2

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Forks over knives question

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 23, 2012 at 1:59 PM

Just watched forks over knives and i'm sure a lot of the epidemiology set forth can be debated, but one piece of evidence stuck out: The stroke and heart attack data for Norway during ww2. Apparently the germans assimilated most or all of the livestock for their troops and left the people of Norway to cope without them. Meanwhile the stroke and heart attack rate went down dramatically during this period and rose again with the cessation of hostilities at the end of the war....

Anyone know what to make of this? It seems to be the closest that epidemiology can come to cause and effect...

7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0

(2698)

on August 23, 2012
at 05:42 PM

Agree with Dave S. Calorie restriction was probably the biggest factor. At least its a factor that without much dispute does increase longevity.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on August 23, 2012
at 02:58 PM

I interpreted what you said to mean that this came close to proving cause and effect. If that's not what you meant, then I retract my comment.

D5d982a898721d3392c85f951d0bf0aa

(2417)

on August 23, 2012
at 02:55 PM

Tee hee. Gotta love some Douglas Adams...

Dfeb3c1ef269c5dc03154d1689c14373

(716)

on August 23, 2012
at 02:40 PM

did you read what i said or did you just feel like repeating it?

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on August 23, 2012
at 02:39 PM

Yep. Sugar consumption down by 50%. Fish consumption up by 200%. Total calories down by 20%. So, it was definitely the reduction in meat that made them healthier. I tend to think the calorie restriction could be the most important factor, but maybe it was the fish. Or, all of the above. So long, and thanks for all the fish!

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on August 23, 2012
at 02:33 PM

Epidemiology can only hint at cause and effect.

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5 Answers

7
7e1433afbb06c318c4d90860d493c49d

(5959)

on August 23, 2012
at 02:05 PM

D5d982a898721d3392c85f951d0bf0aa

(2417)

on August 23, 2012
at 02:55 PM

Tee hee. Gotta love some Douglas Adams...

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on August 23, 2012
at 02:39 PM

Yep. Sugar consumption down by 50%. Fish consumption up by 200%. Total calories down by 20%. So, it was definitely the reduction in meat that made them healthier. I tend to think the calorie restriction could be the most important factor, but maybe it was the fish. Or, all of the above. So long, and thanks for all the fish!

7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0

(2698)

on August 23, 2012
at 05:42 PM

Agree with Dave S. Calorie restriction was probably the biggest factor. At least its a factor that without much dispute does increase longevity.

1
Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 24, 2012
at 03:47 AM

Denise hit it out the park.

This reminds me of The Spanish Paradox http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7754987

In Spain during the time meat, dairy, and overall saturated fat increased, cardiovascular disease decreased. It's well-documented. Does that mean that those don't contribute to cardiovascular disease? We can't say from this study because there were -confounding factors-

We wouldn't want to be cherry-picking dogmatists like Forks Over Knives.

0
963322f175cdd4c5f7d52cc372b3a167

on August 24, 2012
at 05:40 AM

Sporks over EVERYTHING...

0
E2db1519690001648433e8109eb2c013

on August 24, 2012
at 02:41 AM

I'm sure that strokes and heart disease were reduced in Auschwitz too.

Seriously, correlation is not causality. Alec points out that attempts at repetition have all failed. Maybe 5 years of tooth-gnashing rage toward a military occupation by a despotic power are the secret of better heart health.

I am only responding to the question as posted. I do not know the documentary, nor have I accessed background material. As reported, the Norway story is a classic anecdote. There is not enough information to make a trustworthy connection, even if one did exist.

I will look at Minger's notes and recommend that you do as well.

0
6ff541f607a51e47830eacb39e1ad8e4

(140)

on August 23, 2012
at 03:01 PM

About 10 years ago I actually wrote to an e-mail to Dr. Uffe Ravnskov, author of Cholesterol Myths, about that question.

He replied that sugar, cigarettes, and gasoline were also rationed. Every attempt to repeat that observation in a controlled study of the same duration as the war has failed.

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