10

votes

What if Paleo was just a big fat lie? N3:N6 and phytic acid really relevant?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created May 05, 2012 at 3:01 AM

I'm about 2 months into Paleo, and am really enjoying.

However, I was just wondering:

What if all the benefits are simply from eating lower carb, whole foods?

What if all this talk of omega 3 to omega 6 ratios, any phytic acid is not relevant to the favorable results?

If you tell someone to eat low carb, and only drink water out of Styrofoam cups, they will lose weight. However, the part about the Styrofoam is not relevant.

How does anyone know what portion of the paleo diet is the portion that is effective?

So, I guess my question is: are there folks here who haven't drunk all the Koolaid and simply eat lower carb, without worrying about grass fed meat & commercial seed oils, etc.

Just wondering, Thanks, Mike

F31d10b54b31428e189d9b771bf7b1d1

(1439)

on June 20, 2012
at 05:20 PM

Matt, that is a profoundly stupid thing to say. It is easy and stupid to deny the validity of other people's experience.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 09, 2012
at 07:27 PM

If phytates are suppressive of colon cancer, then heavy red meat eaters like paleos will improve their longevity by eating them.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 09, 2012
at 06:52 PM

to continue @paleovenus, it's not too hard to find references to health benefits from eating phytates, such as the following: http://www.phytochemicals.info/abstracts/phytic-acid-benefits.php This is not some quacky fad stuff from a health blog, but peer-reviewed papers on a suppressing effect on colon cancer. If true, one would expect that phytates could extend the lives of many people.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 09, 2012
at 05:46 PM

@paleovenus please cite the research studies that support long term health benefits from not eating phytic acid and optimizing n3:n6 ratio. Human population studies (such as Framingham) normally take several generations to yield significant correlations.

E7adfe31507efb7c935f618a829f56d6

(1507)

on May 09, 2012
at 03:06 PM

Define "effective." The n3:n6 and phytic acid are less directly correlated with weight loss and more with long-term health. As you point out, you can still lose weight without worrying about these elements of Paleo, but you won't reap the same long-term health benefits supported by research.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 08, 2012
at 08:01 AM

I've never heard of gluten cravings either. Gluten gives frenc bread its stretchiness, but people hardly crave stretchiness. Msybe there are some secret Seitan addicts out there. I think the craving is more likely for the starch, which fills you up, digests quickly and leaves you hungry again after an hour. Like any other protein gluten digests slowly.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 08, 2012
at 07:55 AM

Hmmm...my colonoscopy showed no signs of gut erosion after 50+ years of eating gluten. No cause for concern there. More importantly they found no polyps, which are a cause for concern, especially if cancerous. Those problems are associated with high consumption of fatty preservative-laden red meats such as bacon and sausage.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 08, 2012
at 03:04 AM

By the way my doctor spotted my sore toe right away and recommended shoes with a bigger toe box. He responded to real inflammation with useful advice. Cordain's advice is on a much higher level of course, though I don't see anything as useful.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 08, 2012
at 02:50 AM

To continue, nothing on the lists explains the pain in my toe. How did Cordain miss something as obvious as tight shoes? This is a glaring omission. Even more glaring is the omission of overeating, to which obesity is the inflammatory response. There are millions of causes for REAL inflammation, yet Cordain manages to find only trivia. Saponins my eye.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 08, 2012
at 02:19 AM

@ladyarwen a theory that explains everything without being objectively testable is too much of a stretch for me. You can measure inflammatory response to severe trauma with CRP, but you and Cordain have gone WAY beyond that into cloud cuckoo territory. Yes all the things mentioned are bad. But why inflammation explain them all? I have a tight shoe and an inflamed toe - clear connection between the two. The above lists are not clearly connected to such a quantifiable outcome as the sore toe.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 07, 2012
at 06:27 AM

I have a feeling (correct me if I am wrong) that many people on this site think that gluten sensitivity is when you eat something with gluten and feel bad afterwards. This is just so far from the truth!!! You eat gluten and you feel fine after, in fact, eating foods with gluten makes you crave for more gluten. It is an overall feeling that is getting worse and worse with years (not in a matter of weeks or months - years) as it erodes your gut. This is why so many people here do not understand the dangers of gluten. It affects all of us.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on May 07, 2012
at 02:40 AM

Actually, the fact that you can not clearly see the lack of carbohydrates compared to the availability of animals/insects/birds is extremely telling. Seriously. AYFKM?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on May 06, 2012
at 10:26 PM

Speaks to the collective state of our biological machinery... it's broken and unable to handle gluten.

C631e6c69fdeab669b6987e128cfd6ff

(10)

on May 06, 2012
at 10:10 PM

you'd be surprised by how many people have SOME kind of trouble with gluten, and how many problems it can cause in the body

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on May 06, 2012
at 10:01 PM

What you describe really sounds like a developing sensitivity. Really makes the question of whether gluten sensitivity is the disease or the symptom all the more relevant!

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 06, 2012
at 04:20 PM

I don't think grass-fed beef is essential. Different Paleos eat differently. Some do lacto-ovo Paleo, raw Paleo, pescatarian Paleo, VLC/LC/moderate carb Paleo, etc. I believe it's ideal to to have a wide variety as possible (depending on individual tolerance) of vegetables, fruits, meats, seafood, herbs, animal fats, and some vegetable oils (palm, coconut, and uncooked olive oil).

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 06, 2012
at 02:46 PM

@Matt - keep in mind - I was raised on gluten. I ate gluten all my life. I never ever had any problems eating gluten. The changes occurred much later in life and they were so gradual, I did not even notice them. My doctors kept telling me I was a picture of perfect health. My blood work was ideal. Gluten sensitivity is silent. I was lucky I discovered that, although too late. Many people live all their lives and DO NOT KNOW - there is no 100% reliable test. You cannot say whether you are gluten sensitive or not when you are in your 20s.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on May 06, 2012
at 02:24 PM

A number of your certainties are uncertainties in my mind. Gluten sensitivity in particular. Healthy folks are not gluten sensitive.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on May 06, 2012
at 02:21 PM

Gluten hysteria is just that... hysteria.

0d892cb232c3c7d59699fd10c995595a

(809)

on May 06, 2012
at 05:46 AM

I greatly concur with JASmith, besides if Wolf is a protege of Cordain, what about DR. Braly (Dangerous Grains), or Dr. Davis (Wheat Belly), and all the statistical research and bibliography they use in their books??

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on May 06, 2012
at 04:24 AM

@Lady_Arwen: good point I'm sure I'd feel terrible eating atkins bars for 30 days. Let me retreat a bit and re-focus on just one point: how do we know that the whole grass beef thing is essential. What if you did everything except didn't worry about the N3:N6? I wonder how much success people would have?

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:31 AM

CaveMan_Mike - you can run your own n=1 experiment. For 30 days eat low carb including junk food, wheat, processed etc. Then 30 days do Paleo low carb (keep carbs the same) and see how you look and feel. That's ultimately what Wolf has suggested 30 days Paleo compare - how you look, feel, and biomarkers.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:25 AM

So the 9 possible examples of inflammation - how would you like to characterize them instead if not inflammation thhq? Who's Art Bell and what does he have do with inflammation?

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:22 AM

Low carb doesn't distinguish the quality of calories. I've seen enough low carb people still have metabolic and other issues because they're eating "low-carb" pasta, Atkins bars, and other processed foods. Paleo is about minimizing processed foods.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:19 AM

Umm the Kitvans, and other cultures are extremely high carb but follow a Paleolithic lifestyle. They also happen to smoke too! Not that I'm advocating smoking ...

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:17 AM

CaveMan - if simply cutting carbs would yield 95% of the effect then the people who go low carb BEFORE Paleo (including my husband and I) _ and I've met at least 40 others (there must be more on PH) would not have bothered to go Paleo. Many of us who did low carb but continued onto Paleo wanted greater reduction in inflammation.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:15 AM

thhq - show me a better theory than inflammation. What does this have to do with conspiracies?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 06, 2012
at 01:54 AM

Thanks for the information! Nice to know! :)

F524eaa9d58e5cd2d2368ff7bfffda9c

(480)

on May 06, 2012
at 12:07 AM

It's ridiculous

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on May 05, 2012
at 10:37 PM

That's really not accurate.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 05, 2012
at 09:36 PM

My N=1 paleo benefits are from eating meat and being much more active.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 05, 2012
at 09:29 PM

Paleo and the Med diet intersect at a lot of points. The Med has the proven track record for health.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 05, 2012
at 09:24 PM

I still have a problem with the word "inflammation". I know that it's not the same as CRP or any other measurable index. It falls into the realm of Art Bell, conspiracies and a general sense of creeping doom. Cordain takes it as common wisdom, then writes a sermon which would do justice to John Calvin for the number of points. You have to be a true believer in "inflammation" to swallow it though.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on May 05, 2012
at 07:41 PM

www.mynetdiary.com also has an iphone / android client for on the go recording!

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on May 05, 2012
at 07:41 PM

i use www.mynetdiary.com (free) to track the p/f/c of what I'm eating.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on May 05, 2012
at 05:28 PM

I'll confess I did read his book, as well as Robb's, but didn't go through the references. As to the list of 12 above, are we really certain that those 12 are major sources of inflammation? What if simply cutting way back on carbs would yield 95% of the effect, and the rest is tweaking and window dressing? #4 pesticides, for example: sure, intuitively a bad thing, but is that the major thing that is making us fat and most of the modern diseases?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:59 PM

Thank you! I think I got it! I am mathematically challenged... sometimes :)

3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:35 PM

It's on every nutritional/ingredient label on every food. Just read the back lol. 1g Carb = 4 calories. 1g Protein = 4 calories. 1g Fat = 9 calories. (Except Coconut Oil and MCT oil which are 8.4 calories per gram.) 1g Alcohol = 7 calories.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:29 PM

How do you know how many calories from carbs do you get? Is there a chart somewhere on the Internet? Thank you for answering because I am totally lost now.

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on May 05, 2012
at 03:52 PM

Not 150 g veggies, but 150g of carbs (600 calories from carbs). Vegetables have a lot of water and fiber, so part of it is caloric density. Leafy greens are not nearly as calorically dense as, say, sweet potato.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 05, 2012
at 03:08 PM

I did not really know that. Actually, I do not understand - 150 grams of cooked of fresh vegetables? Because I probably have over 500 grams of cooked veggies every day.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 05, 2012
at 02:57 PM

depends on what you define as low carb. VLC is usually 50 grams/day and below. LC is typically 51-150 g/day. And most people eat lower carb then SAD!

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 05, 2012
at 10:52 AM

Robb Wolf is also not the only (or oldest) Paleo guru- he was a protege of Cordain so no the reason Gluten is not included is not due to one person projecting their own dietary preferences but rather a larger goal of reducing inflammation in the body with diet

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on May 05, 2012
at 10:20 AM

I know Robb Wolf is sensitive to gluten, and was kind of wonder if he projected his personal issues into a larger "religion" so to speak.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 05, 2012
at 06:12 AM

So true... and so sad.

Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

13 Answers

best answer

4
Ae8946707ddebf0f0bfbcfc63276d823

(9402)

on May 05, 2012
at 10:49 AM

For me personally, I believe there are 3 separate benefits to paleo diet:

(1) Weight loss / ease of maintaining healthy weight. I think this (for me who already had a relatively healthy metabolism) is largely driven by eating whole foods (high satiety, lower food reward, avoiding highly addictive engineered foods, etc). For me, I don't think low carb was a big part, because I eat potatoes, good amount of fruit, some white rice, etc. I agree that many other diets can accomplish this same goal.

(2) Better digestion. Cutting out insoluble fiber, gluten and reducing soluble fiber has made my digestion much better. I have less gas, bloating and easier bowel movements. This may not apply the same to everyone because I think many can adapt to higher levels of fiber just fine and not everyone is so sensitive to gluten.

(3) Long term health. I do think having a proper n6/n3 ratio and getting enough food high in micronutrients and low in antinutrients will contribute to me staying healthier, happier, longer. For this though, I have little personal evidence/experience. I do believe it though because it seems to make sense, I've seen research which seems to validate and I've read of lots of personal anecdotes. Time will tell for sure, and this thread I think is relevant:

http://paleohacks.com/questions/111837/does-being-paleo-come-down-to-faith

13
0d892cb232c3c7d59699fd10c995595a

on May 05, 2012
at 03:56 AM

The difference is that many, very many of us are gluten sensitive, even if not completely ridden with celiac disease. Furthermore, the other extremely harmful protein in wheat--gliadin, is not only a major contributor to a lot of the problems associated with gluten, but also serves as an opiate making the addiction/repetition factor huge in the damage gluten does to much of our hormone production. Just because you eliminate grains does not mean you're on a "low carb" diet, and vice versa, you can eat grains every now and then on a generally low carb diet, while constantly burdening your body with gluten and gliadin.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on May 05, 2012
at 10:20 AM

I know Robb Wolf is sensitive to gluten, and was kind of wonder if he projected his personal issues into a larger "religion" so to speak.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 05, 2012
at 06:12 AM

So true... and so sad.

Eead82aa93bbcdada0bcd817d0952e58

(214)

on May 05, 2012
at 10:52 AM

Robb Wolf is also not the only (or oldest) Paleo guru- he was a protege of Cordain so no the reason Gluten is not included is not due to one person projecting their own dietary preferences but rather a larger goal of reducing inflammation in the body with diet

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on May 06, 2012
at 02:21 PM

Gluten hysteria is just that... hysteria.

0d892cb232c3c7d59699fd10c995595a

(809)

on May 06, 2012
at 05:46 AM

I greatly concur with JASmith, besides if Wolf is a protege of Cordain, what about DR. Braly (Dangerous Grains), or Dr. Davis (Wheat Belly), and all the statistical research and bibliography they use in their books??

F31d10b54b31428e189d9b771bf7b1d1

(1439)

on June 20, 2012
at 05:20 PM

Matt, that is a profoundly stupid thing to say. It is easy and stupid to deny the validity of other people's experience.

11
Af3e3615beba642bcafd0f21d64d74f7

on May 05, 2012
at 08:10 AM

There are people eating high carb Paleo and getting the same benefits, so...

7
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on May 06, 2012
at 02:39 PM

I'm more and more convinced that some of the paleo rules are there because of broken people. The gluten thing... as much of a mancrush I have on Robb Wolf I think he projected his gluten intolerance into paleo. I'm not convinced that gluten intolerance is anything more than a symptom of deranged digestive, immune, and metabolic systems. PUFAs... I think some have taken the PUFA avoidance too far and turned it into a phobia. Seed oils, sure, are nasty. But fretting over things like pork and poultry? Cmon!!

Just a couple of examples off the top of head. Things that I've hacked with my own personal paleo. I'm gluten tolerant and love me some pork! There may be some genuine necessity out there for some folks but even that should probably be only temporary while our bodies heal themselves.

Edit : on phytic acid... it's nonsense. Healthy diets have adequate nutrients and have significant phytates. Deranged digestive systems are the problem, not phytates!

C631e6c69fdeab669b6987e128cfd6ff

(10)

on May 06, 2012
at 10:10 PM

you'd be surprised by how many people have SOME kind of trouble with gluten, and how many problems it can cause in the body

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on May 06, 2012
at 10:26 PM

Speaks to the collective state of our biological machinery... it's broken and unable to handle gluten.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 09, 2012
at 07:27 PM

If phytates are suppressive of colon cancer, then heavy red meat eaters like paleos will improve their longevity by eating them.

5
7f21faee0593b49bf734cfa7b8a2b523

(60)

on May 05, 2012
at 10:22 AM

Paleo has an interestingly large overlap with a "healthy diet". While i do not eat paleo and dont buy into its mysticism, i find my diet to be mostly paleo-like anyway. So you might as well do what paleo says, or do a whole f***ton of research and arrive at a quasi paleo diet anyway, with the added feeling of knowing what you do and why you do it.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 05, 2012
at 09:29 PM

Paleo and the Med diet intersect at a lot of points. The Med has the proven track record for health.

5
3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on May 05, 2012
at 03:25 AM

It's all interconnected and it's all important.

Some stuff is more significant than others. The Paleo Diet is effective because it addresses multiple angles of the proper human diet at once.

5
1296f5fecd084f101d7c5fbe013f07eb

(1213)

on May 05, 2012
at 03:12 AM

If that's the question, then those people are not really following a "paleo" diet in the most typical sense...they're following a low-carb diet, which could be paleo, but may not be. If we're discussing "favorable results," then you'll have to specify which - many are reported, ranging from improved lipid profiles to better-smelling sweat.

In terms of efficacy, I believe in synergy.

4
Fc6a9e07f6056d465573c8969d3a2ddd

(370)

on May 05, 2012
at 03:40 PM

I view paleo as a diet in the "way of eating" definition of the word, not the "weight loss" one. So comparing paleo (as I practice it) to a weight-focused low-carb diet is an apples-to-oranges thing. Sure, grassfed meat and unprocessed oils may have the same amount of calories as their CAFO and factory equivalents, and you may lose the same amount of weight consuming them, but that's ignoring the rest of the picture. There's a lot more to health than the number on the scale, and I believe that paleo is doing more for my health than Adkins ever would.

As for why I'm a paleo believer: I'm a scientist, and like the decisions I make in the lab every day, this one comes down to part empirical knowledge, part literature review, and part logic. Logically, humans spent millions of years adapting to a hunter-gatherer diet and only a few thousand years eating agricultural foods, so it seems very rational to me that our bodies would function better on a Paleolithic diet. Eating Neolithic food is like putting regular gas in your car when the manufacturer tells you to use premium. Sure, it still runs, but you lose a little performance and it's harder on the engine. When it comes to my car, I'm okay with that; but when it comes to my body, I am more careful.

4
F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 05, 2012
at 05:19 AM

Even if everything you wrote would be true, I would still not change the way I eat. Why? Because I cannot eat anything else. Many people told me coconut oil is healthy. Guess what? My body rejects it. But my body has never ever said "No" to any vegetable, especially cabbage. I use my now gluten-intolerant and so sensitive body to be my finest gauge. If it says "NO" I comply with its demands.

I cannot say I eat low carb. I eat at least 9 cups of veggies per day, beets, pumpkin, mushrooms, carrots, celery root - can I say it is low carb? I eat more vegetables (by weight) than meat. And I have no nuts or fruit at all.

Do I think that I am doing the right thing? I don't think anymore. I follow my body's clues on what it wants and I obey. Because I have no choice.


EDITED:

There are things that I question about Paleo. There are things that I agree with Paleo. I think it is a healthy approach. I have also noticed that some people are going overboard with Paleo.

Things that I DO NOT QUESTION:

  1. Vegetables are good for you.
  2. Gluten is a silent killer.
  3. Berries are good for you. Fruit in moderation is good for you too.
  4. Lean grass-fed meat, wild fish is good for you.
  5. Moderate exercise is good for you.
  6. Nature is good for you.
  7. Processed food is not healthy.
  8. Some wild plants and herbs are essential for your diet.

Things I AM NOT SURE ABOUT:

  1. Coconut oil is good for you (I really do not care for research - you can prove just about anything).
  2. Olive oil is good for you.
  3. Any oils are good for you.
  4. Nuts are good for you year around.
  5. Eggs are good for you year around.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 06, 2012
at 01:54 AM

Thanks for the information! Nice to know! :)

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on May 05, 2012
at 07:41 PM

i use www.mynetdiary.com (free) to track the p/f/c of what I'm eating.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:59 PM

Thank you! I think I got it! I am mathematically challenged... sometimes :)

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:29 PM

How do you know how many calories from carbs do you get? Is there a chart somewhere on the Internet? Thank you for answering because I am totally lost now.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on May 05, 2012
at 07:41 PM

www.mynetdiary.com also has an iphone / android client for on the go recording!

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 05, 2012
at 02:57 PM

depends on what you define as low carb. VLC is usually 50 grams/day and below. LC is typically 51-150 g/day. And most people eat lower carb then SAD!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 05, 2012
at 03:08 PM

I did not really know that. Actually, I do not understand - 150 grams of cooked of fresh vegetables? Because I probably have over 500 grams of cooked veggies every day.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 06, 2012
at 02:46 PM

@Matt - keep in mind - I was raised on gluten. I ate gluten all my life. I never ever had any problems eating gluten. The changes occurred much later in life and they were so gradual, I did not even notice them. My doctors kept telling me I was a picture of perfect health. My blood work was ideal. Gluten sensitivity is silent. I was lucky I discovered that, although too late. Many people live all their lives and DO NOT KNOW - there is no 100% reliable test. You cannot say whether you are gluten sensitive or not when you are in your 20s.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on May 06, 2012
at 02:24 PM

A number of your certainties are uncertainties in my mind. Gluten sensitivity in particular. Healthy folks are not gluten sensitive.

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on May 05, 2012
at 03:52 PM

Not 150 g veggies, but 150g of carbs (600 calories from carbs). Vegetables have a lot of water and fiber, so part of it is caloric density. Leafy greens are not nearly as calorically dense as, say, sweet potato.

3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:35 PM

It's on every nutritional/ingredient label on every food. Just read the back lol. 1g Carb = 4 calories. 1g Protein = 4 calories. 1g Fat = 9 calories. (Except Coconut Oil and MCT oil which are 8.4 calories per gram.) 1g Alcohol = 7 calories.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 07, 2012
at 06:27 AM

I have a feeling (correct me if I am wrong) that many people on this site think that gluten sensitivity is when you eat something with gluten and feel bad afterwards. This is just so far from the truth!!! You eat gluten and you feel fine after, in fact, eating foods with gluten makes you crave for more gluten. It is an overall feeling that is getting worse and worse with years (not in a matter of weeks or months - years) as it erodes your gut. This is why so many people here do not understand the dangers of gluten. It affects all of us.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on May 06, 2012
at 10:01 PM

What you describe really sounds like a developing sensitivity. Really makes the question of whether gluten sensitivity is the disease or the symptom all the more relevant!

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 08, 2012
at 07:55 AM

Hmmm...my colonoscopy showed no signs of gut erosion after 50+ years of eating gluten. No cause for concern there. More importantly they found no polyps, which are a cause for concern, especially if cancerous. Those problems are associated with high consumption of fatty preservative-laden red meats such as bacon and sausage.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 08, 2012
at 08:01 AM

I've never heard of gluten cravings either. Gluten gives frenc bread its stretchiness, but people hardly crave stretchiness. Msybe there are some secret Seitan addicts out there. I think the craving is more likely for the starch, which fills you up, digests quickly and leaves you hungry again after an hour. Like any other protein gluten digests slowly.

3
44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:51 AM

You dont really need to eat any oils anyway. You can do whole coconuts, avocados and bone marrow, brains too if you can. Least amount of processing with fats is always way to go. Let your body do the processing.

3
7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596

(2861)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:15 AM

???How does anyone know what portion of the paleo diet is the portion that is effective???? One doesn???t, but a reasonable approach is to be guided by the whole foods available in pre-industrial cultures that have not experienced the diseases of civilization.

???Carbs??? are not relevant to this approach. I don???t think phytic acid or lectins or saponins or whatever are that relevant either, especially if you are focusing on nutrient dense whole foods and not displacing too many nutrient dense foods with grains.

I do think that N:6 is relevant, especially in terms of rancid seed oil being consumed at much higher concentrations than what was possible just 100 years ago.

My approach is eat whole foods minus the vegetable oil. I do favor the "safe starches" over wheat and such, but I don't have that many objections to non-soy, non-peanut legumes. I even eat wheat occasionally since I dont have any sensitivities to it.

2
8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

on May 05, 2012
at 03:19 PM

Have you read Loren Cordain's latest: The Paleo Answer? It has a lot of good references and studies to inflammation caused by Neolithic foods.

The sources of excessive inflammation (not in any particular order) include (and he talks about most of these) found in modern life (primarily food):

1) lectins

2) phytates

3) saponins

4) pesticides, herbicides, chemicals

5) excess hormones or endocrine modifiers (i.e. those added in conventional meat), phytoestrogens (soy, BPA, etc.)

6) stress, lack of sleep

7) protease inhibitors - block protein absorption

8) abnormal gut flora

9) glycosides

10) excess carbohydrate? (but Kitavans are a counterpoint) but they NO OTHER CAUSE OF INFLAMMATION other then smoking so maybe they can get away with it!

11) omega 3-6 ratio

12) mycotoxins (molds/yeasts), infections

If you accept the premise that almost all disease is excessive inflammation of some sort (which I do) for example:

1) heart disease - inflammation of blood vessels and/or heart

2) arthritis (both osteo and rheumatoid) - inflammation of joints

3) allergies and autoimmune - immune system inflamed

4) IBS, GERD, diarrhea, abdominal bloating/pain etc - GI inflammation

5) pain - body is telling you are inflamed!

6) cancer/tumors - inflammatory mass of uncontrolled cell growth

7) multiple sclerosis, some mental illness- inflammation of brain and nervous system

8) metabolic syndrome, obesity, aging - inflammation due to the AGE (advanced glycation end products) due to glucose

9) infections - microbial disease from pathogens inflames the body

If you understand these excessive causes of inflammation are the cause of 90% of modern disease and most of it is preventable then you will understand that a mismatch between evolution and lifestyle leads to excessive inflammation and disease! You do not even have to believe in evolution (I happen to) but the inflammation cause of disease is widely accepted in the medical world but the argument on food is far more emotional and political so it drags on ...

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 06, 2012
at 04:20 PM

I don't think grass-fed beef is essential. Different Paleos eat differently. Some do lacto-ovo Paleo, raw Paleo, pescatarian Paleo, VLC/LC/moderate carb Paleo, etc. I believe it's ideal to to have a wide variety as possible (depending on individual tolerance) of vegetables, fruits, meats, seafood, herbs, animal fats, and some vegetable oils (palm, coconut, and uncooked olive oil).

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:17 AM

CaveMan - if simply cutting carbs would yield 95% of the effect then the people who go low carb BEFORE Paleo (including my husband and I) _ and I've met at least 40 others (there must be more on PH) would not have bothered to go Paleo. Many of us who did low carb but continued onto Paleo wanted greater reduction in inflammation.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on May 05, 2012
at 05:28 PM

I'll confess I did read his book, as well as Robb's, but didn't go through the references. As to the list of 12 above, are we really certain that those 12 are major sources of inflammation? What if simply cutting way back on carbs would yield 95% of the effect, and the rest is tweaking and window dressing? #4 pesticides, for example: sure, intuitively a bad thing, but is that the major thing that is making us fat and most of the modern diseases?

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:25 AM

So the 9 possible examples of inflammation - how would you like to characterize them instead if not inflammation thhq? Who's Art Bell and what does he have do with inflammation?

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on May 06, 2012
at 04:24 AM

@Lady_Arwen: good point I'm sure I'd feel terrible eating atkins bars for 30 days. Let me retreat a bit and re-focus on just one point: how do we know that the whole grass beef thing is essential. What if you did everything except didn't worry about the N3:N6? I wonder how much success people would have?

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:22 AM

Low carb doesn't distinguish the quality of calories. I've seen enough low carb people still have metabolic and other issues because they're eating "low-carb" pasta, Atkins bars, and other processed foods. Paleo is about minimizing processed foods.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 05, 2012
at 09:24 PM

I still have a problem with the word "inflammation". I know that it's not the same as CRP or any other measurable index. It falls into the realm of Art Bell, conspiracies and a general sense of creeping doom. Cordain takes it as common wisdom, then writes a sermon which would do justice to John Calvin for the number of points. You have to be a true believer in "inflammation" to swallow it though.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:15 AM

thhq - show me a better theory than inflammation. What does this have to do with conspiracies?

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:31 AM

CaveMan_Mike - you can run your own n=1 experiment. For 30 days eat low carb including junk food, wheat, processed etc. Then 30 days do Paleo low carb (keep carbs the same) and see how you look and feel. That's ultimately what Wolf has suggested 30 days Paleo compare - how you look, feel, and biomarkers.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 08, 2012
at 02:19 AM

@ladyarwen a theory that explains everything without being objectively testable is too much of a stretch for me. You can measure inflammatory response to severe trauma with CRP, but you and Cordain have gone WAY beyond that into cloud cuckoo territory. Yes all the things mentioned are bad. But why inflammation explain them all? I have a tight shoe and an inflamed toe - clear connection between the two. The above lists are not clearly connected to such a quantifiable outcome as the sore toe.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 08, 2012
at 03:04 AM

By the way my doctor spotted my sore toe right away and recommended shoes with a bigger toe box. He responded to real inflammation with useful advice. Cordain's advice is on a much higher level of course, though I don't see anything as useful.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 08, 2012
at 02:50 AM

To continue, nothing on the lists explains the pain in my toe. How did Cordain miss something as obvious as tight shoes? This is a glaring omission. Even more glaring is the omission of overeating, to which obesity is the inflammatory response. There are millions of causes for REAL inflammation, yet Cordain manages to find only trivia. Saponins my eye.

-3
1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

on May 05, 2012
at 09:23 PM

If your eating 'low carb paleo' that is more realistic than a higher carb paleo. Carbs simply do NOT exist in nature in 99% of the world in any abundance whatsoever during paleolithic times. You know this, I know you know this.

But, is it BETTER for you? Now THAT is the question isn't it?

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on May 05, 2012
at 10:37 PM

That's really not accurate.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:19 AM

Umm the Kitvans, and other cultures are extremely high carb but follow a Paleolithic lifestyle. They also happen to smoke too! Not that I'm advocating smoking ...

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on May 07, 2012
at 02:40 AM

Actually, the fact that you can not clearly see the lack of carbohydrates compared to the availability of animals/insects/birds is extremely telling. Seriously. AYFKM?

F524eaa9d58e5cd2d2368ff7bfffda9c

(480)

on May 06, 2012
at 12:07 AM

It's ridiculous

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!