3

votes

Does paleo rationalize over-eating?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 21, 2012 at 2:26 PM

The reason I ask is because I notice that this is the only place where it is seen as a good thing to consume virtually without restriction things like butter, cream, coconut oil, animal fats, and meat (fatty beef seems to be a favorite).

So, is paleo over-fed by rationalizing over-eating on fats and animals?

E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on February 02, 2013
at 01:55 AM

@ Michael - haha.. indeed for some people there is no such thing - until they see themselves in a 3-way mirror under full light. Overeating is ignoring the satiety signals from the brain which results in a chronic state of excess adiposity

Ed7403e397077dd1acdbf25c7f6e56ce

(3452)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:42 PM

@ foreveryoung... I never understood IF to promote or excuse overeating... I don't approach it that way, and I'm thinking anyone who has success with IF doesn't either. I am really beginning to see a whole bunch of false information on IF around here. Too bad, it's really a very useful and effective approach if pursued intelligently.

59fa7cd87fb9d669adf21e5cf3e7ada5

on October 24, 2012
at 12:30 PM

I think a perfect example of this is the gentleman blogger who decided to add a sweet potato a day to his diet but couldn't eat the sweet potato without adding three tablespoons of butter.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on October 23, 2012
at 05:36 PM

Harry- How in history would it be possible to kill an animal and feed on it for a number of days without access to refrigeration?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 23, 2012
at 04:51 PM

Meat is an effective calorie metering device. No glycemic spike, just steady nutrient delivery over many hours.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 23, 2012
at 04:06 AM

+1 nature provided the primary portion control - satiety mechanisms were secondary

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 23, 2012
at 04:01 AM

The negative aspect is that it seems very difficult to agree on a set of **basic principles**.. A reenactment is something that can be relied upon to reasonably reach consensus. However, when it comes to principles, individual interpretation becomes becomes very subjective, as is often the case here at PH. The modern version of killing an animal and feeding on it for a number of days is not the equivalent of going shopping at the local butcher for processed meat.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 22, 2012
at 05:06 PM

Right now I'm reading the sad story of the end of hunt-and-gather among the central Willamette Valley tribes. Stories of mothers killing their children to placate their angry and increasingly unsuccessful hunter-mates. A way of living that had worked for 10,000 years very abruptly came to an end, with literally no availability of food.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 22, 2012
at 03:59 AM

Overeating how? By calories? (If so, the answer would generally be no, on paleo calories tend to be lower). Or eating "too much", in your veiw, of a certain type of food? Ie, are you suggesting people shouldnt be eating plenty of animal foods? If this is the case, your question would probably be considered subjective congecture, especially if you dont define what you personally consider an appropriate or healthful amount.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on October 21, 2012
at 10:01 PM

I don't think taking ideas that worked from ancestral diets and applying them in a way that fits our modern society is a negative thing. I'm not going for reenactment - I'm looking for the basic principles that can then be expressed in a targeted, individual way.

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on October 21, 2012
at 06:55 PM

i have to agree with you, kyle. while i was a fruitarian, it was easy to eat 2500-3000 calories a day because i was so hungry all the time. since i stared paleo, i get full on 1500-1800 calories a day.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on October 21, 2012
at 05:16 PM

@alligator. Every single scientific study has shown that people who eat according to a paleo style VOLUNTARILY reduce their caloric intake wrt their baseline and the control group. So to suggest that it rationalizes over-eating it way off base.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on October 21, 2012
at 05:14 PM

@alligator, I'm not sure who you read, but Sisson and Wolf both talk about this. So does Kresser, Attia, and Guyenet.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on October 21, 2012
at 05:13 PM

@foreveryong -- who said IF pushes overeating or that it was about caloric restriction? It is a tool for monitoring your food and changing your gene expressions.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:50 PM

One very serious defect in Paleo is the tendency to Westernize. Paleo borrows bits and pieces from ancestral diets but doesn't come close to emulating them.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:44 PM

Yes some of paleo does encourage eating ad libitum, but not all of it. Focusing on dietary stratagems leads in one direction, while focusing on cultures(Kitavan, Amerind, central African) leads in another. Both directions lead away from processed foods.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:36 PM

Agreed but add eat to satisfy emotional needs. If life is devoid of satisfaction, food is fulfilling. Sort of.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:31 PM

I agree with both of you fine Paleo gentlemen. Some of the questions here are just scary stupid when it comes to people's extreme relationships with food, but I think those probably stand out more and happens more on this site. I don't think it's necessarily representative of the average Paleo/Primal eater. The crazies just come out of the woodwork here :)

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:28 PM

I'm not trying to be argumentative...I'm just sitting here with nothing else to do ;).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:21 PM

Those are good points. I guess the question encouraged some selection bias (recollecting the negative aspects and not the positives) that I was not cautious enough to notice. I don't want to continue going back and forth but your points are well taken.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:09 PM

If you take just what you see here as the state of paleo, then you are studying the people with the most problems and drawing an incorrect conclusion about the rest of the population IMO....that is why I always refer people to the books rather than this web site.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:06 PM

"I think that paleo has been corrupted (taken over) by unhealthy people with unhealthy food relationships, and that is why the OP is under the impression that paleo-rationalizes overeating".....Oh come on! I think you should both look at this board for what it really is...its a cross section of people most likely to have health issues OR questions about implementing the paleo lifestyle. It is no more a good representation of paleo at large than a food questionaire sent once every 15 years would portray your lifestyle at large.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:06 PM

and I think that you would agree that paleo has shifted towards a more negative view of food over time that encourages bad relationships (i.e. fructose, omega 6). I think you and I both agree that whole fruits and nuts are both healthy foods, and the fructose in these fruits and the omega 6 in these nuts are of no problem when not eaten in excess.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:04 PM

...so above when I say I drop down to around 140lbs, I mean I drop muscle mass too, because I don't have much fat that needs to be lost.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:58 PM

Regardless, I think that paleo has been corrupted (taken over) by unhealthy people with unhealthy food relationships, and that is why the OP is under the impression that paleo-rationalizes overeating. Not because it does so in theory, but it seems to do so in practice (again, i.e. the sheer number of posts relating to weigh loss and overeating). Personally I see weight loss as a red flag, because it pays no attention to body composition, and weight in and of itself is an absolutely useless number

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:56 PM

@ alligator...you may have missed this from the PB ....."Take notice of that point in every meal where you have attained satisfaction and feel comfortable stopping—not the point at which you are full, but the point at which you are no longer hungry for the next bite—knowing that you can eat again whenever you like." Sisson, Mark (2009-06-01). The Primal Blueprint: Reprogram your genes for effortless weight loss, vibrant health, and boundless energy (p. 98). Primal Nutrition, Inc.. Kindle Edition. For more Paleo Diet hacks: Does paleo rationalize over-eating? - PaleoHacks.com http

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:55 PM

So while I tend to agree with Sisson's approach (i.e. insulin theory) you actually do not have to agree with that to recognize that just about everyone DOES agree that relying on will power alone is futile. So you get some other theorys (food reward) that are also attempting to minimize the role of will power in portion control. It all comes back to working with our system rather than against it, and in that regard I do believe this WOE is best.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:54 PM

Yeah, but it was a question about fasting options when weight loss is NOT a goal. The reason I made that caveat is because I like to keep my weight around 150lbs, but when fasting I invariably drop down to 140lbs within a month of doing simply because I can hardly get in enough food between 2 meals, let alone just 1. Maybe 140lbs is just my natural set point, and it probably is, so perhaps I'm trying to apply a paleo method (IF) to a non-paleo end (maintaining a weight higher than set point).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:50 PM

Yeah, but it was a question about fasting options when weight loss is NOT a goal. The reason I made that caveat is because I like to keep my weight around 150lbs, but when fasting I invariably drop down to 140lbs within a month of doing simply because I can hardly get in enough food between 2 meals, let alone just 1. The only way I could get the calories in with 1 meal.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:49 PM

Yeah, but it was a question about fasting options when weight loss is NOT a goal. The reason I made that caveat is because I like to keep my weight around 150lbs, but when fasting I invariably drop down to 140lbs within a month of doing simply because I cannot get in enough food between 2 meals.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:42 PM

I thought I read a thread even started by yourself about going on one of those "extreme fasts" recently??? BTW I do IF, but its just because 2 meals a day is all I ever want.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:40 PM

^so yes "ad libtum"...but with some conditions.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:39 PM

For instance from the PB ....."Take notice of that point in every meal where you have attained satisfaction and feel comfortable stopping—not the point at which you are full, but the point at which you are no longer hungry for the next bite—knowing that you can eat again whenever you like." Sisson, Mark (2009-06-01). The Primal Blueprint: Reprogram your genes for effortless weight loss, vibrant health, and boundless energy (p. 98). Primal Nutrition, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:36 PM

I don't eat this way to lose weight (never did), but for those who do I think its evident that relying strictly on your will power for portion control never works. With this WOE you work with many of your bodies innate satiety signal mechanisms rather than against them. If you read many of the books above, most are about replacing vegetable oils with healthy fats. Anything can be abused though, so if your goal is weight loss....then no I would not eat that stick of butter between meals :).

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:31 PM

No where does it say that paleo is about learning to trust your body and to eat according to what you need. You just made that up because it sounded good. Paleo in theory is recognized as eating a diet compatible with the foods we evolved on eating- which mainly means elinating Neolithic foods (grains and refined sugar in particular).

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:26 PM

I have read the Primal Blueprint. I think of all of the paleo books out there, PB is the worst offender, so it is odd you would site that one. Perfect Health does not though, you are correct. WHen I talk of paleo I am talking of the paleo followers of which this board is comprised.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:11 PM

^ I suspect their "ad libitum" approach is what makes paleo so attractive to binge-eaters. It totally ignores portion control.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:09 PM

I would disagree and say that Primal Blueprint is misleading. Its focus is on minimizing insulin and food toxins, and condoning liberal use (ad libitum) of fatty foods and animals. Liberal use of food for people who are overweight and metabolically deranged with poor satiety signals is a recipe for disaster. Taubes' view is similar...jsut minimize insulin and you can eat as much fat as you want. Both primarily ignore thermodynamics.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 02:50 PM

I mean the easy answer to "does paleo rationalize over eating"....the answer is no. Hope this helps.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 02:44 PM

LOL @ IF doesn't push overeating. That's the whole approach- with IF you supposedly get the benefits of caloric restriction without actually having to restrict calories.... just under-eat all day then feast at night.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on October 21, 2012
at 02:42 PM

What do you mean by over-eating?

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16 Answers

9
F02990386b12528111740ad6279ba29d

(1363)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:00 PM

It sounds like you are assuming eating healthy foods till you are satisfied is bad. But, I personally I have a much harder time eating excess calories on a paleo diet than I did before going paleo. Also, I've heard recommendations from paleo people that some people may need to watch calorie consumption... Usually this refers to things like nuts which are easy to "over-eat".

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on October 21, 2012
at 06:55 PM

i have to agree with you, kyle. while i was a fruitarian, it was easy to eat 2500-3000 calories a day because i was so hungry all the time. since i stared paleo, i get full on 1500-1800 calories a day.

6
F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on October 22, 2012
at 01:28 AM

Eating fats without restriction showed me that I was not a glutton and I wasn't broken. I ate the fat, I ate the meat, and then I stopped and went about my day without ruminating over food. That NEVER happened before eating pastries or cereal or healthy whole grains.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 23, 2012
at 04:51 PM

Meat is an effective calorie metering device. No glycemic spike, just steady nutrient delivery over many hours.

6
3bc294cb7745a5e99612ff886ca00101

(1186)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:27 PM

Eating disorders are the norm in standard North American food culture. Going paleo doesn't mean that will all disappear. People are asking questions here because they are in process of re-adaptation and learning. It's expected that much of that will be about cravings, binges, and cheats... this forum is supposed to help with that kind of issue right? :)

Overeating: Now I get to eat more of the high fat foods I always enjoyed but thought were 'bad'. Yet my total daily calorie intake is lower...and I'm not hungry/craving all the time... Win/Win.

6
Fa666905e4ed72858084dbcfed164daf

on October 21, 2012
at 04:27 PM

I think that pretty much every diet sect tried to promote the "eat as much of this X clean and pure food and you will be healthyskinnypureliveforevah!!!" I say this because I try to read up on many forums including (Gasp) vegetarian, bodybuilding, Peat eating, etc. I think the message is supposed to be "eat to satiety" but many people seem to have broken satiety meters. Maybe they don't eat mindfully, maybe their endocrine system is broken and they don't easily register a sense of fullness, maybe they just feel good eating (which is something I can relate to.)

For Paleo that means heart healthy animals fats are thumbs up. Fruitarians gorge on bananas, some bodybuilders are eating MCTs all day and cherry turnovers till they bust at night. All think they are eating the perfect diet for their goals prolly.

Weighing and calorie counting is verboten in many of the low carb and paleo circles for some reason. Paleo people didn't measure what they ate! Amirite? Bah. They also didn't eat their liver lettuce wraps or coconut oil lattes sitting in traffic and in front of Paleohacks.

I guess what I am saying is that it doesn't do anyone who is new to improving their nutrition much good if they aren't committed to becoming aware of how much they are eating. Paleo foods aren't magic. They can be just as fattening as SAD foods if eaten in excess. Personally I think that people should track their intake for a short while until they have a grasp of what a regular portion looks like and feels like in da belly.

$.02

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:36 PM

Agreed but add eat to satisfy emotional needs. If life is devoid of satisfaction, food is fulfilling. Sort of.

5
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on October 21, 2012
at 03:04 PM

Well, glancing at the site and the number of questions and tags pertaining to binge, overeating, weight-loss, and extreme fasting windows (1 meal a day) leads me to believe that the vast majority of people on this board have terrible relationships with food, and difficulty eating food in moderation. If this board is representative of today's paleo community and what it has become, yes I think paleo is overfed and does rationalize overeating and poor relationships with food (food as toxin not medicine).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:21 PM

Those are good points. I guess the question encouraged some selection bias (recollecting the negative aspects and not the positives) that I was not cautious enough to notice. I don't want to continue going back and forth but your points are well taken.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on October 21, 2012
at 10:01 PM

I don't think taking ideas that worked from ancestral diets and applying them in a way that fits our modern society is a negative thing. I'm not going for reenactment - I'm looking for the basic principles that can then be expressed in a targeted, individual way.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:06 PM

"I think that paleo has been corrupted (taken over) by unhealthy people with unhealthy food relationships, and that is why the OP is under the impression that paleo-rationalizes overeating".....Oh come on! I think you should both look at this board for what it really is...its a cross section of people most likely to have health issues OR questions about implementing the paleo lifestyle. It is no more a good representation of paleo at large than a food questionaire sent once every 15 years would portray your lifestyle at large.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:09 PM

If you take just what you see here as the state of paleo, then you are studying the people with the most problems and drawing an incorrect conclusion about the rest of the population IMO....that is why I always refer people to the books rather than this web site.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:42 PM

I thought I read a thread even started by yourself about going on one of those "extreme fasts" recently??? BTW I do IF, but its just because 2 meals a day is all I ever want.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:50 PM

One very serious defect in Paleo is the tendency to Westernize. Paleo borrows bits and pieces from ancestral diets but doesn't come close to emulating them.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:50 PM

Yeah, but it was a question about fasting options when weight loss is NOT a goal. The reason I made that caveat is because I like to keep my weight around 150lbs, but when fasting I invariably drop down to 140lbs within a month of doing simply because I can hardly get in enough food between 2 meals, let alone just 1. The only way I could get the calories in with 1 meal.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:28 PM

I'm not trying to be argumentative...I'm just sitting here with nothing else to do ;).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:49 PM

Yeah, but it was a question about fasting options when weight loss is NOT a goal. The reason I made that caveat is because I like to keep my weight around 150lbs, but when fasting I invariably drop down to 140lbs within a month of doing simply because I cannot get in enough food between 2 meals.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:54 PM

Yeah, but it was a question about fasting options when weight loss is NOT a goal. The reason I made that caveat is because I like to keep my weight around 150lbs, but when fasting I invariably drop down to 140lbs within a month of doing simply because I can hardly get in enough food between 2 meals, let alone just 1. Maybe 140lbs is just my natural set point, and it probably is, so perhaps I'm trying to apply a paleo method (IF) to a non-paleo end (maintaining a weight higher than set point).

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:31 PM

I agree with both of you fine Paleo gentlemen. Some of the questions here are just scary stupid when it comes to people's extreme relationships with food, but I think those probably stand out more and happens more on this site. I don't think it's necessarily representative of the average Paleo/Primal eater. The crazies just come out of the woodwork here :)

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:04 PM

...so above when I say I drop down to around 140lbs, I mean I drop muscle mass too, because I don't have much fat that needs to be lost.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:58 PM

Regardless, I think that paleo has been corrupted (taken over) by unhealthy people with unhealthy food relationships, and that is why the OP is under the impression that paleo-rationalizes overeating. Not because it does so in theory, but it seems to do so in practice (again, i.e. the sheer number of posts relating to weigh loss and overeating). Personally I see weight loss as a red flag, because it pays no attention to body composition, and weight in and of itself is an absolutely useless number

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:06 PM

and I think that you would agree that paleo has shifted towards a more negative view of food over time that encourages bad relationships (i.e. fructose, omega 6). I think you and I both agree that whole fruits and nuts are both healthy foods, and the fructose in these fruits and the omega 6 in these nuts are of no problem when not eaten in excess.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on October 23, 2012
at 05:36 PM

Harry- How in history would it be possible to kill an animal and feed on it for a number of days without access to refrigeration?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 23, 2012
at 04:01 AM

The negative aspect is that it seems very difficult to agree on a set of **basic principles**.. A reenactment is something that can be relied upon to reasonably reach consensus. However, when it comes to principles, individual interpretation becomes becomes very subjective, as is often the case here at PH. The modern version of killing an animal and feeding on it for a number of days is not the equivalent of going shopping at the local butcher for processed meat.

59fa7cd87fb9d669adf21e5cf3e7ada5

on October 24, 2012
at 12:30 PM

I think a perfect example of this is the gentleman blogger who decided to add a sweet potato a day to his diet but couldn't eat the sweet potato without adding three tablespoons of butter.

Ed7403e397077dd1acdbf25c7f6e56ce

(3452)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:42 PM

@ foreveryoung... I never understood IF to promote or excuse overeating... I don't approach it that way, and I'm thinking anyone who has success with IF doesn't either. I am really beginning to see a whole bunch of false information on IF around here. Too bad, it's really a very useful and effective approach if pursued intelligently.

4
3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 02:43 PM

I'm not the most studied person here in philosophy, but I think this would be called a non-sequitur. Either way if you don't understand this particular portion this WOE perhaps you should re-read The Paleo Solution or The Primal Blueprint or even Perfect Health Diet or WAPF. It's been well explained.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:40 PM

^so yes "ad libtum"...but with some conditions.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:11 PM

^ I suspect their "ad libitum" approach is what makes paleo so attractive to binge-eaters. It totally ignores portion control.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:36 PM

I don't eat this way to lose weight (never did), but for those who do I think its evident that relying strictly on your will power for portion control never works. With this WOE you work with many of your bodies innate satiety signal mechanisms rather than against them. If you read many of the books above, most are about replacing vegetable oils with healthy fats. Anything can be abused though, so if your goal is weight loss....then no I would not eat that stick of butter between meals :).

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:26 PM

I have read the Primal Blueprint. I think of all of the paleo books out there, PB is the worst offender, so it is odd you would site that one. Perfect Health does not though, you are correct. WHen I talk of paleo I am talking of the paleo followers of which this board is comprised.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:55 PM

So while I tend to agree with Sisson's approach (i.e. insulin theory) you actually do not have to agree with that to recognize that just about everyone DOES agree that relying on will power alone is futile. So you get some other theorys (food reward) that are also attempting to minimize the role of will power in portion control. It all comes back to working with our system rather than against it, and in that regard I do believe this WOE is best.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:09 PM

I would disagree and say that Primal Blueprint is misleading. Its focus is on minimizing insulin and food toxins, and condoning liberal use (ad libitum) of fatty foods and animals. Liberal use of food for people who are overweight and metabolically deranged with poor satiety signals is a recipe for disaster. Taubes' view is similar...jsut minimize insulin and you can eat as much fat as you want. Both primarily ignore thermodynamics.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 02:50 PM

I mean the easy answer to "does paleo rationalize over eating"....the answer is no. Hope this helps.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:39 PM

For instance from the PB ....."Take notice of that point in every meal where you have attained satisfaction and feel comfortable stopping—not the point at which you are full, but the point at which you are no longer hungry for the next bite—knowing that you can eat again whenever you like." Sisson, Mark (2009-06-01). The Primal Blueprint: Reprogram your genes for effortless weight loss, vibrant health, and boundless energy (p. 98). Primal Nutrition, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

3
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on October 21, 2012
at 02:42 PM

Paleo is about learning to trust your body and to eat according to you need. That doesn't sound like over eating to me. I know personally my daily caloric intake is between 500 and 3200 calories -- that's what works for me.

This is a community pushing IF, prescriptive cycles (ie leangains), etc. None of which approch over-eating.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on October 21, 2012
at 05:13 PM

@foreveryong -- who said IF pushes overeating or that it was about caloric restriction? It is a tool for monitoring your food and changing your gene expressions.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:31 PM

No where does it say that paleo is about learning to trust your body and to eat according to what you need. You just made that up because it sounded good. Paleo in theory is recognized as eating a diet compatible with the foods we evolved on eating- which mainly means elinating Neolithic foods (grains and refined sugar in particular).

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:56 PM

@ alligator...you may have missed this from the PB ....."Take notice of that point in every meal where you have attained satisfaction and feel comfortable stopping—not the point at which you are full, but the point at which you are no longer hungry for the next bite—knowing that you can eat again whenever you like." Sisson, Mark (2009-06-01). The Primal Blueprint: Reprogram your genes for effortless weight loss, vibrant health, and boundless energy (p. 98). Primal Nutrition, Inc.. Kindle Edition. For more Paleo Diet hacks: Does paleo rationalize over-eating? - PaleoHacks.com http

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on October 21, 2012
at 05:16 PM

@alligator. Every single scientific study has shown that people who eat according to a paleo style VOLUNTARILY reduce their caloric intake wrt their baseline and the control group. So to suggest that it rationalizes over-eating it way off base.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on October 21, 2012
at 05:14 PM

@alligator, I'm not sure who you read, but Sisson and Wolf both talk about this. So does Kresser, Attia, and Guyenet.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on October 21, 2012
at 02:44 PM

LOL @ IF doesn't push overeating. That's the whole approach- with IF you supposedly get the benefits of caloric restriction without actually having to restrict calories.... just under-eat all day then feast at night.

2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 22, 2012
at 02:07 PM

Relative to other dietary regimes which emphasise portion control and food energy value, paleo encourages unrestricted eating in terms of quantities and calories. This is largely because the paleo type diet tends to be one of the most satiating of all diets.

However, within your question there is an important implication, and that is whether the satiety of a paleo diet is sufficient to limit food intake in order to maintain a healthy body composition.

During ancestral times the availability of food, whether meat or plant based, would have been variable and perhaps seasonal. Certainly it would have been far removed from having a stocked up pantry or the convenience of a supermarket. Also, there would have been a considerable investment in calories that would have had to be expended in order to secure the next food parcel.

In other words, it is not just the type of food but also the availability of food that is critical to emulating a paleo dietary template. Consequently, unlimited availability of food is not paleo.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 22, 2012
at 05:06 PM

Right now I'm reading the sad story of the end of hunt-and-gather among the central Willamette Valley tribes. Stories of mothers killing their children to placate their angry and increasingly unsuccessful hunter-mates. A way of living that had worked for 10,000 years very abruptly came to an end, with literally no availability of food.

1
E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on February 02, 2013
at 01:52 AM

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: paleo-type diets assist in calibrating hypothalamic satiety regulation (this is the part of the brain that monitors and integrates signals from the bloodstream and various parts of the gastrointestinal tract and regulates appetite).

This means that for most people they don't have to count calories or portions or otherwise restrict their diets manually - their body provides a strong signal when they've eaten enough for their needs and they stop eating.

But: in some people, even on a paleo-type diet the signal is weak and can be overridden. These people need to take extra care not to overeat as they will not be able to manage their overweight automatically.

1
59fa7cd87fb9d669adf21e5cf3e7ada5

on October 24, 2012
at 12:28 PM

It depends on whose version of Paleo you are talking about, imo there are versions that rationalize UNDER eating, specifically the low carb version where people are starving themselves of glucose.

Also there are individuals who rationalize an unhealthy relationship with food by saying they are eating Paleo, but their version of Paleo isn't necessarily anyone else's version.

0
Ca71bbbf420ac8abfad4c5185ecddf31

on February 02, 2013
at 02:32 AM

There are several things happening here.

  1. People use butter, coconut oil, cheese, chocolate, nuts, etc as some of the main sources of their fats. Of course these are easy to over consume. These things aren't really paleo. I view butter and coconut oil as ways to cook my food, not ways to add fat to coffee. Cheese, chocolate, and nuts can be consumed in moderation by some and have no effects, but no one should be encouraging consumption of these foods. This is a meat, veggie, and fruit diet. Everything else is a paleo-maybe and can easily be over consumed.

  2. A large portion of paleo people are on the diet to lose weight. Plain and simple, they come into it with bodies that are wrecked. This means people's bodies won't have the correct signaling of when someone is full or hungry. They'll overeat on any diet this included.

  3. People love to be 80/20. Its a rule mark gave us that people use all the time. If your cheating 20 percent of the time, I doubt your body will ever fully recover to the point where its signaling correctly to your brain.

0
5616e8de3e99ae199d9fd896098a331a

on February 02, 2013
at 02:22 AM

C'mon, 50 pounds of bacon per day isn't over-eating, it's unconditioned love.

0
387d7b7c6cac49a03aad10d7b6cada7b

on February 02, 2013
at 02:13 AM

I have a huge issue with satiety normally. I used to eat large amounts of junk food every few hours. We are talking somewhere in the neighborhood of 4000-5000 calories a day. It is why I am obese and diabetic.

Eating paleo with a strong low carb bent keeps my blood glucose levels stable, and has lowered my blood pressure. It used to be I could eat 2-3 plates full of food at a buffet and feel like I was starving after. I have gone from over eating heavily to being lucky if I clear 1600 calories a day without being hungry.

I eat every single meal with a vegetable, lots of vegetables if I can. Sometimes they are cooked in fat, sometimes not. Breakfast usually contains bacon and eggs. With lunch and dinner being fish, fowl, pork, or beef. Each meal coming with a lot of veggies.

0
Bfd70bb38267fcc2d762063d691fa226

(723)

on February 01, 2013
at 09:29 PM

I don't think paleo rationalizes overeating per se. Some may assume this. However, it encourages eating paleo foods until you are full. Many people, when trying to be healthy, try to scrutinize every calorie and shy away from fat. In turn, they feel deprived most of the time.

Paleo, on the other hand, encourages nourishing you body instead of depriving it. In the SAD culture, eating until full or satisfied, especially if you are "dieting," is frowned upon. Compared to a SAD "dieter," a person following the paleo lifestyle would be grossly overeating fats.

Some people following the paleo lifestyle may go too far and give the impression that it's okay to go crazy and eat all the fat you possibly can. In reality, I think it really means that you should not deprive yourself of fats and foods that are taboo on SAD diets. Overeating on a regular basis, paleo foods or not, is hard on the body and the digestive system. Also, who feels like working out when you're always stuffed? Not me!

0
2e777bbcd49262eb31a24f821abec6bc

(1974)

on October 24, 2012
at 12:16 PM

I think the question suggests that the desire to over eat is bad and suggests an "unhealthy relationship with food"... Whatever that means. Humans are designed to eat as much as possible and to love eating just like dogs or other animals will when possible. When there was a lack of food this desire was healthy an essential. Now it is contributing to unhealthy weights since there is an excess of food. I don't think overweight people have an unhealthy relationship with food... They just have a desire to eat a lot, as they should. Now that there is such an excess of food, skinny vs fat just comes down to how much self control the person has.

0
Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:28 PM

I think Atkins rationalized overeating. Obese people don't like to give up overeating, and Atkin's Diet Revolution's ketosis strategy provided them with a way to do that so long as they removed most of the carbs from their diet. Paleo borrows this strategy. IMO our ancestors ate this way when they had the opportunity, but not as an invariate pattern diet.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 23, 2012
at 04:06 AM

+1 nature provided the primary portion control - satiety mechanisms were secondary

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