2

votes

How to get what you want from your current doctor regarding Paleo....? Suggestions?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 01, 2011 at 1:36 PM

I think the best way for people to motivate their own docs is to show them up close and personal how they changed their metabolism and blood work. Once you do that gift a book to help spur them to read more. Once you spark their curiosity then you may be able to create a physician that you can then build a great relationship with for many years. That is exactly how I did it and I think it works because it is not confrontational. Morevoer,if the doc does not evolve you will know and then you can move on to finding the someone who is not dogmatic and more willing to come off the dogma that is medicine in the US.

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on March 24, 2011
at 03:02 AM

Great thread. I've been trying to convince my mother to go paleo (a couple of her ailments: type II diabetes, breast cancer survivor, thyroid problems, memory issues, fatigue, it goes on ...). She mentioned paleo to her doctor and he scoffed, thought I should 'look into it more'. -.- Um, frankly I have. But, she still is keen on listening to me (I want to be a doctor myself) and is 'thinking' about slowly riding herself of grains. Okay ... sorry for that rant. Long story short, thanks for starting a good thread. :D

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 08, 2011
at 03:21 AM

I consider many of the practitioners I see Doctors even though they are not traditional MD's. It can be depressing to keep investing time and money in failed experiments with different practitioners who have all kinds of bias and opinions about what is healthy and not healthy. Working with patients is an art and the most knowledgeable practitioner can still be arrogant, and closed to patients trying to "dictate" their own care. It may not be as simple as the car analogy, but it's important to listen to your gut when working with a new doctor, and to move on if there is no dialog or connection.

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on March 02, 2011
at 02:28 PM

@Dr. K: I find your comment irresponsible especially coming from a healthcare provider. The doctor-patient relationship is a relationship. The patient should find a doctor with whom he 'vibes' not shop around until he finds an obedient lap dog. Your body is not a car!

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on March 02, 2011
at 02:26 PM

@Dr. K: You frequently say things without context are meaningless. What do you mean by that?

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on March 02, 2011
at 02:24 PM

@Dr. K: Science doesn't give absolute knowledge. The scientific facts of one generation are frequently disproven by the next. Therefore, the medical establishment is reticent to change standards until well after it is blindingly obvious to do so. Sometimes statins don't harm. Sometimes they do.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on March 02, 2011
at 03:03 AM

you the patient dictate your care more than you think. If you want a red lexus and they try to sell you a black one because that is all they have to do you stay there or move on? Its not any different with docs. The only difference is that they maybe harder to find but trust me they are out there. It matters a lot because it is your life in the balance.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on March 02, 2011
at 03:00 AM

Docs cant bend to flawed standards. Science should dictate what we do.....not standards or the flawed new concept "evidence based medicine" I think if you write a Rx for stating to a TC of 220 and TG of 50 and LDL say of 145.....you should be brought up for malpractice. But this is preciselythe standard we have in the US. A doctor is bound to not harm the patient. Giving a statin harms the patient regardless of the cholesterol policy of the dogma. Standards are not the law. They are guidelines without context.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on March 01, 2011
at 06:26 PM

I'll see my doctor in about 1 week and I'm thinking about taking the very approach you describe. I hope he'll be open minded about it. The last time I saw him, I told him that the low-fat-high-carb mantra was nonsense and he agreed, so I think there's some hope. He's also a professor of medicine, so I would think he would at least entertain the science.

  • Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

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3 Answers

1
Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

on March 01, 2011
at 03:48 PM

You are asking a very good question but the answer is, as you know very complex. Some doctors are totally closed to whatever the patient has to say in terms of science or interpretation, if they feel even slightly challenged professionally. Say you go to a doctor that believes (as so many of them still do) that your main cardiovascular risk factor is total cholesterol, and you tell him that you have this amazing diet that made you loose so much overweight and feel great BUT your tc has increased some forty percent, and he will advise you to change your diet, then you say no, then you will need a new doctor! With the vast majority of doctors that is my experience: they are not interested to be taught science, be it nutrition, cardio, diabetes, neurology, you name it by a patient! Perhaps you are more lucky, since you are a doctor, and they will be open to listen to you...

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on March 02, 2011
at 03:03 AM

you the patient dictate your care more than you think. If you want a red lexus and they try to sell you a black one because that is all they have to do you stay there or move on? Its not any different with docs. The only difference is that they maybe harder to find but trust me they are out there. It matters a lot because it is your life in the balance.

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on March 02, 2011
at 02:28 PM

@Dr. K: I find your comment irresponsible especially coming from a healthcare provider. The doctor-patient relationship is a relationship. The patient should find a doctor with whom he 'vibes' not shop around until he finds an obedient lap dog. Your body is not a car!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 08, 2011
at 03:21 AM

I consider many of the practitioners I see Doctors even though they are not traditional MD's. It can be depressing to keep investing time and money in failed experiments with different practitioners who have all kinds of bias and opinions about what is healthy and not healthy. Working with patients is an art and the most knowledgeable practitioner can still be arrogant, and closed to patients trying to "dictate" their own care. It may not be as simple as the car analogy, but it's important to listen to your gut when working with a new doctor, and to move on if there is no dialog or connection.

1
4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on March 01, 2011
at 03:04 PM

Hi Dr.K,

Your profile indicates that you are a practicing doctor and so you know that doctors are ethically and legally obligated to give all patients a certain standard of care. Undoubtedly the process that creates those standards is flawed. But, if a physician doesn't follow those standards either by violating (misfeasance, malfeasance) them or not fulfilling them (nonfeasance), he is legally liable should that treatment fail.

Medicine is conservative when it comes to changing practice not only because of vested interests but also because (as Holmes noted) "there is nothing so dangerous as an obvious fact." There is a difference between being dogmatic and being cautious. Adopting faulty policies on a nationwide scale would be disastrous- witness the SAD. But, without the right types of proof, there's no reason for policymakers to endorse anything else.

I fully advocate that patients find a doctor with whom they connect and feel free to share this information. However, the knowledge and practice of medicine take years of study and apprenticeship to learn. Even armed with book knowledge, only with actually caring for patients does one understand how much the patients don't read the textbooks to find out what their symptoms should be.

Mike

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on March 02, 2011
at 03:00 AM

Docs cant bend to flawed standards. Science should dictate what we do.....not standards or the flawed new concept "evidence based medicine" I think if you write a Rx for stating to a TC of 220 and TG of 50 and LDL say of 145.....you should be brought up for malpractice. But this is preciselythe standard we have in the US. A doctor is bound to not harm the patient. Giving a statin harms the patient regardless of the cholesterol policy of the dogma. Standards are not the law. They are guidelines without context.

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on March 02, 2011
at 02:26 PM

@Dr. K: You frequently say things without context are meaningless. What do you mean by that?

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on March 02, 2011
at 02:24 PM

@Dr. K: Science doesn't give absolute knowledge. The scientific facts of one generation are frequently disproven by the next. Therefore, the medical establishment is reticent to change standards until well after it is blindingly obvious to do so. Sometimes statins don't harm. Sometimes they do.

0
39a1a0bc7855c084ac59df60fdf9c0dd

(1505)

on March 15, 2011
at 07:30 PM

Your question is a good one. I, personally, have given up. I recently had nearly miraculous changes in my labs in less than 90 days, and all he could talk about was my total chol - even though that dropped by more than 35 points in 75 days! Everytime I tell him what I'm eating all he can do is repeat the standard mantra about how I'm harming myself, even though I've had a health transformation in a very short period of time.

Someone above mentioned the "standard of care," and I think it comes down to that. It's almost like they have an "if/then" spreadsheet and just move from one box to the next without actually observing the patient and the data in front of them.

For my cholesterol that was above 280 a short time ago and now is in the 240's (with a significant increase in HDL), my doc wants to slap me on a statin. When I asked him for even one study of statins being effective for anyone but men under 65 who have had at least one heart attack, he responded, "there is no one with any medical knowledge who would argue that you should be on a statin." That was his response; he just glossed over my request for evidence. This is someone who is a part-time professor at one of the nation's top-rated medical schools.

So, I go to him to perform tests and take everything he says as one man's opinion, and then I decide for myself what I want to do.

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