-9

votes

Are YOU Fasting for food related problems?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created December 18, 2011 at 4:24 AM

Are you fasting in some form? Why not?!

Look, I keep seeing the same thing over and over and over again on here:

1) Im not losing weight (anymore) and doing perfect Paleo

&

2) Im doing perfect Paleo and have horrible Bloat/Headaches/Shakiness/Bloat/Constipation/Hunger/Weight Gain/etc....

Are you fasting? No? Then you're not 'living' like our Paleolithic ancestors. It's that simple, and you're missing out.

Think about it folks, "I keep eating perfect Paleo and cant lose weight anymore or I'm gaining weight"

Its not the Paleo, its the 'I keep eating'

Breakfast is NOT the most important meal of the day,it never was, you were lied to by the same people that want you eating the food pyramid/plate and HFCS.

We do NOT need 6 meals, or even 3 for that matter per day, every day, all the time.

NOT eating raises epinephrine and nor epinephrine, making you feel like moving, feel good, active, alert, sharp, ALL the things people look for in an anti-depressant when the answer is to simply take nothing.

Do you think that going 24+ hours with only drinking coffee/tea and water is bad for you? Of course its not. What do you think would happen to your 'bloat?' Weight? Enzyme Levels?

Bloat won't exist, weight will be down, enzyme levels will be up, feel good chemicals will be up, etc.

Please post benefits of fasting you have experienced so that others can feel more comfortable trying it out.

Update Below Perfect Example: "So Ive dropped my carbs to below 20, count every single calorie, every single crumb that enters my mouth and make sure that it is within my caloric deficit needs, I eat healthy fats and moderate proteins. and I am still storing tons of body fat. Visibly gaining inches, measured body fat increase, and visible fat and dimpled skin that I never had.

I don't eat fruit, nuts, or ANYTHING processed or outside of completely perfect Paleo. What is happening?

Is it possible that my body just doesn't like Paleo ? What can I do to stop this fat gain?"

** THAT is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of what I am talking about.

YES! Made it to -10 *

D3f3b91d1dd9ce60865654faeb2ec809

on December 22, 2011
at 05:34 AM

Why so many downvotes? In my experience, the concept that the OP described is spot-on.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on December 19, 2011
at 08:24 PM

I smell a prank, and for that reason I'll give you the downvote you desire. Hope you get a PR!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 19, 2011
at 12:24 AM

Amen. As a former 7 meal a-day, adrenal damaged guy, I never imagined a two meal day. Very relaxing ..You were the first to defend this question. I mustered "courage"from your Rosa Parke-esque position,and assumed my PCLU position. I enjoyed the afternoon doing so, before , during and after the Patriots-Broncos game watching Bellichick's Paleo Patriots aginst Tebow's Creationist Broncos. Good times.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 18, 2011
at 10:50 PM

Because that's not as sound scientifically, historically, logically or in anyone's experience.

6cca02352c216b4ca8325fda7d83832c

(1042)

on December 18, 2011
at 10:42 PM

About the job, I am assuming it involves telecommuting? Actually my brother needs a job more than I do right now because I have some good leads but he doesn't, although we both have plenty of experience with research and computers. My contact info is on my profile page.

6cca02352c216b4ca8325fda7d83832c

(1042)

on December 18, 2011
at 09:59 PM

@shah78 you are correct, I intended no offense at all toward Bill and was agreeing with the essence of his post. When I said qualifications, I meant "a condition that modifies or limits; restriction", not the definition Bill interpreted the word as meaning - "an ability, quality, or attribute, esp one that fits a person to perform a particular job or task". Personally I don't think it matters what your professional qualifications are if your statements are based on sound logic and evidence, which they are for the most part.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on December 18, 2011
at 09:38 PM

So many people couple a high fat diet with a no food diet...why not just lower the fat?

Medium avatar

(39821)

on December 18, 2011
at 09:37 PM

Fasting beyond what occurs during sleep isn't necessary at all for fat loss unless the person is eating fat unnecessarily.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 18, 2011
at 09:36 PM

Bill, as you PCLU(PaleoCivilLibertiesUnion) lawyer on this question, I can find no offense to you in Jon"s answer. I was just about to ask him if he was for , or against yourquestion. I couldn't and still can't decide. There's a hell of a lot more venom directed toward you from others. No?

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on December 18, 2011
at 09:21 PM

Im just beside myself that anyone would come on here, slam what I had to say, agree with what I said AND make 100% UNQUALIFIED and FALSE statements all in one post.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on December 18, 2011
at 09:16 PM

First off, you do not know me, so you do not know my qualifications, which are many. Second, what I do for a living is create workouts and meal plans for a VERY large fee and I am EXTREMELY successful at it both from a business standpoint and from an absolute results standpoint. 3rd: You make those statements in your first paragraph then spout bullshit in your second:"never fast: growing children, pregnant women, athletes, people with either type of diabetes" REALLY? Athletes and TypeII diabetics shouldnt fast?!?! Did santa claus tell you that?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 18, 2011
at 09:10 PM

excellent answer...... Do you need a part time job? I need a reseacher/computer guy.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on December 18, 2011
at 09:04 PM

Well again the OP's position is that if you're not fasting you're not paleo which is complete bs. Yes he ruined a perfectly defensible idea by playing paleo police. I really don't think people need to even consider fasting until they have their paleo food at a certain comfort level. We can't insist people put down the ding dongs AND go a day without eating right out of the gate. That's not good. It's just too much. As far as I'm concerned they never have to consider if it they don't want to for whatever reason and NO ONE gets to dictate to anyone that they are "doing it" wrong.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 18, 2011
at 08:29 PM

Eventually they stopped complaining, and I stopped having to "condescend" to them .

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 18, 2011
at 08:22 PM

@ Nance and Andym . Now that you both mentioned it, I agree ,that IF has had the same result for me . IF IS a "teaching tool". Done amongst abundance (America), it can be a very gentle, but profound lesson.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on December 18, 2011
at 08:21 PM

For sure, but most folk feel it's effects and think they *need* to eat. My point is that I can feel hungry and it's really OK not to eat, unless I want to. (I would never voluntarily fast more than 36 hours, just in case someone is wondering!)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 18, 2011
at 08:18 PM

+! Your answer is the opposite side of my "coin" of yesterday. Fasting reorchestrated your views about food. Hitting the sweet spot of nutritional balance reorchestrates my views about food. Can you show me some love on this one? Come on?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 18, 2011
at 08:09 PM

Pretending to do Paleo is fine. 80/20 is ok. 60/40 is ok. 10/90 is better than my parents did, who ended up in an Alzheimers ward. Both at the same time. They shared the same room! Why? They ate the same shit for thirty years! I said the same thing to them when they complained about things. Eat better, stop poisoning yourself.

C56baa1b4f39839c018180bf63226f7d

(3499)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:52 PM

-1 for phrasing your question in the form of an answer, or posting your answer to a question not asked as a question itself. there's a Celebrity Jeopardy joke in here somewhere...

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:50 PM

move on conciliator, ya Troll

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:42 PM

Ghrelin kicks in regardless of whether you fast or not...

6cca02352c216b4ca8325fda7d83832c

(1042)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:33 PM

Living in poverty with only 1 meal per day lately I couldn't agree more. Although not healthy long term, fasting for extended periods of time completely changes your relationship with food so that you actually enjoy and appreciate it much more than when you have any food your mind desires whenever you want it 24/7.

B9637ddb9a9a5c6a7306e3c804fcd21d

(3217)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:28 PM

Bill - I agree with you, and Mark, that only properly fat-adapted people should go for IF. But, what I wanted to stress with the link, is that he also mentions that if you're in a lot of stress, or if you're a teen, perhaps its best to put it off. Also, some people just don't work well with it, its a personal thing.

B9637ddb9a9a5c6a7306e3c804fcd21d

(3217)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:25 PM

Ambimorph - about the carbs - even if you eat paleo-approved starches like tubers, your carbs would still fall very short of the SAD level, wouldn't they? I mean, I don't think you would get the sugar high/crash vicious circle even on higher carb paleo. That said, people with metabolic disorders usually go LC at the beginning.

B9637ddb9a9a5c6a7306e3c804fcd21d

(3217)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:21 PM

Ambimorph - undoubtedly, fasting played a role, but I think that generally applies to anything stimulating hormesis - acute stressors, like periods of scarcity, occasional harsh climate. I think it also played a role in selection in the sense that only the strongest survived periods of scarcity/harshness. That sentence did come out a bit one-sided now I re-read. Though, I don't know if this means those exposed to scarcity would be healthier than peoples in more forgiving environments? It's interesting.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:21 PM

I agree with you Ambimorph, since I employ IF nearly every day. But I don't think you have to IF to consider yourself an ancestral eater. That's the only point I was trying to make in my answer.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:03 PM

I do the same, and I settle into a rhythm of 4-5 meals a day. Tried IF for a year with poor results. So I agree with you, disagree strongly with the OP.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:03 PM

Also, you say "When you eat paleo, your hormones calm down from all the carbo-yo-yoing theyve been doing", but this is only true for LC paleo. There are plenty of people here who eating high carb or irregular carb levels.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:02 PM

I agree with almost all of your answer. I don't feel so certain about the statement "we do not owe evolution to fasting but to the nutrition", because I wonder how much the healthfulness of fasting actually did play a role in fitness for selective advantage.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on December 18, 2011
at 06:54 PM

I might be one of the few here who appreciate your post, oh well...

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 18, 2011
at 06:54 PM

Of course we can't be sure, but the idea that some fasting didn't happen fairly commonly seems implausible to me.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on December 18, 2011
at 06:48 PM

Right, Mark states that your not ready to fast, if your not actually doing Paleo/Primal until you 'get your ducks in a row'. This was exactly my point of writing this, that someone who is/has been doing perfect paleo should imo and Marks, incorporate fasting for the numerous benefits that often alleviate many problems people are having.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 18, 2011
at 06:44 PM

You are clueless. Eating raises catecholamines. Catecholamines are not 'feel good' molecules, it's not that simple. Maybe read more than 2 pub med abstracts and leangains before forming an opinion.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 18, 2011
at 06:17 PM

I agree. There are some plausible points buried in that question, but the presentation destroys them.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 18, 2011
at 06:14 PM

I agree with you both. (1) You can certainly do Paleo without fasting. (2) The way Bill expressed himself made a possibly defensible position condescending, overgeneral, and wrong. However (3) The position that fasting was almost certainly an important health component of paleo diets is a compelling one (tangentially I even hypothesize it may be the reason Kitavans and Tarahumara can tolerate HC -- they get enough ketosis through some form of fasting) and (4) if you buy that fasting is an important practice that people should at least try, then most excuses not to *try* are kind of lame.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 18, 2011
at 06:13 PM

@AndyM, I'm not feeling any desperation. I just think people in some locales would've been forced into feast/famine cycles and people in others would have plentiful food options for long periods. So, it's okay to do what works best for you (in timing and size of meals) without trying to push everyone into one mold.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 18, 2011
at 05:39 PM

Well that's all a matter of definition isn't it? I think there's a certain kind of almost desperation in the way some people try to redefine paleo to keep it inclusive. If something doesn't work for someone then we are afraid to say paleo doesn't work or accuse them of doing it wrong, so we instead broaden the definition to the point where it loses meaning. It would seem the bet thing would be for everyone to acknowledge they are only ever doing partial paleo to avoid this whole thing.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 18, 2011
at 05:37 PM

Take your time! It took weeks if not months for me to notice that meal time would come but I didn't need to eat yet. I just waited and, when I did eat, I made sure I ate a complete meal that would last a while. Over time, I got more and more comfortable with not eating for long stretches but I never forced it.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 18, 2011
at 05:35 PM

This! The new lesson for me with IF has been that the longer the intervals between my meals, the calmer my GI tract is and the less likely I am to suffer binge impulses. That's a major revelation.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 18, 2011
at 05:33 PM

Yes, given the way so many of us enjoy IF I believe there was variability. I just don't think you HAVE to IF to consider yourself "paleo."

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on December 18, 2011
at 05:30 PM

The more disdain you express, the healthier you become. Disdain in what keeps human groups thriving. It's what our ancestors did, ya know.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on December 18, 2011
at 05:08 PM

You can score even more points if you repeatedly announce how much superhuman discipline, endurance, and manliness you possess. Self-regard pairs so well with contempt for others, don't you think?

Cfa2637d1b6ec288d32379de06415792

(235)

on December 18, 2011
at 04:30 PM

My heart beats really fast and my legs get a bit more swollen than normal. I still haven't tried long enough, but I think since I introduced more bananas and coconut milk to my diet, I have had a slight improvement and could stay fasted longer without much trouble.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on December 18, 2011
at 04:18 PM

Pygeum bark can be therapeutic, but the dose has to be correct.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 18, 2011
at 04:07 PM

Not you specifically. And as I said (again) the issue is with people who are complaining they are not getting the results they wanted despite doing full paleo. They are the ones claiming that there is a defined paleo they can achieve. I've nothing against the idea that no-one is really living paleolithically, but there's some identifiable elements of that life which are disregarded without good reason. So if not fasting isn't working for them, perhaps they should consider fasting. What's wrong with that?

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on December 18, 2011
at 03:55 PM

Andy that is not what I said and you know it. MY SAD diet? Intellectually bankrupt? Are you serious? That paleo stick that's up your ass has got to hurt.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 18, 2011
at 03:48 PM

As I said, there's plenty of people here who would celebrate your right to define your SAD diet as paleo, because paleo means whatever you think works best for you, even if you haven't tried any alternatives. It's intellectually bankrupt.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on December 18, 2011
at 03:29 PM

Our paleo ancestors were infested with ecto-parasites. If you are not covered in lice, ticks, and fleas and think that you are doing pure paleo, you are not. Ecto-parasites aid in weight loss and grooming is a great way to bond with your mate. Plus, they are high in essential protein.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on December 18, 2011
at 03:23 PM

I am Juan Valdez, and I (and my donkey) approve this message.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on December 18, 2011
at 03:20 PM

This sounds like a sales pitch for an upcoming "No food diet" e-book.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on December 18, 2011
at 02:40 PM

Yup, that's pretty much how I do it too.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on December 18, 2011
at 02:19 PM

Arabica beans are totally Paleo!!!

6714718e2245e5190017d643a7614157

on December 18, 2011
at 02:18 PM

+1 For Juan Valdez reference. ;-)

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on December 18, 2011
at 01:45 PM

-1. This isn't a question, but a statement of how you seem to have the answers while disparaging people's struggles.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on December 18, 2011
at 01:44 PM

-1. This isn't a question, but a statement of how you know it all while disparaging people's struggles.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on December 18, 2011
at 01:32 PM

While your edits are most welcome to see anyone guaranteeing weight loss, no more need for medications, annihilation of bloat and whatever else you've thrown in here is just ridiculous. And I am beyond thrilled to see you have figured out why everyone here who is struggling with weight loss is struggling! So we're all just eating too much? Yeah fat people are just asking for it with all that damn eating they do. What a bunch of idiots we are. Seriously this is one of the most condescending, ridiculous posts I've ever seen on PH.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on December 18, 2011
at 01:22 PM

I would still disagree with that Andy. What is this perfect paleo "pure" bs? You guys all need to lighten up. And if people want to dismiss something before trying that is there prerogative. This attitude that there is only one way to do paleo and if you don't join in on the latest whatever you are doing it right is just plain bs.

Bad3a78e228c67a7513c28f17c36b3cf

(1387)

on December 18, 2011
at 01:01 PM

Very True. That was a revelation for me as well.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 18, 2011
at 11:12 AM

Have you noticed a particular effect on your circulation when fasting?

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 18, 2011
at 10:59 AM

Eating 3 meals a day though is a relatively recent cultural construct, and even then only in some countries. It depends a bit on definition, but even your suppositions on the HGs suggests that there was variability to when, what and how much they ate from day to day.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 18, 2011
at 10:53 AM

I think Bill's point was that some people believe they're doing paleo as 'pure' as possible and are worried they still don't get the results they want. And if there's aspects of the lifestyle they're missing (and many people think meal frequency is as significant as food type) then they ought to at least trying it before dismissing it. When I hear people say they can't do fasting, it's the same voice that says "I could never give up bread". I'm pretty sure people who choose bread works for them will be considered just as paleo by some soon.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on December 18, 2011
at 05:36 AM

And once again I must disagree with you. I didn't say fasting wasn't "paleo". You said people who choose not to fast are not. Big difference! While the practice of fasting certainly falls within the parameters of paleo-like behaviors it is not required of anyone who chooses to follow a paleo way of eating. You have a very narrow definition which, again, appears to work for you. But what works for you or anyone else may not work for others. You need to lighten up on others who choose a different path. Judgment is not really all that paleo it seems to me.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on December 18, 2011
at 04:53 AM

The act of Fasting may not be one of the 'foods' eatable on the 'Paleo Diet' but it most certainly IS Paleo, it most certainly was something that Billions of our Paleolithic ancestors did as certain as they consumed animals and I never recommended it to Paleo beginners but now that I think about it Paleo beginners should probably incorporate a 24 hour fast as soon as possible in their quest for a healthy lifestyle change.

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15 Answers

best answer

7
Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 18, 2011
at 11:14 AM

Main benefit of fasting - learning that almost all those feelings from the stomach I used to fix by eating actually resolve themselves better without food being dumped in there.

Bad3a78e228c67a7513c28f17c36b3cf

(1387)

on December 18, 2011
at 01:01 PM

Very True. That was a revelation for me as well.

6cca02352c216b4ca8325fda7d83832c

(1042)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:33 PM

Living in poverty with only 1 meal per day lately I couldn't agree more. Although not healthy long term, fasting for extended periods of time completely changes your relationship with food so that you actually enjoy and appreciate it much more than when you have any food your mind desires whenever you want it 24/7.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 18, 2011
at 08:22 PM

@ Nance and Andym . Now that you both mentioned it, I agree ,that IF has had the same result for me . IF IS a "teaching tool". Done amongst abundance (America), it can be a very gentle, but profound lesson.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 18, 2011
at 08:18 PM

+! Your answer is the opposite side of my "coin" of yesterday. Fasting reorchestrated your views about food. Hitting the sweet spot of nutritional balance reorchestrates my views about food. Can you show me some love on this one? Come on?

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 18, 2011
at 05:35 PM

This! The new lesson for me with IF has been that the longer the intervals between my meals, the calmer my GI tract is and the less likely I am to suffer binge impulses. That's a major revelation.

best answer

4
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 18, 2011
at 08:02 PM

First Travis, then me , now Bill. We get "hammered" for trying to push people towards there better selves. :):):)...... Now before the booes begin afalling atop my head. Let me state (long pause) ( Very long pause). We are only responding to the people who get on here constantly , every hour , of every day, of every week ,of every month, of "both" the PH"S years and whine about some problem they have with the Paleo diet. As Andy M correctly stated below, much of time the Paleo diet described to us , by the whinner, is some SAD mutant form of Paleo being passed off by the whinner as Paleo. So Travis, Bill and myself chime in with our "very helpful "comments.(Sarcasm!!!) All hell breaks loose! Calls of arrogance, the ever so annoying "I am so glad it works for you". ...... .....I detect no condescendence in Bill's question. Not one scintilla.... I do IF up to 18 hours, but I shudder at going too far past that point. For now.... I can't come close to ketosis, but I would love to feel the alternate reality it seems to portend. So, I'm actually on the OTHER ("WRONG") side of Bill's opinion. I feel no offense at his saying I "could "try fasting. Because I consider my Paleo results to be "Magificent" the way they are., I do not read a "should fast" or" "must fast" into his question. Why would I. If is ain't broke....... If it is broke , maybe try some of the suggestions offered, by people answering the questions submitted by people whinning about their problems. Answers are from people doing Paleo to people not "really doing Paleo". I call not really doing Paleo, "Paleo theater " "Paleo theater" is not Paleo."The Rainman" is not Dustin Hoffman . Dorothy is not Judy Garland. Charlie Sheen is.......

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 18, 2011
at 08:29 PM

Eventually they stopped complaining, and I stopped having to "condescend" to them .

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 18, 2011
at 08:09 PM

Pretending to do Paleo is fine. 80/20 is ok. 60/40 is ok. 10/90 is better than my parents did, who ended up in an Alzheimers ward. Both at the same time. They shared the same room! Why? They ate the same shit for thirty years! I said the same thing to them when they complained about things. Eat better, stop poisoning yourself.

16
D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on December 18, 2011
at 02:04 PM

I never got the memo that it is a requirement to fast if you "doing Paleo". I'm so distraught now knowing that I've been doing it "wrong" for so long. Commence existential crisis...

I also missed the well known Paleo concept of the coffee fast. Are you a descendent of Juan Valdez?

If you believe in the benefits of fasting, that's wonderful. I certainly do and practice it whenever I can. But to present this in the manner you have just makes you seem like a douche. Being a douche is not Paleo.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on December 18, 2011
at 02:19 PM

Arabica beans are totally Paleo!!!

6714718e2245e5190017d643a7614157

on December 18, 2011
at 02:18 PM

+1 For Juan Valdez reference. ;-)

Medium avatar

(19479)

on December 18, 2011
at 03:23 PM

I am Juan Valdez, and I (and my donkey) approve this message.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 18, 2011
at 06:17 PM

I agree. There are some plausible points buried in that question, but the presentation destroys them.

15
98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

on December 18, 2011
at 04:43 AM

I have to disagree with your assertion that anyone not fasting is not "doing paleo". Paleo does not dictate one partake of fasting. Maybe your version of paleo does but mine certainly does not. Yes it can be an effective tool for some but it's not for everyone and I think we need to let that be o.k. It's great that you seem to have found something that works well for you and I think if anyone is inclined to give it a try that's a great thing but it's really not for everyone especially those just starting out I think. The switch from SAD to paleo can be difficult enough and I don't think taking on fasting is necessary or even warranted for beginners. There are some conditions that preclude fasting. Then for some they just do better eating small meals throughout the day. Not because they read it in Men's Health Magazine but because their body likes it. Everyone needs to find their own way and those who choose not to fast as just as paleo as those who choose not to IMO.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on December 18, 2011
at 04:18 PM

Pygeum bark can be therapeutic, but the dose has to be correct.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on December 18, 2011
at 04:53 AM

The act of Fasting may not be one of the 'foods' eatable on the 'Paleo Diet' but it most certainly IS Paleo, it most certainly was something that Billions of our Paleolithic ancestors did as certain as they consumed animals and I never recommended it to Paleo beginners but now that I think about it Paleo beginners should probably incorporate a 24 hour fast as soon as possible in their quest for a healthy lifestyle change.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 18, 2011
at 04:07 PM

Not you specifically. And as I said (again) the issue is with people who are complaining they are not getting the results they wanted despite doing full paleo. They are the ones claiming that there is a defined paleo they can achieve. I've nothing against the idea that no-one is really living paleolithically, but there's some identifiable elements of that life which are disregarded without good reason. So if not fasting isn't working for them, perhaps they should consider fasting. What's wrong with that?

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on December 18, 2011
at 09:04 PM

Well again the OP's position is that if you're not fasting you're not paleo which is complete bs. Yes he ruined a perfectly defensible idea by playing paleo police. I really don't think people need to even consider fasting until they have their paleo food at a certain comfort level. We can't insist people put down the ding dongs AND go a day without eating right out of the gate. That's not good. It's just too much. As far as I'm concerned they never have to consider if it they don't want to for whatever reason and NO ONE gets to dictate to anyone that they are "doing it" wrong.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 18, 2011
at 10:53 AM

I think Bill's point was that some people believe they're doing paleo as 'pure' as possible and are worried they still don't get the results they want. And if there's aspects of the lifestyle they're missing (and many people think meal frequency is as significant as food type) then they ought to at least trying it before dismissing it. When I hear people say they can't do fasting, it's the same voice that says "I could never give up bread". I'm pretty sure people who choose bread works for them will be considered just as paleo by some soon.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on December 18, 2011
at 01:22 PM

I would still disagree with that Andy. What is this perfect paleo "pure" bs? You guys all need to lighten up. And if people want to dismiss something before trying that is there prerogative. This attitude that there is only one way to do paleo and if you don't join in on the latest whatever you are doing it right is just plain bs.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on December 18, 2011
at 05:36 AM

And once again I must disagree with you. I didn't say fasting wasn't "paleo". You said people who choose not to fast are not. Big difference! While the practice of fasting certainly falls within the parameters of paleo-like behaviors it is not required of anyone who chooses to follow a paleo way of eating. You have a very narrow definition which, again, appears to work for you. But what works for you or anyone else may not work for others. You need to lighten up on others who choose a different path. Judgment is not really all that paleo it seems to me.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 18, 2011
at 06:14 PM

I agree with you both. (1) You can certainly do Paleo without fasting. (2) The way Bill expressed himself made a possibly defensible position condescending, overgeneral, and wrong. However (3) The position that fasting was almost certainly an important health component of paleo diets is a compelling one (tangentially I even hypothesize it may be the reason Kitavans and Tarahumara can tolerate HC -- they get enough ketosis through some form of fasting) and (4) if you buy that fasting is an important practice that people should at least try, then most excuses not to *try* are kind of lame.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on December 18, 2011
at 03:55 PM

Andy that is not what I said and you know it. MY SAD diet? Intellectually bankrupt? Are you serious? That paleo stick that's up your ass has got to hurt.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 18, 2011
at 03:48 PM

As I said, there's plenty of people here who would celebrate your right to define your SAD diet as paleo, because paleo means whatever you think works best for you, even if you haven't tried any alternatives. It's intellectually bankrupt.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on December 18, 2011
at 03:29 PM

Our paleo ancestors were infested with ecto-parasites. If you are not covered in lice, ticks, and fleas and think that you are doing pure paleo, you are not. Ecto-parasites aid in weight loss and grooming is a great way to bond with your mate. Plus, they are high in essential protein.

11
531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

on December 18, 2011
at 04:27 PM

I skip breakfast because I like to lounge around and drink coffee in the a.m. Does this count for anything or must I also express utter disdain for breakfast, the food pyramid, paleo poseurs, fat people, etc? I propose that we send those with impure motives to paleo boot camp for retraining...they are a pestilence upon the tribe...

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on December 18, 2011
at 05:30 PM

The more disdain you express, the healthier you become. Disdain in what keeps human groups thriving. It's what our ancestors did, ya know.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on December 18, 2011
at 05:08 PM

You can score even more points if you repeatedly announce how much superhuman discipline, endurance, and manliness you possess. Self-regard pairs so well with contempt for others, don't you think?

4
Medium avatar

on December 18, 2011
at 06:13 AM

I hope you don't mind that I read only your title and breezed past your actual presentation and question, along with skipping everyone's response.

I most wanted to respond to a particular phrase in your title: food related problems. Immediately I realized that I am, at present, fasting for food related solutions.

I am grateful to be where I am. Grateful to find the experience of "skipping breakfast" an adventure in designing my best life and acting to make it real. And creating the physique I want to have, rather than defeating the one(s) I don't. Pleased not to be caught up with what so many IF descriptions sound like to me: anxious penance, of the sort that some find to be pleasing to their God. "If I sacrifice the pleasures of eating, then will I be worthy?"

I know for myself that this mindset does not drive all fasting experiments.Not having read your response, I certainly wish you the best in steering clear of scenario 2, and getting to a good place with respect to the idea and practice of fasting in your life.

3
Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on December 18, 2011
at 09:56 PM

Well Bill... I don't understand your approach here. Your "question" is somewhat of a disaster in its delivery. But you've certainly managed to rile the troops. For that, well done.

As for the topic at hand, I think many can eat Paleo and be successful in their endeavors for good health, sans fasting.

3
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:03 PM

Fasting was the key for me in losing my last few pounds.

It wasn't until I broke through my psychological barrier and allowed myself to be hungry--to feel the ghrelin kick in and know I wasn't going to die if I skipped a meal or two--that I started feeling more freedom around food.

The Lean Saloon was essential to this process.

I now have much more body knowledge of when I am truly hungry & am no longer needing to eat from habit, duty, cultural expectation or emotional distress.

For a former hypoglycemic, the ability to easily fast for 21 hours is a miracle!

I certainly don't recommend it for everyone, but it worked for me.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:42 PM

Ghrelin kicks in regardless of whether you fast or not...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 19, 2011
at 12:24 AM

Amen. As a former 7 meal a-day, adrenal damaged guy, I never imagined a two meal day. Very relaxing ..You were the first to defend this question. I mustered "courage"from your Rosa Parke-esque position,and assumed my PCLU position. I enjoyed the afternoon doing so, before , during and after the Patriots-Broncos game watching Bellichick's Paleo Patriots aginst Tebow's Creationist Broncos. Good times.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on December 18, 2011
at 08:21 PM

For sure, but most folk feel it's effects and think they *need* to eat. My point is that I can feel hungry and it's really OK not to eat, unless I want to. (I would never voluntarily fast more than 36 hours, just in case someone is wondering!)

3
B9637ddb9a9a5c6a7306e3c804fcd21d

(3217)

on December 18, 2011
at 06:29 PM

It's not that black & white, I'm afraid, Bill.

Don't get me wrong, I'm into fasting. I'm not a slave to regimented mealtimes, I follow my hunger, and I do the occasional 24 hr fast; I like the occasional bit of fasted training (envisioning a wild boar running away from you; hunger really makes you sprint faster!) For me, fasting does make me more alert and active. I actually rarely have lunch because I focus better when I'm hungry.

True, IF, alternative periods of 'feasting' and 'fasting', sporadic but highly nutritious meals, emulates the way our ancestors ate. Especially those living in particularly harsh environmental conditions with drastic climate swings. However, to say that not fasting is not paleo is inaccurate.

Firstly, from a purely evolutionary standpoint, we do not owe evolution to fasting but to the nutrition. Besides, some hunter-gatherer groups (in more fertile lands, nearer the equator) may have had more continuous food supply. Sure thing, I'm sure they didn't have rules to have 6 small meals a day or 3 at exact times. But say our hypothetical hunter-gatherer group had constant food supply (animals, plants), would they be overweight, just because they didn't plan a 24-hour fast every tuesday? No, because of the absence of industrial foods and of the sugar cult which is what brings disease and obesity; they didn't get brain-raped by advertisements of special K and mystery meat monster burgers; they ate a natural diet, on which you wouldn't have to count calories because it is self-regulating.

When you eat paleo, your hormones calm down from all the carbo-yo-yoing theyve been doing, and you naturally tend to regulate and adjust your mealtimes to your hunger signals. If you're eating highly nutrient-dense food, 'fasting' (skipping a meal because you're not hungry) comes naturally.

Now, planning fasts and fasting 24 hours for the health benefits (autophagy, hormesis, reduced inflammation, digestive cleansing, immunity boosting, etc) is great, and can indeed help break a weight-loss plateau, but it isn't absolutely necessary. Also, this sort of planned fasting isn't for everyone, see Mark talk about that here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-matcha-tea-runners-high-stress-and-weight-gain-and-fasting-for-teens/#axzz1gocB8Bpt http://www.marksdailyapple.com/who-should-and-shouldnt-try-fasting/#axzz1gocB8Bpt

If you're not ready for planned IF, save the benefits for later. Fasting isn't an absolute requirement; but when you eat Paleo you will naturally move away from the 6 meals a day model, and probably skip the occasional meal. IF purists may not call it 'fasting' but you're still getting some of the benefits, and fine-tuning your hunger-satiety signal processing as well.

Lots of Paleo love,

Milla.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:03 PM

Also, you say "When you eat paleo, your hormones calm down from all the carbo-yo-yoing theyve been doing", but this is only true for LC paleo. There are plenty of people here who eating high carb or irregular carb levels.

B9637ddb9a9a5c6a7306e3c804fcd21d

(3217)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:25 PM

Ambimorph - about the carbs - even if you eat paleo-approved starches like tubers, your carbs would still fall very short of the SAD level, wouldn't they? I mean, I don't think you would get the sugar high/crash vicious circle even on higher carb paleo. That said, people with metabolic disorders usually go LC at the beginning.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on December 18, 2011
at 06:48 PM

Right, Mark states that your not ready to fast, if your not actually doing Paleo/Primal until you 'get your ducks in a row'. This was exactly my point of writing this, that someone who is/has been doing perfect paleo should imo and Marks, incorporate fasting for the numerous benefits that often alleviate many problems people are having.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:02 PM

I agree with almost all of your answer. I don't feel so certain about the statement "we do not owe evolution to fasting but to the nutrition", because I wonder how much the healthfulness of fasting actually did play a role in fitness for selective advantage.

B9637ddb9a9a5c6a7306e3c804fcd21d

(3217)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:28 PM

Bill - I agree with you, and Mark, that only properly fat-adapted people should go for IF. But, what I wanted to stress with the link, is that he also mentions that if you're in a lot of stress, or if you're a teen, perhaps its best to put it off. Also, some people just don't work well with it, its a personal thing.

B9637ddb9a9a5c6a7306e3c804fcd21d

(3217)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:21 PM

Ambimorph - undoubtedly, fasting played a role, but I think that generally applies to anything stimulating hormesis - acute stressors, like periods of scarcity, occasional harsh climate. I think it also played a role in selection in the sense that only the strongest survived periods of scarcity/harshness. That sentence did come out a bit one-sided now I re-read. Though, I don't know if this means those exposed to scarcity would be healthier than peoples in more forgiving environments? It's interesting.

3
Bad3a78e228c67a7513c28f17c36b3cf

(1387)

on December 18, 2011
at 01:07 PM

I was doing the 16/8 skip breakfast regularly for about 6 months. My schedule has changed, so I now only do it 3 or 4 times a week. My motivation was to aid ketosis for migraine relief. I don't know if it was the fasting or other changes I made, but headaches are way down. I have also tried 36 hour fasts on three separate occasions. These did not make me feel good.

3
66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:54 AM

I do an irregular IF,I just skip meala(s) when my body tells me to & I eat when my body needs to.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:03 PM

I do the same, and I settle into a rhythm of 4-5 meals a day. Tried IF for a year with poor results. So I agree with you, disagree strongly with the OP.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on December 18, 2011
at 02:40 PM

Yup, that's pretty much how I do it too.

3
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 18, 2011
at 05:01 AM

I don't think we can know for sure that fasting was regularly done by ancient humans. Even in drought or famine they may have been gnawing on different things to see if they were edible. When plant or animal food was available, I'd bet many groups foraged in a way that there was usually food around. Not Twinkies, for sure, but dried/leftover meat or caches of tubers and fruits.

Hunters probably carried food stores with them to keep up their energy on long hunts if food was scarce. Older women probably knew the tricks of foraging when times were tough.

I myself happily IF in a variable pattern with a limited food window each day and I thrive on it. If I'm busy and it gets late I just skip it until the next day. It works for me, but that doesn't mean everyone should or most people always did. It simply means that some of us like it.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 18, 2011
at 06:13 PM

@AndyM, I'm not feeling any desperation. I just think people in some locales would've been forced into feast/famine cycles and people in others would have plentiful food options for long periods. So, it's okay to do what works best for you (in timing and size of meals) without trying to push everyone into one mold.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 18, 2011
at 10:59 AM

Eating 3 meals a day though is a relatively recent cultural construct, and even then only in some countries. It depends a bit on definition, but even your suppositions on the HGs suggests that there was variability to when, what and how much they ate from day to day.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 18, 2011
at 05:33 PM

Yes, given the way so many of us enjoy IF I believe there was variability. I just don't think you HAVE to IF to consider yourself "paleo."

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 18, 2011
at 05:39 PM

Well that's all a matter of definition isn't it? I think there's a certain kind of almost desperation in the way some people try to redefine paleo to keep it inclusive. If something doesn't work for someone then we are afraid to say paleo doesn't work or accuse them of doing it wrong, so we instead broaden the definition to the point where it loses meaning. It would seem the bet thing would be for everyone to acknowledge they are only ever doing partial paleo to avoid this whole thing.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 18, 2011
at 07:21 PM

I agree with you Ambimorph, since I employ IF nearly every day. But I don't think you have to IF to consider yourself an ancestral eater. That's the only point I was trying to make in my answer.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 18, 2011
at 06:54 PM

Of course we can't be sure, but the idea that some fasting didn't happen fairly commonly seems implausible to me.

1
Medium avatar

on December 18, 2011
at 10:25 PM

Jon is absolutely right about who shouldn't fast, I would add people with adrenal problems to the list as well. Diabetics should be on a ketotic diet which has similar effects on the body as fasting but is easier on the body while providing it with the fuel it needs. Fasting once in a while is important, but to me what's more important is one's daily diet. The healthiest cultures in the world don't focus on fasting, but rather caloric restriction, or not eating until they're hungry and then only eating til they're full. There are studies showing the links between longevity and caloric restriction and it's one of the main reasons why Americans are always sick, we have too much of everything and eat too much of everything. It's also about lifestyle, because if you are doing rewarding things and have rewarding relationships in your life, you don't feel the need to stimulate your brain's reward pathway as much with food and are at peace. This is as much a cultural problem as it is a nutritional/health problem because the cultures that value people more than material things have more meaning and reward in their lives and this impacts their relationship with food. So it's not just how much or how often we eat but the quality of our food and what we're doing in our lives.

1
6cca02352c216b4ca8325fda7d83832c

(1042)

on December 18, 2011
at 08:57 PM

Although I completely understand and agree with the intentions and facts presented in this question, you state your arguments for fasting in absolute terms with no qualifications, which works 0% of the time when it comes to human health and human behavior of any type. The only absolute prescription one can make to advance humanity's health and longevity is to avoid the neolithic conditions of disease, namely - refined carbs, processed vegetable oils, most grains, especially ones containing gluten, excess stress, disordered circadian rhythms, lack of physical activity, etc.

Although fasting is very beneficial to most people's health and I think it is very underrated in the Paleo community and more people should be doing it, there are certain populations of people that should rarely or never fast: growing children, pregnant women, athletes, people with either type of diabetes, and there are probably a few more that I am not aware of. For these populations it would generally do more harm than good to fast regularly and/or for extended periods.

Personally I live well below the poverty line and have been eating only one meal per day lately, and I actually feel better in some ways than when I was eating 3 meals a day, especially mentally, so I can attest to the statements about fasting having antidepressant effects. Therefore your reasoning and evidence in favor of fasting is spot on and is a message many more people need to hear, in the Paleo community or not. Fasting has changed my relationship with food in a way that is unique and superior to the change produced by adopting a Paleo diet.

However the bigger question for countries like America is how do those of us in the know (like most of us here at PH) confer this message to the general public? In my opinion we need to focus on that before advising people who already eat healthy to fast. For the vast majority of people following a Paleo diet and lifestyle, fasting should come naturally, and if it doesn't, they probably aren't adhering to the principles behind it anyway. To sum up, we in the Paleo community need to find ways of educating people in countries like America about how to have a healthier relationship with food, and that includes both food source, quality, quantity, and fasting. All of these components of diet need to change drastically in most developed nations, and they are all inextricably linked to one another, so it is hard if not impossible to argue in favor of one of them like fasting being most important.

6cca02352c216b4ca8325fda7d83832c

(1042)

on December 18, 2011
at 09:59 PM

@shah78 you are correct, I intended no offense at all toward Bill and was agreeing with the essence of his post. When I said qualifications, I meant "a condition that modifies or limits; restriction", not the definition Bill interpreted the word as meaning - "an ability, quality, or attribute, esp one that fits a person to perform a particular job or task". Personally I don't think it matters what your professional qualifications are if your statements are based on sound logic and evidence, which they are for the most part.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 18, 2011
at 09:36 PM

Bill, as you PCLU(PaleoCivilLibertiesUnion) lawyer on this question, I can find no offense to you in Jon"s answer. I was just about to ask him if he was for , or against yourquestion. I couldn't and still can't decide. There's a hell of a lot more venom directed toward you from others. No?

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on December 18, 2011
at 09:16 PM

First off, you do not know me, so you do not know my qualifications, which are many. Second, what I do for a living is create workouts and meal plans for a VERY large fee and I am EXTREMELY successful at it both from a business standpoint and from an absolute results standpoint. 3rd: You make those statements in your first paragraph then spout bullshit in your second:"never fast: growing children, pregnant women, athletes, people with either type of diabetes" REALLY? Athletes and TypeII diabetics shouldnt fast?!?! Did santa claus tell you that?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on December 18, 2011
at 09:10 PM

excellent answer...... Do you need a part time job? I need a reseacher/computer guy.

6cca02352c216b4ca8325fda7d83832c

(1042)

on December 18, 2011
at 10:42 PM

About the job, I am assuming it involves telecommuting? Actually my brother needs a job more than I do right now because I have some good leads but he doesn't, although we both have plenty of experience with research and computers. My contact info is on my profile page.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on December 18, 2011
at 09:21 PM

Im just beside myself that anyone would come on here, slam what I had to say, agree with what I said AND make 100% UNQUALIFIED and FALSE statements all in one post.

1
Cfa2637d1b6ec288d32379de06415792

on December 18, 2011
at 11:02 AM

I would very much like to IF more frequently. Eating paleo I don't feel hungry so often and I like to IF. The problem is, I am having circulation problems and it is currently -3 outside, so I think I better not, unfortunately :(

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 18, 2011
at 11:12 AM

Have you noticed a particular effect on your circulation when fasting?

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 18, 2011
at 05:37 PM

Take your time! It took weeks if not months for me to notice that meal time would come but I didn't need to eat yet. I just waited and, when I did eat, I made sure I ate a complete meal that would last a while. Over time, I got more and more comfortable with not eating for long stretches but I never forced it.

Cfa2637d1b6ec288d32379de06415792

(235)

on December 18, 2011
at 04:30 PM

My heart beats really fast and my legs get a bit more swollen than normal. I still haven't tried long enough, but I think since I introduced more bananas and coconut milk to my diet, I have had a slight improvement and could stay fasted longer without much trouble.

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