1

votes

already small, but building muscle without the carb intake ++

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created April 27, 2012 at 8:38 PM

what's everyone's take on this? a lot of body builders say that carbs are important for muscle building, but how does this play into a paleo diet? i'm a 24 female 5'4 @ 116 lbs wanting to lean out (some fat in tummy.. would eventually like abs, but i doubt my genetics will let me). i'm implementing some heavy lifting with a paleo diet -- what's everyone's experience with this combo? any input? tHANKS!

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 28, 2012
at 02:38 PM

this sounds kinda TMI or gross, but i can literally just grab the subcutaneous fat -- it's probably like 2 inches worth or fat?? right underneath, i can feel my lower abdomen muscles though... so it's def just subcut. fat.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 28, 2012
at 02:37 PM

@sunnybeaches, hey! i'm not even sure if my genetics will allow my to develop abs. i def still have some subcutaneous lower belly fat, but everywhere else i'm lean. i think some of this was from cortisol-fat storage....do you or anyone else have any input to help out with this?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 28, 2012
at 11:58 AM

Yeah saying in no time is a bit far fetched but I was trying to be positive. and given her height and bw, and from the transformations I've seen, it seems very doable. eating veggies and meat and and fruit around workouts is pretty much fool proof.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 28, 2012
at 11:07 AM

This is not for the basillionth time and what should I have done? Withheld my advice? I'm offering a solution she doesn't have to follow it.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 28, 2012
at 11:06 AM

I don't know why I said that, its nitpicking. Maybe I'm just getting into high-carb dogma. My point was probably that you shouldn't say "you'll have this in no time if you do this", because you just don't know.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 28, 2012
at 11:02 AM

okay. So instead I should have said what?

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on April 28, 2012
at 10:39 AM

with regards to reps, do you think low reps helps with (promotes?) muscle hypertrophy or muscle hyperplasia, may be a bit of each, or may be unknown. just did a bit of googling but could not find much in the way of studies on the subject

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on April 28, 2012
at 10:38 AM

with regards to reps, do you think low reps helps with (is good for?) muscle hypertrophy or muscle hyperplasia, may be a bit of each, or may be unknown. just did a bit of googling but could not find much in the way of studies on the subject

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on April 28, 2012
at 10:37 AM

with regards to reps, do you think low reps helps with (is good for?) muscle hypertrophy or muscle hyperplasia, may be a bit of each, or may be unknown. just did a bit of googling but could find much in the way of studies on the subject.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 28, 2012
at 10:34 AM

You obviously never saw the effect of hormones, Sunny Beaches ;). People can change. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't believe you're right either.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on April 28, 2012
at 09:45 AM

Right, because carbs cause inflammation. Cmon now.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 28, 2012
at 08:21 AM

@Korion, nobody is denying that weight can be controlled. It's just the idea that you can have "any body you want" despite genetics. The OP is talking about seeing abs, not complaining about weight. It's referring to muscular build, potential, etc. I am never going to be a linebacker, no matter what I do. My body will never do that. Truth. Women, because of genetics, have greater difficulty obtaining visible abs because of biology and less testosterone, and nothing can change the hormonal differences (unless you're talking about external sources like pills).

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 28, 2012
at 08:02 AM

For the bazillionth time, don't generalize your anecdotes. You can use anecdotes to prove something wrong, but you can't use it to prove something right...

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 28, 2012
at 08:01 AM

Genetics play a role, but they're hardly an excuse. I've seen some very muscular sons of fat parents.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 28, 2012
at 03:05 AM

@foreveryoung, thanks for the advice! didn't think about the omega-6... i hope it won't impede my fat loss too much? chicken breasts are just so plain tasting to me. how is chicken skin different (or worse) from eating like bacon? i thought you paleo people *love* bacon. haha and i'm doing a 4 day split - my leg days do include major lifts like squats and such.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 11:46 PM

...I'm excited for you with all this good advice you're getting here. lol

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 11:45 PM

also, with your lifting, I'd lift 3 days per week and not just two. Include the big lifts like deadlifts, squats, benches, push press, and chin ups (eventually you'll be able to do em weighted if you keep at it). Make sure you're doing standard deadlifts AND stiff leg deadlifts too. The stiff leg will do wonders for your figure. on top of that do HIIT 2x per week. You are golden.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 11:40 PM

As a matter of personal preference I do not eat the skin, but I eat things, breasts, and love drumsticks. It does contains loads of omega-6 fats though, so go easy on it.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 11:01 PM

i'm doing a 4 day split routine, so i'll have to experiment w/ my calories. thanks! i will listen to my hunger cues as well.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:36 PM

I've lost 150lbs while never being hungry and I've got nothing to sell! Point is - hunger is a function of your bodies desire for calories. Cravings and flavor, in the context of whole foods, are your body telling you what it needs. Listen to it. If you love your food and have no cravings you are golden. In general that range sounds like a good place to start but in practice I'd guess you will probably end up loser to 2700-3000 on lift days and 1800-2000 on non-lift days.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 10:24 PM

@sunnybeaches, i may be wrong in my wording using the term "lean out". my goal is ultimately to get rid of fat (i don't really have that much), but i would like some nice definition. i wish i could provide a BF% to be more specific, sorry guys.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 10:22 PM

i get like antibiotic and antihormone free chicken thighs and legs. no breasts.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 10:22 PM

@foreveryoung - i'm eating plenty of protein and fats (check out my reply above) does it really matter if i get lean cuts of meat? i'm eating lots of chicken, but with the skin too. i thought this was fine, or am i wrong?

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 10:19 PM

thanks you guys, all of this has been soo helpful. @likeslardinmayo -- yeah, i was thinking the bulking/cutting idea comes from too much carb intake. my macros look like this -- carb is def under 100 g/day, probably roughly 70-80g/day..then protein & fats are each of 100-140 g/day. total daily calorie intake is probably ~2000-2300 calories a day? does this sounds optimal?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:18 PM

No problemo, SB. LLM apparently knows his sh**

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:14 PM

HEy, thanks LLM.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:07 PM

Oh, Bulking and cutting really are a symptom of too much carbohydrate. You want enough to keep on track and not feel exhausted and no more. The bulk/cut thing feels like an eating disorder not an exercise regimen.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:05 PM

This thread has been helpful for me even though it's for the OP. Thanks @LikesLardinMayo and @foreveryoung

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:05 PM

@new2paleo - Don't hold back in the gym for hear of getting "too big". Female bodybuilders are taking steroids and it's really hard for a woman to get super muscular without chemical assistance. Lift heavy, lift short, and get the hell out ASAP.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:03 PM

Lumpy is exactly that. Bodybuilders drive muscle size by making the muscle as big as possible through sarcoplamic expansion, rather than the growth of new muscle fiber. If someone wants to be lean and strong they don't want to do High rep and make themselves as lumpy and bulgy as possible. You want lots of muscle fiber, not lots of glycogen.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:00 PM

I'd match HIIT to carb intake. If she generally is quite low-carb the amount of sprint work needed goes down. It's main benefit is insulin sensitivity and if you aren't driving mass gain (including fat) with insulin you can get away with a lot less. So for sub 50g I'd do 1 HIIT and very short. If they are eating yam and rice at every meal than yeah 2-4x a week sounds damn good. :

870fdea50f2a9f1cd2890c8e22549300

(2056)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:53 PM

Rebecca, if you calculate the OP's BMI you will see that is less than 20. This is not a question of "fat."

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:50 PM

Rebecca, the reason you're seeing "major fat loss and muscle building" is because you were apparently coming of a SAD diet and were not lifting heavy before. The rapid results will diminish once you get closer to what you think ideal is. Experienced lifters are very familiar with a term called "beginner gains" or "newbie gains" and their is an equivalent to fat loss as well.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:43 PM

so good. I would only add for her to do some HIIT (sprint work) on her non-lifting days 2-4x per week.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:42 PM

So good........

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:38 PM

Don't go on a bulk, ever. Just lift heavy and keep cals in check.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:36 PM

Probably longer than you want, but faster than expected. Like between 1 and 2 months, without knowing your body fat% but judging by your weight and height. Likeslardinmayo has good lifting advice. Diet too. High protein, green vegetables, and some fruit around workouts. For proteins eggs, cuts of beef/bison (80/20 or leaner), chicken, and fish. Once you've met your goal you can incorporate more foods in, obviously.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:29 PM

And the OP never said anything about her being "fat"...just wanted to lean out. Big difference. And abs for a woman is not always possible, and seeing abs is not always an indication of health and the perfect diet and exercise regime.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:27 PM

Of course genetics plays a role. Some people have bone structure that would be amazing for a swimmer but that same build would make it a great challenge to have the "perfect" ballet body, no matter their training and diet. People build muscle differently, gain weight in different places first...the difference in male and female hormones is an example that "genetics" does play a role. No two bodies are the same in bone structure, difference in fibers like foreveryoung said, and in hormone secretion.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:23 PM

I personally don't buy the dogma of bodybuilding. When you read what physical culture guys were saying around 1920 before protein supplements and the carb craze it was basically a Paleo diet and exercise to be healthy. If your goal is physique I would not do PWO shakes etc... I would just eat clean, highish protein, moderate fat and some veggies and fruit and lift 2-3 days a week. Do like 3x3 or 5x3 as heavy as you can go and give it six weeks. Then change it up in what seems like a better direction. Don't change plans too often, it takes time.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:22 PM

Rebecca you don't have a clue. For instance, some people are born with more fast twitch vs slow twitch fibers, and are genetically predisposition to be better sprinters. That is just one of many examples. You have no clue. I bet you didn't do very well in science class, did you?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:19 PM

Wow you obviously don't know what you're talking about. Genetically some people have more fast twitch vs slow twitch fibers and vice versa. People with fast twitch fibers are genetically predisposition to be better sprinters. That is just one example. Rebecca you have no clue what you're talking about.

B97bb053b69b8a1e404c226afced44a0

(132)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:14 PM

By the way - I eat VLC and am doing just fine lifting heavy and doing all the stuff I want to do - and am seeing major fat loss and muscle definition coming. Unless you're an endurance athlete, you don't need hundreds of grams of carbs a day. I eat well below 100g. 30-50g on rest days, and 50-75ish on training days. Just make sure your caloric intake is adequate to support those growing muscles.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 08:49 PM

haha, what is "no time" defined as? i'm on week 2 of a paleo diet and i see results, but i'm an inpatient person too! :-)

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 08:48 PM

oh also, what is your take on leaning out on a paleo diet - do i still need to bulk and then cut? :-( i'm not a big girl, rather not "fluff" up in the beginning if possible.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 08:47 PM

i don't know how much muscle i want to put on, should i consider post-WO nutrition? def. not looking for a female body-builder body, just would really like to lean out. thanks!

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5 Answers

1
B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 28, 2012
at 07:59 AM

A lot of body builders say that carbs are important for muscle building, but how does this play into a paleo diet?

I don't understand? How many times do people have to say that paleo is not low-carb? I am sedentary, I eat sugar by the spoonful, I drink 2-3 quarts of milk, all in all eat at least 300g sugar daily. Still don't get fat.

And for those that think I just have high metabolism or whatever, I became fat last year on a less-than-1500-kcal-diet composed of mostly bread, so I definitely can get fat. Give me some grains and I'll turn into Mr. Pregnant.

When will people understand it's not simply the carbs? As far as I know a PUFA-loaded low-carb diet won't make you lose weight...

Even Jimmy Moore admitted he lost weight on a high-carb low-fat diet, though he said he felt horrible.

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 27, 2012
at 08:43 PM

I've found that I build muscle and strength faster on a LC or VLC diet. I have less inflammation after work outs and so can train more often. The question is do you want to build muscle....or be lumpy?

Most bodybuilders are working in the 8-15 rep range which is actually building glycogen retention ability. They aren't building as much muscle fiber as sarcoplasm.

To me anything north of 5-6 reps is kinda pointless but I really am interested in functional strength and could care less how lumpy I look.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:43 PM

so good. I would only add for her to do some HIIT (sprint work) on her non-lifting days 2-4x per week.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:36 PM

I've lost 150lbs while never being hungry and I've got nothing to sell! Point is - hunger is a function of your bodies desire for calories. Cravings and flavor, in the context of whole foods, are your body telling you what it needs. Listen to it. If you love your food and have no cravings you are golden. In general that range sounds like a good place to start but in practice I'd guess you will probably end up loser to 2700-3000 on lift days and 1800-2000 on non-lift days.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:23 PM

I personally don't buy the dogma of bodybuilding. When you read what physical culture guys were saying around 1920 before protein supplements and the carb craze it was basically a Paleo diet and exercise to be healthy. If your goal is physique I would not do PWO shakes etc... I would just eat clean, highish protein, moderate fat and some veggies and fruit and lift 2-3 days a week. Do like 3x3 or 5x3 as heavy as you can go and give it six weeks. Then change it up in what seems like a better direction. Don't change plans too often, it takes time.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:05 PM

@new2paleo - Don't hold back in the gym for hear of getting "too big". Female bodybuilders are taking steroids and it's really hard for a woman to get super muscular without chemical assistance. Lift heavy, lift short, and get the hell out ASAP.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 10:19 PM

thanks you guys, all of this has been soo helpful. @likeslardinmayo -- yeah, i was thinking the bulking/cutting idea comes from too much carb intake. my macros look like this -- carb is def under 100 g/day, probably roughly 70-80g/day..then protein & fats are each of 100-140 g/day. total daily calorie intake is probably ~2000-2300 calories a day? does this sounds optimal?

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on April 28, 2012
at 10:38 AM

with regards to reps, do you think low reps helps with (is good for?) muscle hypertrophy or muscle hyperplasia, may be a bit of each, or may be unknown. just did a bit of googling but could not find much in the way of studies on the subject

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:42 PM

So good........

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:07 PM

Oh, Bulking and cutting really are a symptom of too much carbohydrate. You want enough to keep on track and not feel exhausted and no more. The bulk/cut thing feels like an eating disorder not an exercise regimen.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 11:01 PM

i'm doing a 4 day split routine, so i'll have to experiment w/ my calories. thanks! i will listen to my hunger cues as well.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on April 28, 2012
at 10:37 AM

with regards to reps, do you think low reps helps with (is good for?) muscle hypertrophy or muscle hyperplasia, may be a bit of each, or may be unknown. just did a bit of googling but could find much in the way of studies on the subject.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 08:48 PM

oh also, what is your take on leaning out on a paleo diet - do i still need to bulk and then cut? :-( i'm not a big girl, rather not "fluff" up in the beginning if possible.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 08:47 PM

i don't know how much muscle i want to put on, should i consider post-WO nutrition? def. not looking for a female body-builder body, just would really like to lean out. thanks!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:00 PM

I'd match HIIT to carb intake. If she generally is quite low-carb the amount of sprint work needed goes down. It's main benefit is insulin sensitivity and if you aren't driving mass gain (including fat) with insulin you can get away with a lot less. So for sub 50g I'd do 1 HIIT and very short. If they are eating yam and rice at every meal than yeah 2-4x a week sounds damn good. :

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on April 28, 2012
at 09:45 AM

Right, because carbs cause inflammation. Cmon now.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on April 28, 2012
at 10:39 AM

with regards to reps, do you think low reps helps with (promotes?) muscle hypertrophy or muscle hyperplasia, may be a bit of each, or may be unknown. just did a bit of googling but could not find much in the way of studies on the subject

0
B4612eaceea5507cd8820fa5ee8258b2

on April 27, 2012
at 09:11 PM

I'm Paleo and doing crossfit 3-4 times a week (for the past 8 months), and just going through the WODs with a protein shake and good diet have been enough for me to see both muscle growth and leanness in my appearance.

0
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on April 27, 2012
at 08:46 PM

I don't what "lumpy" likelardinmayo is talking about, but if you keep your carbs low (some is fine though to give you some energy around workouts), protein high, and total calories in check you will be able to lean out into a tight, hardbody in no time.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 08:49 PM

haha, what is "no time" defined as? i'm on week 2 of a paleo diet and i see results, but i'm an inpatient person too! :-)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:03 PM

Lumpy is exactly that. Bodybuilders drive muscle size by making the muscle as big as possible through sarcoplamic expansion, rather than the growth of new muscle fiber. If someone wants to be lean and strong they don't want to do High rep and make themselves as lumpy and bulgy as possible. You want lots of muscle fiber, not lots of glycogen.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 10:22 PM

@foreveryoung - i'm eating plenty of protein and fats (check out my reply above) does it really matter if i get lean cuts of meat? i'm eating lots of chicken, but with the skin too. i thought this was fine, or am i wrong?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 28, 2012
at 08:02 AM

For the bazillionth time, don't generalize your anecdotes. You can use anecdotes to prove something wrong, but you can't use it to prove something right...

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:05 PM

This thread has been helpful for me even though it's for the OP. Thanks @LikesLardinMayo and @foreveryoung

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:36 PM

Probably longer than you want, but faster than expected. Like between 1 and 2 months, without knowing your body fat% but judging by your weight and height. Likeslardinmayo has good lifting advice. Diet too. High protein, green vegetables, and some fruit around workouts. For proteins eggs, cuts of beef/bison (80/20 or leaner), chicken, and fish. Once you've met your goal you can incorporate more foods in, obviously.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:38 PM

Don't go on a bulk, ever. Just lift heavy and keep cals in check.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 11:46 PM

...I'm excited for you with all this good advice you're getting here. lol

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:18 PM

No problemo, SB. LLM apparently knows his sh**

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 28, 2012
at 11:06 AM

I don't know why I said that, its nitpicking. Maybe I'm just getting into high-carb dogma. My point was probably that you shouldn't say "you'll have this in no time if you do this", because you just don't know.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 10:14 PM

HEy, thanks LLM.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 11:45 PM

also, with your lifting, I'd lift 3 days per week and not just two. Include the big lifts like deadlifts, squats, benches, push press, and chin ups (eventually you'll be able to do em weighted if you keep at it). Make sure you're doing standard deadlifts AND stiff leg deadlifts too. The stiff leg will do wonders for your figure. on top of that do HIIT 2x per week. You are golden.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 10:22 PM

i get like antibiotic and antihormone free chicken thighs and legs. no breasts.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 28, 2012
at 11:07 AM

This is not for the basillionth time and what should I have done? Withheld my advice? I'm offering a solution she doesn't have to follow it.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 11:40 PM

As a matter of personal preference I do not eat the skin, but I eat things, breasts, and love drumsticks. It does contains loads of omega-6 fats though, so go easy on it.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 28, 2012
at 03:05 AM

@foreveryoung, thanks for the advice! didn't think about the omega-6... i hope it won't impede my fat loss too much? chicken breasts are just so plain tasting to me. how is chicken skin different (or worse) from eating like bacon? i thought you paleo people *love* bacon. haha and i'm doing a 4 day split - my leg days do include major lifts like squats and such.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 28, 2012
at 11:02 AM

okay. So instead I should have said what?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 28, 2012
at 11:58 AM

Yeah saying in no time is a bit far fetched but I was trying to be positive. and given her height and bw, and from the transformations I've seen, it seems very doable. eating veggies and meat and and fruit around workouts is pretty much fool proof.

-1
B97bb053b69b8a1e404c226afced44a0

on April 27, 2012
at 09:12 PM

No such thing as "genetics" when it comes to what your body can and can't do. Sorry, hard truth. People aren't BORN fat. You get that way through bad diet and no exercise. Fix your diet and eventually you'll see those abs.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:22 PM

Rebecca you don't have a clue. For instance, some people are born with more fast twitch vs slow twitch fibers, and are genetically predisposition to be better sprinters. That is just one of many examples. You have no clue. I bet you didn't do very well in science class, did you?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:50 PM

Rebecca, the reason you're seeing "major fat loss and muscle building" is because you were apparently coming of a SAD diet and were not lifting heavy before. The rapid results will diminish once you get closer to what you think ideal is. Experienced lifters are very familiar with a term called "beginner gains" or "newbie gains" and their is an equivalent to fat loss as well.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:29 PM

And the OP never said anything about her being "fat"...just wanted to lean out. Big difference. And abs for a woman is not always possible, and seeing abs is not always an indication of health and the perfect diet and exercise regime.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 28, 2012
at 10:34 AM

You obviously never saw the effect of hormones, Sunny Beaches ;). People can change. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't believe you're right either.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 28, 2012
at 08:01 AM

Genetics play a role, but they're hardly an excuse. I've seen some very muscular sons of fat parents.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:27 PM

Of course genetics plays a role. Some people have bone structure that would be amazing for a swimmer but that same build would make it a great challenge to have the "perfect" ballet body, no matter their training and diet. People build muscle differently, gain weight in different places first...the difference in male and female hormones is an example that "genetics" does play a role. No two bodies are the same in bone structure, difference in fibers like foreveryoung said, and in hormone secretion.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 28, 2012
at 08:21 AM

@Korion, nobody is denying that weight can be controlled. It's just the idea that you can have "any body you want" despite genetics. The OP is talking about seeing abs, not complaining about weight. It's referring to muscular build, potential, etc. I am never going to be a linebacker, no matter what I do. My body will never do that. Truth. Women, because of genetics, have greater difficulty obtaining visible abs because of biology and less testosterone, and nothing can change the hormonal differences (unless you're talking about external sources like pills).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:19 PM

Wow you obviously don't know what you're talking about. Genetically some people have more fast twitch vs slow twitch fibers and vice versa. People with fast twitch fibers are genetically predisposition to be better sprinters. That is just one example. Rebecca you have no clue what you're talking about.

870fdea50f2a9f1cd2890c8e22549300

(2056)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:53 PM

Rebecca, if you calculate the OP's BMI you will see that is less than 20. This is not a question of "fat."

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 28, 2012
at 02:38 PM

this sounds kinda TMI or gross, but i can literally just grab the subcutaneous fat -- it's probably like 2 inches worth or fat?? right underneath, i can feel my lower abdomen muscles though... so it's def just subcut. fat.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 27, 2012
at 10:24 PM

@sunnybeaches, i may be wrong in my wording using the term "lean out". my goal is ultimately to get rid of fat (i don't really have that much), but i would like some nice definition. i wish i could provide a BF% to be more specific, sorry guys.

B97bb053b69b8a1e404c226afced44a0

(132)

on April 27, 2012
at 09:14 PM

By the way - I eat VLC and am doing just fine lifting heavy and doing all the stuff I want to do - and am seeing major fat loss and muscle definition coming. Unless you're an endurance athlete, you don't need hundreds of grams of carbs a day. I eat well below 100g. 30-50g on rest days, and 50-75ish on training days. Just make sure your caloric intake is adequate to support those growing muscles.

8b755a8d7144a1d1bc799da4a3a53ccd

on April 28, 2012
at 02:37 PM

@sunnybeaches, hey! i'm not even sure if my genetics will allow my to develop abs. i def still have some subcutaneous lower belly fat, but everywhere else i'm lean. i think some of this was from cortisol-fat storage....do you or anyone else have any input to help out with this?

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