2

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Any Muslim/Jain/Zoroastrian/Kabbala/Etc Paleos out there?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created December 16, 2010 at 7:17 PM

I am interested in what your religion's ancient prophet says about food, diet, and low carb eating. I predict that it aligns very nicely to Paleo because modern foods weren't around back then. What do you say?

This is an honest question. I can't stand it when Christianity is given special status as a legitimate topic, when the plethora of other world religions are considered cultish. I do not believe in any of them, but would be interested in what their textbooks say. Why? Because it could give a hint as to how diets developed in different regions of the world, and how our bronze-age ancestors lived!

Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on October 02, 2011
at 03:49 PM

@Geoff. Kosher meat can, and in certain places often is, organic and kosher. Part of the point of kosher is how the animal is treated. Even when it is bleeding, if done properly, the animal should not feel pain (or better yet, be dead instantly). That said, Melissa is right. There is debate in the Jewish community about this, especially as people reconsider certain rabbinic decisions. As for me, I refer to Genesis (Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel) if I want to make biblical arguments for paleo living.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 18, 2010
at 05:41 AM

Not tangential at all! I bet Jared Diamond would have an interesting way to tie this all together, but he's not on paleohacks.

95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on December 17, 2010
at 10:56 PM

Asceticism, austerity, denial of earthly pleasures, fasting and to some a lesser extent martyrdom are a big part of all these monastic traditions and are seen a path to salvation/transformation/enlightenment. Some native people have also used seasonal fasts as a way to remind their bodies to be thankful for Earth's bounty which is way different than some of those traditions, though.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 16, 2010
at 10:26 PM

There is a lot of arguing going on right now in the Jewish community about kosher. Some do believe it means traditionally raised and carefully slaughtered animals, not factory animals. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjcarrot.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Ffftmeat2.pdf&rct=j&q=Baal%20Shem%20Tov%20butcher%20whet%20tears&ei=HJIKTbuxF8P58Aaw7ISyAw&usg=AFQjCNHKVZVopvffk7717yLWDMIMkOlj-w&sig2=q16Uw004WkYJat4OS3hsLg&cad=rja

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:36 PM

@Kamal, that's tough for those in Jainism. Sounds like they could use this documentary. On this "farm" since grain is not grown the ground in not tilled and thus is alive and no animals die. He also used a plant and insect to balance eachother out so no pesticides. This 100% organic farm yields 4 times the amount of food per acre of a conventional farm and only takes 10 days of labor a year to maintain. They can eat their food and live! :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09Ez5ViYKYA&feature=related

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:21 PM

@Kamal - Fox News! LOL!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:12 PM

On a more serious note, it is amazing to see that we paleos all question conventional wisdom so thoroughly, and then some still look to neolithic sacred texts for diet confirmation.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:08 PM

Eh...you caught me :) Fair and balanced coverage of religion+paleo, just like Fox News.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:08 PM

I'm not sure whether I should smirk or laugh. But I *am* interested in the answers if anyone's got them!

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:02 PM

Butchering the meat to be Kosher just means that the animal had it's neck cut open to make it bleed to death. To the best of my knowledge Kosher meat does NOT mean organic or grass fed

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:00 PM

So you basically just asked this question to counter the question about Christian paleos?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:55 PM

I think eating according to religion disqualifies anybody from being true paleos. Jesus, Mohammad, and Zoroaster were not experts at analyzing fossil records for clues to eating patterns. (although...god could have just told them that gluten was bad and to strike wheat from their texts. what's up with that omission, god?)

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:46 PM

My understanding of Jains was that they are strict vegetarians but some allow dairy. Doesnt that disqualify any jains from being true paleos?

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:43 PM

Muslims (halal) and Jews (kosher) do have strict dietary laws, but they both eat plenty of meat and in theory their meat should be raised (and slaughtered) properly. Most of the Muslims I know buy their meat from a pasture based farmer who have a Muslim ranch hands and butchers that can declare the meat halal.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:38 PM

I think that's mostly accurate, but the Buddhist part is contentious: "Buddhism, along with Jainism, recognizes that even eating vegetables could contribute to the indirect killing of living beings because animal life is destroyed by tilling the soil or the use of pesticides. Jainism consequently considers death by starvation (only after undergoing 12 years of strict asceticism) as the ultimate practice of non-violence, while Buddhism considers extreme self-mortification to be undesirable for attaining enlightenment."

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8 Answers

6
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 16, 2010
at 10:27 PM

Here is a story about the founder of Hasidic Judaism:

After the Ba???al Shem Tov passed, a new shochet took his place. He was well-learned in all the laws and followed them scrupulously. He sharpened his knife, knew just where to hold the neck, how to make the cut. He noticed, though, that a man would watch him as he slaughtered the chickens, and shake his head in disapproval. After several days, he asked the man what he was doing wrong. ???I wet the blade, I sharpen it, I make the smallest, quickest cut, just as I learned from the Ba???al Shem Tov. What am I doing that???s upsetting you???? The man, who remembered watching the Ba???al Shem Tov prepare for and slaughter animals, shook his head. ???It is true, you wet the blade and sharpen it. But where you use water to sharpen your blade, the Ba???al Shem Tov used his own tears.???

5
15e684f6f716f88c99f641098a6e06ca

(922)

on December 17, 2010
at 05:24 AM

Hey, this year at hanukkah I had my mom fry a batch of latkes using coconut oil. Just about everyone else ate the regular toxic vegetable oil kind. But at least I tried.

3
710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 07:35 PM

yep. most (I'm tempted to say all, but not positive) major world religions develop during when population density ramps up so you get all sorts of neat stuff like trade and class specializations (i.e. merchants, priests, soldiers, scholars). Checkout guns, germs and steel--great read in general. So it definitely makes sense that most world religions will endorse/codify the food-culture that they emerge in (think about the infrastructure that needs to be in place to produce the bread and wine of the christian sacrament). IMHO the codification of scientific/behavioral beliefs are when religions start to get involved in stuff that they are systematically bad at (opposed to helping the individual re-relate to his finite life, the group and the world/universe--whatever though).

This is wildly off topic, but possibly interesting:

What is the relationship (scientifically speaking) between diet and spiritual practices?? Why is it that in pretty much every monastic setting where intense spiritual exercises are engaged in (sleep deprivation, intensive meditation, prayer, physical exertions like prostration) fasting and some form of vegan/vegetarianism tend to show up? And not just in major world religions, but I know fasting plays a pretty big role before/during hallucinogenic vision ceremonies of alot of indigenous peoples (plus the famous and probably misunderstood 'vision' quests in alot of north american indian tribes)

I mean it could just be that a lot of these practices developed in hermetical environments where it wasn't feasible to, say, tend to and slaughter livestock.

Apologies for this tangent, I'll admit it's eminently flaggable. Patrik please dont kill me.

K thx -_-.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 18, 2010
at 05:41 AM

Not tangential at all! I bet Jared Diamond would have an interesting way to tie this all together, but he's not on paleohacks.

95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on December 17, 2010
at 10:56 PM

Asceticism, austerity, denial of earthly pleasures, fasting and to some a lesser extent martyrdom are a big part of all these monastic traditions and are seen a path to salvation/transformation/enlightenment. Some native people have also used seasonal fasts as a way to remind their bodies to be thankful for Earth's bounty which is way different than some of those traditions, though.

3
Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

on December 17, 2010
at 02:28 AM

All major religions develop at pastoralists or farmers societies, and no wonder, they typically prescribe eating in the way that was prevalent in their own culture. Religious restrictions could affect pork (Judaism and Muslims), alcohol (Muslims) but agriculture is never opposed (with the obvious exception of holy days like Shabbath,etc). For Zoroastrians, agriculture was highly encouraged.

2
8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

on December 01, 2011
at 01:06 AM

The hubby and I are Hindu, and eat all types of pastured meat, seafood, eggs, and dairy.

excepts from a Swami: http://naturalhygienesociety.org/articles/swami_narayanananda.html

Ancient Indian sages were non-vegetarian and offered even beef to the gods.

...bulls, calves and barren cows were allowed to be killed and eaten. Instances from the Vedas support this statement. Yajur Veda, Satpath Brahmana, Brihatarunyaka Upanishad, Adhyaya 6th, 4th Brahmana, 18th verse runs thus: ??? "He who wishes for the birth of such a son as would be a reputed scholar, frequenting the assemblies and speaking delightful words, and as would study all the four Vedas and attain the full term of life, should have rice cooked with the meat of a vigorous bull or one more advanced in years and he and his wife should eat it with clarified butter. Then he would be able to beget such a son." Even the old meat-eating habits of the people are still to be found in many parts of India, where the Brahmins and 'the other three castes take fish and meat freely, as in Bengal, Assam, Orissa, Kashmir and parts of Bihar and Uttar Pradesh.

Manu, Rama, Krishna, Buddha, Mahavira, Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Nanak, Leotose, Sinto and RamaKrishna were all non-vegetarians. If religion forbids fish and meat-eating as sin and limits its followers to vegetable diet alone, were these great. men, non-religious ?

We must take into consideration the time, clime, constitutional agreement and local availability. Nature has Her own plan concerning this. Necessity is the mother of invention. In all these cases, if the people are to live, they must utilize the easily available articles of food and drink in their region. The food chosen should be sweet, pleasant, simple, nutritious and easily digestible.

2
B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:33 PM

Don't Muslims and Jews (Kabbala) have strict food laws? I know Judaism uses bread as part of religious ceramony. The idea that something is good by comparing it to Milk and Honey is mentioned in both the Koran and Torah I believe. The first of the Five Precepts in Buddhism is to not kill any setinent being. This includes all animals and even insects so Buddhists are supposed to be close to Vegan (no garlic or onions allowed either.)

btw, I'm always on this website on my cellphone so sorry about spelling and sentance structure.

Edit: I was wrong The Buddha ate meat

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:38 PM

I think that's mostly accurate, but the Buddhist part is contentious: "Buddhism, along with Jainism, recognizes that even eating vegetables could contribute to the indirect killing of living beings because animal life is destroyed by tilling the soil or the use of pesticides. Jainism consequently considers death by starvation (only after undergoing 12 years of strict asceticism) as the ultimate practice of non-violence, while Buddhism considers extreme self-mortification to be undesirable for attaining enlightenment."

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 16, 2010
at 10:26 PM

There is a lot of arguing going on right now in the Jewish community about kosher. Some do believe it means traditionally raised and carefully slaughtered animals, not factory animals. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjcarrot.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Ffftmeat2.pdf&rct=j&q=Baal%20Shem%20Tov%20butcher%20whet%20tears&ei=HJIKTbuxF8P58Aaw7ISyAw&usg=AFQjCNHKVZVopvffk7717yLWDMIMkOlj-w&sig2=q16Uw004WkYJat4OS3hsLg&cad=rja

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:36 PM

@Kamal, that's tough for those in Jainism. Sounds like they could use this documentary. On this "farm" since grain is not grown the ground in not tilled and thus is alive and no animals die. He also used a plant and insect to balance eachother out so no pesticides. This 100% organic farm yields 4 times the amount of food per acre of a conventional farm and only takes 10 days of labor a year to maintain. They can eat their food and live! :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09Ez5ViYKYA&feature=related

F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

(826)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:43 PM

Muslims (halal) and Jews (kosher) do have strict dietary laws, but they both eat plenty of meat and in theory their meat should be raised (and slaughtered) properly. Most of the Muslims I know buy their meat from a pasture based farmer who have a Muslim ranch hands and butchers that can declare the meat halal.

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:02 PM

Butchering the meat to be Kosher just means that the animal had it's neck cut open to make it bleed to death. To the best of my knowledge Kosher meat does NOT mean organic or grass fed

Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on October 02, 2011
at 03:49 PM

@Geoff. Kosher meat can, and in certain places often is, organic and kosher. Part of the point of kosher is how the animal is treated. Even when it is bleeding, if done properly, the animal should not feel pain (or better yet, be dead instantly). That said, Melissa is right. There is debate in the Jewish community about this, especially as people reconsider certain rabbinic decisions. As for me, I refer to Genesis (Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel) if I want to make biblical arguments for paleo living.

1
C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on December 01, 2011
at 01:47 AM

Kaballah is not a mainstream aspect of Judaism. Its something that you should only study if you are 40 and have studied all of the Talmud and Torah.

0
165202196ea111b32114ef2804a7dd94

on October 02, 2012
at 02:18 AM

Islam: The most repetitive food/drink in the Quran is water. "We have made every living thing out of water." (Sura 21 The Prophets, ayat 30). (many other verses, (if you're curious google -mentions of water in Quran-)

In islam, the meat should be halal, which generally means that they shld be raised and treated well (as nature intended), and they shld be slaughtered in the fastest/least painful way, and the animal has to bleed out. But nowadays many meat industries have a cheap "halal" section which is not very close to the true halal-ness. Also the kuran mentions the importance of figs, olives, onions, garlic, pomegranate, cow meat, lamb, grapes, dates, water... I don't remember what else.

“O mankind! Eat of that which is lawful and good on the earth.” [The Quran, 2:168] <- so GMOs are basically not allowed.

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