5

votes

Paleo without vegetables

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created September 29, 2012 at 8:45 PM

I'm currently slowly transitioning to a paleo diet, and on the whole, I'm doing quite well. However, I'm finding it impossible to get myself to eat vegetables. I simply hate the taste and texture, however they're prepared. I do eat fruit every day and also beef liver once a week. I'd estimate that the rest of my diet is around 90% organic, graasfed, etc. Is it possible to get all the necessary nutrients etc this way?

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on October 17, 2012
at 05:57 PM

While I'm not 100% on board with this suggestion, I feel compelled to note than when I started eating paleo ("cleaner") I started to crave more vegetables and enjoy them every which way now.

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on October 17, 2012
at 05:55 PM

This is an interesting thread, actually -- I'm one of those apparently rare types who loves bitters, sometimes even craves them, and gets her daily (medicinal!) chocolate in 100% baking form.

9c4ba98a3b480408bcf207f558fe659b

(355)

on October 04, 2012
at 10:46 AM

Nope. Juicing does not destroy fibre

B6c16d850e7305aad0507ad079ecf1d4

(232)

on October 03, 2012
at 09:16 PM

Sometimes when you cook vegetables most of their bitterness goes away, like cauliflower, cabbage, turnip...

Fc6a9e07f6056d465573c8969d3a2ddd

(370)

on October 03, 2012
at 06:01 PM

+1 for "nutritionism."

Fe39f219be9c8f98eba1c567d3afe9de

(28)

on October 03, 2012
at 05:04 PM

Thanks. The spaghetti squahs sounds doable, now I just need to find what it's called in Dutch :) (I live in Holland). I'm still trying to get my head past the eeew factor of blending veggies, but I'll definitely give it a go some time.

B6114a1980b1481fb18206064f3f4a4f

(3924)

on October 03, 2012
at 02:27 AM

You might try the smoothies with veggies and fruits as they wouldn't necessarily require you to use a knife. You could put whole berries or a banana and some romain lettuce or other mild leafy green in the blender and see how it goes. Maybe coconut milk too? Perhaps you could also buy some frozen veggies already chopped up? Then you could pour them into a blender for smoothies or put them in a pot for broth and strain them off at the end when the broth has cooled. I can buy the basic stew veggies - carrots, celery and onions already chopped and frozen at my store. Also fresh mushrooms.

B6114a1980b1481fb18206064f3f4a4f

(3924)

on October 03, 2012
at 02:21 AM

Spaghetti squash once cooked will naturally form long strands that resemble spaghetti noodles - a slightly sweet, but mostly bland starchy veggie that tastes great with salt and butter or with any type of pasta sauce. You prick it with a fork and stick it in the oven whole for an hour. You would have to then cut it in half, but if you can do that, the rest should be safe and only involves scooping out the cooked pulp with a spoon and then using a fork to lift and separate out the strands. Here's a link to my spaghetti squash alfredo: http://lowoxalateinfo.com/spaghetti-squash-alfredo/

Bc0b5d25e16dde7904ef174ed70ce8a1

(76)

on September 30, 2012
at 11:37 PM

Just because they are health-promoting when isolated, doesn't mean that when consumed as part of a plant the net effect is healt-promoting. Hopefully I'm not mischaracterising his argument, I've added links now to the original post. But my understanding of Peter's argument is that despite all the good stuff you mention, the net result is vegetables are damaging to DNA. Anti-oxidants etc are there to protect the plant itself.. not necessarily who/whatever is eating it. Therefore it's optimal to get your plants after they've first been eaten by animals.

Fe39f219be9c8f98eba1c567d3afe9de

(28)

on September 30, 2012
at 04:10 PM

It's not a question of learning, I'm physically not able to do most things required when cooking. And attempting them could be downright dangerous in some cases.

0e4e5882872d6a7c472ea51aec457e66

(1994)

on September 30, 2012
at 03:19 PM

You can learn to cook! http://www.cavekitchen.com/p/recipees.html

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 30, 2012
at 02:28 PM

I ran a diet of beef, liver, eggs, and berries through Cronometer: Short on B1 (unless you would pork), C, E, K, Ca, Mg, Mn... I'll give you Ca/Mg if you're consuming things on the bone and/or bone broth. But the thing is you can easily eat 1/3 the animal product, add in veg/starches and end up with no gaps. But I know we won't see eye to eye on this.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 30, 2012
at 02:19 PM

Phyto-nutrition is speculative? It's the original paleo diet. Aside from a handful of cultures, human diet has a high proportion of animal product.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 30, 2012
at 02:17 PM

Doesn't mean that good isn't done before they're cleared? After all, even excess vitamin C is quickly cleared from circulation.

45ace03a0eff1219943d746cfb1c4197

(3661)

on September 30, 2012
at 12:08 PM

I see, that would make a big difference. If you ever have a chance and the inclination, you might want to try roasted vegetables. They are quite different in taste and texture from steamed or microwaved.

Ef26f888ed248de197c37a4cb04ef4a7

(584)

on September 30, 2012
at 10:26 AM

Rubbish. There's literally thousands of health promoting compounds in plant foods from antioxidants, anti aging chemicals, polyphenols, flavonoids, etc. That's only touching the surface. There's more to health than the essential vitamins and minerals

Fe39f219be9c8f98eba1c567d3afe9de

(28)

on September 30, 2012
at 09:59 AM

Great tip. Sadly, due to my disabilities anything but the basic cooking is beyond me. Having said that, I've not exactly tried getting more adventurous in the kitchen yet. Are spaghetti squash noodles easy to make? It's the really fiddly stuff - cutting/chopping that's the real problem. Also, does broth made from tore bought powder or blocks count? Again, making ti from scratch is beyond me.

Fe39f219be9c8f98eba1c567d3afe9de

(28)

on September 30, 2012
at 09:52 AM

Ah, that makes sense. It's mainly the bitter ones I hate. I can stomach green peas, carrots and cucumber, but that's as far as ti goes for me.

Fe39f219be9c8f98eba1c567d3afe9de

(28)

on September 30, 2012
at 09:47 AM

Oh yeah, I forgot to add stir frying. :)

Fe39f219be9c8f98eba1c567d3afe9de

(28)

on September 30, 2012
at 09:44 AM

"You really don't like any vegetables, no matter how they're prepared?" I probably should have been a bit clearer; I'm disabled, which severely limits the ways in which I can prepare food. So basically I'm only abel to make plain steamed or microwaved veggies. Blending them in smootheis sounds good though. I mgiht give that a go.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 30, 2012
at 03:20 AM

Eggs will help too, especially if you dont do liver.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 30, 2012
at 03:19 AM

Oh, and kiwis also have potassium. Yeah, good nutrient dense fruit, nuts and some tubers with a variety of meats should actually cover you. Moreso if you do dairy, and even moreso if you do organ meats. You might want to run your diet through crono meter just to make sure though..

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 30, 2012
at 02:49 AM

Take the innuit, or the massai. The innuit would eat skin, blubber, and drink blood, as well as organs. The massai used milk and blood, as well as various whole animal meat. I think an all meat diet is possible, but as stated, you need to literally eat the whole animal, and a variety of animals, which unless you hunt yourself is hard to do. Leafy greens are the richist nutrient veggies. Fruit is not as nutrient dense as veggies, but its not bad. Id try and get in some veg too.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 30, 2012
at 02:46 AM

"But plants have phytonutrients that function as antioxidants (anthocyanins, rheosmin, other phenols) and reduce oxidative stress" Nope they are cleared from the body quickly via the liver, like toxins, at around 95%, and dont appear to function as anti-oxidants in the body.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 30, 2012
at 02:18 AM

I don't see how. Need for C and E go down to tiny amounts if you aren't eating carbohydrate, magnsium from broth and mineral water. Also, phyto-nutrition is highly speculative. They seem to act more as stressors than beneficial in and of themselves. Active person, 3k calories a day from slow cooked meat on the bone, a few eggs, a bit of liver and say 1-2 cups of berries, run a week thru fit day and mix up the berries. What is he really missing, that we can be sure about? Not much....

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 30, 2012
at 02:12 AM

You might want to research phyto-chemicals a bit, my reading seems to indicate they are mildly beneficial at best and often act as hormetic stressors rather than strictly beneficial.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 29, 2012
at 11:02 PM

Even the furtherest extreme meat eating cultures still consume some plant matter. The keyword there is extreme.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:56 PM

Anon, the answer is none. But plants have phytonutrients that function as antioxidants (anthocyanins, rheosmin, other phenols) and reduce oxidative stress. But plants are all around shitty sources of nutrients (vitamins and minerals.) If you're eating plants for the vitamins and minerals, you're doing it wrong.

B2027498e3cbbf37708f1c120a0c8142

(105)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:39 PM

I have problems with eggs sometimes so for breakfast I have been cooking bacon, then sauteing greens (spinach and collards/kale/etc) in the bacon grease and it's really good.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:39 PM

Google: Super-taster. True veggies almost universally have bitter agents in them and if you are seriously sensitive to them they taste horrible. I actually have a friend who vomited the first time they tried coffee and can't handle even Hersheys Chocolate Kisses because they are bitter.

B2027498e3cbbf37708f1c120a0c8142

(105)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:37 PM

I track magnesium and potassium and water.

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:34 PM

ya...juice them

C250cd5da05ca54ad3133630ff614573

(175)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:18 PM

Do you know an example of a vitamin or mineral that the modern man can get from vegetables but not from fruits or animal products?

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17 Answers

5
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:38 PM

I do not think you need lots of veggies. However, most people who don't like veggies per se still enjoy -

Tubers Berries Herbs Spices Coffee Tea Bulbs (onion and garlic) Mushrooms

I don't see a problem if you want to go carnivore, most people get bored and expand their horizons. If not a steak with mushrooms and a baked potato looks great from a health perspective.

5
D41bd7b3d3b962eb0146f471eb632f56

on September 29, 2012
at 09:14 PM

There are several hunter-gatherer tribes that don't depend on MUCH vegetation, and a few that seem to consume none at all. But these tribes take particular care to eat as much of the animal as possible to supply those nutrients. For example, it was common among Native American tribes to eat the intestines of animals with pre-digested plant matter still in it. Eating habits like these tend to be impossible for industrialized man, so it's probably still better to consume as much plant matter as you can tolerate and enjoy, without subjecting yourself to an arbitrary 5-servings-a-day rule.

Also, you can do several things to see if you're falling short on a nutrient. You can track your food intake on FitDay or NutritionData for a month and see if you're habitually falling short on something. Or you can get a blood test after a while to measure for your body's nutrients. The latter is likely to be more accurate, but the former is free.

C250cd5da05ca54ad3133630ff614573

(175)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:18 PM

Do you know an example of a vitamin or mineral that the modern man can get from vegetables but not from fruits or animal products?

B2027498e3cbbf37708f1c120a0c8142

(105)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:37 PM

I track magnesium and potassium and water.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:56 PM

Anon, the answer is none. But plants have phytonutrients that function as antioxidants (anthocyanins, rheosmin, other phenols) and reduce oxidative stress. But plants are all around shitty sources of nutrients (vitamins and minerals.) If you're eating plants for the vitamins and minerals, you're doing it wrong.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 30, 2012
at 02:46 AM

"But plants have phytonutrients that function as antioxidants (anthocyanins, rheosmin, other phenols) and reduce oxidative stress" Nope they are cleared from the body quickly via the liver, like toxins, at around 95%, and dont appear to function as anti-oxidants in the body.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 30, 2012
at 02:12 AM

You might want to research phyto-chemicals a bit, my reading seems to indicate they are mildly beneficial at best and often act as hormetic stressors rather than strictly beneficial.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 29, 2012
at 11:02 PM

Even the furtherest extreme meat eating cultures still consume some plant matter. The keyword there is extreme.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 30, 2012
at 02:49 AM

Take the innuit, or the massai. The innuit would eat skin, blubber, and drink blood, as well as organs. The massai used milk and blood, as well as various whole animal meat. I think an all meat diet is possible, but as stated, you need to literally eat the whole animal, and a variety of animals, which unless you hunt yourself is hard to do. Leafy greens are the richist nutrient veggies. Fruit is not as nutrient dense as veggies, but its not bad. Id try and get in some veg too.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 30, 2012
at 02:17 PM

Doesn't mean that good isn't done before they're cleared? After all, even excess vitamin C is quickly cleared from circulation.

3
45ace03a0eff1219943d746cfb1c4197

(3661)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:04 PM

You really don't like any vegetables, no matter how they're prepared? I'm dumbfounded, but that's largely because I like most veggies.

You're better off with what you're doing than you would be with grains and beans and such. Some people I know get their veggies by putting a few in a Vitamix or other powerful blender along with fruits. They insist that they don't taste or feel the vegetables at all. It has the texture of a smoothie or frozen dessert depending on whether you use frozen fruits or not.

Fe39f219be9c8f98eba1c567d3afe9de

(28)

on September 30, 2012
at 09:47 AM

Oh yeah, I forgot to add stir frying. :)

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:34 PM

ya...juice them

Fe39f219be9c8f98eba1c567d3afe9de

(28)

on September 30, 2012
at 09:44 AM

"You really don't like any vegetables, no matter how they're prepared?" I probably should have been a bit clearer; I'm disabled, which severely limits the ways in which I can prepare food. So basically I'm only abel to make plain steamed or microwaved veggies. Blending them in smootheis sounds good though. I mgiht give that a go.

45ace03a0eff1219943d746cfb1c4197

(3661)

on September 30, 2012
at 12:08 PM

I see, that would make a big difference. If you ever have a chance and the inclination, you might want to try roasted vegetables. They are quite different in taste and texture from steamed or microwaved.

3
0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

on September 29, 2012
at 09:19 PM

Yes, it is. But I would urge you to find one or two vegetables which you can tolerate and just kind of tough it out and DOWN THE HATCH.

What about squash and pumpkin? Do you like those? They're filling and have a nicer texture than most green leafy veggies.

I'm not too wild about vegetables either. I'm one of those rare souls that feels awesome on a VLC diet, but I purposely increase my carb intake with veggies, well-prepared grains and small amounts of fruit so I don't lose too much weight.

2
B6114a1980b1481fb18206064f3f4a4f

(3924)

on September 30, 2012
at 01:03 AM

If you're eating a wide variety of fruits with your meats and also eat organ meats, you're probably doing fine with your vitamins and minerals. You might try to find some teas (black, green, red or herbal) that you could enjoy for the antioxidants and phytonutrients. You might also try to find a few places you could sneak in some veggies.

As a mother of twin four-year-olds, I sneak a lot of veggies into things my boys regularly eat without them realizing the veggies are there. The secret is pureeing the veggies or chopping them really fine and not going overboard. Fruit smoothies are a great place to add a few veggies. If you like soups and stews, you can add a little tomato, onion, garlic or pumpkin puree along with your meat and potatoes. You might also consider making broth with lots of greens, carrots, celery, onion etc. and then straining the broths so you aren't eating the veggies, just the "cooking water" which should have a lot of good stuff in it. I just made a grain-free meatloaf tonight with a little tomato, onion, garlic, shredded zucchini and shredded butternut squash -the boys loved it. We also love a really meaty chili with a little bit of tomato, garlic, green pepper and onion. Have you tried spaghetti squash as a noodle substitute? I make a Spaghetti Squash Alfredo that rocks! Also you might enjoy baked squash with butter and pumpkin pie spices -- a Paleo pumpkin pie . . . Just a few veggies a week should round out your nutritional needs and help you not worry about it.

Fe39f219be9c8f98eba1c567d3afe9de

(28)

on September 30, 2012
at 09:59 AM

Great tip. Sadly, due to my disabilities anything but the basic cooking is beyond me. Having said that, I've not exactly tried getting more adventurous in the kitchen yet. Are spaghetti squash noodles easy to make? It's the really fiddly stuff - cutting/chopping that's the real problem. Also, does broth made from tore bought powder or blocks count? Again, making ti from scratch is beyond me.

0e4e5882872d6a7c472ea51aec457e66

(1994)

on September 30, 2012
at 03:19 PM

You can learn to cook! http://www.cavekitchen.com/p/recipees.html

Fe39f219be9c8f98eba1c567d3afe9de

(28)

on September 30, 2012
at 04:10 PM

It's not a question of learning, I'm physically not able to do most things required when cooking. And attempting them could be downright dangerous in some cases.

B6114a1980b1481fb18206064f3f4a4f

(3924)

on October 03, 2012
at 02:27 AM

You might try the smoothies with veggies and fruits as they wouldn't necessarily require you to use a knife. You could put whole berries or a banana and some romain lettuce or other mild leafy green in the blender and see how it goes. Maybe coconut milk too? Perhaps you could also buy some frozen veggies already chopped up? Then you could pour them into a blender for smoothies or put them in a pot for broth and strain them off at the end when the broth has cooled. I can buy the basic stew veggies - carrots, celery and onions already chopped and frozen at my store. Also fresh mushrooms.

B6114a1980b1481fb18206064f3f4a4f

(3924)

on October 03, 2012
at 02:21 AM

Spaghetti squash once cooked will naturally form long strands that resemble spaghetti noodles - a slightly sweet, but mostly bland starchy veggie that tastes great with salt and butter or with any type of pasta sauce. You prick it with a fork and stick it in the oven whole for an hour. You would have to then cut it in half, but if you can do that, the rest should be safe and only involves scooping out the cooked pulp with a spoon and then using a fork to lift and separate out the strands. Here's a link to my spaghetti squash alfredo: http://lowoxalateinfo.com/spaghetti-squash-alfredo/

Fe39f219be9c8f98eba1c567d3afe9de

(28)

on October 03, 2012
at 05:04 PM

Thanks. The spaghetti squahs sounds doable, now I just need to find what it's called in Dutch :) (I live in Holland). I'm still trying to get my head past the eeew factor of blending veggies, but I'll definitely give it a go some time.

2
9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

on September 29, 2012
at 11:33 PM

Sorry but I think there are just too many nutrients in vegetables, especially those that fill in the gaps left by a mostly meat diet (minerals, some vitamins) that vegetables have to be a significant part of your diet. You can't tell me that you hate roasted sweet potatoes (tastes like pudding), raw carrots, and everything green?

Find someone that knows how to cook them, eat them a little bit crunchy with tons of butter...

2
35b2cb4d450e5288895c255dfdfff35d

(5828)

on September 29, 2012
at 08:56 PM

Welcome to Paleohacks!

I saute most of my veggies in butter. In any case, some people here eat no veggies. Eating a variety of animal parts makes it much less likely that you'll run into a nutritional deficiency. Supplementing with Vitamin C might be a good idea although, you're likely getting some from the fruit you're eating if you're consuming citrus.

B2027498e3cbbf37708f1c120a0c8142

(105)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:39 PM

I have problems with eggs sometimes so for breakfast I have been cooking bacon, then sauteing greens (spinach and collards/kale/etc) in the bacon grease and it's really good.

1
626e61e0bd2bf1dc57cee63e62a092b3

on October 03, 2012
at 12:03 PM

I hate vegies too, but it's the only thing that could keep me from getting hungry all the time. With weight lifting, it's soooooo hard not to eat too much. Often i steam it that its really soft so i won't have to chew it much. I sound horrible im so embarrased :(

Using a juicer would help, but then you'd lose its fiber. It's the only way i get to sneak in veggies for my 2 y/o.

9c4ba98a3b480408bcf207f558fe659b

(355)

on October 04, 2012
at 10:46 AM

Nope. Juicing does not destroy fibre

1
Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 30, 2012
at 03:04 AM

It think its basically the A, C, E, K vits we are talking about here, that could be missing, plus perhaps the major minerals.

If you tolerate tubers (with skins), then that can cover A and the mineral potassium. Salt covers sodium. Mutton/lamb provides selenium and zinc (or selenium from brazil nuts.) Chocolate would help cover copper, but ideally you eat liver - which would give you various vits, especially a, and various minerals. Calcium from dairy, or almonds.

Magnesium is the only mineral that I cant figure an easier way to get without veg, but you could take oral magnesium, or epsom salts baths.

For the vits, as I said, potatoes, sweet potatoes can cover A, as I said. K can come from butter if you do dairy, or cranberries. E can come from nuts. Nuts also help with copper, calcium, magnesium and other minerals.

Vitamin C can come from fruits of course. Kiwifruit are a great source that I enjoy.

So actually, when I think about it, if you can do tubers you can mostly manage without much veg. I dont know if its optimal, but if you have a variety of nuts, high nutrient berries/fruit and a variety of tubers with some skin, and different types of meats (they have slightly different nutrition, so its good to eat a bit of every kind if you can) - youd have most of everything I can think of that might be missing.

And if you ate organ meats, then you could get away with less plant matter (though I suspect if you struggle with veg, youll find organ meats a bit tricky).

You could always also take some various dark leafy greens and blend them into a fruit smoothie. Spinach, kale, or rocket for example.

Oh, hey PHers, did I miss any nutrients?

Actually, at first I was think you defo need veg. But now I think about it, I realise yes you do need some plant matter, unless your eating whole animals, but perhaps not as much as I thought...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 30, 2012
at 03:19 AM

Oh, and kiwis also have potassium. Yeah, good nutrient dense fruit, nuts and some tubers with a variety of meats should actually cover you. Moreso if you do dairy, and even moreso if you do organ meats. You might want to run your diet through crono meter just to make sure though..

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on September 30, 2012
at 03:20 AM

Eggs will help too, especially if you dont do liver.

1
Bc0b5d25e16dde7904ef174ed70ce8a1

(76)

on September 29, 2012
at 11:45 PM

Peter, who has a great blog called Hyperlipid advocates not eating fruit and vegetables at all.

I think the argument is that they contain fructose, and they damage DNA, proteins and lipids, more than the anti-oxidant content mitigates (i.e overall they're pro-oxidant). And they're unneccessary since animals eat vegetables and so we can get all the good stuff that fruit and veg contain just from eating animals. (but good animal sources... grass-fed, seafood like oysters, mussels etc, and especially organ meats which have all the really good shit).

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Fruit%20and%20vegetables%20%281%29%20re%20post

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Fruit%20and%20vegetables%20%282%29%20damage%20your%20DNA...%20latest%20study%20headline

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Fruit%20and%20vegetables%20%283%29%20last%20post%20%28almost%29

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Fruit%20and%20vegetables%20%284%29%20The%20asterisk

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Fruit%20and%20vegetables%20%285%29%20in%20Holland

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Fruit%20and%20vegetables%20%286%29%20WHEL%20study

Ef26f888ed248de197c37a4cb04ef4a7

(584)

on September 30, 2012
at 10:26 AM

Rubbish. There's literally thousands of health promoting compounds in plant foods from antioxidants, anti aging chemicals, polyphenols, flavonoids, etc. That's only touching the surface. There's more to health than the essential vitamins and minerals

Bc0b5d25e16dde7904ef174ed70ce8a1

(76)

on September 30, 2012
at 11:37 PM

Just because they are health-promoting when isolated, doesn't mean that when consumed as part of a plant the net effect is healt-promoting. Hopefully I'm not mischaracterising his argument, I've added links now to the original post. But my understanding of Peter's argument is that despite all the good stuff you mention, the net result is vegetables are damaging to DNA. Anti-oxidants etc are there to protect the plant itself.. not necessarily who/whatever is eating it. Therefore it's optimal to get your plants after they've first been eaten by animals.

1
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 29, 2012
at 11:08 PM

What might you be short on if you don't eat some vegetable matter? Vitamins C and E and magnesium come to mind. But those are just the ones that will cause you overt deficiencies. What of the thousands, millions of different phytochemicals in plants that you might be missing out on? Something that reductionist nutritionism hasn't identified yet?

Folks will point out extreme examples like the Inuit who eat relatively little vegetable matter, they are the exception to the rule. Only because they inhibit a region relatively devoid of digestible plants. You don't see such dietary patterns anywhere else on the globe.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 30, 2012
at 02:19 PM

Phyto-nutrition is speculative? It's the original paleo diet. Aside from a handful of cultures, human diet has a high proportion of animal product.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 30, 2012
at 02:18 AM

I don't see how. Need for C and E go down to tiny amounts if you aren't eating carbohydrate, magnsium from broth and mineral water. Also, phyto-nutrition is highly speculative. They seem to act more as stressors than beneficial in and of themselves. Active person, 3k calories a day from slow cooked meat on the bone, a few eggs, a bit of liver and say 1-2 cups of berries, run a week thru fit day and mix up the berries. What is he really missing, that we can be sure about? Not much....

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 30, 2012
at 02:28 PM

I ran a diet of beef, liver, eggs, and berries through Cronometer: Short on B1 (unless you would pork), C, E, K, Ca, Mg, Mn... I'll give you Ca/Mg if you're consuming things on the bone and/or bone broth. But the thing is you can easily eat 1/3 the animal product, add in veg/starches and end up with no gaps. But I know we won't see eye to eye on this.

Fc6a9e07f6056d465573c8969d3a2ddd

(370)

on October 03, 2012
at 06:01 PM

+1 for "nutritionism."

1
F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:53 PM

Just think of them as medicine. Instead of "I need to take some pills so I don't get sick" think "I need to eat some kale so I don't get sick".

Don't think of what they taste like, just eat. Think of it as a chore - washing dishes, doing laundry, eating vegetables - JUST DO IT. Then later your brain will re-wire itself and you will start craving them.

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on October 17, 2012
at 05:57 PM

While I'm not 100% on board with this suggestion, I feel compelled to note than when I started eating paleo ("cleaner") I started to crave more vegetables and enjoy them every which way now.

1
B6c16d850e7305aad0507ad079ecf1d4

(232)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:24 PM

I don't see how it's possible to dislike ALL vegetables, considering the incredible diversity of texture and taste.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 29, 2012
at 10:39 PM

Google: Super-taster. True veggies almost universally have bitter agents in them and if you are seriously sensitive to them they taste horrible. I actually have a friend who vomited the first time they tried coffee and can't handle even Hersheys Chocolate Kisses because they are bitter.

Fe39f219be9c8f98eba1c567d3afe9de

(28)

on September 30, 2012
at 09:52 AM

Ah, that makes sense. It's mainly the bitter ones I hate. I can stomach green peas, carrots and cucumber, but that's as far as ti goes for me.

B6c16d850e7305aad0507ad079ecf1d4

(232)

on October 03, 2012
at 09:16 PM

Sometimes when you cook vegetables most of their bitterness goes away, like cauliflower, cabbage, turnip...

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on October 17, 2012
at 05:55 PM

This is an interesting thread, actually -- I'm one of those apparently rare types who loves bitters, sometimes even craves them, and gets her daily (medicinal!) chocolate in 100% baking form.

0
7c9f81d68c78de1a31eab9c91c17b4b8

on October 17, 2012
at 04:39 PM

Honestly...who gives a crap if you don't want to eat vegetables right now? I personally have to be careful how I eat veggies for digestion and they are a rare part of my daily diet. Some of them I cannot eat at all or sparingly. I think if you are eating good fat and protein sources with some fruit you should be fine. I bet you develop a taste for it later.

0
2e777bbcd49262eb31a24f821abec6bc

(1974)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:21 PM

hmm my aunt had a couple tricks for getting veggies into our diets as kids. 1 is to shred things like carrots and broccoli into small pieces and mix it in with meat. SHe used to do this in our taco meat. I also like making meat patties. I learned how to make them in Guatemala and loveee them. Basically, cut TONS of different veggies up into small pieces and mix it into your meat. You have about half meat, half veggies. Then cook this mixture like mini burger patties. You cant even taste the veggies.

little tricks like that might help. I do also make green smoothies and find that I cannot really taste the spinach in those.

0
Ef26f888ed248de197c37a4cb04ef4a7

on September 30, 2012
at 10:28 AM

You could skip vegetables for Fruit and starch and be fine. It's probabably still better to eat vegetables but you could be worse off.

0
7002d23c632d6b3dc0c5b2a6cf1ac3c0

on September 30, 2012
at 09:03 AM

I think the raw foodists are some of the healthiest looking people on the planet (NOT the fruitarians!) but the people who eat tons of veg, along with nuts and seeds. People like Dan McDonald (google "Dan the Life regenerator") He'll help you get your veggies down.

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