2

votes

please hack my osteoarthritis knee issues

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 24, 2011 at 7:42 AM

Doc says I need a knee replacement due to osteoarthritis. I'm 55, and had a hip replaced 20 years ago. I've been Paleo for about 7 months, and over the last year have lost 130 pounds with about 50 more to go, I suppose. My diet is an average of 70% fat, 25% protein, and 5% carb - no dairy except a little Kerrygold butter, virtually no fruit (<1 x week, generally a few berries), vegs are mostly leafy greens, cruciferous, some nightshades (tomato, peppers - no potatoes), grass feed beef with a little pastured pork/chicken/eggs, few nuts 1-2x/week (that's my "cheat"!). About1500 calories per day - I'm still in weight loss mode. A couple weeks ago I started IF, mostly skipping breakfast, then eating lunch about noon and dinner about 7. I take 4000 units of Vit D, Glucosomine/Condrotin/MSM, Calc/Mag, and Meloxicam (for arthritis). I see a good PT who works with functional movement monthly. I do CrossFit 5 days per week, and recently have incorporated a little (very little - like 200 meters at a time) running and some rope jumping which until then had been scaled out of my workouts.

Sleep - still some issues there, but much, much better than its been for the last 20 years or so, and working on it continually. Probably average 6 hours per night, but some nights it is 3 and others it is 8. Tonight's sleep was interrupted because of knee pain. What else can/should I be doing to mitigate knee pain?

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on October 12, 2011
at 12:29 AM

curcumin & beef jello have been my best additions...and i Vave osteop and permanently damaged meniscus' and MCL's...

Ffc7e0ecad8e8831b528c5d4921377cc

(942)

on June 22, 2011
at 02:51 AM

I do water sprints once a week. If necessary, these can be done in the deep end with a floatation belt. A sprint can be anything that leaves you with your tongue hanging out gasping for breath.

89e6ee4796cc4b4fba5dc573618aa6f5

on May 25, 2011
at 08:57 PM

you shouldn't be needing Calc Supp on a solid paleo diet and if its not needed but taken toxicity occours with some rather unwelcome deposits around the body. PMSL regards to the testosterone :] didn't take not of your gender. The infrared and ultrasound are to stimulate blood flow locally. I've got tendinitis in both my achillies from a very long charity bike ride and I use both these methods which are yielding sustained relief until I jump rope or run the next day :[

E6c790e285048d9d09a554e65879693a

(435)

on May 25, 2011
at 05:26 PM

I'll certainly keep that in mind, Jae. Thanks.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on May 25, 2011
at 01:29 PM

Frank is a friend of mine and you are in good hands, but I do have to tell you that the guys at IFAST are the best in the country when it comes to resolving issues like this. I went to see them about a number of things, and their expertise has been invaluable. I've restored about 5-10 degrees of dorsiflexion in my left ankle over the last 3 weeks -- compared to zero progress over the last two years. Tell Frank I said hi. =)

E6c790e285048d9d09a554e65879693a

(435)

on May 24, 2011
at 08:21 PM

I've been considering yoga. Will look into it more. Thanks.

E6c790e285048d9d09a554e65879693a

(435)

on May 24, 2011
at 08:20 PM

Yes, I'm working with a PT who is especially good with this. I've made amazing progress in a few months.

E6c790e285048d9d09a554e65879693a

(435)

on May 24, 2011
at 08:20 PM

I love that...I'll do more!

E6c790e285048d9d09a554e65879693a

(435)

on May 24, 2011
at 08:19 PM

I know I shouldn't run and jump rope. It is hard because I really want to! Such a sense of accomplishment! I should say, too, that my "sprints" aren't really - just a light jog for a short distance!

E6c790e285048d9d09a554e65879693a

(435)

on May 24, 2011
at 08:17 PM

Jae, QuantumFit (qfitindy.com)

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on May 24, 2011
at 03:52 PM

Also -- which CF gym do you attend?

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on May 24, 2011
at 03:52 PM

Feel free to send me an email if you have any questions about them. [my first name] + the letters "pcv" @ gmail.com

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on May 24, 2011
at 03:51 PM

Oh, I see you're in Indy! I'm in Bloomington. Rhonda, if you have knee pain and potentially need a knee replacement, please see the guys over at IFAST before you make any major medical decisions. They are flat-out amazing. ifastonline.com

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on May 24, 2011
at 03:49 PM

I would bet that you are doing too much CrossFit unless your affiliate is one of the few that has incredibly good programming and excellent trainers.

9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

(15833)

on May 24, 2011
at 11:48 AM

Congrats on turning your health around! That is quite a transformation. Amazing!

E6c790e285048d9d09a554e65879693a

(435)

on May 24, 2011
at 09:23 AM

Thanks, Darren. I forgot to mention the Carlson's fish oil - 1 Tbsp daily. Eat very little seafood - bad, I know. Why eliminate calcium supp? As female, benefit to increasing testosterone - and ice baths to do that is new to me. Tell me more about the infrared lamp and ultrasound.

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9 Answers

2
Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on May 24, 2011
at 12:24 PM

Rhonda 7 months is not long enough with joints that bad......you need to get a few blood tests done. Go get ultra sensitive crp and vitamin d level done with reverse T3. You must be optimal in those three tests before you have surgery. If those are not optimal you may still get better clinically without surgery. That is what I do on my spine patients.

1
47e3c4dae51320812dd0f9ebc595cd79

on May 24, 2011
at 03:00 PM

Rhonda, take care with the running. I know they are only short sprints but if your knee has OA, restrict the impact exercises and you will have less pain. 7 months is not a long time on a healthful paleo diet. You have made fantastic progress already, but you will make more over the next 7 to 12 months with both weight loss and pain relief. I recommend low impact high intensity resistance training for my patients (I'm an MD Rheumatologist with an interest in ancestral nutrition and in a previous life was a fitness instructor!). You can perform sprints on an exercise bike and on a cross trainer (not quite as effective as running, but still incredibly beneficial).

Taking fish oil is an obvious requirement. I don't think you need to worry about your thyroid function with your recent (excellent) weight loss and your current levels of physical activity. Neither do I think that high sensitivity CRP is of any use whatsoever. If you are carrying an extra 50 pounds it will be high...big deal. Lose the weight and keep eating paleo and it is highly likely to come down. Getting your hydroxy vitamin D levels checked is a good idea though. But if you don't, simply take 2000 IU/day throughout the winter, early spring and late autumn and your will obtain and maintain 'normal' levels.

If you still have prolonged episodes of problematic pain, try a 'steroid' injection (methylprednisolone or triamcinolone). In my experience, this may give several months of relief, thereby keeping you more active.

Good luck

E6c790e285048d9d09a554e65879693a

(435)

on May 24, 2011
at 08:19 PM

I know I shouldn't run and jump rope. It is hard because I really want to! Such a sense of accomplishment! I should say, too, that my "sprints" aren't really - just a light jog for a short distance!

Ffc7e0ecad8e8831b528c5d4921377cc

(942)

on June 22, 2011
at 02:51 AM

I do water sprints once a week. If necessary, these can be done in the deep end with a floatation belt. A sprint can be anything that leaves you with your tongue hanging out gasping for breath.

1
1d9af5db8833413037be3ac48964714f

on May 24, 2011
at 02:02 PM

Add broth made from slow-cooked bones.

E6c790e285048d9d09a554e65879693a

(435)

on May 24, 2011
at 08:20 PM

I love that...I'll do more!

0
0b63f04cf5a1f3c46c1b88f2f684bcfb

on June 04, 2013
at 11:48 PM

Do some research on Vitamin K2 (mk-4). High dose mk-4 is used to Japan to treat osteoporosis but it is also successful at halting and perhaps reversing osteoarthritis as well. This high dose Vitamin K2 is also being used by members of the Track Your Plaque group to reverse their heart disease. Do a Google search for Koncentrated K. It is the only high dose Vitamin K2 available and contains 25mg. I am not affiliated with this site selling the Vitamin K2, but wanted to share the source.

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 27, 2011
at 11:26 PM

If in fact your knee is bad enough to require surgery try to strengthen your leg muscles as much as possible and then get the surgical repair done.

I too suffered lack of sleep and/or poor quality sleep for too long before I had my knee replacements done. By the time I had surgery I was so bow-legged I looked like a cowboy. :(

I had one knee done in May and the next done in July the same year. After a few hissy weeks of recovery I was glad I did. I now get restful sleep.

0
Df7d57e25598115490d7fb5ed31188b5

on September 27, 2011
at 09:55 PM

My knee pain and instability was diminished but not gone after surgery. Improving strength and flexibility of the muscles around the knee helped make the pain go almost totally away for good.

For strength I stick with deadlifts and squats. Low volume (<20 minutes), low reps (<6), low sets (5-6) high resistance (>body weight). Two or three times per week. I never go to the gym till I feel fully recovered.

For flexibility I use Active Isolated Stretching (AIS). I recommend at least 4-6 weeks of cautious AIS before adding weightlifting and then a gradual build up of weight resistance using a periodized approach adapted to your recovery ability.

If the knee is extremely painful, start out doing your AIS extremely slowly in the warmest pool you can gain access to. A large, deep Jacuzzi is ideal.

I also use Chikly Method lymph drainage to drain excess fluid if the knee becomes swollen.

Ping me if you need more tips.

Be well,

Ben Fury

0
Ee7ee29e000bd4918c06ff75b6b1bb12

(195)

on May 24, 2011
at 01:31 PM

Along the lines of exercise, diet can only do so much, but if you are loading your foot or hip differently or inefficiently, your knee will suffer. You stated you had hip surgery too, and all of that will affect how your body functions overall.

E6c790e285048d9d09a554e65879693a

(435)

on May 24, 2011
at 08:20 PM

Yes, I'm working with a PT who is especially good with this. I've made amazing progress in a few months.

0
9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

on May 24, 2011
at 12:02 PM

I have arthritis in my family but don't have any symptoms yet (I'm 41), but it is something I worry about and try to prevent against.

The things I focus on are vitamin D supplements and a lot of omega-3's through either diet or supplements (I prefer diet but supplements are a good source) and keeping my legs strong and flexible. You might consider adding fish oil capsules.

The last time I tried Glucosomine/Chondroitin it wrecked havoc on my stomach, but I think it was helpful in recovering from a soft tissue injury around my knee.

My brother has had a lot of knee injuries/problems and he does a lot of strength-building / maintaining exercises such as squats and knee presses. During the PT recovering from my knee injury we did a lot of this too. Standing on a balance board, wall squats with a big ball, "monster walk" (walk across the room in a squat with a resistance band around ankles). The idea is to strengthen the muscles not only directly around the knee, but those that aid in lateral/twisting motions and balance. I think kettlebell swings would be good for this too. I think it makes sense that improving the muscles will take stress off of the joint.

The PT was through a chiropractor who practiced something called the "Graston method" which involves using metal tools to massage and smooth out the soft tissue around the affected area. Sounds kind of strange but it got me from unable to walk to running 2-3 miles within about 6-8 weeks. Not sure if this would work for you but you might check into it.

You might also consider yoga, which can be great for both flexibility and strength building. I find Iyengar style yoga to be a much more physically challenging than other types.

E6c790e285048d9d09a554e65879693a

(435)

on May 24, 2011
at 08:21 PM

I've been considering yoga. Will look into it more. Thanks.

0
89e6ee4796cc4b4fba5dc573618aa6f5

on May 24, 2011
at 08:27 AM

I don't see any info on Fish or fish oil amounts? My knee issue cleared up using high dose pure fish oil sup (6g per day split am/pm), mackerel, trout and salmon min of 3 times a week. Eliminated calcium sups, took ice bath 6am and 10pm every night for two weeks (to increase testosterone) followed each bath by localised therapy with either infrared lamp or ultrasound for 10mins. I've been strict paleo for 7months with only some goats milk for my tea. Tons of kerrygold and the fattiest grassfed/slow reared meat my local farm can supply. Mutton in the Crock pot is a real find :]! Hope you find this helpful. Good luck.

89e6ee4796cc4b4fba5dc573618aa6f5

on May 25, 2011
at 08:57 PM

you shouldn't be needing Calc Supp on a solid paleo diet and if its not needed but taken toxicity occours with some rather unwelcome deposits around the body. PMSL regards to the testosterone :] didn't take not of your gender. The infrared and ultrasound are to stimulate blood flow locally. I've got tendinitis in both my achillies from a very long charity bike ride and I use both these methods which are yielding sustained relief until I jump rope or run the next day :[

E6c790e285048d9d09a554e65879693a

(435)

on May 24, 2011
at 09:23 AM

Thanks, Darren. I forgot to mention the Carlson's fish oil - 1 Tbsp daily. Eat very little seafood - bad, I know. Why eliminate calcium supp? As female, benefit to increasing testosterone - and ice baths to do that is new to me. Tell me more about the infrared lamp and ultrasound.

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