3

votes

What could we be wrong about?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created September 17, 2011 at 5:16 PM

Is there anything in paleo land that we could possibly be totally wrong about or at least partially misinterpreting the data on? Do you see any commonly mistaken beliefs among paleo hackers?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on September 18, 2011
at 12:50 AM

It's not a lot of calories, it's true. The net increase is something like 50 calories per mile for my weight, however that amount is obviously greater for larger people.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on September 17, 2011
at 09:33 PM

I'm with Travis. I suspect that the lots of walking is beneficial more from the signals it sends than more than the calories burned per se.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 17, 2011
at 08:17 PM

That is exactly where E2 seems to show up with the greatest frequency.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 07:47 PM

I agree, it seems like when sickness hits one, it hits fast and hard and you really have no idea what causes it at first.

Db4ad76f6f307a6f577e175710049172

(2297)

on September 17, 2011
at 07:38 PM

Probably in populations with high incidence of grain dependence. I'd hazard a guess at Indian, and those around the Fertile Crescent (Middle East I guess).

Medium avatar

(39831)

on September 17, 2011
at 07:08 PM

I think there is a substantial contingent of paleos who do no exercise but dutifully eat their bacon and lose no fat. I also think that most people would be better off if they ditched weight training, crossfit and sprinting and just walked as much as possible per day. I see it all the time when people respond to someone's fat loss stall with either "lower carbs" or "start doing sprints" or some kind of insanity like that. Walking is time-consuming, but there's little risk of injury and it's highly effective for fat loss.

3432683fc74c2d2a40efe1e8f16ac1f6

(1130)

on September 17, 2011
at 06:50 PM

Regarding low-intensity exercises: At least walking is emphasised (Sisson, Wolf). Or, what other kinds of low-intensity exercises do you mean?

3432683fc74c2d2a40efe1e8f16ac1f6

(1130)

on September 17, 2011
at 06:49 PM

>> We're also wrong about how little emphasis we put on low-intensity exercise as a means to achieve a reduction in body fat. But at least walking is emphasised (Sisson, Wolf). Or what other kinds of low-intensity exercises do you mean?

F1b82cc7e6d90384ad30007dd6c1b9e3

(1187)

on September 17, 2011
at 06:40 PM

they are probably younger and stress hasn't accumulated enough yet to cause harm

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3

(7540)

on September 17, 2011
at 06:39 PM

+1 to all of this and especially the first paragraph, I really don't know how people got the idea that consuming tablespoons and tablespoons of butter/CO by itself will magically lead to fat loss.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 06:31 PM

who are you writing this to?

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6 Answers

11
Medium avatar

on September 17, 2011
at 05:50 PM

Regarding fat loss, we're definitely wrong about long-chain fatty acids not being stored in adipocytes, and especially wrong about the idea that consuming them itself leads to fat loss. We're also wrong about how little emphasis we put on low-intensity exercise as a means to achieve a reduction in body fat.

Taubes seems to have gotten people to understand how to lower insulin and therefore decrease the extent to which fatty acid release from adipocytes is impeded, but we have overlooked the fact that 1) those fatty acids are readily reincorporated into other adipocytes if they are not oxidized and 2) consuming huge amounts of fats has the very real potential to either replace those fatty acids that have been oxidized or cause a net storage gain.

Diets that are very high in non-toxic fats are best for overall health, but it's very easy to overshoot what is being oxidized, especially if one is less active. If weight loss stalls on a very high fat diet, I recommend incrementally decreasing fat (and replacing it with lean meat) and/or increasing low-intensity activity.

I fear that we've turned our bodies' energy accounting into a black box and that we need to remain fully aware of the mechanisms and processes actually involved in body fat reduction:

1) Lower insulin
2) Release the fat from the adipocytes
3) Oxidize it in muscle mitochondria
4) Don't deposit more in the adipocytes than you oxidized.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on September 17, 2011
at 09:33 PM

I'm with Travis. I suspect that the lots of walking is beneficial more from the signals it sends than more than the calories burned per se.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on September 18, 2011
at 12:50 AM

It's not a lot of calories, it's true. The net increase is something like 50 calories per mile for my weight, however that amount is obviously greater for larger people.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on September 17, 2011
at 07:08 PM

I think there is a substantial contingent of paleos who do no exercise but dutifully eat their bacon and lose no fat. I also think that most people would be better off if they ditched weight training, crossfit and sprinting and just walked as much as possible per day. I see it all the time when people respond to someone's fat loss stall with either "lower carbs" or "start doing sprints" or some kind of insanity like that. Walking is time-consuming, but there's little risk of injury and it's highly effective for fat loss.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 06:31 PM

who are you writing this to?

3432683fc74c2d2a40efe1e8f16ac1f6

(1130)

on September 17, 2011
at 06:50 PM

Regarding low-intensity exercises: At least walking is emphasised (Sisson, Wolf). Or, what other kinds of low-intensity exercises do you mean?

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3

(7540)

on September 17, 2011
at 06:39 PM

+1 to all of this and especially the first paragraph, I really don't know how people got the idea that consuming tablespoons and tablespoons of butter/CO by itself will magically lead to fat loss.

3432683fc74c2d2a40efe1e8f16ac1f6

(1130)

on September 17, 2011
at 06:49 PM

>> We're also wrong about how little emphasis we put on low-intensity exercise as a means to achieve a reduction in body fat. But at least walking is emphasised (Sisson, Wolf). Or what other kinds of low-intensity exercises do you mean?

3
6b365c14c646462210f3ef6b6fecace1

(1784)

on September 17, 2011
at 05:26 PM

I'm actually not too worried about any "incorrect" concepts we are currently upholding because the effects will eventually manifest - and we'll share our experiences here or wherever in hopes of getting an explanation and hopefully a solution.

we could be wrong about everything for all i know, but it's kinda awesome how we're experimenting and tweaking and readjusting our lifestyles in the search for ultimate health.

2
74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

on September 17, 2011
at 05:50 PM

I would think we will find out that we were "wrong" about a good amount. I would think we will be correct about the major stuff (e.g. saturated fat does not heart disease, fructose is a dose dependent hepatoxin,vegetable oils are awful.) Science evolves and the quantified self approach will probably yield tweaks to how we exercise, eat and live.

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 06:33 PM

Great question! You see healthy happy people all the time eating SAD.

F1b82cc7e6d90384ad30007dd6c1b9e3

(1187)

on September 17, 2011
at 06:40 PM

they are probably younger and stress hasn't accumulated enough yet to cause harm

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 17, 2011
at 07:47 PM

I agree, it seems like when sickness hits one, it hits fast and hard and you really have no idea what causes it at first.

1
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 17, 2011
at 05:53 PM

I'm starting to wonder if there may be some grain-adapted people out there in light of what I read here about the Apo E2 allele: http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.com/2011/06/ancestral-allele-apoe4-super-brain.html

Certainly not definitive, but food for thought.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 17, 2011
at 08:17 PM

That is exactly where E2 seems to show up with the greatest frequency.

Db4ad76f6f307a6f577e175710049172

(2297)

on September 17, 2011
at 07:38 PM

Probably in populations with high incidence of grain dependence. I'd hazard a guess at Indian, and those around the Fertile Crescent (Middle East I guess).

0
C8253d9610402729148604bd9235fc24

on September 17, 2011
at 07:24 PM

Yup, I think you've hit on a big one. I dramatically increased my fats and protein and while my chronic fatigue went away, along with other usual Paleo claims, I have gained weight! I went from 139 to 143. I'd regained muscle mass early on as I had wasted away on chronic cardio, but just how much muscle does one regain without weights. When the incapacitating CF hit a few yrs ago, I stoped running and walked minutes at a time. Since going Paleo 1/1/11, I've been able to hike for 1-2 hrs at a time without set backs. I've done 7-8 of Sisson's beginner workouts and see definition. Just reading McDuff's book now and realize I was missing the whole mitochondria thing, depletion.... So to lose wt, I think I need to lower dairy (aka fat) and now do workouts to fatigue which I hadn't been doing. I'm very afraid to lower fat though, because I notice such a huge difference in hunger and energy when I try. Feel kinda stuck, but willing to tweak tweak tweak. Started reading Kruse's leptin stuff - that may help me too as I drink breakfast (cofee/cream) everyday and probably should eat if I'm adrenal fatigued. Love this site! You guys rock.

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