9

votes

Jan Kwasniewski - Optimal Diet

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created June 05, 2010 at 8:32 PM

The doctor recommends 1g of protein/2.5g-3.5g of fat and 0.5g of carbs per 1 kg (2.2 pounds) of ideal (height - 100 cm/39 inches).

Peter over at Hyperlipid seems to be following some version of his approach and Kurt Harris promised a post about this diet a while back but we still await.

Any followers here ? I'm thinking about getting his book.

7767e05a8c4504f6be03f13ee40815cd

(1299)

on May 22, 2013
at 10:57 PM

Why only consider Inuit and Masai? They demonstrate that such ratios are possible, but do not give evidence for them being ideal in any sense.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 02, 2011
at 05:08 PM

I don't know about that. On IF, I am listening to my body and I've comfortably lost nearly 40 pounds so far and I'm clearly losing my apple shape. And that's coming from a life-long binge eater. It's not that you can't listen, it's that you have to get to a place where you can hear above the "SAD" noise (habit of eating constantly.)

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on December 02, 2011
at 05:05 PM

Rose, by my count, OD is still about 82% fat, 13% protein and 6% CHO. Ur saying the increased carb % -- 6% over zero -- caused your 20 pound weight gain? Were you not still ketogenic at that level?

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 09, 2011
at 06:24 PM

I also gained weight over a 7-week period on his diet -- over 20 lbs! -- but for me it was pretty clearly the carb count, since I lost a literal buttload of weight eating animal-only (ZC) at 75-80% fat afterwards. I know it's not popular to look at macronutrients these days, but it is still striking to me how much they seem to matter, and how they matter *differently* to different bodies.

Eedf46c82d0356d1d46dda5f9782ef36

(4464)

on September 01, 2010
at 08:48 PM

I agree. I've done a 'no counting' approach since starting paleo and I've had great results so far. I made a strong effort to listen to my body after the first month or so and I pay attention to cravings. I know when my body wants fish. I know when my body wants green crunchy things. I know when my body wants a giant hunk of meat. Counting, at least for me, would ruin a big part of the natural appeal of paleo.

6eb2812b40855ba64508cbf2dc48f1b6

(2119)

on June 08, 2010
at 09:18 PM

heavy cream, coconut oil, butter, egg yolks

14aa918d730371ed14f8e7e7d6eb6587

(373)

on June 06, 2010
at 10:53 PM

I would really like to read his book, but it's rather expensive, requires you to fax a signature, and presumably ships from Europe. Anyone know a better way of getting this book?

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on June 06, 2010
at 06:01 PM

My body counts for me, and has been doing very well for over a year

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on June 06, 2010
at 05:55 PM

What were your fat sources?

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7 Answers

9
6eb2812b40855ba64508cbf2dc48f1b6

(2119)

on June 06, 2010
at 01:55 PM

I tried this, and massively over-ate fat. After about a week with a 2.5lb. gain, I quit.

Fat does not provoke satiety the same way protein does, at least for me.

Check out lowcarber.org - there's pages and pages of forum posts and experiences there.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=394198

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on June 06, 2010
at 05:55 PM

What were your fat sources?

6eb2812b40855ba64508cbf2dc48f1b6

(2119)

on June 08, 2010
at 09:18 PM

heavy cream, coconut oil, butter, egg yolks

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 09, 2011
at 06:24 PM

I also gained weight over a 7-week period on his diet -- over 20 lbs! -- but for me it was pretty clearly the carb count, since I lost a literal buttload of weight eating animal-only (ZC) at 75-80% fat afterwards. I know it's not popular to look at macronutrients these days, but it is still striking to me how much they seem to matter, and how they matter *differently* to different bodies.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on December 02, 2011
at 05:05 PM

Rose, by my count, OD is still about 82% fat, 13% protein and 6% CHO. Ur saying the increased carb % -- 6% over zero -- caused your 20 pound weight gain? Were you not still ketogenic at that level?

8
4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

on June 06, 2010
at 05:59 PM

I dislike any % guides

I enjoy eating real food and knowing that my body will tell me when to eat more and cravings tell me what to eat, I specifically crave meat at times. I get butter/coconut oil cravings sometimes too

I eat vegetables to restore my glycogen and a as yet to be determined vitamin requirements

I conciously choose to eat fish when I know my O6 is bad from food choices

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on June 06, 2010
at 06:01 PM

My body counts for me, and has been doing very well for over a year

Eedf46c82d0356d1d46dda5f9782ef36

(4464)

on September 01, 2010
at 08:48 PM

I agree. I've done a 'no counting' approach since starting paleo and I've had great results so far. I made a strong effort to listen to my body after the first month or so and I pay attention to cravings. I know when my body wants fish. I know when my body wants green crunchy things. I know when my body wants a giant hunk of meat. Counting, at least for me, would ruin a big part of the natural appeal of paleo.

3
Ecf56c446c8ef2d3edc313c864a9ab0a

on August 09, 2011
at 06:02 AM

There is no such thing as ???listening to your body??? ! And especially it cannot be on real paleo diet. Do you think our ancestors listened to their bodies? I don???t think so. Raw data from Inuits and Masai clearly shows ratios. Fat 80% /protein 20% and 60-70%/30-40% (whenever possible). If you want to listen to your body go for seven days on 1000 kcal with a good amount of exercising and then on the 8t day prepare a meal made of unlimited quantities of fat, protein and carbs (veggies and fruits). Make sure you know how many grams of particular food you have on the plate. You will find yourself eating fat like crazy! Kwasniewski???s diet is ok but only for first few months when used as a healing diet. For long term run, for most of us, there is not enough of proteins and for less active, too much of fat. We have to remember that our modern lifestyle isn???t PALEO at all. So if someone wants to eat a high-fat diet, he should get an adequate amount of physical activity. 1 gram of proteins per one kg of body weight is a minimum. Exact ratios of dr. Kwasniewski diet are 0,8-1:2-3,5:0,8. Normally, a majority of dieters is on 0,8:2,5:0,8. Another important point to note is that Kwasniewski???s Optimal Diet MUST be made of highest quality foods. Commercial lard isn???t good at all, we all know how pigs eat (lard=lack of vitamin E and too much PUFAs, which is a very dangerous combo). There is too much pork also so beef and lamb should be a prime meat on a plate. Cream is ok but whenever possible it should be grass fed. And finally to make this diet safe, we should add to it a fairly large amounts of green vegetables (spinach, celery, collard greens, parsley) and garlic and onions. Supplementation of o-3 is strongly recommended also.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on December 02, 2011
at 05:08 PM

I don't know about that. On IF, I am listening to my body and I've comfortably lost nearly 40 pounds so far and I'm clearly losing my apple shape. And that's coming from a life-long binge eater. It's not that you can't listen, it's that you have to get to a place where you can hear above the "SAD" noise (habit of eating constantly.)

7767e05a8c4504f6be03f13ee40815cd

(1299)

on May 22, 2013
at 10:57 PM

Why only consider Inuit and Masai? They demonstrate that such ratios are possible, but do not give evidence for them being ideal in any sense.

3
D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

on September 01, 2010
at 07:12 PM

I follow Dr. Kwasniewski's ratios for weight loss:

.8g Protein per KG of Ideal weight, .3 - .5g Carb per KG of Ideal weight, 1.5 - 2 grams of Fat per gram of Protein.

I am pleased with how I feel on these ratios.

Ideal weight is calculated thusly:

Height in cm. minus 100.

Example 180 cm - 100 = 80Kg. This formula is for calculating protein. Dr. K recommends eating this amount, plus or minus 10 percent.

Peter Dobromylskyj gives many insights and ideas about Dr. K's diet, at Hyperlipid.

I don't eat grains, legumes or vegetable oils, sugar/honey, artificial anything, packaged/prepared foods, etc.

I eat liver once or twice a week, have yet to try kidneys. No access yet to ruminant brain or tongue.

Drinking bone broth and meat stock, as Dr. K recommends. Finding it very strengthening.

Also use a Berkey water filter with the cartridges for removing chlorine and fluoride.

It is possible to read Dr. K's website using Google translator:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://dr-kwasniewski.pl/&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com

It might be possible to get Dr. K's books through interlibrary loan.

1
9b60ca9531bf825d9102c59a04259114

(10)

on December 02, 2011
at 09:15 AM

I agree with Gudrii. Very good notes! Practices more people and me show the same. To make this diet safe I should strongly recommended during diet time fairly - min.2 times weekly - large amounts of vegetables (important is also fibre, this diet is poor). Aplication this diet long time bring more people difficulties, I know also deadly case.

0
9039cacecb30f31e18da59ac89a6589b

on May 12, 2013
at 05:31 PM

i've been on dr Kwasniewski's diet for the last 12 or 13 years at least. Since I am rather healthy (56y/o) and slim - always around 50kg as when I was 22, the reason was to keep healthy just in case because I read his book out of curiosity and what he wrote in his books made so much sense to me. Yet I don't measure out the exact proportion of products, generally eat at least 2 eggs daily, pure butter, cream, pure cheeses, fatty meat, bacon, stock soup always but not included bone marrow as since I've moved back to PL last year (after 26 years in AU) - I find it hard to get them - go West for a better price I suppose. All other additions to make tasty meal like olives, mushrooms, cabbage, tomatoes, etc etc, and based on my experience I strongly recommed to really give it a go and check it out. I'm so used to it that can't imagine to eat any other products, though sometimes I do have a potatoe, or a bit of bread just for a diversity - but that's only tiny addition. Stock soup is my base (alwasy fatty and reach), frozen in biggish cups and I only add while warming for eating - either an agg, or some fresh white cheese (not available in AU or DE, but could be Philadelfia), or mixture of nuts, or dill cucumbers, or tomatoe paste, there're really many options to choose from. It's not cheaper but I feel much healthier.

0
3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

on December 02, 2011
at 04:46 PM

Here, it's not exactly intuitive throwing out a formula and trying to understand it. Here's what a 75kg guy will be eating:

  • Protein 75g ==> 304 cal. ==> 13%
  • Fat 225g ==> 1982 cal. ==> 82%
  • Carbs 38g ==> 143 cal. ==> 6%
  • Total calories ==> 2,430

TC sounds about right for a 75kg guy with normal activity. OD seems to be a ketogenic diet; most people will be ketogenic at 38g total or even net carbs. At 75g protein, OD seems to practice protein restriction ... perhaps for longevity.

Actually, if you do some search on OD you'll see that many who followed the diet in Poland fell prety to stomach and colon cancer. There was some speculation that this may have been due to mucosal deficiency caused by not enough carbs and protein calories. I can believe it, as I dry out completely when I eat sub 50g carbs.

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