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PaleoHacks= Atkins 2.0= Bulls^%T

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created October 17, 2012 at 8:24 AM

Sorry, but I have been Paleo for a decade. What you have hear is just another low carb, high fat diet.

Paleo is NOT that. It is not low carb. It is not high fat.

You need to eat lean meats. a lot of veggies, and a lot of fruits and nuts.

Anything else is just atkins 2.0,

This board is full of misinformation and very mentally ill individuals.

8dbe73235f73c615f20d3d0f34b4852a

(1365)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:17 PM

I threw "lean meats/veggies/fats" out there as a "great place to start". This is probably the most convincing way to get people to drop processed crap and over onto a Paleo diet. And I'll still stand by the statement that it'll get you most of the benefit. I eat bison liver. Not a huge heart fan. Digestive tract organ tissue is still weird to me. Downing the gamey fat on my lamb ossobucco makes my taste buds happy. But these are all things that I eased into once I saw the benefits of eating lean meats/veggies/fate for a a while.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 17, 2012
at 03:40 PM

Extreme low carb is limited to extremes in environment. Just as extreme high carb is limited to extreme tropical environments. The average H-G ate moderate carb, lower than modern diets, but certainly not ketogenic as some like to think.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 17, 2012
at 03:37 PM

Particularly when we have modern-era hunter-gatherers to observe. That's why I mentioned the Inuit, because they're the low-carbers favorite hunter-gatherer group.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 17, 2012
at 03:35 PM

Paleolithic peoples also periodically starved, is that optimal? You can take the "what would Grok do?" meme a little too far down the reenactment road. It's a little silly to be hypothesizing about what paleolithic people were eating, when and where.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 01:18 PM

Plus it would be fun :P

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 01:15 PM

Plus it might be fun...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 01:15 PM

So in that spirit, I challenge the OP, to prove, or reason, or argue, that people in the paleolithic, _never_ ate low or very low carb for any significant periods, and always ate lean meats and avoided fat. Id like to see some form of justification at least!

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 01:12 PM

The paleo diet, is defined, technically by being at least loosely based on what paleo HGers ate, and avoiding neolithic foods, nutritional bias and eating habits. Hence the name. Eating like they did in that era. It doesnt take much thought or brain power to figure out what that means. It it fits into that, its paleo (ie low carb and moderate carb). If it doesnt, its either semi-paleo, or not paleo at all.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:59 PM

Well, true. OP says lean meat cuts is "paleo", but Neil here didnt. He just offered his opinion on it being somehow beneficial to eat lean muscle meats. Everyones entitled to an opinion. I probably mixed the two up a little. Apologies.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:51 PM

I do agree however, that paleo is not low carb by default at all. Its lower than the wheat chowers, but not by default low or very low carb, like atkins. It can be, but thats not what defines it. As a whole paleohacks is highly macro agnostic, its only individually some have strong feelings on this. Same with the paleo community outside of this forum. Which begs the question, what the heck is the OP talking about? That doesnt accurately represent the diversity of opinion here. Save the "its not always low carb" talk for those that dont understand the lifestyle.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:44 PM

What I really really cant understand is how anyone could veiw low carb as invalid, historically, given the historical precedent of the human gene pool (pre-fire, new territories with unknown plant species, ice age, long winters and general nomadic oppurtunists), and yes somehow lean muscle meat cuts are valid even though all such nomadic hunter gatherers eat nose to tail. I think id need part of my brain cut out to get any of that.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:42 PM

For the record, I am relatively carb agnostic. I eat low sometimes, med-low sometimes, and medium sometimes. But I see no rationale/validity for suggesting that low-carb is not paleo, it is a sure thing that nomadic folk can go decent periods without plant carbs (plus the ice age, in all our dna, plus pre-fire when you couldnt cook the tubers). Just like theres no rationale for suggesting medium carb aint paleo, theres lots of evidence for starchy foods post-fire. They are both paleo, and I have no idea why historically, genetically either could be considered invalid.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:36 PM

Generally speaking, post-fire, it would have been neither very low or higher carb, but in specific places, and at specific times it would have been both. Paleo, as low carb, is just as valid as medium carb, historically speaking. Pure nomadic re-enactment would technically probably require we seasonally rotate (which very few do). More to the point, and more of what I was addressing here, what hunter gatherer ever shuns fat? The OP says they eat lean meat, what historical basis could that possibly have (eating only muscle meats, stripped of fats)?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:32 PM

The ice age is part of our collective genetic history, so I dont consider it an outlier at all. There is no doubt in my mind, that it has influenced our genes. I never mentioned the innuit. I wasnt suggesting low carb is superior to medium carb, simply that its part of our range of adaptability due to the ice age, and other times of low plant foods. If you read my comments, youll see that I am instead saying that our macro intake, as nomadic hunter gatherers, would have varied alot from place and time.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 17, 2012
at 11:46 AM

@Jamie: He didn't indicate that H-Gs did that.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 17, 2012
at 11:44 AM

Jamie - I understand where folks are coming from wanting paleo to be non-low-carb. Pointing to **outliers**, like the Inuit or the Ice Age, as a rationale for paleo is a recipe for failure.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:33 AM

I do get SOOOO sick of these macro debates. Its like religion. BTW, do you beleive that dietary fat is non-essential to health?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:31 AM

Of course _most_ of the time that wasnt likely high carb, and definately not in the ice age, but other than that it would have been variable based on local knowledge and locale. Certainly some of this time, early man would have eaten higher carbs (when hunting was scarce), and some of the time he would have eaten mostly animals (very high fat, modertate protein and very low carb). He has to have be adaptable to all of those, or we wouldnt exist.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:27 AM

Calling low carb paleo, atkins 2.0, is like calling what you presumably eat, low-fat food pyramid 2.0. The emphasis of paleo is on whole unprocessed, pre-agricultural foods, and if you choose to do it higher carb, lower fat, fine, but dont confuse that with a defination of "paleo", which has many definations (low protein, high fat), (low or medium carbs), (medium fat, higher protein). Given paleo man had to actually work hard to get food for much of the era, its kinda stupid arguing about macros, he ate what he found/killed.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:22 AM

Can you show me a modern hunter gatherer than eats just muscle meat and throws away the rest of the animal? You might find higher or lower carbs in tribes (which probably relates to activity levels, in terms of its health effects), and being nomads would be highly variable based on locale and season, but I am confused as to why anyone would think our anscestors shunned normal, naturally occuring animal products, like has been the hallmark of the modern low-fat fad. I dont follow that logic at all. No part of an animal is wasted in pre-agricultural societies.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:18 AM

Yeah, maybe some more lols to come..

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:17 AM

Oh,FYI, nuts are high fat.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:17 AM

Why BTW do you eat lean meats, and how does that have any resemblence to the whole animal consumption of tribal and paleolithic peoples?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:16 AM

Nuts BTW, are high fat.

76026e8ef496039d5075440ff731aa0d

(5386)

on October 17, 2012
at 08:52 AM

Tell me how you really feel...don't sugar coat it though.

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2 Answers

2
1fe1aa7b22a33fed5438e19480ac8245

on October 17, 2012
at 09:06 AM

Excellent post #1, I can't wait to see where you go from here.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:18 AM

Yeah, maybe some more lols to come..

0
8dbe73235f73c615f20d3d0f34b4852a

(1365)

on October 17, 2012
at 09:21 AM

I tend to agree with dieyoung. I think the "probably a great place to start" is with lean meats, a variety of tons of veggies, and perhaps some added fat for cooking ease. This really will get you most, if not all, of the benefit you're likely to see on a Paleo diet. Paleo"Hacks" certainly takes on different meanings depending on who's posting/answering. The best thing you can do to get started is to go read the Paleo books. Those are based on better science than the answers here in most cases, and you'll then be able to read the Qs and As here through a filter of some sort of base knowledge.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:59 PM

Well, true. OP says lean meat cuts is "paleo", but Neil here didnt. He just offered his opinion on it being somehow beneficial to eat lean muscle meats. Everyones entitled to an opinion. I probably mixed the two up a little. Apologies.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 17, 2012
at 11:46 AM

@Jamie: He didn't indicate that H-Gs did that.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:22 AM

Can you show me a modern hunter gatherer than eats just muscle meat and throws away the rest of the animal? You might find higher or lower carbs in tribes (which probably relates to activity levels, in terms of its health effects), and being nomads would be highly variable based on locale and season, but I am confused as to why anyone would think our anscestors shunned normal, naturally occuring animal products, like has been the hallmark of the modern low-fat fad. I dont follow that logic at all. No part of an animal is wasted in pre-agricultural societies.

8dbe73235f73c615f20d3d0f34b4852a

(1365)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:17 PM

I threw "lean meats/veggies/fats" out there as a "great place to start". This is probably the most convincing way to get people to drop processed crap and over onto a Paleo diet. And I'll still stand by the statement that it'll get you most of the benefit. I eat bison liver. Not a huge heart fan. Digestive tract organ tissue is still weird to me. Downing the gamey fat on my lamb ossobucco makes my taste buds happy. But these are all things that I eased into once I saw the benefits of eating lean meats/veggies/fate for a a while.

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