15

votes

Is paleo for everyone? In my case, I still might not have found what I'm looking for...

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 05, 2012 at 7:14 AM

I'm going to do my best to keep this as short as possible...

First, you guys are amazing. I've been doing the Paleo thing since mid-september, and any question I've had has either been easily accessible via an easy search, or answered immediately through this amazing community. Can't thank you guys enough!

In an attempt to bullet point my musings, I'll try to pro/con my inquiry after a brief expos??.

I've been paleo for roughly 4 months, but spend the first 7 of 2011 as a vegan (as you can imagine, ate many non-paleo foods), began re-introducing animal products from July - September (mix of paleo/non-paleo foods) because I was experiencing some odd hormonal/physical symptoms, then fell for the paleo way of life. Have spent hours upon hours devouring material from our Swedish doctor pal Andres, read Robb Wolf's book in one sitting, have read both good calories/bad calories from Gary Taubes, know the Primal Blueprint like the back of my hand, own hordes of paleo cookbooks, have checked Wheatbellyblog.com 90 times in 90 days, subscribe to Sean's Underground Wellness podcast as well as Balanced Bites podcast, et al. You might say, I became obsessed with learning everything about this way of life that I possibly could, much to the chagrin of my employer. Now, with that being said, here's what my first 4 months have looked like, pro/con wise:

CONS:

  • For the fist time this year, I was sick... three times. First was the expected "low carb flu," second was another bout with said flu, the third was a hacking cough and sore throat that didn't subside for 2 weeks.

  • I can count on one hand how many normal bowel movements I've had since starting the diet. I'll go 3-4 days without so much as an inkling to go #2, then I'll either be completely constipated, or I'll have to make an Usain Bolt-esque emergency sprint to the toilet to make sure I don't have an accident in public. If digestion is any indication, I'm as unhealthy as they come.

  • I've not lost a single pound, and in fact, I've done nothing but get bigger.

  • I've had a constant brain fog that I can't get rid of to save my life.

  • For the first time in my life, I'm a sweaty mess. My armpits leak sweat like a sprinkler. It's one of the most embarrassing things I've ever experienced.

PROS

  • I guess I'm not as hungry between meals... can do the whole 16/8 fasting thing without many hunger pangs.

  • I gained weight/mass, but have remained pretty steady (with the help of IF) over the last 3 weeks.

NOTE

  • I've literally cheated one time in 4 months, and it was eating most of the traditional Thanksgiving meals during the holiday, and I consume alcohol roughly 5 of the 7 days of the week. But with that being said, they're mainly "paleo accepted" spirits like vodka, gin, rum, tequila, with the occasional whiskey drink, red/white wine, and not a single beer since beginning this journey. I suppose you could say that's the only non-paleo activity in my life.

(If you totally stopped reading, I totally agree. I would have bailed long ago myself!)

CONCLUSION

As a vegan/"normal" eater, I never ate junk food, never drank soda, exercised plenty, but did count calories like Rain Man. Was the leanest I'd ever been in my life, and felt pretty OK. As a paleo eater, I'm fatter, can't have a normal bowel movement to save my life, and I sweat like a pig. Is it possible that eliminating grains/legumes/sugars/dairy have been a detriment to my health? Perhaps consuming grains since birth has caused my body to accept those foods, despite the evidence to the contrary that they're evil?

I hope I don't sound like an ass, but it is what it is. Just trying to figure my ish out, and so far, as much as I'd like to believe paleo is the ideal lifestyle choice, my body just isn't wanting to go along for the ride, it seems...

So much for keeping this short. If anyone actually read this to the end, I owe you a box of grass fed beef jerky and a kiddie pool filled with coconut oil.

UPDATE

Per request, a couple of bullet points answering James' questions that he posted yesterday (link to his post here: http://bit.ly/xlvXG6)

1) *On what my goals are <-- I'm already pretty healthy. Had blood work done recently, and all is perfect. Trying desperately to shed the same visceral stomach fat I've had since I was a kid.

2) *On issues of being vegan/SAD <-- It's hard to say I was on the SAD diet because I never really ate junk, but there were no holds barred with other food items. Tortillas, bread, grains, beer, etc... all was A-OK. Would indulge in the occasional cupcake/pastry from time to time as well.

3) *On topic of upping fat <-- I have trouble with figuring out what kinds of fats to add... I mean, should one be spooning lard?

4) *On topic of whether I'm gaining fat, or lean body mass <-- Haven't jumped on a scale in about 3 weeks, but based on the circumference of my waist, I've gained three inches since going Paleo.

5) *On topic of crazy amounts of sweat <-- it's tough for me to accept this... like, I have to always wear black to cover up the insane amount of sweat?! Das crazy!

6) *On topic of alcohol <-- yeah, I know this is something I could cut down on, but it's complicated... I work a lifestyle job and it's really hard to avoid. But when I was vegan/eating "normal" and drinking before, these symptoms didn't exist. With my prior was of eating, alcohol was always present.

7) *On topic of why I'm IFing <-- Did the paleo thing, did nothing but blow up... that was for about 3 months. So I decided to give IFing a try, and it basically stopped the steady rise to fat pants.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 08, 2012
at 12:38 AM

Like so many things, not available in my area. Looks good though.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on January 07, 2012
at 11:55 PM

@Nance It's the brand. Spendy, but fantastic. http://www.synergydrinks.com I've actually used it as a starter to make my own 'booch.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 07, 2012
at 10:21 PM

Well, I meant more overall (sweating, fat more under control, etc...).

724ba4f39f7bbea7f74b45c0a79615f2

(1968)

on January 07, 2012
at 01:12 PM

you mean the sweating? I still get it occasionally if I really over-do the fat (esp. coconut oil), but it usually passes. I've been at this 2 months or so? At first I was sweaty all the time (or at least, that's how it felt, since I never sweated at all before). I probably stil sweat more than I used to, but not so that I notice much or that I care.But here's another thought, low blood sugar makes me sweat like a pig (if I go to bed too hungry, I wake up at 2am drenched and burning up), so it could also be IF related.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:52 PM

OK, here's a photo to show you what I'm talking about... at 148 pounds, I'd think I'd be able to shed this: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/fatwu.jpg/ -- Here's another photo at around 200 pounds http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/825/fat2.png/ -- only difference is that I'm just a smaller version of me, same pot belly.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:48 PM

@g, good to know. I'd heard the kobucha in stores was pretty dead; I'll look for GT's (is that a brand or store?)

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:42 PM

Thank you, Melissa! I wonder if I'm healthy enough yet to add those in... guess I'll just have to play with it.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:35 PM

Thanks, G! Appreciate it.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:34 PM

Hey, Krisha! About how long did it take for you to adapt? Seems like I should be at that point now... but it's not exactly the case.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:06 PM

@george Store bought kombucha is fine. And delicious. Gt the live kind, obvs. GT's is the jam.

35ba1f50dad25c85ac1aa2599fe5c5cb

(2485)

on January 06, 2012
at 10:53 PM

Honestly, if you think you have visceral fat that has been bothering you since you were 8 and it still "infuriated" you at a BMI of 21 and a 31" waist, then you might want to think about talking to an eating disorder counselor. And I'm not snarking. Something seems off about the way you're viewing your body, and the level of stress you're causing yourself over a healthy body size is doing you no good.

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 06, 2012
at 09:54 PM

You said the blood tests 1 week ago were for something unrelated? This is something else, so I don't see why he'd be upset about it. It's not like you have to go to his office. All you need to do is tell his nurse what you want, and s/he can mail you the papers you need to go get your blood drawn. It's really simple. If he's a jackass about it, you can do it online (same procedure except the paperwork comes directly from the Lab, not from your doctor).

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 06, 2012
at 09:53 PM

You said the blood tests 1 week ago were for something unrelated? This is something else, so I don't see why he'd be upset about it. It's not like you have to go to his office, tell his nurse what you want, and the nurse and s/he can mail you the papers you need to go get your blood drawn. It's really simple. If he's a jackass about it, you can do it online (same procedure except the paperwork comes directly from the Lab, not from your doctor).

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on January 06, 2012
at 08:10 PM

Unfortunately that doesn't always work. http://paleohacks.com/questions/22035/getting-leaner-with-starch

724ba4f39f7bbea7f74b45c0a79615f2

(1968)

on January 06, 2012
at 07:58 PM

some more thoughts based on your update: (1) when I started eating meat again I was sweaty too. It passed. Honest. Now I'm back to being sweat-free and still am not nearly as cold as I was when veggie; (2) re: Ambimorph, she's right, when you're malnourished it all comes back in your belly and your face. It passes too, but I'd def. opt for weight training; (3) re: soydogs, fake meat doesn't really need to be chewed like real meat, so I don't know if you're wolfing down the meat, but that's something I remember about soymeat, it just falls apart in your mouth.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 07:10 PM

OK, will do. Doubt doing another blood test a week later would be recommended by my doc... but you never know.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 07:09 PM

Well, based on the literature I've read, the surefire way to eliminate visceral belly fat is by getting as low on the carbs as possible, hitting ketosis, and using that stored fat as fuel. The higher the carbs, the less fat burned... Seems to be a pretty ubiquitous suggestion among the ancestral community.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 07:08 PM

Warren - of the array of products they have, do you suggest one over another?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 06, 2012
at 06:12 PM

Seriously George. If you are considering using probiotics (like kefir), try Primal Defense probiotics. You will get a wider variety of good bacterias.

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 06, 2012
at 06:12 PM

I imagine they discard the blood it to be honest, but you could call a nurse and ask.

Af005ec9a8e028f2b04bf5367b64e0d6

(2797)

on January 06, 2012
at 06:00 PM

Don't go low carb. Jesus that's why yuo feel like shit and are having such weird results and screwing your body up. How's this for a new definition of paleo: EAT REAL FOOD. DONT DO ANYTHING EXTREME.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:52 PM

I mean, it was a difference between having a little pudge, and having a real, legit belly. Will see if I can find a picture to post.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:50 PM

Gotcha... it's just, observationally, I've definitely gained legitimate fat since starting this paleo thing. Noticeably bigger love handles, clothes not fitting as well, etc... While I do see a change in my muscular structure w/o doing any weight training to speak of, I've definitely packed on fat, and I can't say I've been going crazy on anything that could cause this (nuts, for example). Just eating paleo foods, usually three square meals (before I started IF where I have about 2 and a small snack), and it's caused noticeable fat accumulation.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:47 PM

Thank you! I just had blood drawn for an unrelated thing about 1 week ago... they emailed me the results, but I think they were looking for other things. Is it possible to ask them to take a look at that same blood to test for these as well?

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:45 PM

Done, and done. It's in the original post. Hope it's clear enough this time.

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:42 PM

With Hypothyroid you can get many dangerous health problems, no matter how good your diet and exercise is. So please look into it, because from your post, you're doing everything right, and you still feel awful.

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:41 PM

Longer list of symptoms http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/long-and-pathetic/

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:40 PM

Does this help, George? http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labwork/ Your doctor will probably test only TSH, so **make sure** he also gets you: FREE T4 and FREE T3, REVERSE T3, and Thyroid Antibodies (2 different tests). So you get blood drawn once and you get these 6 results.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 04:02 PM

Yeah, I was going to ask how I'd even go about testing that if it were the case. Will take a look and let you know!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 03:48 PM

The kombucha you find in a corner store is probably weak in probiotics--I know that's true for dairy "kefir" sold in stores.

E05b8d2c9ae8a9a92341785f342f131d

(346)

on January 06, 2012
at 03:30 PM

Maybe you could add this as an update to your question. It's a bit confusing as an answer.

74f5d2ff6567edd456d31dfb9b92af61

(5227)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:02 AM

Eh, you're not alone, George. Mine hasn't been entirely seamless, either. My IBS is killing me right now, and foods that were formerly "safe" are making me sick. There's a fermentation party in my tummy tonight and all the probiotics are invited: I'm currently feasting on kombucha, kimchi, and full fat goat's milk yoghurt, but not necessarily mixed in that order. XD Good luck; I hope you find relief soon! :) (And please, if you do, let me know what worked for you!)

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 03:07 AM

Sorry, that's a No. Water kefir is not found in stores to my knowledge although it is said to be easier and faster to brew.

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on January 06, 2012
at 03:05 AM

I am 5'9" - 5'10" and 152 pounds. I am not lean but not ridiculously skinny and I have some belly fat. Not like a gut and shit, but enough to make me cry myself to sleep every night (jokes).

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 01:43 AM

So... it looks like water kefir is pretty much the same thing as kombucha, yeah? So if I don't have time to make my own, I can likely just swoop a bottle up at a corner store?

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 01:41 AM

Tried to add this comment earlier, but for some reason, I don't see it here. If I'm in an energy balance, doesn't that mean I'll lose no weight at all? The way to lose stored fat is to eat under BMR?

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 01:40 AM

From what most are saying, it seems as though it might just take some time. Also, gut flora (which I'd never even considered prior to the last 24 hours) might be an issue as well. Will plug along, add more than just meat, and see where it takes me. I'm just so jealous of everyone whose transition to Paleo was a veritable walk in the park :(

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 01:10 AM

Or, skin and bones with normal fat on the belly; perhaps he needs to keep it and add a little layer all over.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:19 PM

Yoicks. 5'10" and 148. Skin and bones with a belly?

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:18 PM

Regarding being a diabetic: Oh no you wouldn't! Even if you didn't sweat much, any sweat would smell sooooo bad!

Bfa1c9eacfc94a1b62f3a39b574480c6

(3700)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:09 PM

It's the gut and psychology syndrome diet proposed by Dr. Natasha Campbell Mcbride. Chris Kresser also has a version of it on his site as well, but basically, it's a diet that allows the gut lining to heal so you don't have a compromised gut barrier/flora, and then one can start adding certain foods back in. Usually GAPS is used when someone is reacting to multiple foods that shouldn't be reacted to.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 05, 2012
at 08:04 PM

I find the theory behind visceral fat and cortisol compelling. And there's also this: http://gettingstronger.org/2011/11/obesity-starts-in-the-brain-2/ But yeah, I don't think paleo the way you are implementing it is gonna work for you!

Medium avatar

(39821)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:56 PM

Piles of tropical HGs eat piles of tuber, man. The bulk of hominin evolution involved their consumption. They're a highly nutritious form of starch. 2 lbs raw weight of sweet potato is only like 150g of carbs if you're concerned about that. Nice and bulky for satiety as well. The key is energy balance. You struggles creating a deficit with what you're doing, so now try tubers and lean meat.

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:54 PM

I also never ate beef, even as a child. My mom never cooked it well! :P I only started eating beef when I started Paleo. I eat beef atleast 4-5 times a week, and I would eat more except I also really like fish and pork. I have no symptoms like yours. George, Paleo is great, but it's not the only thing that affects your health, specially if you ate SAD, then became vegan.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:51 PM

Well... aren't tubers kinda/sorta non-paleo? And a diet of meat/potatoes are non-Atkins? No veggies at all? Fasting has been my tool to try and create a caloric deficit... seems to work for hordes of folks and I seemed to be blowing up eating three meals/day. Fasting, I've stopped the air going into said balloon, and have stabilized.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:39 PM

Good for you! Make sure the yogurt is lively; look for "live culture" on the label. Here's a link about water kefir: http://gnowfglins.com/2009/12/18/whats-so-great-about-water-kefir/ and I also talk about it on my blog: http://ancestralcrone.blogspot.com/2011/12/brewing-water-kefir-part-1.html Hope you feel better soon!

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:28 PM

You could even have Hypo and not have many symptoms because you eat Paleo (I have Hyperthyroid, asymptomatic because of Paleo), but with Hypo you must get medication!

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:26 PM

Note I don't endorse this website (I haven't read it besides that page), I'm just listing it so you see hypothyroid symptoms in men, and if you have other symptoms in that list. Like I said, I hate to jump to conclusions, but I don't even know you and I'm anxious :P http://myhypothyroidismnaturaltreatment.com/thyroid_symptoms_in_men/

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:24 PM

Nicely prescriptive.

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:24 PM

What do you think about the hypothyroid thing? I hate to jump to conclusions but your symptoms seem to have more to do with Hypo than Paleo.

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:24 PM

Ok, I was wondering about the fasting because you said "without many hunger pangs", so I assumed you had them. When I fast I don't have any hunger pants, if I do, I stop and eat. Yeah, your fasting seems like what happens to me, I'm not hungry at all, but eventually say "OK, that's enough... there's no contest; go eat something".

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:21 PM

Gain weight perhaps but not necessarily fat. And I don't believe you'll sustain absorbing 1000 calories excess while constipated. Either way, a couple of months of eating paleo foods without stressing about it is not going to make you obese.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on January 05, 2012
at 07:14 PM

Why low carb? I never get low-carb flu because I eat a moderate amount of carbs (100 grams or so a day). I just don't see what low-carb will do for you.

74f5d2ff6567edd456d31dfb9b92af61

(5227)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:14 PM

You ask a good question, George. I know that I typically lean toward poultry and fish and very rarely crave ground beast, so I'm not too sure if dead cows upset my stomach or not. A steak is in order -- an experiment for the Sake of Science and the Betterment of all of Humanity, I'll call it! ;D And you speak the truth about bacon, but then again, bacon eaters are of the highest order and are above petty things like lies. I wonder if digestive enzymes would help any, though? I haven't researched/taken them myself, but if it meant I could eat bacon again, I'd be down for it.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:08 PM

Thanks for the tip, Andy! I'm just afraid that if I go crazy and eat over my BMR, I'll balloon up. I understand how it's not as simple as calories in/calories out... but it's basic science that if I'm eating 1,000 of calories from protein/fat than what my body needs to operate, I'll gain weight.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:06 PM

I usually exercise about 5 days a week, but in December/early January, I've probably exercised about 5 days total. Combo of being busy, holidays, etc... While exercising, I didn't lose any weight, but I suppose a bit of good news is that while not being in the gym nearly as much, I haven't noticeably ballooned either. I live in San Francisco and walk upwards of 4 miles a day and bike constantly, so even though I'm not in a gym, I'm still active. But yeah... the bowel movements are unreal. Unlike anything I've ever experienced.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:02 PM

Thanks, Kaz! Bacon is a main player in my diet too... the gateway drug of sorts when going from veg to meat eating :) Bacon is always the meat to break a vegetarian string, for sure. I also consume a lot of beef these days, and it was 100% devoid of my diet for over 11 years. Could be a bit of a shock to my body eating steak and hamburgers?

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:56 PM

Thanks for the tip - I'll give it a try!

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:56 PM

Well, I've been trying desperately for 1.5 years to finally rid myself of the visceral fat that I've had since I was an 8 year old and sucking my stomach in on the playground. Have never had a flat stomach, no matter how much calorie counting and exercise I accomplished. Even eating as a vegan and whittling down to 148 pounds (I'm 5'10"), I still had that gut, and it was infuriating. Paleo seemed like just the thing to finally succeed, and I've been avoiding fruit until I get there. But alas, I've made zero progress, and even gained 2 inches around the waist. FML.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:53 PM

As much as I'd love to say I was the perfect vegan, I will admit that a bunch of my food came from those strange meat analogues. Boca burgers, tempeh stir frys, "chic'n" strips, etc... I did get my salads in, but the mock meats were pretty prevalent in my diet. Looking back, I felt pretty OK for the first 4-5 months on a vegan diet, then started feeling icky (hence switching to a paleo diet). Perhaps I'm just expecting my body to adapt faster than it wants to? I dunno... just a bit frustrating. But I do think that more veggies will help, as well as fermented food stuffs.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:51 PM

Oh, and I will definitely follow up! First step, adding more veggies. As much as I know homemade bone broths, eating offal, and other tactics work... I'm a 29 year old guy living in San Francisco and an on the go pretty frequently. The only way this is going to work for me is if it's somewhat convenient/sustainable, which I hope it eventually is.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:49 PM

This is great, and I totally agree with making a tweak for more veggies in the diet. No real intrest in grains/wheat coming back into the fray, and it could be my body is taking longer than expected to adapt. I had a friend make a comparison that was a bit of an "ah ha" moment when I brought it up to him. He referenced heroin users and detox. Obviously, heroin is terrible for the human body, but when going through rehab, eliminating the drug causes the body to revolt. While not nearly as severe, perhaps I'm going through something similar? I'd just hoped that over 4 months would do the trick..

74f5d2ff6567edd456d31dfb9b92af61

(5227)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:47 PM

Hey, George. :) I'm sorta in the same boat as you, transitioning abruptly from veggie to Paleo. I see that you eat quite a bit of dead pig in your diet. I don't know if it's related to the fact I was a veggie or what, but I've completely lost my ability to digest pork products, and any time I do attempt to consume it, I get bound up all kinds of dreadful. (Coconut destroys me as well, but that's a story for another day.) But yeah...that's an awful lot of pig on your plate. What if you omitted it from your rotation for a short bit and see if it helps any? Good luck! :)

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:45 PM

(which actually kind of scares me a little bit...). I even did a 30+ hour fast recently, and I didn't have a single rumble in my stomach. I really lacked energy and my brain was moving in slow motion, but not a hunger pang to be found. I ate just because my energy was so low, but not because my stomach couldn't handle another minute without food. Normal?

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:44 PM

These are all great tips - thank you! I don't eat that many vegetables now, and when I do, it's basically a salad. Romaine lettuce, spinach, etc... I have had a few plates of brussels sprouts, a little broccoli, have made some kale chips... but that's about all. Re: fasting – I'm doing it to lose fat (main reason I adopted this diet... basically eliminating breakfast). Just wasn't seeing results eating eggs/bacon for breakfast, something meaty for lunch, more meat for dinner. And to correct you, I'm actually *never* hungry, and fasting is a breeze eating this way. I literally never have pangs.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:40 PM

So, you're suggesting that perhaps I ease up on the meat, add in some veggies for fiber, and eventually, my gut will catch up? I can deal with that... just don't want to get stuck in a yo-yo routine of being low carb/high carb and having those "low carb flu" symptoms perennially floating around. It's the pits!

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:35 PM

But also, as you did reference, I suspect that most of my body mass gain might be from regaining muscle lost during that vegan phase. I went from a size 31 waist to a 34 going paleo (around the stomach... where I thought this lifestyle was going to save the day and blast the visceral fat I'd been trying to eliminate). But I do notice more rolls around my mid-section when I bend to the side (my wacky way of keeping track of fat gain). I guess that reading all the success stories of folks rapidly burning fat and feeling great has me second guessing. Perhaps it's just a matter of time?

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:32 PM

Thank you for that study! I'm going to dive in right away. Re: the carbohydrate levels... while I haven't kept track via Fit Day or anything like that, I know I haven't been over 50 grams of carbs in at least a month. Aside from a salad every couple of days, I don't eat fruit, haven't had a potato in ages, and rarely indulge in a piece of dark chocolate. That leaves mostly leafy veggies, meat, avocado, etc... Just started taking multi-vitamins/magnesium/potassium supplements to fil any voids, but it's too soon to tell whether or not those will help (been less than a week).

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:27 PM

Thanks, Nance! I really have no desire to go back to eating wheat/grains/etc... because the science I've read through all of the literature we're familiar with just makes way too much sense. I just figured that after 4 months on this diet, my body would eventually transition after hitting the expected bumps in the road. I think my next step might be eating some more yogurt, looking into your water kefir, and easing up on the meat. Perhaps, at least for me, the old adage from Michael Pollan of "Eat real food. Mostly plants. Not too much" might be the answer.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:22 PM

I guess one other thing I could add is that, while this is just a snapshot of my last 3 or so days of eating, I actually do eat quite a bit of beef. And up until about mid-October, I hadn't eaten a piece of beef since I was 18 years old (I'm 29 now). I'd guess that I eat some kind of beef product about 4-5 times a week now, and perhaps that could be a trigger for my wonky symptoms? Like I said, it's just funny that, as a non-paleo, digestion was perfect most of the time.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 05, 2012
at 05:23 PM

down votes...thanks-not. Why does Dr. Jack get under your skin so much? He is helping ppl. His ideas have helped me tremendously. Spend your time helping ppl with your ideas!

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on January 05, 2012
at 04:19 PM

Agree. You liklely need magnesium & K, too. More info on D here: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on January 05, 2012
at 04:06 PM

The reason to not consume fruit is related to weight loss/metabolic issues (diabetes/metsyn). No reason for healthy types to avoid it. And even those with weight to lose could stand a little fruit.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on January 05, 2012
at 03:34 PM

I was just gonna comment that he should add some fruit. There's no reason at all to avoid it, and I see no reason that fruit should not be considered paleo. That's one of the things I *fail* to understand around here...

1dda08efb8ba98e9128fdef038153227

(120)

on January 05, 2012
at 03:23 PM

I came to Paleo vegan and suffering from IBS at the time. The IBS is opposite of your situation. It seemed to clear up very quickly, but I would still have bouts here and there. Once I started taking Vitamin D3 5000 IU once a day it cleared up. I've been doing that for a month and haven't had problems with it. I am still looking for that balance where I don't have to take supplements, but it seems I would have to eat more food than I am now and that may be virtually impossible for me.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on January 05, 2012
at 03:23 PM

i say you are either trying to hard, trying to be to pure, or...your vegan diet allowed a larger variety, more fat and better stools. you seem lacking variety in eating now. i get constipated from protein too fwiw and our IBSish symptoms are similar...

0df0b1c6ae16bbb75b4a5efa3d876765

(2240)

on January 05, 2012
at 11:13 AM

George, I feel you on the liver thing. I've tried a few different suggestions to get it down, and most weren't very palatable for me. However...I did finally figure out a way that works which seems to be helping me to warm up to eating it, and that is to chop it up and include it in my crock pot roast/beef stew recipes. By the time it cooks in with the meat, it takes on the flavor of the roast/stew. I just cooked a 2 lb shoulder roast last Friday with about 1/3 lb of chopped liver and it came out wonderful. A few days later, I cooked a crock pot whole chicken with added chicken hearts.

0df0b1c6ae16bbb75b4a5efa3d876765

(2240)

on January 05, 2012
at 11:03 AM

Agreed. I live in FL but no matter how hard I tried to get out in the sun more during my first two months, stuff always seemed to come up that kept me indoors or had me outside late afternoon/early evening. I'm more into the idea of trying to get all of my nutrition from food (which is why I've started eating liver and heart for the first time in my life), but I did start supplementing with D3 after 6 weeks into it. Now I'm also considering having calcium, magnesium, and K2 supplements on hand for occasional (not daily) supp'ing.

685e3c967e63b4eacccf02628fd9a3ac

(1026)

on January 05, 2012
at 09:04 AM

I would definitely take D3. I read about D3 lots of times last year, but I always said to myself "I get enough sun, my d3 will be fine". Until I saw the extreme deficiency on my blood test.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on January 05, 2012
at 09:02 AM

Oh, and back to my first concern about protein being the dominant macro here, have you entered some of this into fit day to see what you get?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:57 AM

Thoughts: raw cabbage causes serious IBS issues for me, coleslaw could be a problem. Fermented cabbage is a whole different story though, and can help you digest your other food better (but you already knew that). You might also be one of those people who need some starchy tubers or rice. It also looks like pork and eggs are appearing more than red meat and fish, could O6:03 ratios be off and allowing for some inflammation? When digestion is iffy bone broth is almost magic for me. Organ meats and seafood more too? And sadly, I am a fan of the booze myself, but maybe a break, just to see.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:43 AM

Gaps diet? I'm more of a Banana Republic guy, personally. Kidding, but if you could shed some light, I'd be very appreciative!

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:41 AM

Good to know... D3. Will look into it. Thanks!

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:40 AM

Haha, yes. Damn you, auto correct!

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:39 AM

I'm guessing it was a typo but I love the idea of "defiled eggs".

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:20 AM

It is easy to get low on Vitamin D unless you live in a sunny place. Many Paleo Hackers suplement with D3. SAD dieters get Vitamin D in fortified foods.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:12 AM

I do love me some goat yogurt, so if that helps, I'm all about it! It's just odd that when I was eating bread, rice, corn, oats, the occasional pastry, beer, etc... I was just fine in the bathroom and never sweat like NFL offensive lineman. Now, following the paleo way of life, my insides are all out of whack. Tough to determine which my body needs/wants more.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:10 AM

Try Primal Defense tablets. They are a convenient and good quality probiotic. I take it you are eating a lot of meat? The more the meat is cooked, the more it can cause constipation in some people. Eggs also seem to be a probem for some people (I think it's when they are cooked). Try eating meat that doesn't need a lot of cooking. I'm a big fan of lamb and eat it almost raw when possible. The flavour is amazing.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:02 AM

I can't imagine I'd be any lower now than how I was previously eating... Unless dumping grains has left nutrients out of my diet. Never had these issues before paleo. I suppose it could be possible, though.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:02 AM

The kind of solution I suggested above is what our ancestors ate, and I don't have to go back to hunter-gatherer times, but 30-50 years ago in my home-country, Greece (I'm coming from a village in the mountains of Greece). I was eating a lot of offal (tripe, lungs too) as a kid, broths, honey, goat yoghurt, goat meat, mountain tea. When I left Greece for UK & later US, eating SAD, my IBS-D exploded. When I went Paleo I went all the way eating these "olden" foods. It cured my IBS within days (I have very little of it remaining in 4 months). So I speak from experience for the regime I proposed.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:58 AM

And seriously... Thanks for reading!

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:57 AM

Ha! Menu wise... The food I eat is pretty basic. I can recall the last few days, but beyond that is a bit fuzzy: Today. IF until 2:00, omelette with bacon/onions for lunch... Lamb kebab with house salad for dinner. Glass of sauv blanc, Canadian bacon as a snack. Yesterday: IF until 2:00, plate of carnitas and guacamole for lunch, seaweed salad as snack. Dinner: pork ribs, Cole slaw. Day before last: IF until 2:00, Cobb salad. Snack of 5 defiled eggs. Grass fed hamburger patty for dinner. This is very typical, so it gives you some insight. I do fish oil, but that's a recent addition.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:50 AM

Oh, and honestly... I'd almost rather get diabetes than constantly have a pool of sweat under my arms at work or in social gatherings. Call me crazy, but me no likes that benefit of paleo if it's actually considered one. #vanity

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:45 AM

Thanks for the reply! Is it possible that I'll move beyond and re-capture my digestive health without jumping through those hoops? I mean, getting my hands on some hard cheese and honey is probably pretty easy, but if thats the only way to regulate my issues, in a busy world, that seems just a tad unsustainable. Not making my own bone broths or consuming liver... But is that really the only way to get an upper hand? I mean, I 1000% understand the benefits of eating "nature's multivitamin" (liver), but if those are the only steps to freedom, it's hard to see this hitting critical mass...

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:36 AM

Kudos. Honesty about things we want to believe versus our reality is important to further this conversation. You don't list actual menus here, but for some reason I'm getting the feeling from the symptoms you describe (constipation, sweatiness, brain fog) as maybe relying too much on muscle meat and ending up with more protein than fat or starch. Please elaborate so we can trouble shoot this...and I'm waiting for my kiddie pool of coconut oil.

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16 Answers

10
7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 05, 2012
at 01:27 PM

My vote is for adding some (lots?) carbs back into your diet! If you want to be more orthodox about it, add lots of fruit and tubers. Or come join us PHDers and add white rice.

It's not inconceivable that you will eventually adjust to the lack of fiber in your current diet compared to your previous diet, but the question is why do you need to? Stay off the wheat for now, but add back some starch and see how you feel.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 01:10 AM

Or, skin and bones with normal fat on the belly; perhaps he needs to keep it and add a little layer all over.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on January 05, 2012
at 03:34 PM

I was just gonna comment that he should add some fruit. There's no reason at all to avoid it, and I see no reason that fruit should not be considered paleo. That's one of the things I *fail* to understand around here...

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:19 PM

Yoicks. 5'10" and 148. Skin and bones with a belly?

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:56 PM

Well, I've been trying desperately for 1.5 years to finally rid myself of the visceral fat that I've had since I was an 8 year old and sucking my stomach in on the playground. Have never had a flat stomach, no matter how much calorie counting and exercise I accomplished. Even eating as a vegan and whittling down to 148 pounds (I'm 5'10"), I still had that gut, and it was infuriating. Paleo seemed like just the thing to finally succeed, and I've been avoiding fruit until I get there. But alas, I've made zero progress, and even gained 2 inches around the waist. FML.

6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on January 06, 2012
at 03:05 AM

I am 5'9" - 5'10" and 152 pounds. I am not lean but not ridiculously skinny and I have some belly fat. Not like a gut and shit, but enough to make me cry myself to sleep every night (jokes).

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on January 05, 2012
at 04:06 PM

The reason to not consume fruit is related to weight loss/metabolic issues (diabetes/metsyn). No reason for healthy types to avoid it. And even those with weight to lose could stand a little fruit.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 05, 2012
at 08:04 PM

I find the theory behind visceral fat and cortisol compelling. And there's also this: http://gettingstronger.org/2011/11/obesity-starts-in-the-brain-2/ But yeah, I don't think paleo the way you are implementing it is gonna work for you!

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:52 PM

I mean, it was a difference between having a little pudge, and having a real, legit belly. Will see if I can find a picture to post.

Af005ec9a8e028f2b04bf5367b64e0d6

(2797)

on January 06, 2012
at 06:00 PM

Don't go low carb. Jesus that's why yuo feel like shit and are having such weird results and screwing your body up. How's this for a new definition of paleo: EAT REAL FOOD. DONT DO ANYTHING EXTREME.

35ba1f50dad25c85ac1aa2599fe5c5cb

(2485)

on January 06, 2012
at 10:53 PM

Honestly, if you think you have visceral fat that has been bothering you since you were 8 and it still "infuriated" you at a BMI of 21 and a 31" waist, then you might want to think about talking to an eating disorder counselor. And I'm not snarking. Something seems off about the way you're viewing your body, and the level of stress you're causing yourself over a healthy body size is doing you no good.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:52 PM

OK, here's a photo to show you what I'm talking about... at 148 pounds, I'd think I'd be able to shed this: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/fatwu.jpg/ -- Here's another photo at around 200 pounds http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/825/fat2.png/ -- only difference is that I'm just a smaller version of me, same pot belly.

6
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on January 05, 2012
at 05:08 PM

According to your previous question (Getting heavier on paleo?), you were underweight in an unhealthy way.

My hypothesis is that I might just be re-gaining some basal muscle tissue that I lost as a vegan now that I'm eating way more protein (I was really, really skinny... not in a good way)

I think your hypothesis is a good one. No doubt you were malnourished.

It turns out that people who have suffered from caloric restriction must go through a period in which they store proportionally more fat than would otherwise be healthy. After a while (at most a year according to this study) body composition regularizes.

My opinion is that your malnourishment, even if it wasn't strictly caloric restriction, has put you in this position where you may have to tolerate being a little on the fat side until your body adjusts and starts taking your new healthy diet for granted.

Therefore, I would not recommend, as others have, to start adding back in starch. I think you should concentrate on getting the most nutrient-dense food you can (i.e. full-fat meat) to most quickly restore your health.

The brain fog and constipation sound to me like symptoms of insufficient fat, or possibly of eating a middling amount of carbohydrates that is preventing keto-adaptation. Can you give us a rough idea of your macro-percentages?

ETA: You might also think about micronutrients. For example, if you are low in magnesium, that could cause constipation and possibly even IBS symptoms.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:32 PM

Thank you for that study! I'm going to dive in right away. Re: the carbohydrate levels... while I haven't kept track via Fit Day or anything like that, I know I haven't been over 50 grams of carbs in at least a month. Aside from a salad every couple of days, I don't eat fruit, haven't had a potato in ages, and rarely indulge in a piece of dark chocolate. That leaves mostly leafy veggies, meat, avocado, etc... Just started taking multi-vitamins/magnesium/potassium supplements to fil any voids, but it's too soon to tell whether or not those will help (been less than a week).

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:35 PM

But also, as you did reference, I suspect that most of my body mass gain might be from regaining muscle lost during that vegan phase. I went from a size 31 waist to a 34 going paleo (around the stomach... where I thought this lifestyle was going to save the day and blast the visceral fat I'd been trying to eliminate). But I do notice more rolls around my mid-section when I bend to the side (my wacky way of keeping track of fat gain). I guess that reading all the success stories of folks rapidly burning fat and feeling great has me second guessing. Perhaps it's just a matter of time?

5
3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:28 AM

The sweating is a good sign actually. After going Paleo I managed to sweat properly after 20 years of having trouble sweating.

Regarding your IBS-A-like symptoms (constipation/diarrhea Alternate), I think the problem is that you either had a damaged gut flora beforehand that Paleo exposed, or that Candida found an opportunity during your transition to the new diet to indulge itself. I would suggest that you add hard cheeses from goat/sheep to your diet, and do your own lactose-free probiotic goat or sheep yoghurt (fermented for 20-24 hours). Then, try Yogi's Kombucha Decaf tea, chamomile, and Greek Mountain Tea if you can find it (in Mediterranean stores). Also start consuming some local raw & unfiltered honey, sauerkraut, and other fermented foods. Make sure you drink enough water too. This should take care of your bowel problems within a few weeks, as long as you are not battling mutated critters (in which case antibiotics might be needed, get tested at that point).

I'm guessing you are already drinking/cooking with bone marrow broths, eating offal (especially liver), and cooking with coconut oil, right?

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:12 AM

I do love me some goat yogurt, so if that helps, I'm all about it! It's just odd that when I was eating bread, rice, corn, oats, the occasional pastry, beer, etc... I was just fine in the bathroom and never sweat like NFL offensive lineman. Now, following the paleo way of life, my insides are all out of whack. Tough to determine which my body needs/wants more.

0df0b1c6ae16bbb75b4a5efa3d876765

(2240)

on January 05, 2012
at 11:13 AM

George, I feel you on the liver thing. I've tried a few different suggestions to get it down, and most weren't very palatable for me. However...I did finally figure out a way that works which seems to be helping me to warm up to eating it, and that is to chop it up and include it in my crock pot roast/beef stew recipes. By the time it cooks in with the meat, it takes on the flavor of the roast/stew. I just cooked a 2 lb shoulder roast last Friday with about 1/3 lb of chopped liver and it came out wonderful. A few days later, I cooked a crock pot whole chicken with added chicken hearts.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:02 AM

The kind of solution I suggested above is what our ancestors ate, and I don't have to go back to hunter-gatherer times, but 30-50 years ago in my home-country, Greece (I'm coming from a village in the mountains of Greece). I was eating a lot of offal (tripe, lungs too) as a kid, broths, honey, goat yoghurt, goat meat, mountain tea. When I left Greece for UK & later US, eating SAD, my IBS-D exploded. When I went Paleo I went all the way eating these "olden" foods. It cured my IBS within days (I have very little of it remaining in 4 months). So I speak from experience for the regime I proposed.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:56 PM

Thanks for the tip - I'll give it a try!

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:45 AM

Thanks for the reply! Is it possible that I'll move beyond and re-capture my digestive health without jumping through those hoops? I mean, getting my hands on some hard cheese and honey is probably pretty easy, but if thats the only way to regulate my issues, in a busy world, that seems just a tad unsustainable. Not making my own bone broths or consuming liver... But is that really the only way to get an upper hand? I mean, I 1000% understand the benefits of eating "nature's multivitamin" (liver), but if those are the only steps to freedom, it's hard to see this hitting critical mass...

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:50 AM

Oh, and honestly... I'd almost rather get diabetes than constantly have a pool of sweat under my arms at work or in social gatherings. Call me crazy, but me no likes that benefit of paleo if it's actually considered one. #vanity

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:18 PM

Regarding being a diabetic: Oh no you wouldn't! Even if you didn't sweat much, any sweat would smell sooooo bad!

4
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 05, 2012
at 05:23 PM

I'm going to honor your question as asked. About 4 months into ancestral eating, I had a crisis of confidence about it too. I didn't want to go back to my old way of eating, but I finally did.

If you believe there are things you could add to your diet to feel better--and you know what they are--then try them for a week. If you get amazingly better, you were right! If you feel the same or worse, we're back to what many of us suspect--your gut flora are very unhappy and you may have changed too much too fast. You might do better following Melissa-huntgatherlove's suggestions to eat lots of plants and some fish until you feel better.

Now, in my case I got sick as a dog when I tried the old foods and that solved my uncertainty once and for all. I now understand that this happens to be the best way of eating for me. And since no one else mentioned it, my fussy gut is the happiest it's ever been with daily water kefir which also happens to taste delicious to me. :-))

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 03:07 AM

Sorry, that's a No. Water kefir is not found in stores to my knowledge although it is said to be easier and faster to brew.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:39 PM

Good for you! Make sure the yogurt is lively; look for "live culture" on the label. Here's a link about water kefir: http://gnowfglins.com/2009/12/18/whats-so-great-about-water-kefir/ and I also talk about it on my blog: http://ancestralcrone.blogspot.com/2011/12/brewing-water-kefir-part-1.html Hope you feel better soon!

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:27 PM

Thanks, Nance! I really have no desire to go back to eating wheat/grains/etc... because the science I've read through all of the literature we're familiar with just makes way too much sense. I just figured that after 4 months on this diet, my body would eventually transition after hitting the expected bumps in the road. I think my next step might be eating some more yogurt, looking into your water kefir, and easing up on the meat. Perhaps, at least for me, the old adage from Michael Pollan of "Eat real food. Mostly plants. Not too much" might be the answer.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 01:43 AM

So... it looks like water kefir is pretty much the same thing as kombucha, yeah? So if I don't have time to make my own, I can likely just swoop a bottle up at a corner store?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 06, 2012
at 06:12 PM

Seriously George. If you are considering using probiotics (like kefir), try Primal Defense probiotics. You will get a wider variety of good bacterias.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:06 PM

@george Store bought kombucha is fine. And delicious. Gt the live kind, obvs. GT's is the jam.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 07:08 PM

Warren - of the array of products they have, do you suggest one over another?

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 03:48 PM

The kombucha you find in a corner store is probably weak in probiotics--I know that's true for dairy "kefir" sold in stores.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:48 PM

@g, good to know. I'd heard the kobucha in stores was pretty dead; I'll look for GT's (is that a brand or store?)

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:35 PM

Thanks, G! Appreciate it.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on January 07, 2012
at 11:55 PM

@Nance It's the brand. Spendy, but fantastic. http://www.synergydrinks.com I've actually used it as a starter to make my own 'booch.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 08, 2012
at 12:38 AM

Like so many things, not available in my area. Looks good though.

4
7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on January 05, 2012
at 02:25 PM

I don't think you're the only person to have experienced more IBS style symptoms when switching to paleo. My personal experience was that I was really sick from celiac disease for about a year before it got so bad I saw a doctor and was diagnosed. Since then, I've gotten seemingly even more sensitive to trace amounts of gluten as I heal up. But if I had switched to paleo before my celiac disease got really bad, I could see going from what I thought were normal bowel movements (type 2, but at least on a regular basis, every few days, even though that's actually constipation) to alternating between extreme ends of the Bristol scale.

This is all speculation, but I think our bodily systems make the best of whatever they're given, and with enough time, can reach a steady state that is manageable. So if you do happen to be gluten sensitive, then with gluten in your diet you could have reached some steady state in response to that, but it wasn't healthy. Now that you've perturbed the system, there's a shakeup and things are all over the place as it's trying to reach equilibrium again. I'd say give it more time to see what your steady state paleo feels like, and then, if you still felt better with grains, then switch back and see how it feels. Make tweaks and give them time (on the order of months). That way you'll find what works for you.

Also, if you felt better on a vegan diet than you do now, chances are your body prefers more fiber and carbs. I'd still keep out the sugar, veg oils, grains and legumes, but eat more veggies. I was surprised to see how meat-heavy your diet is now. The thing about paleo is that it isn't one size fits all. The books you read give a general starting point, but there are lots of tweaks that can be made to fit the individual. In your case, it sounds like a tweak towards more veggies (big ass salad for lunch, loads of well-cooked or fermented veggies with some meat, especially beef and fish, for dinner, and add more veggies to your omelet). I agree with folks above about staying away from difficult to digest veggies, like the cabbage in coleslaw. Sauerkraut is much easier to digest. I guess if I were you, I would think of it more like eating vegan (lots of vegetables vegan, not bread and french fries vegan) with the addition of some meat and sea food.

One last thought: grains include a lot of prebiotics to feed our gut bacteria. There was a study done in non-celiac people who went on a gluten-free diet for a month, and while inflammation was lower, their healthy gut bacteria were reduced. The authors thought the problem was from lack of prebiotics. So add more mushrooms, apples, oranges, and onions to your diet and see if that makes you feel better.

Good luck! Please follow up so we can see what tweaks worked for you and what didn't.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:51 PM

Oh, and I will definitely follow up! First step, adding more veggies. As much as I know homemade bone broths, eating offal, and other tactics work... I'm a 29 year old guy living in San Francisco and an on the go pretty frequently. The only way this is going to work for me is if it's somewhat convenient/sustainable, which I hope it eventually is.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:49 PM

This is great, and I totally agree with making a tweak for more veggies in the diet. No real intrest in grains/wheat coming back into the fray, and it could be my body is taking longer than expected to adapt. I had a friend make a comparison that was a bit of an "ah ha" moment when I brought it up to him. He referenced heroin users and detox. Obviously, heroin is terrible for the human body, but when going through rehab, eliminating the drug causes the body to revolt. While not nearly as severe, perhaps I'm going through something similar? I'd just hoped that over 4 months would do the trick..

3
Medium avatar

on January 05, 2012
at 07:09 PM

Your problem is that you've been eating Atkins in a Loin Cloth, not paleo. Switch to tubers (2 lbs raw weight is a good start) and meat (1-2 lbs raw weight) and ditch the vegetables as well. 100-200g of liver per week is a good target. Eat egg yolks but not the whites. You're gonna be gassy with the tubers due to the fiber/resistant starch, but it's better than explosive diarrhea. Skip the fasting as well, since it's not at all necessary. Good luck.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:51 PM

Well... aren't tubers kinda/sorta non-paleo? And a diet of meat/potatoes are non-Atkins? No veggies at all? Fasting has been my tool to try and create a caloric deficit... seems to work for hordes of folks and I seemed to be blowing up eating three meals/day. Fasting, I've stopped the air going into said balloon, and have stabilized.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:24 PM

Nicely prescriptive.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 01:41 AM

Tried to add this comment earlier, but for some reason, I don't see it here. If I'm in an energy balance, doesn't that mean I'll lose no weight at all? The way to lose stored fat is to eat under BMR?

Medium avatar

(39821)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:56 PM

Piles of tropical HGs eat piles of tuber, man. The bulk of hominin evolution involved their consumption. They're a highly nutritious form of starch. 2 lbs raw weight of sweet potato is only like 150g of carbs if you're concerned about that. Nice and bulky for satiety as well. The key is energy balance. You struggles creating a deficit with what you're doing, so now try tubers and lean meat.

3
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on January 05, 2012
at 03:54 PM

Sounds like you made an extreme change from vegan to mostly carnivore and your gut bacteria didn't know what to do with the new food. It might be wise to shift to a more plant-based paleo diet and gradually add in meat and fish.

Also food sensitivities to ANYTHING are possible, including meat, cabbage, and all kinds of other things. You might try cutting out meat for a bit and seeing what happens and eating fish instead (or vice versa). A good probiotic might also help.

Fasting is another thing that causes bowel weirdness in some people. Bowel inflammation can also be caused by the sudden disruption of SCFA (short chain fatty acid) production, which are primarily fueled by all the fiber-rich plants in your old diet. Lucas Tafur has theorized that the gut bacteria population will eventually adjust to making SCFA another way, but maybe it doesn't work for eveyryone.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on January 05, 2012
at 07:14 PM

Why low carb? I never get low-carb flu because I eat a moderate amount of carbs (100 grams or so a day). I just don't see what low-carb will do for you.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on January 06, 2012
at 08:10 PM

Unfortunately that doesn't always work. http://paleohacks.com/questions/22035/getting-leaner-with-starch

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:40 PM

So, you're suggesting that perhaps I ease up on the meat, add in some veggies for fiber, and eventually, my gut will catch up? I can deal with that... just don't want to get stuck in a yo-yo routine of being low carb/high carb and having those "low carb flu" symptoms perennially floating around. It's the pits!

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 07:09 PM

Well, based on the literature I've read, the surefire way to eliminate visceral belly fat is by getting as low on the carbs as possible, hitting ketosis, and using that stored fat as fuel. The higher the carbs, the less fat burned... Seems to be a pretty ubiquitous suggestion among the ancestral community.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 11:42 PM

Thank you, Melissa! I wonder if I'm healthy enough yet to add those in... guess I'll just have to play with it.

3
724ba4f39f7bbea7f74b45c0a79615f2

on January 05, 2012
at 01:30 PM

It could be simply that you replaced grains/oats/corn with vegetables that are giving you trouble. Actually, most people who aren't used to eating a lot of veggies and suddenly take up raw cabbage and cooked onions are going to have some digestive issues.

I don't know what you were eating as a vegan, whether it was a whole foods diet of mostly vegetables, or if it was primarily fruit and soydogs, but if it's the latter, then you really are transitioning and it's not "paleo" that's making you sick, it's just that you need to grow some gut bacteria so you can digest veggies, and this is something you'd want to do whether you were vegan or not. Take some probiotics, eat some yogurt, avoid troublesome veggies for a time (broccoli, cauliflower, garlic, onions, etc.).

It could be the meat, people always say that vegans lose some meat-digesting enzyme and eating meat becomes nigh impossible. But as a vegan for many years and a vegetarian for many many more, when I suddenly started snarfing down the meat, there wasn't a problem at all, and you were only doing it for a few months, so I doubt it's that.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:53 PM

As much as I'd love to say I was the perfect vegan, I will admit that a bunch of my food came from those strange meat analogues. Boca burgers, tempeh stir frys, "chic'n" strips, etc... I did get my salads in, but the mock meats were pretty prevalent in my diet. Looking back, I felt pretty OK for the first 4-5 months on a vegan diet, then started feeling icky (hence switching to a paleo diet). Perhaps I'm just expecting my body to adapt faster than it wants to? I dunno... just a bit frustrating. But I do think that more veggies will help, as well as fermented food stuffs.

3
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:46 AM

I wonder if you are low on Vitamin D?

685e3c967e63b4eacccf02628fd9a3ac

(1026)

on January 05, 2012
at 09:04 AM

I would definitely take D3. I read about D3 lots of times last year, but I always said to myself "I get enough sun, my d3 will be fine". Until I saw the extreme deficiency on my blood test.

1dda08efb8ba98e9128fdef038153227

(120)

on January 05, 2012
at 03:23 PM

I came to Paleo vegan and suffering from IBS at the time. The IBS is opposite of your situation. It seemed to clear up very quickly, but I would still have bouts here and there. Once I started taking Vitamin D3 5000 IU once a day it cleared up. I've been doing that for a month and haven't had problems with it. I am still looking for that balance where I don't have to take supplements, but it seems I would have to eat more food than I am now and that may be virtually impossible for me.

0df0b1c6ae16bbb75b4a5efa3d876765

(2240)

on January 05, 2012
at 11:03 AM

Agreed. I live in FL but no matter how hard I tried to get out in the sun more during my first two months, stuff always seemed to come up that kept me indoors or had me outside late afternoon/early evening. I'm more into the idea of trying to get all of my nutrition from food (which is why I've started eating liver and heart for the first time in my life), but I did start supplementing with D3 after 6 weeks into it. Now I'm also considering having calcium, magnesium, and K2 supplements on hand for occasional (not daily) supp'ing.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:02 AM

I can't imagine I'd be any lower now than how I was previously eating... Unless dumping grains has left nutrients out of my diet. Never had these issues before paleo. I suppose it could be possible, though.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:20 AM

It is easy to get low on Vitamin D unless you live in a sunny place. Many Paleo Hackers suplement with D3. SAD dieters get Vitamin D in fortified foods.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on January 05, 2012
at 04:19 PM

Agree. You liklely need magnesium & K, too. More info on D here: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:41 AM

Good to know... D3. Will look into it. Thanks!

2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 05, 2012
at 03:20 PM

I would stop the IF and adopt the Dr. Jack Kruse Leptin Rx. Inappropriate sweating might be a cortisol issue and IF can give you wacky cortisol issues. You eat the same food and macros but change the timing of your meals. I also agree with more beef/lamb less pork.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 05, 2012
at 05:23 PM

down votes...thanks-not. Why does Dr. Jack get under your skin so much? He is helping ppl. His ideas have helped me tremendously. Spend your time helping ppl with your ideas!

2
19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 05, 2012
at 02:50 PM

If you were vegan I can see you needing some help to digest meat.

  • Chew your food (specially meat) until it's a pulp (completely unrecognizable) in your mouth.
  • Try drinking homemade bone stock when you eat meat. If you don't have a crockpot, make chicken stock overnight while asleep.
  • Eat more fat, but add it slowly (maybe less protein, since I see you're not eating a lot of carbs).
  • I assume your vegetables are well cooked? If not, they should be. And oh boy, unless you're eating liver and other offal, cooked rare, you need a hell of a lot more vegetables in your diet!

By the way, why are you IFing if you get hungry? That's no good. Eat if you're hungry.
Speaking of IF, I love IF, however, in your case, I would suggest something different: eat smaller meals throughout the day (no, no, no, just listen), whatever amount of meat you eat right now, split it up into smaller meals throughout the day. If this helps your digestion get better, then try less and less meals daily, and see how you do.

About health issues: are you taking any vitamin D3? It's irrelevant if you felt this way while eating vegan. Where are you from, is it Winter right now? Take your vitamin D3 (at the very least 5000 ui a day).

Any chance you're hypothyroid (even with normal labs)? Sweating, brain fog, constipation, no weight loss..!

If you eat any of these vegetables often: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=47 then remove them and see if you'll get better (but you'll probably still need to take thyroid hormones, if you are hypothyroid). Or, make sure they are super, super well cooked.

Edit: To answer your question, yes Paleo is for everyone. We are omnivorous, we can eat meat and vegetables. Some people might choose certain things (fish vs meat for example, certain vegetables vs another ones, or even ignore vegetables if they eat a good variety of offal on a frequent basis) and some people might need to eliminate certain things (eggs due to allergy, avoiding goitrogens due to hypothyroid), it may vary by age and gender (lots of fat for growing children and pregnant/nursing women), but the basic principle stands. It's for all humans.

Now if you want a fight between Paleo and Veganism (I'm not saying you do, just putting that out there), then Paleo wins, you simply cannot be a Vegan without modern intervention like B12 vitamins in a pill, and Vitamin A and D from animal sources. Vitamin A from vegetables is not the same thing. And while your body can make vitamin D from sun exposure, it's not enough. I've also noticed that most vegans eat very low-fat, and fat (specially animal) is necessary for good nutrient absorption. For example, eating vegetables with bacon fat or butter is better than just eating those vegetables alone.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:44 PM

These are all great tips - thank you! I don't eat that many vegetables now, and when I do, it's basically a salad. Romaine lettuce, spinach, etc... I have had a few plates of brussels sprouts, a little broccoli, have made some kale chips... but that's about all. Re: fasting – I'm doing it to lose fat (main reason I adopted this diet... basically eliminating breakfast). Just wasn't seeing results eating eggs/bacon for breakfast, something meaty for lunch, more meat for dinner. And to correct you, I'm actually *never* hungry, and fasting is a breeze eating this way. I literally never have pangs.

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:24 PM

What do you think about the hypothyroid thing? I hate to jump to conclusions but your symptoms seem to have more to do with Hypo than Paleo.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 06:45 PM

(which actually kind of scares me a little bit...). I even did a 30+ hour fast recently, and I didn't have a single rumble in my stomach. I really lacked energy and my brain was moving in slow motion, but not a hunger pang to be found. I ate just because my energy was so low, but not because my stomach couldn't handle another minute without food. Normal?

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:24 PM

Ok, I was wondering about the fasting because you said "without many hunger pangs", so I assumed you had them. When I fast I don't have any hunger pants, if I do, I stop and eat. Yeah, your fasting seems like what happens to me, I'm not hungry at all, but eventually say "OK, that's enough... there's no contest; go eat something".

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 07:10 PM

OK, will do. Doubt doing another blood test a week later would be recommended by my doc... but you never know.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 04:02 PM

Yeah, I was going to ask how I'd even go about testing that if it were the case. Will take a look and let you know!

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:26 PM

Note I don't endorse this website (I haven't read it besides that page), I'm just listing it so you see hypothyroid symptoms in men, and if you have other symptoms in that list. Like I said, I hate to jump to conclusions, but I don't even know you and I'm anxious :P http://myhypothyroidismnaturaltreatment.com/thyroid_symptoms_in_men/

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:41 PM

Longer list of symptoms http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/long-and-pathetic/

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:40 PM

Does this help, George? http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labwork/ Your doctor will probably test only TSH, so **make sure** he also gets you: FREE T4 and FREE T3, REVERSE T3, and Thyroid Antibodies (2 different tests). So you get blood drawn once and you get these 6 results.

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:42 PM

With Hypothyroid you can get many dangerous health problems, no matter how good your diet and exercise is. So please look into it, because from your post, you're doing everything right, and you still feel awful.

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 06, 2012
at 09:53 PM

You said the blood tests 1 week ago were for something unrelated? This is something else, so I don't see why he'd be upset about it. It's not like you have to go to his office, tell his nurse what you want, and the nurse and s/he can mail you the papers you need to go get your blood drawn. It's really simple. If he's a jackass about it, you can do it online (same procedure except the paperwork comes directly from the Lab, not from your doctor).

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:28 PM

You could even have Hypo and not have many symptoms because you eat Paleo (I have Hyperthyroid, asymptomatic because of Paleo), but with Hypo you must get medication!

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:47 PM

Thank you! I just had blood drawn for an unrelated thing about 1 week ago... they emailed me the results, but I think they were looking for other things. Is it possible to ask them to take a look at that same blood to test for these as well?

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 06, 2012
at 06:12 PM

I imagine they discard the blood it to be honest, but you could call a nurse and ask.

19acef0aed67ef8dc1118d8e74edb349

(2954)

on January 06, 2012
at 09:54 PM

You said the blood tests 1 week ago were for something unrelated? This is something else, so I don't see why he'd be upset about it. It's not like you have to go to his office. All you need to do is tell his nurse what you want, and s/he can mail you the papers you need to go get your blood drawn. It's really simple. If he's a jackass about it, you can do it online (same procedure except the paperwork comes directly from the Lab, not from your doctor).

2
Bfa1c9eacfc94a1b62f3a39b574480c6

(3700)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:19 AM

I believe a gut makeover is needed. GAPS diet, perhaps?

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:43 AM

Gaps diet? I'm more of a Banana Republic guy, personally. Kidding, but if you could shed some light, I'd be very appreciative!

Bfa1c9eacfc94a1b62f3a39b574480c6

(3700)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:09 PM

It's the gut and psychology syndrome diet proposed by Dr. Natasha Campbell Mcbride. Chris Kresser also has a version of it on his site as well, but basically, it's a diet that allows the gut lining to heal so you don't have a compromised gut barrier/flora, and then one can start adding certain foods back in. Usually GAPS is used when someone is reacting to multiple foods that shouldn't be reacted to.

1
013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

on January 05, 2012
at 11:15 PM

@James (sorry... too big a reply to fit in a comment)

1) What is your goal? Lose weight? Be healthier? What's your starting point? <-- I'm already pretty healthy. Had blood work done recently, and all is perfect. Trying desperately to shed the same visceral stomach fat I've had since I was a kid.

2) You say you were vegan 7 months, paleo 4 months. What were you before? Standard American Diet? Vegetarian? Why did you switch to vegan? The hormonal problems? Or did that come after being vegan? <-- It's hard to say I was on the SAD diet because I never really ate junk, but there were no holds barred with other food items. Tortillas, bread, grains, beer, etc... all was A-OK. Would indulge in the occasional cupcake/pastry from time to time as well.

3) Bowel movements. You're not going to have the same number of bowel movements on a high meat diet like you're on. That's normal. All those bowel movements before with vegan was because of all that undigestible stuff you were eating+bacteria. You're digesting almost everything now and don't have as much gut flora. The constipation you are having could be lack of magnesium, so that's something you might want to look at. Also add more fats, or put more vegetables in your diet to get the fiber. <-- I have trouble with figuring out what kinds of fats to add... I mean, should one be spooning lard?

4) Gaining weight. Have you checked your bodyfat? There was an overfeeding study (so not 100% applicable) in JAMA recently http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/307/1/47.short where people were given varying amounts of protein. Low protein gained more fat, lost lean body mass, and lost weight overall. "High" protein gained substantially more lean body mass, gained more fat and gained weight overall. Extrapolating this for you, you could be staying the same/gaining weight, but because it's lean body mass vs fat. Looking only at the scale, you think you're not improving, but you're actually doing good. <-- Haven't jumped on a scale in about 3 weeks, but based on the circumference of my waist, I've gained three inches since going Paleo.

5) Sweat. As others have mentioned, this is actually normal. You're supposed to sweat a lot. It's really only in the modern era that people think it's a bad thing. Mainly due to marketing (buy our product now!). I wear undershirts more now, and avoid shirts that highlight it. <-- it's tough for me to accept this... like, I have to always wear black to cover up the insane amount of sweat?! Das crazy!

6) Brain Fog. This could be lack of carbs, maybe push it up a bit with sweet potatoes and the like. Usually the brain switches over to ketones for a big chunk, and that should go away, but you could just need more carbs in your diet. Or you could be sabotaging yourself with the booze (paleo accepted or not, it does interfere with fat burning when in ketosis). <-- yeah, I know this is something I could cut down on, but it's complicated... I work a lifestyle job and it's really hard to avoid. But when I was vegan/eating "normal" and drinking before, these symptoms didn't exist. With my prior was of eating, alcohol was always present.

7) IF. Why are you IF'ing? This leads back to #1, what your goals are. In general, you want to do one thing at a time. Switch to paleo, see how things work out, then do IF'ing. If you do a ton of different things at once, you don't know what's helping and what's hurting. <-- Did the paleo thing, did nothing but blow up... that was for about 3 months. So I decided to give IFing a try, and it basically stopped the steady rise to fat pants.

E05b8d2c9ae8a9a92341785f342f131d

(346)

on January 06, 2012
at 03:30 PM

Maybe you could add this as an update to your question. It's a bit confusing as an answer.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:45 PM

Done, and done. It's in the original post. Hope it's clear enough this time.

1
Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 05, 2012
at 11:09 AM

I'd say that you should perhaps allow yourself more time to adjust without worrying about the cosmetic affects. If you were super-lean then gaining a bit of fat right now won't kill you - if you sure it's fat you're gaining? Just concentrate on getting your body up to speed, possibly actually eat more, the broths, fermented stuff, nutrient dense organs and veg. Once you're digestion settles down, you can start looking sensibly at how the diet is affecting other things - but until then it's not really a fair comparison. It should get easier.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:21 PM

Gain weight perhaps but not necessarily fat. And I don't believe you'll sustain absorbing 1000 calories excess while constipated. Either way, a couple of months of eating paleo foods without stressing about it is not going to make you obese.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:08 PM

Thanks for the tip, Andy! I'm just afraid that if I go crazy and eat over my BMR, I'll balloon up. I understand how it's not as simple as calories in/calories out... but it's basic science that if I'm eating 1,000 of calories from protein/fat than what my body needs to operate, I'll gain weight.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:50 PM

Gotcha... it's just, observationally, I've definitely gained legitimate fat since starting this paleo thing. Noticeably bigger love handles, clothes not fitting as well, etc... While I do see a change in my muscular structure w/o doing any weight training to speak of, I've definitely packed on fat, and I can't say I've been going crazy on anything that could cause this (nuts, for example). Just eating paleo foods, usually three square meals (before I started IF where I have about 2 and a small snack), and it's caused noticeable fat accumulation.

0
5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 05, 2012
at 08:15 PM

My thoughts in no particular order.

1) What is your goal? Lose weight? Be healthier? What's your starting point?

2) You say you were vegan 7 months, paleo 4 months. What were you before? Standard American Diet? Vegetarian? Why did you switch to vegan? The hormonal problems? Or did that come after being vegan?

3) Bowel movements. You're not going to have the same number of bowel movements on a high meat diet like you're on. That's normal. All those bowel movements before with vegan was because of all that undigestible stuff you were eating+bacteria. You're digesting almost everything now and don't have as much gut flora. The constipation you are having could be lack of magnesium, so that's something you might want to look at. Also add more fats, or put more vegetables in your diet to get the fiber.

4) Gaining weight. Have you checked your bodyfat? There was an overfeeding study (so not 100% applicable) in JAMA recently http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/307/1/47.short where people were given varying amounts of protein. Low protein gained more fat, lost lean body mass, and lost weight overall. "High" protein gained substantially more lean body mass, gained more fat and gained weight overall. Extrapolating this for you, you could be staying the same/gaining weight, but because it's lean body mass vs fat. Looking only at the scale, you think you're not improving, but you're actually doing good.

5) Sweat. As others have mentioned, this is actually normal. You're supposed to sweat a lot. It's really only in the modern era that people think it's a bad thing. Mainly due to marketing (buy our product now!). I wear undershirts more now, and avoid shirts that highlight it. :)

6) Brain Fog. This could be lack of carbs, maybe push it up a bit with sweet potatoes and the like. Usually the brain switches over to ketones for a big chunk, and that should go away, but you could just need more carbs in your diet. Or you could be sabotaging yourself with the booze (paleo accepted or not, it does interfere with fat burning when in ketosis).

7) IF. Why are you IF'ing? This leads back to #1, what your goals are. In general, you want to do one thing at a time. Switch to paleo, see how things work out, then do IF'ing. If you do a ton of different things at once, you don't know what's helping and what's hurting.

edit - looks like some of these are answered in the other posts after I did this, so you can disregard them as needed. :)

0
81cf1892bafcdfa38779f4b9b488198d

(606)

on January 05, 2012
at 05:32 PM

Blockquote

I can count on one hand how many normal bowel movements I've had since starting the diet. I'll go 3-4 days without so much as an inkling to go #2, then I'll either be completely constipated, or I'll have to make an Usain Bolt-esque emergency sprint to the toilet to make sure I don't have an accident in public. If digestion is any indication, I'm as unhealthy as they come.

I've not lost a single pound, and in fact, I've done nothing but get bigger

Blockquote

  1. I've been on Paleo for 4 monthes and I've never had an issue with not being able to have a bowel movement. It's like clock work since changing to the Paleo lifestyle.

  2. You say you haven't lost a single pound. Are you exercising? If you are trying to lose weight than you have to do something other than eat less. If you are I didn't notice it in your question.

013c756670ee6e1456893b5c335fccac

(165)

on January 05, 2012
at 07:06 PM

I usually exercise about 5 days a week, but in December/early January, I've probably exercised about 5 days total. Combo of being busy, holidays, etc... While exercising, I didn't lose any weight, but I suppose a bit of good news is that while not being in the gym nearly as much, I haven't noticeably ballooned either. I live in San Francisco and walk upwards of 4 miles a day and bike constantly, so even though I'm not in a gym, I'm still active. But yeah... the bowel movements are unreal. Unlike anything I've ever experienced.

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