4

votes

What is destroying mitochondria in the muscle tissues of people who are on their way to becoming type 2 diabetic and/or obese?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 06, 2011 at 8:58 PM

I saw this on Peter's Hyperlipid Blog, and I have no idea what would be causing this phenomenon (someone mentioned trans fats in the comments section), but I got that same spooky "oh, that's not good" feeling I got when I first heard about colony collapse in bees.

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RTIi3ish1Hs/TntAGpDEE4I/AAAAAAAABa8/vSFj23AQdzk/s1600/Slide8.jpg

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 07, 2011
at 06:17 AM

Yikes...The crazy thing, and I guess the magnesium deficiency idea here possibly backs it up, is that these changes are happening long before there are external signs of diabetes or obesity. Which I guess feeds into the Taubes idea that someone "eats too much" because they are getting fat, and not the other way around. Maybe there needs to be a public health campaign encouraging Epsom Salt baths to fight Type 2 Diabetes? Or does the body refuse to take on the magnesium efficiently if it is already in this state?

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on October 07, 2011
at 05:04 AM

I deleted my post because Dr. K informed me that I was wrong. it is actually apoptosis. BLAMO! Magnesium deficiency. Bad! Run away run away :(

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on October 07, 2011
at 04:02 AM

What I meant! Neat-o.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on October 07, 2011
at 03:40 AM

Im not saying.....electron microscopes have shown it

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on October 07, 2011
at 02:17 AM

Interesting, on second thought those big blobs are way to big to have been expanded by fatty acids. So you are basically saying that it what apoptosis looks like?

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on October 07, 2011
at 02:16 AM

Interesting, on second thought those big blobs are way to big to have been expended by fatty acids. So you are basically saying that it what apoptosis looks like?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on October 07, 2011
at 01:51 AM

Magnesium. It is coupled to ATP production and is coupled to insulin at the cellular level. This is why diabetics have the lowest intracellular levels of mg on exactesting of red blood cells. You deplete magnesium from cells you induce intracellular calcium release and apoptosis and this blows up the inner mitochondrial membrane with a toxic ROS release at cytochrome one......

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on October 07, 2011
at 12:47 AM

Hi Mallory, I'm just trying to figure out who he's talking about. I've not heard anyone saying that adipocyte IR limits fat gain.

C471216c9fb4fcf886b7ac84a4046b49

(1371)

on October 06, 2011
at 09:25 PM

a good quote form his recent post : "It is the RESISTANCE of adipocytes to insulin which limits fat gain. And the corollary is??? Sensitivity to insulin drives fat gain. You can't have one conclusion without the other. Anyone telling you that adipocyte insulin resistance limits fat gain and yet insulin per se has nothing to do with fat gain... Well, you decide. I have."

  • 6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

    asked by

    (24553)
  • Views
    1.4K
  • Last Activity
    1284D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

2 Answers

4
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on October 07, 2011
at 05:26 PM

If I understand correctly, the usual process of metabolic syndrome and obesity is that the muscle cells become insulin resistant at a faster rate than fat cells. Thus insulin starts rising to compensate for the sake of muscle, but the fat cells, which are still sensitive, take this signal at face value and store more fat. It makes sense that adipose tissue insulin resistance would limit fattening.

I'm guessing that what is damaging the mitochondria is ROSs. Cell membranes are made of highly polyunsaturated fatty acids, which are particularly susceptible to such damage.

My current hypothesis is that people who have difficulty with carbohydrate metabolism are not properly coping with the normal ROS production involved in carbohydrate metabolism. So the inflammation is not being cleared, and it is damaging surrounding cells. Why muscle cells would be more susceptible, I don't know.

This could explain, in part, why switching to a ketogenic diet often and stops and reverses the process -- ketones don't generate as much oxidative radicals when used for fuel, and they are also antioxidative.

3
Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on October 07, 2011
at 12:17 AM

Since nobody is answering I'll give my guess. This is called lipotoxicity, where so much fat builds up in the mitochondria that their functioning is impaired. It is caused by an imbalance between the ability to oxidize fat and the need to oxidize fat, which likely comes from a breakdown in the functioning of skeletal muscle uncoupling proteins (UCP3) which assist safe fatty acid oxidation, and that is caused by leptin resistance, since leptin is needed to activate the uncoupling proteins, but if it isn't being registered in the hypothalamus then it can't get to where it needs to go. This is from the book Mastering Leptin and there are some papers on it somewhere.

edit: for typos. From now on I won't paleohack when I really need to go pee.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on October 07, 2011
at 01:51 AM

Magnesium. It is coupled to ATP production and is coupled to insulin at the cellular level. This is why diabetics have the lowest intracellular levels of mg on exactesting of red blood cells. You deplete magnesium from cells you induce intracellular calcium release and apoptosis and this blows up the inner mitochondrial membrane with a toxic ROS release at cytochrome one......

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on October 07, 2011
at 02:17 AM

Interesting, on second thought those big blobs are way to big to have been expanded by fatty acids. So you are basically saying that it what apoptosis looks like?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on October 07, 2011
at 03:40 AM

Im not saying.....electron microscopes have shown it

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on October 07, 2011
at 04:02 AM

What I meant! Neat-o.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on October 07, 2011
at 02:16 AM

Interesting, on second thought those big blobs are way to big to have been expended by fatty acids. So you are basically saying that it what apoptosis looks like?

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!