4

votes

Your favorite resources on why soybean oil is bad?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created April 01, 2011 at 2:02 AM

John Durant and I are coming up with something big and we need your help. What are your favorite resources for getting educated about soybean oil? Blog posts, papers, websites, anything good...

66d99cd663b65defc9704f59cbe70f9b

(10)

on April 17, 2012
at 02:40 PM

Thank you so much for this answer! So sick of sounding like a dummy when folks questions my soybean oil avoidance. I have lots of reading to do now!

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on June 01, 2011
at 10:06 PM

Today I did a hack within the hack: ordered the "ghetto bowl" w steak at Chipotle. Took about 6 napkins to pad down the sauce from the steak chunks, added in the side of guac. Then I downed a can of Wild Planet sardines in EVOO, and poured the excess fish/evoo onto the steak. Sort of a re-oiling. Tasty too. Judging by the color of the leftover sardine oil in the chipotle container, looks like the new oil flushed out a little more of the Chipotle oil. I still had a bout of mild nausea after this, no clue if its b/c of soybean oil still in there or other factors (e.g. ate faster than typical)

3a833804187fe8926214e6c0bd8a0766

(1023)

on June 01, 2011
at 10:03 PM

"That is a serious problem to anyone who doesn't like dying." Haha, love it.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on May 26, 2011
at 05:54 PM

So this ended up being canceled?! =(

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on April 01, 2011
at 09:28 PM

If this ends up successful, it would be amazing. I've been getting carnitas but I'm not thrilled about the cafo pork...

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 01, 2011
at 03:55 PM

You are going after Chipotle!!! Fan-flippin-tastic Melissa. that is one of my favorite places, and I have to avoid their roasted veggies (drenched in soybean oil) and of course their corn shells are drenched in soybean oil. And I have often wondered if their beef steak and barbocoa meat is also soybeanoilized. Please let us know what happens! Bring Chris in there. haha.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 01, 2011
at 03:51 PM

highly valuable answer stabby. this is the stuff that makes PaleoHacks a great resource for people who search for well reasoned answers to important questions. as Tim said above, if I could upvote twice, I would.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on April 01, 2011
at 02:28 PM

No, no meetup group. I was thinking of something like a letter-writing campaign for those of us in low-density Paleo areas. I dunno how effective it would be, but I guess it's a start.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 01, 2011
at 02:22 PM

I created a meetup everywhere http://www.meetup.com/Get-the-soy-out-of-Chipotle/

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 01, 2011
at 02:11 PM

do you have a meetup group in your area?

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on April 01, 2011
at 02:09 PM

I've been hoping someone would take the initiative on something like this. Any suggestions on how to make this more than just an NYC event?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 01, 2011
at 01:06 PM

Stubby......you da man. Wish I could have you in my clinic talking to folks about this

15e684f6f716f88c99f641098a6e06ca

(922)

on April 01, 2011
at 10:18 AM

just curious, is this related to the twitter exchange we had a while back about more viable ways to improve nutrition in low-income communities?

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on April 01, 2011
at 03:44 AM

I'm sure soybean oil would be a turnoff. Nutrition in general...I dunno. It is his other passion, after all. Melissa, try whispering stuff like "conjugated linoleic acid rich butter increases adiponectin which downregulates hepatic tumor necrosis factor expression, partially alleviating non-alcoholic fatty liver disease" in his ear. No WAPfer could resist that siren song.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on April 01, 2011
at 03:17 AM

Indeed. I love that old dude. You can see mine was the first comment on that video.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 01, 2011
at 03:06 AM

nobody likes soybean oil pillow talk

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 01, 2011
at 03:03 AM

lol, I will check with Chris, since he is my boyfriend. Thanks for the info!

0d2dec01a5ed9363a9915e111ae13f7e

(4583)

on April 01, 2011
at 02:45 AM

Hmm, can't upvote this twice. Too bad, one will do.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on April 01, 2011
at 02:42 AM

On a unrelated note, does anyone know of videos on the internet of that interview? I can't view the one of the American comedy network since I'm a no-good subhuman Canadian.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 01, 2011
at 02:27 AM

Yeah...that was a sly nudge to link to the video, or the NY Times magazine article. It only partially worked, I see.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 01, 2011
at 02:25 AM

yeah, but Durant was on the Colbert report :)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 01, 2011
at 02:19 AM

The paleo community might be too big now to use a first (and second name) basis? Other than Loren, Robb, Mark, Kurt. Well, Stephan too. And maybe some others. Okay, nevermind.

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6 Answers

16
Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on April 01, 2011
at 02:41 AM

Well just so you know this is going to be a very frustrating fight. For one, if we want to implicate a food we need to observe the deleterious effects of its constituent nutrients. The main reason why soy oil is death is the massive linoleic acid content, so if we pile on the evidence that linoleic acid is bad we will have demonstrated that soy oil is bad, right? Unfortunately the usual infantile response to this approach is an accusation of "nutritionism" where I am taking the deleterious effects of linoleic acid in isolation apart from the "whole food" (yeah soy oil as a whole food, riiiiiiiiiiight). I mean it has some ALA, right? And those massive doses of phytoestrogens are supposedly so good, eh?

So the argument has to be built on the fact that linoleic acid is intrinsically deleterious and that ALA (or the 22 carbon DHA preferably) is obtainable through sources with less linoleic acid like fish and flax. The argument is then valid.

Points of contention: all polyunsaturated fats generate lipoperoxides. Look at Chris Masterjohn's article on PUFAs for that. (precious but perilous, or something to that effect)

Then we have the undeniable fact that linoleic acid is carcinogenic. It triggers gene expression in a cancer-proliferating manner

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20616616 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17134970 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17607361

And some epidemiology to add a bit of weight. http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/158/1/41

So obvious we want to use olive oil, not soy oil.

It is interesting that sometimes omega 6 has a "preventative" role in heart disease (although Masterjohn buries the notion on his blog). Gary Taubes explains in GCBC that it just increases cancer and you can't get heart disease if you get cancer.

It lowers HDL and uses valuable LDL.

Ray Peat has long long articles bashing PUFAs. He is a resource in himself http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturatedfats.shtml

An issue with omega 6 is that massive doses like are found in soy oil cause an omega 3 deficiency in the cells. That is a serious problem to anyone who doesn't like dying. Again, probably check with Chris. His blog is like a nutrition geek's treasure-trove and he hates vegetable oils, rightfully so. Another big problem with omega 6 is that it just sits around being a douchebag in our cells and interferes with thyroid signaling. Thyroid signaling! Yes, I hate being fat and tired, don't you? http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/12/omega-6-linoleic-acid-suppresses.html

This is one of my favorite resources for documenting the effects of omega 6 fats in excess. They have clinical trials, epidemiology, case studies, tons of stuff. Mostly to do with the disequilibrium of fats in the cells but as we know you can't just slug fish oil all day long to try to keep up with your omega 6, since too much omega 3 is bad too. http://omega-6-omega-3-balance.omegaoptimize.com/ Just lots of studies.

All in all I think the best path isn't just to bash soy oil but vegetable oils in general, and soy is the most egregious offender.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 01, 2011
at 03:03 AM

lol, I will check with Chris, since he is my boyfriend. Thanks for the info!

0d2dec01a5ed9363a9915e111ae13f7e

(4583)

on April 01, 2011
at 02:45 AM

Hmm, can't upvote this twice. Too bad, one will do.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 01, 2011
at 03:06 AM

nobody likes soybean oil pillow talk

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on April 01, 2011
at 01:06 PM

Stubby......you da man. Wish I could have you in my clinic talking to folks about this

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on April 01, 2011
at 03:44 AM

I'm sure soybean oil would be a turnoff. Nutrition in general...I dunno. It is his other passion, after all. Melissa, try whispering stuff like "conjugated linoleic acid rich butter increases adiponectin which downregulates hepatic tumor necrosis factor expression, partially alleviating non-alcoholic fatty liver disease" in his ear. No WAPfer could resist that siren song.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 01, 2011
at 03:51 PM

highly valuable answer stabby. this is the stuff that makes PaleoHacks a great resource for people who search for well reasoned answers to important questions. as Tim said above, if I could upvote twice, I would.

3a833804187fe8926214e6c0bd8a0766

(1023)

on June 01, 2011
at 10:03 PM

"That is a serious problem to anyone who doesn't like dying." Haha, love it.

66d99cd663b65defc9704f59cbe70f9b

(10)

on April 17, 2012
at 02:40 PM

Thank you so much for this answer! So sick of sounding like a dummy when folks questions my soybean oil avoidance. I have lots of reading to do now!

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on April 01, 2011
at 02:09 PM

I've been hoping someone would take the initiative on something like this. Any suggestions on how to make this more than just an NYC event?

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on April 01, 2011
at 02:28 PM

No, no meetup group. I was thinking of something like a letter-writing campaign for those of us in low-density Paleo areas. I dunno how effective it would be, but I guess it's a start.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 01, 2011
at 02:11 PM

do you have a meetup group in your area?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 01, 2011
at 02:22 PM

I created a meetup everywhere http://www.meetup.com/Get-the-soy-out-of-Chipotle/

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 01, 2011
at 03:55 PM

You are going after Chipotle!!! Fan-flippin-tastic Melissa. that is one of my favorite places, and I have to avoid their roasted veggies (drenched in soybean oil) and of course their corn shells are drenched in soybean oil. And I have often wondered if their beef steak and barbocoa meat is also soybeanoilized. Please let us know what happens! Bring Chris in there. haha.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on April 01, 2011
at 09:28 PM

If this ends up successful, it would be amazing. I've been getting carnitas but I'm not thrilled about the cafo pork...

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on May 26, 2011
at 05:54 PM

So this ended up being canceled?! =(

2
21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 01, 2011
at 02:23 AM

1
3c7ae2aec385cb1e2cdbf18fed30c0fe

on April 01, 2011
at 03:12 AM

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on April 01, 2011
at 03:17 AM

Indeed. I love that old dude. You can see mine was the first comment on that video.

1
0d2dec01a5ed9363a9915e111ae13f7e

on April 01, 2011
at 02:39 AM

No link to throw down, but I've read some good stuff by Sally Fallon and Mary Enig on Soybean oil.

0
A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

on June 01, 2011
at 07:29 PM

in the meantime, heavily padding down the meat with napkins surely mitigates some of the problem, since there's a lot of excess juice on that steak? or does it not work that way

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on June 01, 2011
at 10:06 PM

Today I did a hack within the hack: ordered the "ghetto bowl" w steak at Chipotle. Took about 6 napkins to pad down the sauce from the steak chunks, added in the side of guac. Then I downed a can of Wild Planet sardines in EVOO, and poured the excess fish/evoo onto the steak. Sort of a re-oiling. Tasty too. Judging by the color of the leftover sardine oil in the chipotle container, looks like the new oil flushed out a little more of the Chipotle oil. I still had a bout of mild nausea after this, no clue if its b/c of soybean oil still in there or other factors (e.g. ate faster than typical)

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