d5254de86bc

(0)

on June 30, 2011
at 06:05 PM

Very interesting! Do you remember which study this was? (The link you posted was to a book, and I did a web search, but I couldn't turn the study up.)

6a0f15fbbfed36fe7a24a00c5e868f58

(45)

on May 07, 2011
at 01:37 AM

thank you for posting this, I'm borderline SLE with accompanying photosensitivity and really hoping this diet works! Are you full paleo or do you do dairy?

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on April 06, 2011
at 03:27 PM

yeah, i'd agree that healthy eating is healthy eating, and prolly tends to ameliorate any problem that has come from unhealthy eating.

95ab15c8ef50ff0daf87ccbdd52cd3b8

(2384)

on August 07, 2010
at 12:55 AM

It's amazing how many autoimmune diseases seem to be at least somewhat linked to gluten. It's not at all surprising to see a link between gluten and lupus being suggested.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on August 06, 2010
at 12:07 AM

Wow. If that is true, then it is heart-breaking that it took so long for it be figured out.

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12 Answers

8
Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

on July 02, 2011
at 03:29 PM

At one point I had celiac, psoriasis, several markers of Lupus, several markers of rheumatoid arthritis, virtually all of the markers of Sjogrens, many symptoms of fibromyalgia and a couple symptoms of MS.

It's all gone, gone, gone. All of it.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on July 03, 2011
at 05:59 PM

It all went away with just gluten free. I do eat some dairy but admittedly not much - aside from cream. IMO the most important thing aside from grain free is to go seriously hard core on getting n3/n6 ratios down to the optimal 1-4:1 n6:n3 without relying on fish oil caps or liquid. Minimize poultry and pork, maximize (grassfed) ruminants and fatty fish. Completely avoid any and all seed/nut oils (which essentially means no restaurants unless you can be sure they'll use butter, coconut oil or non hydrogenated palm.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on July 02, 2011
at 06:25 PM

what kind of diet are you on? Are you gluten-, dairy-, egg-, and nightshade-free?

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on July 03, 2011
at 06:03 PM

Sleep is phenominally important. With insufficient or poor quality sleep, it's just about impossible to reduce inflammation and normalize immune function. Even though I occasionally drink alcohol, I do find that even moderate amounts of alcohol can decrease quality of sleep to allow inflammation to start to spiral out of control so while the alcohol doesn't appear to be a problem on it's own, it's affects on sleep are absolutely problematic. I'm limiting alcohol intake now to 'infrequently'.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on July 03, 2011
at 06:02 PM

I limit egg yolks to 1-2 per day and whole eggs to maybe 3 or 4 per week. Since the yolks tend to have about a 10:1 n6-n3 ratio, that's important to keep in mind.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on July 03, 2011
at 06:13 PM

It's also important to consider that excessive muscle meat protein (ie excessive tryptophan/methionine) can be inflammatory which is why 1)Paul Jaminet recommends limiting muscle meat protein consumption to 400 kcal per day 2) it's important to make sure that we're not relying too heavily on muscle meat but are eating a signficiant proportion of meat in the form of organ meats (maybe half?) and not just liver but also brain, sweetbreads, etc 3)we need bone/cartilage broths which provide the glycine necessary to balance out the methionine/tryptophan consumption from muscle meat.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on July 03, 2011
at 06:07 PM

While all of the above went away with "just" gluten and grain free, I will say that I did have remaining asymptomatic inflammation (high CRP) of unknown origin until I went really hardcore on eliminating all significant sources of n6 (ie no eating out). Fwiw, I do eat a lot of vegetables and have worked hard to reduced my skins sensitivity to....everything....by using retinoids, highly protective european sunscreen and ascorbic acid serum. Of course, the dietary changes significantly impact skin integrity (and therefore sensitivity) as well.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on July 03, 2011
at 06:04 PM

I vary carb intake - sometimes very low, sometimes not so low, ketosis sometimes, not all the time. I do fast once or twice a week. Occasionally i'll do a week of every other day fasting. Sometimes I won't fast for 2-3 weeks. Variability appears to be very important in order to maintain metabolic flexability even if not for immune function specifically.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on August 30, 2011
at 03:23 PM

I did test ANA pos for about two years. All - absolutely all of my symptoms of those AI issues have vanished. The only thing I deal with is raynaud's - the less concerning type and it's much much better. Paul Jaminet wrote something making me think that my few remaining, mild symptoms are of a chronic infection.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on August 30, 2011
at 04:08 AM

Did you actually test ANA positive for SLE and Sjogren's? And all your symptoms vanished? Do you still test positive for ANA and elevated for SSA, SSB, etc?

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on September 02, 2011
at 04:04 AM

Curious, were you under the care of a rheumy for all those autoimmune diseases, which all seem to be connective tissue related? I too also seem to have Raynaud's, though it could be my cryptohypothyroidism which makes my digits cold. But if you truly had confirmed cases (ANA positive markers for all those conditions) and they all went into remission via Paleo, wow. I take my Paleo seriously but perhaps there is still room for improvement: go egg free and eat organic / grass-fed.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on September 02, 2011
at 03:53 AM

Wow, I wish I was like that. I have Sjogren's, Psoriasis, and have hypothyroid symptoms, though my blood tests say otherwise. My Sjogren symptoms improved by being gluten-/dairy- and night-shade free. I've experimented and when I bring dairy back, my symptoms worsen. I am not a stickler on eating organic/grass-fed beef and I eat 3 eggs daily (non-pasture/non-free range). I take 2 tsps of fish oil to balance out my n-6. My CRP is miniscule (0.3 the lowest detectable level) and sed rate is always 1 (the lowest). Yet I still have Sjogren symptoms (dry eyes and mouth) that occasionally flare.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on September 02, 2011
at 04:07 AM

After all, who wouldn't do anything for health? To be rid of my dry and puffy eyes, dry throat, brain fog, and general malaise, I am willing to do just about anything.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on September 02, 2011
at 03:59 AM

I do eat bone broth, which I cook on weekends, drinks lots of green team, and I take my supplements per Paul Jaminet's PHD! So I seem to be on the right track. Before I go egg-free, I will have to explore some substitute foods for breakfast. Sometimes, when I eat really clean like this for a while, I do feel great but the cylical nature of autoimmunity rears its ugly head with a bout of dry eyes and throat. My Sjogren SSB antibody has ranged from 5-7.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on October 27, 2011
at 01:01 PM

And I misspoke. I've been gluten free 10.5 years. Some of the symptoms didn't resolve until much time has passed - much time on sufficient, Zn, Mg, D, A and potassium. Other symptoms took further tweaking of n3:n6 ratios, an increase in nutrient density etc. It'd be cool to make a timeline in order to more easily see what cropped up and resolved wtih what changes. Anyway, I think that while some improvements will happen rapidly, some will take a good bit of time when there has been significant damage and significant nutrient insufficiency or deficiency.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on October 27, 2011
at 12:57 PM

@Namby Pamby, I wasn't under the care of a specialist. Why, I'm not really sure except that even with all of those markers, I was feeling better than I had at any other time in my life. (the whole long story is up at MDA in my 'journal'). Keep in mind that I've been gluten free for 8 years (for the most part). The eczema and psoriasis went away immediately. Some of the others took five years to resolve - five years with a gluten free diet *and* five years of vitamin D supplementation (to 45-65 ng/mL), sufficient magnesium, sufficient zinc etc.

4
03b67d2b8e9e878147cb3f225c864207

(761)

on August 05, 2010
at 07:25 PM

Here's a good article:

"Lupus May be Gluten Allergy" http://bastyrcenter.org/content/view/703/

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on August 06, 2010
at 12:07 AM

Wow. If that is true, then it is heart-breaking that it took so long for it be figured out.

95ab15c8ef50ff0daf87ccbdd52cd3b8

(2384)

on August 07, 2010
at 12:55 AM

It's amazing how many autoimmune diseases seem to be at least somewhat linked to gluten. It's not at all surprising to see a link between gluten and lupus being suggested.

3
2e7351984ceac4320df5b93f1314f34b

(30)

on April 06, 2011
at 03:24 PM

Hi everyone,

This is my very post here.

I'm a sufferer of SLE. However, since I switched to paleo about 2 years ago the symptoms have completely disappeared. My doctor was shocked when I told him this, and he can't believe a diet change did this.

6a0f15fbbfed36fe7a24a00c5e868f58

(45)

on May 07, 2011
at 01:37 AM

thank you for posting this, I'm borderline SLE with accompanying photosensitivity and really hoping this diet works! Are you full paleo or do you do dairy?

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on September 02, 2011
at 05:02 AM

General autoimmune protocol is strict avoidance of grains, legumes, and dairy along with nuts and nightshades.

3
62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 06, 2010
at 04:53 AM

How many problems might be at least partially ameliorated if not cured by a better understanding of dietary needs. The more I think about it and the more I read, the more exciting it is. Of course, much of the general population still thinks that's just crazy talk. They are used to thinking of most illness and degeneration as 'genetic' or a natural part of aging. They are used to what has always been around them. Without perspective, it's so very hard to see. -Eva

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on April 06, 2011
at 03:27 PM

yeah, i'd agree that healthy eating is healthy eating, and prolly tends to ameliorate any problem that has come from unhealthy eating.

2
41e79168f1df5d656b6c4f3fef8c9b46

(630)

on September 01, 2011
at 06:22 PM

Hello!!!!! I was diagnosis with lupus while I was a vegetarian, pre PALEO knowledge!!! THen I became paleo- still with little knowledge about the effects and had some tests done. I was removed from the lupus list!!! Then I found out that grains cause an inflammatory response, hench the lupus!!! paleo and without lupus! (29yo, female)

2
0fb8b3d6dcfb279b0f7e050d2d22510f

(4645)

on August 06, 2010
at 01:04 PM

Paleo is best as a preventive not a cure but its never to late to start.

1
B6377a56eec4c33a961d7989e068200d

(10)

on October 07, 2011
at 04:38 PM

My son with lupus and psoriasis went totally paleo with cod liver oil and coconut oil added, also eliminated nightshades, but he's now worse than ever. He has so much inflammation, migraines and terrible joint and muscle pain. He's 33. Why no results? He quit his meds, but no pain relief. Now winter is coming and I fear for him.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on October 07, 2011
at 07:18 PM

How is his Vitamin D level? He should be on the higher end of 50-80 ng/ml to help decrease inflammation. He probably needs zinc & magnesium supplements as well. 400-600 mg Magnesium & 20-30 mg Zinc. How is his sleep?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 15, 2012
at 03:59 PM

I'd follow Ray Peat, cut out the cod liver oil and eat liver instead. I didn't know it was this, but apparently I've had lupus for over a year now, and paleo during the summer cured it almost, then I went zero-carb and it came back less severe. A lot of things have an effect on it, but Ray Peat seems to be the only person that really confirms every one of my experiments and results.

1
Af842c68e3d07fa0e35b4274f3acaeec

on August 05, 2010
at 07:18 PM

Yes! At least, according to a study done in France! Out of 13 cases of Systemic Lupus Erythematosus, 6 patients(46%) had total remission of the disease, 3 patients had 90% improvement in symptoms, 4 patients had at least a 50% improvement in symptoms. All patients had AT LEAST a 50% improvement in symptoms. Beautiful stuff this is!

Genefit

8ded3efd61993dc09fcc9d5254de86bc

(0)

on June 30, 2011
at 06:05 PM

Very interesting! Do you remember which study this was? (The link you posted was to a book, and I did a web search, but I couldn't turn the study up.)

0
4da8f502012ef8003af59bf5f4ddad0c

on January 04, 2013
at 04:31 AM

http://paleozonenutrition.com/2011/04/01/dr-jean-seignalet-ancestral-diet-and-auto-immune-disease-trials/

Here is the study Genefit was talking about, about 13 Lupus patients have 100% success when it was defined by feeling 50% or better. 6 having total remission.

0
0c05d282b1440d8a15d8e8f883276375

(0)

on December 24, 2011
at 03:04 PM

My son with lupus and psoriasis went totally paleo with cod liver oil and coconut oil added, also eliminated nightshades, but he's now worse than ever. He has so much inflammation, migraines and terrible joint and muscle pain. He's 33. Why no results? He quit his meds, but no pain relief. Now winter is coming and I fear for him.

He should not quit his meds before any improvement and under medical supervision.

0
109c50779c3875f1864635d8ffc328c3

on November 08, 2011
at 04:18 AM

when trying to put lupus into remission, is it best to eliminate all autoimmune sensitive foods including nightshades and eggs?

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on November 08, 2011
at 05:06 AM

Yes, I think so. Autoimmune diseases related to connective tissues like lupus, RA, AS, Sjogren's, SS, Crest, etc. all seem to react to dairy and nightshades (diff degree for diff veggie). Gluten it's hard to tell unless you're celiac but there's ample evidence of gluten being the "battering ram" that will knock out your villi. But gluten sensitivity is asymptomatic. I've gone eggless for the last week and I seem to be noticing some improvement. In other words, YES, YES. Robb Wolf does seem to be correct. You really have to be strict when you have autoimmunity!

0
3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

on July 01, 2011
at 08:20 PM

To SLE sufferers? What are your comorbidities? Do you also suffer from Sjogren's, Rheumatoid Arthritis or MS? How about T1 or T2 diabetes?

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