1

votes

Durianrider on paleo diet

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created February 24, 2011 at 2:32 PM

Durian rider did some new blog on paleo diet. He analyzed the looking of some paleo gurus, how he call it. Its much stuff what he tells. The new video is interesting. He is very active and can run well. That is fascinating. I dont wanna judge both side. Paleo Diet and Vegan Diet have good things.

Maybe if you fight through this informations Durianrider blogs, you have your own opinion and can post it here. Its always on that to make a diet and lifestyle more healthy and vibrant. So we feel full of energy and life. For me this vegan have a shining light. im between vegan and paleo.

http://durianrider.org/2011/02/24/mark-sisson-and-the-low-carb-cru-do-these-guys-have-a-clue/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy-Nq2wiaEk&feature=related

5662d1262516ccbd70249e7aeaf58901

(681)

on March 28, 2012
at 10:45 PM

Low fat raw veganism destroys people's lives. Negativity is entirely appropriate! Some people may do well on it for a short time, but everyone almost certainly will have major problems on it in the medium to long term.

Bee4e0fda817da9857443bd40f552a75

on October 14, 2011
at 07:29 PM

Absolutely true.Raw frutarian diet gave me so many issues from gum inflammation to leaky gut and Crohn's.Last year things became worse and i started suffering Restless leg syndrome.Veganism is the worst mistake i made in my teens.Now dealing with diseases.

C61399790c6531a0af344ab0c40048f1

on April 14, 2011
at 09:12 PM

I think if you actually read Keith's book you'll find that she was definitely vegan for at least some of those 20 years. At one point she was so concerned about eating anything that would cause harm that she attempted to live on air (not for long obviously!!).

0bcefaa82dc94f93ce705f86e235f335

(1591)

on February 25, 2011
at 06:26 PM

@Melissa, I was with him until he cited the Unabomber as an inspiration. :/

Eea4c0f072bb5caa74c1fbe6dfab5f46

(942)

on February 25, 2011
at 04:19 PM

Durianrider did not read Keith's book and has no idea what she actually says. It's out of context. He takes sound bites and responds to them intellectually. He only reads books about vegan body building.

5edbf85deaf83e13b176df023abb154d

(1293)

on February 25, 2011
at 02:58 PM

I agree with this and the guy needs to at least be shutdown from making libelous statments.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 25, 2011
at 01:44 PM

http://ymlp.com/zgvALg "There is great debate in the health world about the topic of the "paleo" or "primal" diet. This Sunday, Gabriel Cousens, M.D., will counterpoint this perspective on diet and lifestyle. Additionally, he will be responding to the Great Health Debate hosted by Kevin Gianni, as a whole. It's sure to be exciting and clarifying, so please tune in!"

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 25, 2011
at 11:36 AM

Im curious what you have to share

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 25, 2011
at 11:33 AM

its there are bannanas shipped anyway. And NY isnt that far away from bannan growing places.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 25, 2011
at 11:30 AM

There are people who eat majorly plants and other eat majorly meat. If chimpanzes eat meat or not. If gorillaz and bonobos eat meat. The question is more in which circumstances they eat which food. Animals aren not so sticking to their diet cause they need to adapt. The question which comes up is: Would they eat prepared paleo meals? I dont know. Are there studies and data on what animals, i mean apes eat in semi_wilderness aka wilderness retreats. Do they accept cooked food, or what food do they prefer?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 25, 2011
at 11:30 AM

i rather suggest to be more open minded. you for some its good to stick so hard. Others go fine whith a more open view on diets. Both diets try to avoid the usual food, like sugar white flour and all this fancy colors and tastes.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 25, 2011
at 11:25 AM

extreme what does it mean. Be honest to yourself* If you look at what people ussually eat and what is sold in shops. And also how people move and keep them fit. In this view paleo is a extreme

101b3a5c96d313d22262f65bdff20acf

(539)

on February 25, 2011
at 03:34 AM

Snerk. Pretty sure chimpanzees eat meat regularly. I know they don't eat tofu.

95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on February 25, 2011
at 02:43 AM

Thanks! I am actually getting some bloodwork done in the next two days in the hopes of getting referred to an endocrinologist to sort out what is going on. I will only consider hormone replacement if it turns out that I am totally broken beyond repair, but hopefully I can find someone who can work with me on a non-prescription level to optimize things even more for my particular needs. (Not holding my breath on that--I very well may just be sharing lab results here and asking for thoughts.)

95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on February 25, 2011
at 02:35 AM

Thanks for that article. I love the line in Durianrider's article: " Its 2011 and its time we started living like humans instead of neanderthals." It's like, dude, if you want to go there--it's 2011, time to live like humans instead of PRIMATES. I know there is some naive lapses into Edenic thought in Paleo, but 30BADers take it to a whole new misanthropic level. Not to mention one that is very misinformed about primate diet and behavior.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 25, 2011
at 01:41 AM

former Durianrider acolyte dishes on his diet http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/3484206816/interview-with-an-ex-vegan-erim-bilgin

95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on February 25, 2011
at 01:21 AM

And the foods that 80/10/10 folks fetishize even less so--eating hundreds of bananas a week in addition to mangoes, papayas, and so on in say, new york, year round is so crazy to me, especially if one touts the superiority of their diet for decreased environmental impact. it's one thing in a tropical locale, but jeez.

6d9b8105790efa406618c72e840f2093

on February 25, 2011
at 12:40 AM

What are the "valid points" they bring up? Care to list some here?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on February 25, 2011
at 12:35 AM

Yeah, I had reactive hypoglycemia really bad and couldn't even fathom going 6-7 hours without eating. I hope you get your hormones balanced out soon...I suppose that as long as you're just supplying your body with all of the raw materials, it will eventually straighten out all of the feedback loops. Good luck.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on February 24, 2011
at 10:49 PM

Grains are vegan, but mostly likely not sustainable, at least the way we're growing them.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on February 24, 2011
at 10:47 PM

I wouldn't consider paleo extreme, but I guess some might. It doesn't seem that ridiculous to eat meat and plants...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 24, 2011
at 10:14 PM

Hallo Jules* i like being here so different places to hang around. and so much nice people.

95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on February 24, 2011
at 10:09 PM

oh, and the other sad part is--in addition to better health, i have a much deeper love and respect for animals now, and way more knowledge about agricultural systems, than i ever did when i was vegan. seemingly permanent hormonal problems for what results to almost nothing. sigh.

95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on February 24, 2011
at 10:06 PM

right there with you. i was just talking to my boyfriend about how sad it is that it has taken me being thirty-one years old to have a lot of the firsts that many other people had as adolescents: a regular menstrual cycle, being able to do a *single* pullup, not wanting to punch someone if i don't eat every few hours. as melodramatic as it sounds, veganism stole a lot of my life that i'll never get back. i'm glad you feel good now--i feel better, but still am struggling daily with a dramatically wacky endocrine balance and damaged digestive system.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 24, 2011
at 05:33 PM

my question is, if there is a middle way. Doing paleo for some month and then swith on a whole fruit diet. Im not for the fruitarian neither for the paleo. I feel between. I met both people and i got different impressions. For different lifestyles there are different eays and nutritions. I was vegetarian and also raw food for a time, i remember bad times, hard digestion, also good times. And i hear so much how important it is to have a plant based diet. One thing i heard is that its only view folks on the earth are really genetically used to eat a high meat or all meat diet. ...exploring

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 24, 2011
at 05:27 PM

thank you phoenix, i understand more why people choose poleo or fruitarian diet. I like the calm spirit of paleo people.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 24, 2011
at 05:24 PM

you understans what i meant. I want to point out a middle way between this two extreme lifestyles

F9a0b72f38860d7601afd5a45bb53394

(3618)

on February 24, 2011
at 05:03 PM

I should add that I know someone who works in a transplant clinic and she told me VUR is a risk factor for end-stage renal disease later in life. So it's not just an inconvenience requiring surgery. Kidney failure is one of the qualifying disorders that will get you placed on Medicare in the United States. Think of the harm we're doing to future adults and the future expense to taxpayers when so many more people will need dialysis and transplants.

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on February 24, 2011
at 04:02 PM

@Christo: Although this isn't a productive comment, I find the term 'moronothoner' amusing.

7e1064164e012a1ead098098245b1cd4

(1217)

on February 24, 2011
at 02:37 PM

Durianrider is not just a vegan, he is a fruitarian and quite militant (IMO). Mark's views are well rounded but Durianrider's are very one-sided.

  • 77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

    asked by

    (78467)
  • Views
    8.2K
  • Last Activity
    1400D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

14 Answers

14
F9a0b72f38860d7601afd5a45bb53394

(3618)

on February 24, 2011
at 05:01 PM

Vegan diet have no good things. Vegan diet suck. Vegans crazy to follow vegan diet. Feel sorry for them.

After three years of a "female problem" that kept me confined at home at least one day a month for fear of an accident, and no health insurance but fearful of what would be found if I went to Planned Parenthood (I have a young daughter), I read something on the Weston Price website about vitamin A being important for reproductive health, and how some people can't convert beta carotene well enough to benefit from it. I was getting beta carotene in vegetables and supplements. I got worried. I started taking retinol derived from fish oil.

I got better. My cycle even normalized.

Did some more digging and come to find out that not only can't infants and young children convert beta carotene to vitamin A, A is also important in several developmental processes in utero. If babies can't convert beta carotene, it follows fetuses can't either. Even worse, experts are telling moms not to eat liver while pregnant, for fear of birth defects. But in my digging I found out embryos are perfectly capable of regulating how much vitamin A is in their systems. I'm going to guess fetuses are too, although the study didn't cover that. Yet another lie from Mainstream Nutrition. Or a bunch of yahoos pronouncing things from on high without doing their due diligence.

My girl paid the price well before I had problems. She was born with defects to her eliminatory system such that the valves in her bladder didn't work right and her urine would reflux back into her kidneys. Her right kidney is also noticeably undersized--some asymmetry is considered normal, but hers was extreme. In my research I found this is one of the developmental processes vitamin A mediates--it determines how the ureteral bud will develop, into both the nephrons (filtering structures) in the kidney as well as the ureter itself (tube going into the bladder). The kidney develops later in pregnancy. That probably explains why she's not vision-impaired too. I must have had enough stores to develop her eyes but started running low later in pregnancy. Good lord.

That's just vitamin A. Think about all the infertile people out there. Or about the fact (according to the Mayo Clinic) that urinary tract defects are the most common birth defects in the Western world. A lot of cases of VUR (the developmental problem my daughter had) go undiagnosed because they're not severe enough to get a doctor's attention. For that matter, there are a lot of little kids needing glasses, even if they're not blind.

Now consider that on a vegan diet, we can't get methylcobalamin (proper form of B12), vitamin D3 (you can only find D2 in mushrooms--there is no D in any other non-animal food, and sunshine's not always enough), vitamin K2 mk-4 (most vegetable foods only have K1, poorly converted), or a whole lot of minerals that are not bound up in some noxious chemical or another. Especially not if you eat all your veggies raw.

A vegan can get away with it for a while if they were healthy to begin with, or if they are not too far damaged. With several of the vitamins you store them for a while. Some of the B vitamins fall into this category even though they're water-soluble; so does A. But that's going to run out eventually. You'll feel good now, dumping the SAD junk food. You will feel like crap later if you keep up the way you are going. Just ask Lierre Keith. Even for vegans who stay the course, I hear a lot of them cheat from time to time. With cheese, of all things. Guess they are really missing their vitamin K2.

Do what you want, but don't think for a minute we don't consider our dietary habits as well, just because we didn't make your choice. And we based ours in science, not in feelings about cute widdle fuzzy animals. I have five cats. Don't tell me I don't like animals. I think they'd hotly disagree with you.

F9a0b72f38860d7601afd5a45bb53394

(3618)

on February 24, 2011
at 05:03 PM

I should add that I know someone who works in a transplant clinic and she told me VUR is a risk factor for end-stage renal disease later in life. So it's not just an inconvenience requiring surgery. Kidney failure is one of the qualifying disorders that will get you placed on Medicare in the United States. Think of the harm we're doing to future adults and the future expense to taxpayers when so many more people will need dialysis and transplants.

11
95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on February 24, 2011
at 09:21 PM

While I believe that ultimately a vegan diet is unsustainable for pretty much everyone, I do think that the hostility between raw foodists and paleo folks can be kind of childish and unproductive on both sides. There are points in common that can be used for fostering important conversations about health, well being, food politics etc, but I feel like those take a back seat to name calling and "my diet is better than your diet" bs.

My stint as a raw vegan was a mixed bag. I felt better than I did on a junk food vegan diet by far--no doubt due in large part to the elimination of gluten, soy, seed oils and processed industrial foods, but I was still failing to thrive. While years of vegetarianism and veganism had gotten me accustomed to sacrificing physical health for vague ideals, it was the increased psychological burdens of raw veganism that forced me to abandon the lifestyle. Obsession with purity, inability to eat with others who weren't also "enlightened", intense food cravings, basing my life around meals, sometimes feeling guilty that i wasn't going "all the way" by becoming low-fat raw or frutarian, and increasing paranoia and spaciness were so terrible and have all been alleviated by paleo. While there are some aspects of the paleosphere that get me down sometimes--occasional smugness, tendencies towards overwhelming (and at times similarly cultlike) scientism, forays into misogyny--nothing comes close to icking me out like these aforementioned raw vegan traits. I also can't take the pseudo-religious aspects (enzymes and superfoods are are totally the new angels, everything else is the new devil) and get really sad when I see something like this video--confusing sugar highs and oxygen deprivation with transcendence and as a justification for his diet which is probably bad for him, and definitely bad for the planet he claims to be respecting and communing with, given that the bulk of his diet is imported. Watching long rambling WTF frutarian diatribes get me too. In addition to showing an embarrassing absence of knowledge about butchery and like a million other things, they make me think back to how lack of mental acuity (brain fog, inability to hold a thought, tangential thinking, mushy reasoning skills) was often seen as an asset in the raw vegan circles I ran in--it indicated gentleness (even when being really nasty--witness 7:50 on), an "open consciousness", and operating on a higher plane of existence. Ugh.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on February 24, 2011
at 10:49 PM

Grains are vegan, but mostly likely not sustainable, at least the way we're growing them.

95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on February 25, 2011
at 01:21 AM

And the foods that 80/10/10 folks fetishize even less so--eating hundreds of bananas a week in addition to mangoes, papayas, and so on in say, new york, year round is so crazy to me, especially if one touts the superiority of their diet for decreased environmental impact. it's one thing in a tropical locale, but jeez.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 25, 2011
at 11:33 AM

its there are bannanas shipped anyway. And NY isnt that far away from bannan growing places.

9
76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on February 24, 2011
at 04:33 PM

Here's a previous thread discussing the 30 bananas-a-day way of life:

http://paleohacks.com/questions/7562/your-thoughts-on-the-30-bananas-a-day-site#axzz1Et6dOVdO

My 2 cents:

Even if eating extreme amounts of fruit and pounds upon pounds of greens exclusively everyday was the healthiest way of living, I would not do it because I would hate to be sitting on the toilet all day everyday. Sure, some people may love the life of spending all day either eating, running, or being their toilet's best friend, but that's not something I would be into.

Here's a good post by Don Matesz that points out that humans, contrary to popular 30-bananas-a-day belief, are not chimpanzees:

http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/search/label/Raw%20food%20diets

One more point. A few years ago, I was at a fork in the road on my health journey. My two paths were the raw fruititarian approach, or the paleo approach. It was the calm, intelligent, confidence of people like Mark Sisson, Kurt Harris, Robb Wolf, Loren Cordain, etc. that helped me choose. They talked about health intelligently, referenced studies, used common sense. When people offer objections to the paleo diet, they respond calmly, intelligently, and scientifically. They will admit if they were wrong about something. Then you have the 30-bananas-a-day side. Every single time I've seen someone object to the 30bad lifestyle on the website, the response is usually "LOL KEEP EATING DEAD FLESH ENJOY UR HEART DISEASE LOL HUMANS ARE THE EXACT SAME AS CHIMPANZEES" and then they ban the user who dared question their cult. That's right, I said cult.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 24, 2011
at 05:27 PM

thank you phoenix, i understand more why people choose poleo or fruitarian diet. I like the calm spirit of paleo people.

101b3a5c96d313d22262f65bdff20acf

(539)

on February 25, 2011
at 03:34 AM

Snerk. Pretty sure chimpanzees eat meat regularly. I know they don't eat tofu.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 25, 2011
at 11:30 AM

There are people who eat majorly plants and other eat majorly meat. If chimpanzes eat meat or not. If gorillaz and bonobos eat meat. The question is more in which circumstances they eat which food. Animals aren not so sticking to their diet cause they need to adapt. The question which comes up is: Would they eat prepared paleo meals? I dont know. Are there studies and data on what animals, i mean apes eat in semi_wilderness aka wilderness retreats. Do they accept cooked food, or what food do they prefer?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 25, 2011
at 11:30 AM

i rather suggest to be more open minded. you for some its good to stick so hard. Others go fine whith a more open view on diets. Both diets try to avoid the usual food, like sugar white flour and all this fancy colors and tastes.

95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on February 25, 2011
at 02:35 AM

Thanks for that article. I love the line in Durianrider's article: " Its 2011 and its time we started living like humans instead of neanderthals." It's like, dude, if you want to go there--it's 2011, time to live like humans instead of PRIMATES. I know there is some naive lapses into Edenic thought in Paleo, but 30BADers take it to a whole new misanthropic level. Not to mention one that is very misinformed about primate diet and behavior.

7
Medium avatar

(12379)

on February 24, 2011
at 04:14 PM

I think that Oak0y is trying to start a discussion on here regarding the efficacy or effiectiveness of both ways of eating.

While I certainly don't agree with the delivery of Durianriders message - his diet seems to be working well for him and his followers - which is GREAT for them. I wont be following that fruititarian lifestyle any time soon (even though it would be tasty for a day or two).

I really admire those people who can cycle and run as much as Durianrider does - great for him - I have never been a person like that - and will never be - so I need to have a diet that reflects my lifestyle.

What I really don't like is the negativity spued out by both sides to each other. I think that we should support others when they are making positive choices - no matter what the choices are and why they make them - we are all different - and we all make the best decisions that we can for ourselves.

It seems to me that both ways of eating have their own pros and cons - I think that you need to align yourself with what works for you!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 24, 2011
at 05:24 PM

you understans what i meant. I want to point out a middle way between this two extreme lifestyles

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on February 24, 2011
at 10:47 PM

I wouldn't consider paleo extreme, but I guess some might. It doesn't seem that ridiculous to eat meat and plants...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 25, 2011
at 11:25 AM

extreme what does it mean. Be honest to yourself* If you look at what people ussually eat and what is sold in shops. And also how people move and keep them fit. In this view paleo is a extreme

5662d1262516ccbd70249e7aeaf58901

(681)

on March 28, 2012
at 10:45 PM

Low fat raw veganism destroys people's lives. Negativity is entirely appropriate! Some people may do well on it for a short time, but everyone almost certainly will have major problems on it in the medium to long term.

6
Medium avatar

on February 24, 2011
at 09:52 PM

I really regret being a vegan for 8 years. It's going to take me a long time to add back the muscle that I lost along the way (5'10" 141, seriously) and who knows what other long-term effects that had. I really wish I could undo that part of my life. Here's hoping that I am resilient enough to bounce back fully. Sure I feel great all the time, but I get the feeling that something might be lurking underneath the surface.

95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on February 25, 2011
at 02:43 AM

Thanks! I am actually getting some bloodwork done in the next two days in the hopes of getting referred to an endocrinologist to sort out what is going on. I will only consider hormone replacement if it turns out that I am totally broken beyond repair, but hopefully I can find someone who can work with me on a non-prescription level to optimize things even more for my particular needs. (Not holding my breath on that--I very well may just be sharing lab results here and asking for thoughts.)

95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on February 24, 2011
at 10:09 PM

oh, and the other sad part is--in addition to better health, i have a much deeper love and respect for animals now, and way more knowledge about agricultural systems, than i ever did when i was vegan. seemingly permanent hormonal problems for what results to almost nothing. sigh.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on February 25, 2011
at 12:35 AM

Yeah, I had reactive hypoglycemia really bad and couldn't even fathom going 6-7 hours without eating. I hope you get your hormones balanced out soon...I suppose that as long as you're just supplying your body with all of the raw materials, it will eventually straighten out all of the feedback loops. Good luck.

95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on February 24, 2011
at 10:06 PM

right there with you. i was just talking to my boyfriend about how sad it is that it has taken me being thirty-one years old to have a lot of the firsts that many other people had as adolescents: a regular menstrual cycle, being able to do a *single* pullup, not wanting to punch someone if i don't eat every few hours. as melodramatic as it sounds, veganism stole a lot of my life that i'll never get back. i'm glad you feel good now--i feel better, but still am struggling daily with a dramatically wacky endocrine balance and damaged digestive system.

6
89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e

(10299)

on February 24, 2011
at 03:11 PM

oak0y,

If you doubt between a paleo diet and a vegan diet, I think you don't understand the main premise of paleo diets. Homo sapiens is not vegan.

5
6d9b8105790efa406618c72e840f2093

on February 24, 2011
at 11:55 PM

How can he legally commit defamation against Sisson and DeVany like that? One of them should step up to the plate legally and shut him and his big mouth down.

Accusations like steroids and hgh ought to be taken seriously by people who make a living in the "get healthy" realm.

5edbf85deaf83e13b176df023abb154d

(1293)

on February 25, 2011
at 02:58 PM

I agree with this and the guy needs to at least be shutdown from making libelous statments.

4
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 25, 2011
at 02:25 PM

http://health.ninemsn.com.au/dietandnutrition/nutrition/695434/meat-versus-a-vegetarian-diet " Harley Remember, Harley completely cuts out anything to do with animal products and relies purely on raw fruit, veggies and nuts.

His results have got Susie really worried: "My biggest concern is that your vitamin B12 is one of the lowest clinical levels we have ever seen!"

Harley's B12 was just 78. That's drastically lower than the normal intake range from 145 to 637 and means our vegan could be susceptible to anaemia, blurry vision and loss of feeling in the hands and feet in the long term.

"In the case of vegans, it's really up to them if they decide to supplement with B12. It is primarily from animal-based food so it's probably worth him discussing it with his GP or medical specialist," says Susie.

On the positive side the rest of Harley's results were perfectly normal."

Remember, that was after only a eating his diet for less than 3 years. The only good part of this equation is that Harley has been snipped (he said on his FB page) and won't be subjecting any children to his ideology. Go to google scholar and search for vegan + infant + b12. Responsible science-based vegans realize their diet is about animals and not about health, so they supplement accordingly.

Bee4e0fda817da9857443bd40f552a75

on October 14, 2011
at 07:29 PM

Absolutely true.Raw frutarian diet gave me so many issues from gum inflammation to leaky gut and Crohn's.Last year things became worse and i started suffering Restless leg syndrome.Veganism is the worst mistake i made in my teens.Now dealing with diseases.

4
8c4e1730b7a93894afcf8f32f84b50aa

on February 25, 2011
at 01:13 AM

oak0y,

In considering your hopes regarding finding some common (perhaps middle) ground somewhere between the 'good' of veganism and that of paleo, let me direct you to the Wikipedia entry for this common logical fallacy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation

"An individual demonstrating the false compromise fallacy implies that the positions being considered represent extremes of a continuum of opinions, and that such extremes are always wrong, and the middle ground is always correct."

I'm not implying that that's the entirety of what you're saying, but I think it's part of the issue with this question.

Cheers! -Baz

2
1bc18852894dad9d6dddfb3dfed49ab3

(341)

on February 24, 2011
at 04:21 PM

If you ask him why there are so many ex-vegans turning to meat eating he is going to give his standard reply "ahhh mate, they just did not eat enough calories from sweet fruit, not enough water, and not enough sleep". He has no other argument.

2
24fcc21452ebe39c032be6801d6bbadd

(9812)

on February 24, 2011
at 03:18 PM

I am not a fan of Durianrider and I don't like all the hypocrisy on their 30BAD website- they proclaim to be so peaceful and positive, but he spews a lot of hateful stuff. All that long-distance cycling and running he does is unnatural, in my opinion, and he uses an unnatural diet to support all that unnatural activity. A lot of those fruitarians seem to value the lives of animals more than their own, and a lot of them look very thin and sickly, from the videos I have seen of their "retreats."

I see you are from Germany- meine Mutter ist auch! Ich kenne nicht viel Deutsch :(

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 24, 2011
at 10:14 PM

Hallo Jules* i like being here so different places to hang around. and so much nice people.

2
A3e654929c08c0723607842656b57f8f

(834)

on February 24, 2011
at 02:38 PM

Oak0y: What is your question?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 24, 2011
at 05:33 PM

my question is, if there is a middle way. Doing paleo for some month and then swith on a whole fruit diet. Im not for the fruitarian neither for the paleo. I feel between. I met both people and i got different impressions. For different lifestyles there are different eays and nutritions. I was vegetarian and also raw food for a time, i remember bad times, hard digestion, also good times. And i hear so much how important it is to have a plant based diet. One thing i heard is that its only view folks on the earth are really genetically used to eat a high meat or all meat diet. ...exploring

1
Fd504de9b242f4cd7009db70af5e2121

(558)

on February 24, 2011
at 03:56 PM

those people are straight sh*t talking skinny moronothon idiots that NOBODY likes..if that resonates with you then go for it.

"Of course I like animals,I am one"

4e40d2b9e1a762949a25b958762aa10d

(762)

on February 24, 2011
at 04:02 PM

@Christo: Although this isn't a productive comment, I find the term 'moronothoner' amusing.

-1
97ae5a3b89c8ac30e45bfc72749b0b71

on February 25, 2011
at 12:39 AM

www.veganstrength.org www.veganbodybuilding.com

What are peoples thoughts on these sites? Long term vegans too.

Lierre Keith was a vegetarian, not a vegan apparently. So she is lying to everyone in her book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJVGOvpvkXc

Im not a vegan but am doing lots of homework by listening to the elite vegan athletes and they do raise some valid points.

This is a good debate. Thanks to the OP for bringing it up.

6d9b8105790efa406618c72e840f2093

on February 25, 2011
at 12:40 AM

What are the "valid points" they bring up? Care to list some here?

Eea4c0f072bb5caa74c1fbe6dfab5f46

(942)

on February 25, 2011
at 04:19 PM

Durianrider did not read Keith's book and has no idea what she actually says. It's out of context. He takes sound bites and responds to them intellectually. He only reads books about vegan body building.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 25, 2011
at 11:36 AM

Im curious what you have to share

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 25, 2011
at 01:44 PM

http://ymlp.com/zgvALg "There is great debate in the health world about the topic of the "paleo" or "primal" diet. This Sunday, Gabriel Cousens, M.D., will counterpoint this perspective on diet and lifestyle. Additionally, he will be responding to the Great Health Debate hosted by Kevin Gianni, as a whole. It's sure to be exciting and clarifying, so please tune in!"

C61399790c6531a0af344ab0c40048f1

on April 14, 2011
at 09:12 PM

I think if you actually read Keith's book you'll find that she was definitely vegan for at least some of those 20 years. At one point she was so concerned about eating anything that would cause harm that she attempted to live on air (not for long obviously!!).

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!