2

votes

Paleo and Sebborheic Dermatitis

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 07, 2011 at 7:06 PM

Hi guys It was hoping you could share your experience dealing with sebborheic dermatitis

Background:

  • 28 year old male ??? had dandruff more or less my whole life

  • During the last 3 years I developed, what I believe is, sebborheic dermatitis on my face (classic symptoms: dry itchy skin around nasolabial folds, between eyebrowns and area above upper lip and nose)-

My observations:

  • The condition did not improve since going gluten free or low dairy

  • It definitely gets worse if I eat products with refined sugar (however, the dose-response is not 100% consistent)

  • I am currently avoiding dairy and nightshades completely ??? one week in, so far so good

  • I am using Ketoconazole shampoos with some success but rather address the issue than only the symptoms

Given me experience what aggregates the condition I tend to believe that it is linked to intestinal health - this research seem to found a link between probiotics and dandruff:

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19367116][1]

http://skin.gcnpublishing.com/fileadmin/content_pdf/archive_pdf/vol40iss11/70545_main.pdf

I would appreciate any thoughts you have on this subject!

Kind regards,

Viktor

A6a23e87167ea8418aebaf0061c195d7

on May 24, 2014
at 02:41 AM

But I still have the clogged pores and flaking. I started washing with pure dead sea salt from Israel 6 days ago and it seems to be helping. I also want to try ACV and Kefir topically. I'm already eating paleo but I'm going to cut out fruit and fix things internally (clear out Candida + take lots of probiotics and vitamins). I know I have a Candida issue cause I feel sick if I eat too much fruit.

If you see this post at any time I'd love to hear how things went for you and if you have any insight/suggestions, thanks :)

A6a23e87167ea8418aebaf0061c195d7

on May 24, 2014
at 02:38 AM

Hi Bill 4, I'm not sure if you'll see this comment cause it's years later but I'm wondering if you managed to get rid of the clogged, flaking pore issue and fix your skin barrier?

I developed the same problem after a 7-month round of prescription creams (Retin-A) and antibiotics. My face was beet red and my barriers were totally gone, I immediately started getting awful flaky, crusty build-up that I had to scrub away. Anyway, that was a couple of years ago and my skin has healed a ton, the redness is pretty much completely gone and my barriers are improved but I still have the (cont...)

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

I have a lot of SD on my face. Hopefully you get good answers.

F00050d678de2dc749a86b4d3f2ffc0c

(321)

on July 26, 2013
at 06:49 PM

Google says OTC, in Colorado I had to get a script for Ketoconazole 2% Taro brand and it worked well. Used it mainly as anti-fungal. Last resort, I used desodine. Worked very well but it is a steroid.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on May 14, 2013
at 12:53 AM

Is that prescription or could you get it OTC?

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on May 14, 2012
at 03:28 AM

Hey Viktor! Going great on my end. Currently using jojoba oil as a moisturizer and eating paleo and my skin is wonderful at the moment. Hope it stays that way! For me, higher plant foods like fruits, veggies, tubers, nuts, and even some seeds and less animal foods seems to make a difference for me! The plant fats seem to make my skin look better. The jojoba oil is for extra healing!

E8839fa9288defedfe7a3bf0d5680e4c

(10)

on May 12, 2012
at 08:35 AM

Bill - just checking in to see how things are going on your end?

E8839fa9288defedfe7a3bf0d5680e4c

(10)

on November 09, 2011
at 09:34 AM

Thanks for the extensive reply Bill - from what I can gather, it seems that the issue can be dealt with externally and/or internally. Leaving one of the factors out might not be sufficient. Personally, I have not been on antibiotics for the last couple of years – so there is no direct link there for me. In addition, I have been experimenting with biotin and lactoferrin without any success – perhaps it needs to be done over a longer period of time.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on November 09, 2011
at 12:20 AM

Going VLC was the first time I ever got dandruff... so not sure about that advice. But some seem to get rid of it with LC. I imagine these folks have a better gut bacteria profile.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on November 09, 2011
at 12:16 AM

Thanks Rob! I am glad to help! I will add that start slowly with the Biotin... 300mcg, then 600mcg, then 900,mcg, then 1000, 2000, then jump up to 5000 and 10,000 dosages. on iHerb there are several 300mcg Biotins to start. I say this because many noticed acne cysts when jumping at too high dosages too quicky (much like Iodine). So far I have been taking it for 2 weeks at 300 and 600, now bumping up to 1000. Scalp looks great, skin is more moist.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 08, 2011
at 11:59 PM

It's scary how much your experience mirrors mine; VLC carb paleo mistake, crazy amount of topicals, lots of anitibiotics, and overtraining while undereating. Good answer. I will look into Biotin.

Ca1150430b1904659742ce2cad621c7d

(12540)

on November 07, 2011
at 10:51 PM

Me too -- lifelong SD and atopic D -- gets better, but never goes away. Would be nice to have clear skin for once... haven't had skin free of dermatitis since I was 2 weeks old.

E8839fa9288defedfe7a3bf0d5680e4c

(10)

on November 07, 2011
at 08:39 PM

I have tried going several weeks without shampoo - did not seem to make much of a difference unfortunately. I only use Ketoconazole shampoo now to get rid off symptoms on scalp/face.

E8839fa9288defedfe7a3bf0d5680e4c

(10)

on November 07, 2011
at 08:37 PM

Hi Nance Fats are typically quite high - I would guess 100-150 grams a day from grass feed beef/coconutoil/bacon and sometimes butter. Diet is genreally high protein (2g/kg) and moderate carbs (sweet potato) on training days (150 grams).

E91fd339d760ed76cc72570a679ebf5a

(2369)

on November 07, 2011
at 07:49 PM

Would love to hear more experiences with this too. My bf gets SD on his face. Paleo seemed to help when he tried it temporarily, but I'm still not sure the exact triggers (sugar? beer? stress? wheat?). He says stress.

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6 Answers

5
Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on November 08, 2011
at 11:49 PM

Sebhorreic dermatitis is three fold problem.

  1. An impaired skin barrier.
  2. Dysfunctional immune system.
  3. Fungal Infection of the skin.

There many different factors that can cause the three above but it is important to learn that it BEGINS and ONLY HAPPENS with 1. an impaired skin barrier. So... harsh topicals are incerdibly problematic (such as ketoconazole). Skin with a healthy barrier does not have .2 and 3.

But... it is easiest to eliminate .2 and .3 before taking care of .1

So... .3 the fungal infection of the skin can be eliminated or at least heavily tempered with oral antifungals like Fluconazole (several studies do show effifacy). Or topicals if you wish but good luck finding one that is gentle to the skin (many do report success with ACV and Coconut Oil... both are too harsh for parts of my skin so I do not use).

.2 Can be taken care of with Paleo-ish allergn free diet (gluten free defienitely, maybe dairy free), Vitamin D supplementation to sufficiency, adquete fatty acids (GLA and Fish Oil show good results in some) A & K2, Zinc, Iodine, Selenium and B vitamins (Biotin deficiency seems to be a huge player here... many anectodal cures of SD with high dose Biotin.. if you have been on many antibiotics for long periods of time you are probably very deficient as the intenstinal flora are the big source of Biotin). And of course, fermented foods and probiotics. Lots of anectodal reports around the web for these. Look into thyroid as well... many who have thyroid issues also have SD.

.1 This is the trickiest. Many report a complete clearance of dandruff/dermatitis after going no 'poo. Some only report good improvement, but no clearance. In these folks, the barrier is heavily damaged and needs some assistance to repair. There are several ideas for this... one is GLA supplementation (studies on oral and topical show clearance). Another is speficic products or oils/butters (such as shea or coco) that heal the skin barrier. Cetaphil Restoraderm has some glowing reviews, I came across a couple that claimed it cured their SD. Same with Cerave. Shea Butter has good anectodes too. Some peoples skin barrier is only midly damaged and heals with just simple water only washing.. others need some topical assitance.

My own personal SD improved with no poo... about 90% on the scalp and about 75% on the face. But a few spots remained... I went on a 8 week course of 200mg of Fluconazole and all the redness went away but the flaking remained... which leads me to believe that I still have a damaged skin barrier (most definitely true considering my topicals history) and/or a biotin deficiency (again, very probable looking at my antibiotic history). I am working on healing gut and a sub-clinical thyroid from VLC paleo and previous overtraining and undereating with cross country... my scalp dermatitis is 100% gone as we speak and my face is about 90-95% gone... all that remains is flaking. I am hesitant to try topicals for the barrier becaue previously topicals caused folliculitis for me (probably from the skin flaking off then clogging the pore)... but manually exfloliation helps.

I am currently about to try a 6 week course of 15 mins of dipping my face in a bowl of water mixed with Dead Sea Salt... seems to repair the skin barrier.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16477952

I am 100% sure that this a curable condition and the cure involves all three of these mechanisms that must be addressed. The difficulty is finding the most effective methods to address the three for you individually.. as topical and supplementation response varies.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on November 09, 2011
at 12:16 AM

Thanks Rob! I am glad to help! I will add that start slowly with the Biotin... 300mcg, then 600mcg, then 900,mcg, then 1000, 2000, then jump up to 5000 and 10,000 dosages. on iHerb there are several 300mcg Biotins to start. I say this because many noticed acne cysts when jumping at too high dosages too quicky (much like Iodine). So far I have been taking it for 2 weeks at 300 and 600, now bumping up to 1000. Scalp looks great, skin is more moist.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on November 08, 2011
at 11:59 PM

It's scary how much your experience mirrors mine; VLC carb paleo mistake, crazy amount of topicals, lots of anitibiotics, and overtraining while undereating. Good answer. I will look into Biotin.

E8839fa9288defedfe7a3bf0d5680e4c

(10)

on November 09, 2011
at 09:34 AM

Thanks for the extensive reply Bill - from what I can gather, it seems that the issue can be dealt with externally and/or internally. Leaving one of the factors out might not be sufficient. Personally, I have not been on antibiotics for the last couple of years – so there is no direct link there for me. In addition, I have been experimenting with biotin and lactoferrin without any success – perhaps it needs to be done over a longer period of time.

E8839fa9288defedfe7a3bf0d5680e4c

(10)

on May 12, 2012
at 08:35 AM

Bill - just checking in to see how things are going on your end?

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on May 14, 2012
at 03:28 AM

Hey Viktor! Going great on my end. Currently using jojoba oil as a moisturizer and eating paleo and my skin is wonderful at the moment. Hope it stays that way! For me, higher plant foods like fruits, veggies, tubers, nuts, and even some seeds and less animal foods seems to make a difference for me! The plant fats seem to make my skin look better. The jojoba oil is for extra healing!

A6a23e87167ea8418aebaf0061c195d7

on May 24, 2014
at 02:38 AM

Hi Bill 4, I'm not sure if you'll see this comment cause it's years later but I'm wondering if you managed to get rid of the clogged, flaking pore issue and fix your skin barrier?

I developed the same problem after a 7-month round of prescription creams (Retin-A) and antibiotics. My face was beet red and my barriers were totally gone, I immediately started getting awful flaky, crusty build-up that I had to scrub away. Anyway, that was a couple of years ago and my skin has healed a ton, the redness is pretty much completely gone and my barriers are improved but I still have the (cont...)

1
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 07, 2011
at 07:10 PM

Viktor, you didn't mention your preferred fat intake. I've found I get dandruff if I go too low-fat and it goes away when I hit the sat fats hard. I'm sure it could be many other things too.

E8839fa9288defedfe7a3bf0d5680e4c

(10)

on November 07, 2011
at 08:37 PM

Hi Nance Fats are typically quite high - I would guess 100-150 grams a day from grass feed beef/coconutoil/bacon and sometimes butter. Diet is genreally high protein (2g/kg) and moderate carbs (sweet potato) on training days (150 grams).

0
1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

on May 14, 2013
at 12:47 AM

I have SD and it drove me nuts for years. I tried everything. Finally, the only thing that worked for me was Ketoconazole cream applied 2x daily. In two weeks I went to 1x every other day or so. Completely cleared it up.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on May 14, 2013
at 12:53 AM

Is that prescription or could you get it OTC?

F00050d678de2dc749a86b4d3f2ffc0c

(321)

on July 26, 2013
at 06:49 PM

Google says OTC, in Colorado I had to get a script for Ketoconazole 2% Taro brand and it worked well. Used it mainly as anti-fungal. Last resort, I used desodine. Worked very well but it is a steroid.

0
B08519555abc99ee5f702be0e21aef34

on May 13, 2013
at 11:02 PM

I think trying to find the cause and fix it is the best thing to do, but in the meantime here is a treatment that relieves my symptoms using baking soda and apple cider vinegar:

In the shower, mix a few teaspoons of baking soda in a cup of warm water. I don't measure it out; it doesn't seem to require much precision. I leave a coffee cup in my shower for this. Rinse your hair and face with it, scrub your scalp and face with your hands and the mixture. I think the baking soda helps to fight the infection and the abrasiveness removes the dead skin that clumps on your face. Leave it on your face and scalp for a few minutes; I wash the rest of my body during this time while keeping my head out of the shower stream so the mixture doesn't get rinsed off. After a few minutes, rinse it off with shower water; scrub your face and scalp with your hands while you rinse. Then dilute some apple cider vinegar with water (you can use the same cup for this). I don't measure it out as it doesn't seem important, but I usually do around 1:5 vinegar to water. Rinse your face and scalp with it. I don't scrub at this point because the baking soda has removed all the clumpy stuff. Then rinse it off with shower water; I don't leave it on for very long although it's probably fine if you do. This might dry out your skin so put some lotion on after; I like Aveeno. If it makes your hair frizzy, try more vinegar next time. If your hair is too oily, less vinegar.

One time I tried rinsing the baking soda off with the diluted vinegar and it burned, so I don't recommend this.

I've tried a lot of other things in the past and this is the best; gets rid of my symptoms completely for about 2 days, so I do this every other day. This is the only way I wash my face and scalp; no shampoo or face wash.

I have stated trying to clear it up with diet changes. I started getting back pain and I think it is somehow connected to inflammation, autoimmune response, and SD. I don't mind the SD since I have this remedy, but I need to get rid of the back pain.

Good luck!

0
E167c0387a5f0b87bb1f2c3e6aec73a8

(1240)

on November 09, 2011
at 12:06 AM

def loose the taters (use milk pwo) drop the coconut oil (again use butter) and drop the soap and poo ( use only hot water) Moderate the sugar intake to 50gr max. ( on a busy day...) Im assuming you completely avoid any kind of seed oil / gluten and that you also eat some kind of fish, from time to time. if not supplement. also try to eat pastured yolks and meat. And Get Some Sun. If that doesn't work, just don't stress about it.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on November 09, 2011
at 12:20 AM

Going VLC was the first time I ever got dandruff... so not sure about that advice. But some seem to get rid of it with LC. I imagine these folks have a better gut bacteria profile.

0
D13278772f6612432bf53413fad4e7af

(801)

on November 07, 2011
at 08:29 PM

Most of my SD issues gradually disappeared when I stopped using shampoo about five years ago. Now it's just a pretty vigorous massage under running water--and my scalp produces much less oil and sebum than before. BTW, my occasional facial flare-ups seem tied to stress; a topical creme product called DermaZinc is a great quick remedy.

E8839fa9288defedfe7a3bf0d5680e4c

(10)

on November 07, 2011
at 08:39 PM

I have tried going several weeks without shampoo - did not seem to make much of a difference unfortunately. I only use Ketoconazole shampoo now to get rid off symptoms on scalp/face.

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