3

votes

is this a chink in paleo theory?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created December 15, 2012 at 3:35 AM

I saw a couple of new items on sciencedaily today:

Scientists 'Surprised' to Discover Very Early Ancestors Survived On Tropical Plants, New Study Suggests

Too Many Antibiotics? Bacterial Ecology That Lives On Humans Has Changed in Last 100 Years

The first one is pretty obvious from the title and from the second one I'm thinking that it may contribute to carb intolerance.

So what you think of these new science tidbits and how they fit in with paleo - because I'm sure my paleo-critical friends will surely be raising them as a point of conversation in the festive season get togethers.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 16, 2012
at 08:57 AM

Yw, and I believe it's just total mass or possibly total volume.

E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on December 16, 2012
at 07:01 AM

Got it - brain size and gut size. Brain size in cc's - is there a unit and range for gut size? Thanks.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 16, 2012
at 05:48 AM

@Colin, I agree. @paleotype, the species your article cites had an average brain size of around 450cc's. Cro-magnons had a brain size of 1600ish. There is a species wide inverse correlation between gut size and brain size, since they both require a lot of energy to run a trade off often occurs. http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2012/07/bad-news-for-big-brains.html . So basing modern nutritional advice on a species of apes with a comparatively large gut and small brain is nonsensical. Cro-magnons however are 20-40k years bc, pre agriculture and considered genetically identical to us.

7a6529ea25b655132fe58d793f95547a

(2040)

on December 16, 2012
at 01:44 AM

But I also think that looking at older periods can be helpful too. Not being afraid of fruit eating lots of leafy greens etc.

7a6529ea25b655132fe58d793f95547a

(2040)

on December 16, 2012
at 01:42 AM

I would say it matters more at the transition from the australopiths, to the hominid line where are teeth and guts shrunk and we stood fully upright like we do today. Also important would be 200,000 years where we finally see anatomically modern humans, and also the differences between neanderthal and homo sapiens would be important I think.

E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on December 16, 2012
at 12:45 AM

So what you're saying is that 3.5MY ago it doesn't really matter what ancestors ate. But it matters when - 1MY, 500KY 50KY? What's the demarcation point

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 15, 2012
at 02:00 PM

Lol, through max bounty questions one could hypothetically transfer 500 points at a time.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 15, 2012
at 01:28 PM

Can you do that? Time to start searching the caves for some corn cobs.

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2 Answers

9
Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 15, 2012
at 04:01 AM

No.

3.5 million years ago is over a million years before we even stood up straight.. Those are considered our pre-human primate ancestors. We evolved from them probably and with that came less gut more brain. As for bacterial content changing, yes that's what happens when roughly 50% of the earth's population's calories come from refined carbs. I don't see any 'chinks in the armor'. That first article refers to us before we even had stone tools lmao. If you want to find a chink then look for cro-magnons that ate a high plant low meat diet, if you find that you can have all my points, lol.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 15, 2012
at 01:28 PM

Can you do that? Time to start searching the caves for some corn cobs.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 15, 2012
at 02:00 PM

Lol, through max bounty questions one could hypothetically transfer 500 points at a time.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 16, 2012
at 08:57 AM

Yw, and I believe it's just total mass or possibly total volume.

7a6529ea25b655132fe58d793f95547a

(2040)

on December 16, 2012
at 01:44 AM

But I also think that looking at older periods can be helpful too. Not being afraid of fruit eating lots of leafy greens etc.

E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on December 16, 2012
at 12:45 AM

So what you're saying is that 3.5MY ago it doesn't really matter what ancestors ate. But it matters when - 1MY, 500KY 50KY? What's the demarcation point

E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on December 16, 2012
at 07:01 AM

Got it - brain size and gut size. Brain size in cc's - is there a unit and range for gut size? Thanks.

7a6529ea25b655132fe58d793f95547a

(2040)

on December 16, 2012
at 01:42 AM

I would say it matters more at the transition from the australopiths, to the hominid line where are teeth and guts shrunk and we stood fully upright like we do today. Also important would be 200,000 years where we finally see anatomically modern humans, and also the differences between neanderthal and homo sapiens would be important I think.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on December 16, 2012
at 05:48 AM

@Colin, I agree. @paleotype, the species your article cites had an average brain size of around 450cc's. Cro-magnons had a brain size of 1600ish. There is a species wide inverse correlation between gut size and brain size, since they both require a lot of energy to run a trade off often occurs. http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2012/07/bad-news-for-big-brains.html . So basing modern nutritional advice on a species of apes with a comparatively large gut and small brain is nonsensical. Cro-magnons however are 20-40k years bc, pre agriculture and considered genetically identical to us.

2
Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 15, 2012
at 01:41 PM

The important word in the first header is "survived". At some point we probably survived on plankton, but our modern ancestors date from only about 40-50,000 years.

If you buy that, you wouldn't expect much change in 100 years. The only major carb intolerance is for lactose, and adult adaptation to that has increased over the last 10,000 years. Protein intolerances (gluten and casein) same thing. Loss of these adapted tolerances is probably more a result of dietary shifts and loss of the necessary enzymes and gut bacteria.

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