8

votes

Moral dilemma: Would you weigh financial opportunity over personal paleo ideology? [subtitle: how to open a dunkin' donuts franchise and not go to Paleo hell]

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created August 26, 2012 at 6:11 AM

I am looking into opening a Dunkin' Donuts franchise (or similar chain) along with a few partners as an investment, but I'm having difficulty rationalizing the thought that I would be contributing to the crap-food SAD and be part of the reason that Americans are so unhealthy.

What would you do?

My daughter and I would not be eating anything we serve, but it's a moral/ethical dilemma for me to prey on/profit off of the ignorance/weakness/addiction of my customers, while simultaneously living the Paleo American dream. I don't want to go to Paleo hell of course - there will probably be a dunkin' donuts waiting for me, right past the main gate!

[background]: I'm not sure what feedback I'm expecting, but I'm curious to hear what people think about this. Like anyone else in the world, my primary goals in life are to support my family (currently just my daughter) and live a long and happy life with her. Material wealth is not the goal but financial stability certainly is. I'm an officer in the military with a decent paycheck, but with certain zones of the world in question, I'm not sure my job is meeting my "long life" requirement. The market research has shown that financial success with this endeavor is almost a slam-dunk, we just need to get in asap before a competitor does...


ETA: Thank you for all of the responses, it's been an interesting read. Just wanted to state that I asked, "what would you do?" Not, "what example am I setting for my daughter." While I appreciate the candor, understand that I'm a hormonal lactating Paleo mama who has made a crapload of sacrifices for her daughter in the name of health and love and questioning what I do with regard to her is turning on an instinct for which I am trying very hard to repress, were I to lose my cool I believe the mods would end up needing to delete my thread.

6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

(1169)

on November 28, 2013
at 08:27 PM

I wouldn't because I regard that as just about the worst food on the planet.

However I often advise franchisees generally and do do do read the contract. Do realise that after the franchise is over it's not really your business. It is the franchisor's and know the pros and cons of franchising. I get a lot of dis-satisfied franchisees wanting to break their agreement later and that's very hard. Of course it can also work very well too but make sure you read every word of the contract.

47edf681280750c3712a3a56f2eae33b

on November 21, 2012
at 08:39 AM

Shitpotle really sucks.

44894358c1cd33674c22850cc9368959

(238)

on November 21, 2012
at 07:33 AM

Best answer goes to mM

Ae8946707ddebf0f0bfbcfc63276d823

(9402)

on October 22, 2012
at 08:43 PM

Did you make a decision yet?

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 31, 2012
at 06:56 AM

No, I wouldn't. But cigarettes and junk food are on a different level to me. Probably because although I never smoked in life, I ate crap food for 27 years without a second thought. Still in the process of retraining my brain I guess. Plus, in the US, cigarettes are *thankfully* on the way out of fashion, so that would be a bad investment any way you slice it. Sugar however, not so much.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on August 31, 2012
at 06:42 AM

IMaybe it's a lifelong process..

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on August 31, 2012
at 06:42 AM

I too am prone to taking the world's worries on my shoulders, many moments.. It's difficult knowing when to hold and when to fold etc, when to challenge system and when to accept and be content within it. I am still trying to work it out!

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 29, 2012
at 02:12 AM

No worries. I was just in a mood last night and getting annoyed with some of the responses. :/ But I do know that my daughter will be affected by whatever I choose.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 29, 2012
at 02:05 AM

Yeah, I know where you're coming from. I feel like if I do go through with this, once we recover our initial investment I am going to need to open a couple paleo-friendly businesses just to make up for it. Too bad business success isn't that easy...

16e617676c5ac710e5235e0b773edc0b

(2640)

on August 29, 2012
at 12:34 AM

Why would you want to be a part of the problem rather than the solution?

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 06:50 PM

Guess I'm going to Indianapolis. :)

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on August 28, 2012
at 04:05 PM

Mm, I wasn't trying to turn it around. I apologize. Perhaps, a recent visit to my parents has left thinking in a 'daughter-like' mode. Good luck with your decision.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 11:49 AM

Honestly I asked the question hoping everyone would agree with me. Isn't that how the Internet works? I was born yesterday after all.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 11:39 AM

I know exactly what you mean.

74c54e77bb40e2006f11f87ce4c89041

(40)

on August 28, 2012
at 11:10 AM

It's funny you say about it coming from desire to help rather than a negative place - believe it or not that's the same for me, but it turns a bit negative when I get frustrated that people aren't willing to help themselves.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 28, 2012
at 08:17 AM

And since you asked "What would you do?" - I would be very careful of the example I am setting my daughter.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 28, 2012
at 08:12 AM

And please don't ask a question on an internet forum if you only want certain answers--it ain't gonna happen...

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 28, 2012
at 08:11 AM

Susan- If YOU feel good about YOUR actions, then you ARE in integrity. My point is, it doesn't matter what I or other people think. And you ARE setting an example for your daughter, no matter what you choose to do. Better that you feel good about your decision, than conflicted. Example is how kids learn about the world--or haven't you noticed?

Ae8946707ddebf0f0bfbcfc63276d823

(9402)

on August 28, 2012
at 05:33 AM

There is one opening in Indianapolis in 2-3 months. ~6 hour drive from you? The food is worth it. :)

724ac8ed9ddc603e87adf6cfb901a8d8

(325)

on August 28, 2012
at 04:45 AM

I 100% disagree with Dragonfly...this is NOT a question of morality or integrity. Do what you have to do to provide for your family, Susan and if you teach your daughter well in general she will understand why you did what you did when she is old enough.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 04:00 AM

Lol. Amazon has been pretty nice to me.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 03:57 AM

Have you ever served in the military? There are lots of complex ethical decisions that I made while deployed, some got people killed in order to protect Americans. Will someone ask me what example I'm setting for my daughter to have been a part of war when I am against violence? Everyday we balance competing beliefs. I value people, but I value my daughter more. If feeding people donuts makes my daughter's life better, donuts for everyone. I'm only slightly annoyed that my question has turned into a "what are you teaching your daughter?" as that was not the intent.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 03:33 AM

@thinner: well unfortunately, location is everything. In the area my partners and I are researching, soup and salad are not in demand. So although there's a higher profit margin, no customers = no profit any way you slice it. I do see what your saying and agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, people in this area want their fatty cakes.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 03:30 AM

@Mike - I would be interested in learning more. Too bad there isn't one by me or I'd be heading there this weekend to see/taste for myself. :)

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 03:24 AM

@PinkPika: Very true.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 03:22 AM

Thanks for the response and I appreciate the creative thinking but somehow I do not think that Dunkin Donuts (or any corporation for that matter) would like to discover that one of their franchisees had gone rogue and created their own products and were educating people about how eating their food will slowly kill them.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 03:16 AM

Not sure why my question got turned around to being about the example I am setting for my daughter. That was not its purpose and it's making me a little defensive. However, I see where you're coming from and appreciate the response.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 03:07 AM

Lots oh rhetorical questions, many of which i've considered - and precisely why I posed this question here. I thought of some of the same questions you asked this weekend while watching a report on the US tobacco industry. Clearly, from a paleo perspective, there is a similarity between their occupation and this opportunity. A father was asked if his kids questioned his job and he said yes. I can't remember how he responded, but I believe that the most important things I want my daughter to know is 1) that I love her and would do anything for her, 2) the importance of family, 3) the importance

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 02:57 AM

Somehow I think if I could pay for my daughter's education, she will not be thinking about the fact that she is attending because Mommy made people sick. That's taking my quest for other opinions a bit far... Considering I know plenty of people who eat crap once in a while and are incredible healthy.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on August 27, 2012
at 02:48 PM

A doughnut is about a dollar. Let's say 50% margin. You need to sell 2m doughnuts to make a million in gross profits. Lots of doughnuts. A salad costs 12-17 bucks. How much does lettuce cost? About the same. Need to sell a lot fewer soups and salads to make the same amount. And you can sleep happy.

Cebbca9a78d5612bf3468b273c2010d5

(452)

on August 27, 2012
at 01:43 PM

And if someone else does do it, who cares if they are not Paleo? Your (or their) eating habits do not affect what the franchise sells, that is determined by corporate.

Ba99a15e6bf870b81286791617050593

(671)

on August 27, 2012
at 11:08 AM

On the flip side, "in a case like this, the best thing to do is trust your gut." Really. Your real gut.

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on August 27, 2012
at 06:19 AM

Oh, man. Elevation burger is awesome.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on August 27, 2012
at 03:00 AM

http://www.franchisepublicity.com/failure-rates-of-the-10-most-popular-franchises/

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 27, 2012
at 02:48 AM

And there inlies my dilemma.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on August 27, 2012
at 02:46 AM

Qdoba is not. http://qdoba.com/Legacy/Franchising/franchising.aspx Btw, most fast food places make the bulk of their profits in drinks and fries. No margins in meats. This place in NYC sells only fries with various sauces and soda. There is a line out the door even at 3am. http://www.pommesfrites.ws/ You can fry potato and sweet potato in healthier oils.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 26, 2012
at 11:31 PM

Supporting family is also about principles and integrity.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 26, 2012
at 11:30 PM

Once again, sorry to sound anal about this but even as an investor, in my opinion it would seem rather odd when you're practicing such a healthy regime for yourself and your family.

782d92f4127823bdfb2ddfcbcf961d0e

(5231)

on August 26, 2012
at 10:56 PM

Interesting ethical dilemma. Everyday we all make choices that may or may not be in congruence with being "paleo" with nary a thought. Yours just happens to be writ large. Thanks for posting and I'm sure you'll make the right decision for you...but good food for thought.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 26, 2012
at 09:41 PM

I totally understand the military issue as my partner is a Lt. Col. There are investment opportunities with a 8% return, including management and maintenance costs, currently. It isn't a bad return and will escalate as inflation kicks in. (We have to pay for our war debt somehow, and raising interest rates is the most logical solution. This will increase your DD expense structure, so make sure you've factored that into your calculations.)

Ae8946707ddebf0f0bfbcfc63276d823

(9402)

on August 26, 2012
at 08:00 PM

Chipotle is not a franchise. All the stores are corporate owned.

Ae8946707ddebf0f0bfbcfc63276d823

(9402)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:58 PM

http://elevationburger.com/ i'm bringing it to michigan. 100% grass fed certified organic beef ground on site. Fries cooked in olive oil. Really good lettuce wrap option for the burger. Unprocessed 6 month aged cheddar. Happy to talk to by email or phone if you're interested in learning more.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on August 26, 2012
at 05:44 PM

So, wildwabbit, SAD crap is fine if it's fried in tallow? Wow...

3b0b95dfc6dc5c18e535945f4aab0866

(2392)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:54 PM

@susan, why not put a paleo stamp on it? Fry the donuts in lard or tallow, or at least palm oil if you can make that one taste good.

3b0b95dfc6dc5c18e535945f4aab0866

(2392)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:53 PM

@crystal, then don't invest in hospitals, pharmaceuticals, or any other industry that will profit off the continued failing health of our nation. I am conflicted personally, as such investments in pharmaceuticals and donuts only accrue profit until the course of history is changed.

Af939911afa817f79a4625d4f503c735

(552)

on August 26, 2012
at 03:18 PM

I wouldn't do it. If drugs were legal, I wouldn't sell them.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:52 PM

And unfortunately children don't distinguish between illegal & legal activities wrt to integrity.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:50 PM

Oh, and I forgot to mention; Integrity is all about YOUR actions matching YOUR values. You can change your values OR your actions in order to be in integrity. It has nothing to do with anyone else's belief about right/wrong--that's where morality/ethics come in.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:22 PM

Only if you make it your problem. You have a job. There is no hurry about choosing an investment. But it sounds like you've already made your decision.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:14 PM

But I agree with what youre saying. DD to a paleo is like Cocaine to most people. I don't use cocaine and I will teach my daughter not to, but if I could make millions selling crack without being prosecuted, would I? No, because it's crack! However, like borofergie said, eating donuts is not illegal. This is my problem.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:55 PM

$$ doesn't bring happiness. But lack of money does bring unhappiness...

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:52 PM

I agree with where you're coming from and I do want to believe in (and enjoy!) whatever I do, but it's hard to walk away from what appears to be a gold mine (I know, "famous last words..."). My rationalization for your answer would be that, for now, my role in this franchise would be investor. I will contribute to big picture decisions but the day-to-day operations are being handled by the more customer-savvy person in our group. And he isn't paleo, despite my best efforts. :)

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:48 PM

Kids learn from example, more than from anything they are taught in school. I think you are setting her up for making choices that will be a detriment to her in the long run. As a life coach, I witness that people who are out of integrity get sick more and are unhappier than folk who are in their integrity. $$ doesn't bring happiness. People in their integrity & doing what they love=happiness, in my experience.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:45 PM

Lol. To hell with others. If it were that simple for me, I'd be a man. ;)

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:43 PM

I think integrity and a personal sense of morality along with my code of ethics are all intertwined, which is why I'm trying to rationalize it. And I'm with you, you basically asked y question in different words. But I also think she will benefit from having a solid college fund and from never having to suffer financial hardship to the degree I did as a child.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:38 PM

I have toyed with the idea of getting into real estate and do have a rental property in WA (managed by a property manager since I'm over 1,000 miles away). My concern is that, for now, I'm required to stay in the military for at least another few years (they just paid for my Masters degree) and if I were to seriously tap into real estate, I would want to move to wherever I intent to focus my investments and know that the Army wouldn't make me move in a year or two. Property managers are pricey and I'd rather do it myself (at least at first). Thanks for your answer though, very helpful insight.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:31 PM

I disagree with you, but I respect your opinion and up-voted you nonetheless. Paleo isn't a template for me, it's a way of eating/exercising to maximize the human potential for health while minimizing certain negative environmental factors of our society. What is part of my identity is not wanting to hurt people (yeah, and I'm in the Army... Lol) and wanting for others to experience the improved health benefits of what I have discovered myself through the process of learning about nutrition. Paleo didn't make me this way, it just gave me something else to believe in. *Stepping off my soapbox.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:24 PM

Oh and I'm not stressing about what anyone is saying. The responses I am getting are very interesting. And proving to me how many smart people we have in our little niche.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:22 PM

Exactly. And I bet they aren't paleo...

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:21 PM

Lol. These thoughts do run through my head as well. Like, if only I could find a way to single-handedly take down Monsanto! I know this store would play a very small role in comparison to the big picture, but the problem is that it would play a huge role in my own life..

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:17 PM

Well I am human and I have seen remarkable improvements in my own health/life eating this way so it is hard not to judge people, even subconsciously (ex: grocery check out line). So yes, I do have this problem. However, for me it's not from a negative place but from a desire to help and educate others on better choices for better health. DD (along with most chain restaurants) just seems to be the antithesis of what I'm about. And there inlies my conundrum.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:13 PM

Thanks for the comment. I've definitely done my own research (and souls searching) to see if I can see my self working with these people in the future. I'm optimistic about that aspect of this decision.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:11 PM

What Amanda said. In a previous life, I could have lived at a DD. However, I weighed about 40 lbs more and was destined for diabetes in said life.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:10 PM

Chipotle does sound delicious. And I'm aware no business is a slam dunk but with as risk-averse as I tend to be, this opportunity is as close to one as I can get. And although my Economics degree isn't exactly a business background, the three MBAs I'm partnering with seem to know what they're talking about. (Plus, we did hire professionals to do the market research.)

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:06 PM

Yeah, that's true..

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:52 PM

Good point about the QA/QC. Not sure why that never entered my mind. May I ask what franchise you are opening?

4b5be253ac1981c690689cab7e4bf06d

(3043)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:29 PM

Dunkin sells more coffee, which has a much higher markup. Krispy Kreme mainly sells donuts,.which cost more and have more waste.

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:19 PM

I never understood the Krispy Kreme thing. I grew up in the NW and there was a brief novelty when they opened a store in Tacoma but I don't remember anyone I knew going there more than once.

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:15 PM

But as you said-- You're paid well, but your safety may come into question. I find that less likely owning a Dunkin Donuts than working in the military. So you may be financially stable now, but will your safety be as stable for your family? If you have the opportunity, your family comes first and there will be other jobs later.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:58 AM

We have a frost donuts here and they have a bacon maple bar... have never tried it but folks love it...

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:54 AM

Nice to hear from a fellow Washingtonian!

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:22 AM

Yeah, but you're in Seattle. I just left the Tacoma area about a year ago and truly miss civilization. :) Here in the middle-of-nowhere, the top attraction in my town is Walmart. Yeah, Walmart... :(

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:17 AM

I'm not really a Jimmy-fan, though I know he's a smart guy. I just can't get over that sweet-potato "experiment" he did a few months back. Stevia + sweet potato... bleh.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:12 AM

Yep, you've basically outlined where my mind goes when I question if I should do this. I am not a selfish person, but this feels like a selfish decision... granted, in my scenario, I'm concerned about the lives of people I don't even know.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:11 AM

I agree to an extent. The thing I struggle with is that I have no issue supporting my family, I'm paid well. The thing is that this is an opportunity to set myself up for a prosperous future, banking on the poor dietary habits of others.

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30 Answers

16
Ae8946707ddebf0f0bfbcfc63276d823

(9402)

on August 26, 2012
at 11:46 AM

There are many, many franchise opportunities out there. I am about to start one, and I chose one where I love the food (both delicious and paleo-friendly). I think it's much easier to be successful in a business where you believe in the product. It makes quality control much more effective if the owner is tasting the food regularly. It makes it much easier to connect with the customers, do marketing, do PR, etc. So I would say, even if the decision is based solely on financial success, you'll do much better picking a franchise with food you like.

Not to mention that any job (including business ownership) is much more satisfying/fulfilling when you believe in what you're doing.

Ae8946707ddebf0f0bfbcfc63276d823

(9402)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:58 PM

http://elevationburger.com/ i'm bringing it to michigan. 100% grass fed certified organic beef ground on site. Fries cooked in olive oil. Really good lettuce wrap option for the burger. Unprocessed 6 month aged cheddar. Happy to talk to by email or phone if you're interested in learning more.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 03:30 AM

@Mike - I would be interested in learning more. Too bad there isn't one by me or I'd be heading there this weekend to see/taste for myself. :)

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:52 PM

Good point about the QA/QC. Not sure why that never entered my mind. May I ask what franchise you are opening?

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on August 27, 2012
at 06:19 AM

Oh, man. Elevation burger is awesome.

Ae8946707ddebf0f0bfbcfc63276d823

(9402)

on August 28, 2012
at 05:33 AM

There is one opening in Indianapolis in 2-3 months. ~6 hour drive from you? The food is worth it. :)

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 06:50 PM

Guess I'm going to Indianapolis. :)

12
43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on August 26, 2012
at 11:45 AM

Why not open a chipotle or other such franchise that better suits your values?

And no business venture is a slam dunk. Especially for folks without a business background. Talk to people who are not paid by you buying this franchise, but are independent professionals.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on August 27, 2012
at 02:46 AM

Qdoba is not. http://qdoba.com/Legacy/Franchising/franchising.aspx Btw, most fast food places make the bulk of their profits in drinks and fries. No margins in meats. This place in NYC sells only fries with various sauces and soda. There is a line out the door even at 3am. http://www.pommesfrites.ws/ You can fry potato and sweet potato in healthier oils.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:10 PM

Chipotle does sound delicious. And I'm aware no business is a slam dunk but with as risk-averse as I tend to be, this opportunity is as close to one as I can get. And although my Economics degree isn't exactly a business background, the three MBAs I'm partnering with seem to know what they're talking about. (Plus, we did hire professionals to do the market research.)

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on August 27, 2012
at 03:00 AM

http://www.franchisepublicity.com/failure-rates-of-the-10-most-popular-franchises/

Ae8946707ddebf0f0bfbcfc63276d823

(9402)

on August 26, 2012
at 08:00 PM

Chipotle is not a franchise. All the stores are corporate owned.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on August 27, 2012
at 02:48 PM

A doughnut is about a dollar. Let's say 50% margin. You need to sell 2m doughnuts to make a million in gross profits. Lots of doughnuts. A salad costs 12-17 bucks. How much does lettuce cost? About the same. Need to sell a lot fewer soups and salads to make the same amount. And you can sleep happy.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 03:33 AM

@thinner: well unfortunately, location is everything. In the area my partners and I are researching, soup and salad are not in demand. So although there's a higher profit margin, no customers = no profit any way you slice it. I do see what your saying and agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, people in this area want their fatty cakes.

47edf681280750c3712a3a56f2eae33b

on November 21, 2012
at 08:39 AM

Shitpotle really sucks.

9
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:23 PM

Personally, I think it's a matter of integrity, rather than a moral dilemma.

What example are you setting for your daughter if you insist on avoiding wheat/sugar/plant oils because of your health & then make your living selling the stuff to others?

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:22 PM

Only if you make it your problem. You have a job. There is no hurry about choosing an investment. But it sounds like you've already made your decision.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:50 PM

Oh, and I forgot to mention; Integrity is all about YOUR actions matching YOUR values. You can change your values OR your actions in order to be in integrity. It has nothing to do with anyone else's belief about right/wrong--that's where morality/ethics come in.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:55 PM

$$ doesn't bring happiness. But lack of money does bring unhappiness...

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:52 PM

And unfortunately children don't distinguish between illegal & legal activities wrt to integrity.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 03:57 AM

Have you ever served in the military? There are lots of complex ethical decisions that I made while deployed, some got people killed in order to protect Americans. Will someone ask me what example I'm setting for my daughter to have been a part of war when I am against violence? Everyday we balance competing beliefs. I value people, but I value my daughter more. If feeding people donuts makes my daughter's life better, donuts for everyone. I'm only slightly annoyed that my question has turned into a "what are you teaching your daughter?" as that was not the intent.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 28, 2012
at 08:12 AM

And please don't ask a question on an internet forum if you only want certain answers--it ain't gonna happen...

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 02:14 PM

But I agree with what youre saying. DD to a paleo is like Cocaine to most people. I don't use cocaine and I will teach my daughter not to, but if I could make millions selling crack without being prosecuted, would I? No, because it's crack! However, like borofergie said, eating donuts is not illegal. This is my problem.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:48 PM

Kids learn from example, more than from anything they are taught in school. I think you are setting her up for making choices that will be a detriment to her in the long run. As a life coach, I witness that people who are out of integrity get sick more and are unhappier than folk who are in their integrity. $$ doesn't bring happiness. People in their integrity & doing what they love=happiness, in my experience.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:43 PM

I think integrity and a personal sense of morality along with my code of ethics are all intertwined, which is why I'm trying to rationalize it. And I'm with you, you basically asked y question in different words. But I also think she will benefit from having a solid college fund and from never having to suffer financial hardship to the degree I did as a child.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 28, 2012
at 08:17 AM

And since you asked "What would you do?" - I would be very careful of the example I am setting my daughter.

724ac8ed9ddc603e87adf6cfb901a8d8

(325)

on August 28, 2012
at 04:45 AM

I 100% disagree with Dragonfly...this is NOT a question of morality or integrity. Do what you have to do to provide for your family, Susan and if you teach your daughter well in general she will understand why you did what you did when she is old enough.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 11:49 AM

Honestly I asked the question hoping everyone would agree with me. Isn't that how the Internet works? I was born yesterday after all.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on August 28, 2012
at 08:11 AM

Susan- If YOU feel good about YOUR actions, then you ARE in integrity. My point is, it doesn't matter what I or other people think. And you ARE setting an example for your daughter, no matter what you choose to do. Better that you feel good about your decision, than conflicted. Example is how kids learn about the world--or haven't you noticed?

9
8e10b687e328468783a72c55b64710e8

on August 26, 2012
at 06:16 AM

Do what you must do, financial stability for your family comes first. I would do it. It's not my fault people like Dunkin Donuts. There will be other opportunities to choose better jobs, but not for now. You need to support your family.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:11 AM

I agree to an extent. The thing I struggle with is that I have no issue supporting my family, I'm paid well. The thing is that this is an opportunity to set myself up for a prosperous future, banking on the poor dietary habits of others.

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:15 PM

But as you said-- You're paid well, but your safety may come into question. I find that less likely owning a Dunkin Donuts than working in the military. So you may be financially stable now, but will your safety be as stable for your family? If you have the opportunity, your family comes first and there will be other jobs later.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:06 PM

Yeah, that's true..

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 26, 2012
at 11:31 PM

Supporting family is also about principles and integrity.

6
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:36 PM

Awesome question. Apologies for the paternalistic advice that follows.

If you speak to, or learn about people that have been very successful commercially you will find that one thing they have in common is that they love what they do. Unless you're sociopathic (and don't take offence, there's a great many people that are but manage to live decent lives) you may find that knowing you're selling what is, in effect, a metabolic poison may impede your chances of running a successful business.

My advice would be to consider an alternative.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:52 PM

I agree with where you're coming from and I do want to believe in (and enjoy!) whatever I do, but it's hard to walk away from what appears to be a gold mine (I know, "famous last words..."). My rationalization for your answer would be that, for now, my role in this franchise would be investor. I will contribute to big picture decisions but the day-to-day operations are being handled by the more customer-savvy person in our group. And he isn't paleo, despite my best efforts. :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 26, 2012
at 11:30 PM

Once again, sorry to sound anal about this but even as an investor, in my opinion it would seem rather odd when you're practicing such a healthy regime for yourself and your family.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 27, 2012
at 02:48 AM

And there inlies my dilemma.

6
Fd7b128cf714044a86d8bd822c7a8992

(4292)

on August 26, 2012
at 11:15 AM

This might be just me being pessimistic or cynical or something, but:

It might be wrong. But it doesn't matter. Our entire culture/system is completely fucked up in so many ways that your individual participation in it isn't going to cause any noticeable impact either way. You probably also buy things made by 10-year-old slaves in China but don't feel guilty about it every time you look at your computer or your cell phone. I think it's very admirable to do good for individual people (e.g. your daughter) but there's absolutely no point trying to change the system because megacorporations >>>> you. That also means it's pointless to feel guilty about not changing the system. You and your family want a reasonable degree of social/financial security; realistically, you're going to have to participate in the system that surrounds you in order to get that. It's not your fault the system is corrupt.

So basically, it might be morally wrong, but if you wanted live 100% ethically in modern America, you'd have to give up all non-renewable energy use, most consumer goods and, depending on your economic philosophy, potentially all participation in economic exchange (and if you did this, you'd necessarily have to live on a farm and grow all your own food, sew your own clothes, etc - try doing that without gas-powered farming tools!). And just by owning land here you'd still be indirectly benefiting from genocide unless you're of Native American ancestry. You live in an unjust society, so there's no point blaming yourself for trying to do the best by your family with the options available to you.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:21 PM

Lol. These thoughts do run through my head as well. Like, if only I could find a way to single-handedly take down Monsanto! I know this store would play a very small role in comparison to the big picture, but the problem is that it would play a huge role in my own life..

5
Efba2b071e8f4c54acbc1da52ac91030

(199)

on August 26, 2012
at 08:20 AM

Well, in a case like this, the best thing to do is to trust your gut. Dunkin Donuts is more progressive in nutrition than other establishments. I do remember being impressed with their turkey sausage/egg white breakfast sandwiches in my pre-paleo days. Who knows if Dunkin Donuts is going to embrace gluten-free in the next few years; they just might. Also, the experience and investment returns of this opportunity may open doors in the future for something more your style.

Dunkin Donuts also has excellent coffee, so even now, if I lived near one I would definitely visit it. I remember once being shocked to see Robb Wolf in a local breakfast place known for their quiches, pastries and sandwiches. I asked him what he ate here, and he said the coffee!

I would be more concerned with who will be your partners. Partnerships are like marriages, except worse. Get your own legal counsel to review your agreements. Also, talk to other franchisees to find out the real scoop on corporate. I have seen more than a few business owners loose their life-savings after buying into problem franchisers like Quiznos or Cold-Stone Creamery.

Ba99a15e6bf870b81286791617050593

(671)

on August 27, 2012
at 11:08 AM

On the flip side, "in a case like this, the best thing to do is trust your gut." Really. Your real gut.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:13 PM

Thanks for the comment. I've definitely done my own research (and souls searching) to see if I can see my self working with these people in the future. I'm optimistic about that aspect of this decision.

4
B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:32 PM

All the good money is in exploitation (when presented with the choice of an "ethical fund" for my pension, I asked if might be able to invest in an "unethical" fund instead for this reason).

Eating Donuts is not illegal, if the suckers want to feed their carb addiction, I say you take their cash.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:45 PM

Lol. To hell with others. If it were that simple for me, I'd be a man. ;)

4
Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:50 PM

There are better long term investments than DD, especially if you plan to have time for your family. I'd suggest real estate (mid market rentals) as interest rates are set to increase in about a year and that puts upward pressure on rents. (I used be a retail real estate strategist for some big brands...and then made a lot of money investing at the top of the market. Yes, you read that correctly - I beat the market by targeting an under-served segment.)

Plus VA loans can be very helpful when it comes to getting started in real estate :)

Do some research into "Post War Economics" to see what economic trends we'll be facing in the next 20 years.

And if you do decide to go the DD route, be very careful about the location you choose. Retail IS all about real estate and you'll need to look at the demographic trends in that area with a microscope.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:38 PM

I have toyed with the idea of getting into real estate and do have a rental property in WA (managed by a property manager since I'm over 1,000 miles away). My concern is that, for now, I'm required to stay in the military for at least another few years (they just paid for my Masters degree) and if I were to seriously tap into real estate, I would want to move to wherever I intent to focus my investments and know that the Army wouldn't make me move in a year or two. Property managers are pricey and I'd rather do it myself (at least at first). Thanks for your answer though, very helpful insight.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 26, 2012
at 09:41 PM

I totally understand the military issue as my partner is a Lt. Col. There are investment opportunities with a 8% return, including management and maintenance costs, currently. It isn't a bad return and will escalate as inflation kicks in. (We have to pay for our war debt somehow, and raising interest rates is the most logical solution. This will increase your DD expense structure, so make sure you've factored that into your calculations.)

3
C8b2136ef95ba6aac211825ff38cc0e9

on August 28, 2012
at 05:09 AM

I think this is a great question. For me, it is easy to answer though. No. I would not invest. I believe there is an abundance of opportunities for investment. I am a huge believer in kharma. The money you put out affects the world which comes back to you. I have no judgement for you, if what you put out is that this is good for your daughter, than this is what you will get back....what is good for your daughter. Excellent sentiment. Good parenting.

I suggest also considering that you put out health for yourself and those around you. You're not negligent if you don't, but it's something to think about. I'm sure I know happy people who eat donuts and that sounds lovely to me.

My choice would be to act on my truth/beliefs insofar as I have the option. My options are waaaaay more limited than I would like to admit. I have no idea what they are for you, so think, feel, and do what your gut says after that.

3
Dc6407193ba441d1438f6f0c06af872b

on August 27, 2012
at 05:53 AM

Your behavior matters. If you open an establishment with crap food, that's more crap food that ignorant parents will give to their victimized children. If you open an estabishment with quality food, that's more quality food that ignorant parents will give to their lucky children.

Your daughter will go to college if she wants. She might have to take out loans, but it'll be okay. Do you really want her to know that she was able to attend college without having to wash dishes in the cafeteria on the backs of some kids that were that entered adulthood closer to diabetes than they otherwise would have been if you hadn't served them donuts three times per week?

I'm not going to say don't do it, especially if you don't have a decent choice. I'm just saying to make sure you've examined other alternatives very well. You might convince yourself to go ahead now, but are you sure you won't be regretting this decision later?

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 02:57 AM

Somehow I think if I could pay for my daughter's education, she will not be thinking about the fact that she is attending because Mommy made people sick. That's taking my quest for other opinions a bit far... Considering I know plenty of people who eat crap once in a while and are incredible healthy.

2
47edf681280750c3712a3a56f2eae33b

on November 21, 2012
at 08:35 AM

I hope you don't feel that Paleo is somehow "morally superior" to other ways of eating. It may be working for you, but a donut really works for someone else and they shouldn't be denied. As a Paleo, you know how we face denial of our desired foodstuffs daily, just read the ingredients on most food and it has canola oil, soy or wheat even if it is touted as healthy. Everybody loves coffee. Do it for the love of coffee.

2
44894358c1cd33674c22850cc9368959

on November 21, 2012
at 07:39 AM

It's free will, not addiction, ignorance or weakness. I eat a few donuts occasionally and I don't consider myself ignorant, weak or addicted. Be real, no one who eats donuts is thinking they are consuming health food. So unless you're claiming you're donuts are superfoods that will melt of the pounds and leave you nourished and healthy then you're not doing anything wrong.

I can guarantee you're decision on whether or not to buy a donut franchise or not will have no bearing on the health crisis this nation is facing.

2
7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

on August 28, 2012
at 10:08 PM

I could not own a bar in good conscience.

Just say'n.

Mike

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 29, 2012
at 02:05 AM

Yeah, I know where you're coming from. I feel like if I do go through with this, once we recover our initial investment I am going to need to open a couple paleo-friendly businesses just to make up for it. Too bad business success isn't that easy...

2
3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on August 28, 2012
at 04:46 AM

I would not personally partake in such business. It's exactly the reason why the world is so sick as it is today with all the selected wheat and super-gluten, sick animals and what not: financial opportunity. By actively opening such a business you make a lot of people sick without them knowing it (since 7/10 are gluten intolerant without knowing it, according to recent research). It's not about what they know though, because you know that what you do does not help the world. I'd steer clear from this, open a Paleo restaurant instead.

2
E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on August 27, 2012
at 11:00 PM

Easy Alternative: Apple stock :)

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 04:00 AM

Lol. Amazon has been pretty nice to me.

2
7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

on August 26, 2012
at 11:40 AM

If you don't do it someone else will

Cebbca9a78d5612bf3468b273c2010d5

(452)

on August 27, 2012
at 01:43 PM

And if someone else does do it, who cares if they are not Paleo? Your (or their) eating habits do not affect what the franchise sells, that is determined by corporate.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:22 PM

Exactly. And I bet they aren't paleo...

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 03:24 AM

@PinkPika: Very true.

2
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on August 26, 2012
at 06:59 AM

In our area Krispy Kreme donuts are not doing so well... I am not sure about Dunkin Donuts though...

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:19 PM

I never understood the Krispy Kreme thing. I grew up in the NW and there was a brief novelty when they opened a store in Tacoma but I don't remember anyone I knew going there more than once.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:11 PM

What Amanda said. In a previous life, I could have lived at a DD. However, I weighed about 40 lbs more and was destined for diabetes in said life.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:58 AM

We have a frost donuts here and they have a bacon maple bar... have never tried it but folks love it...

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:22 AM

Yeah, but you're in Seattle. I just left the Tacoma area about a year ago and truly miss civilization. :) Here in the middle-of-nowhere, the top attraction in my town is Walmart. Yeah, Walmart... :(

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:54 AM

Nice to hear from a fellow Washingtonian!

4b5be253ac1981c690689cab7e4bf06d

(3043)

on August 26, 2012
at 12:29 PM

Dunkin sells more coffee, which has a much higher markup. Krispy Kreme mainly sells donuts,.which cost more and have more waste.

1
61848fb3934eb0f08abacf0b920bf81b

on December 28, 2012
at 09:41 PM

Make money. Do it on whatever terms that will still let you look yourself in the mirror. A well funded bank roll will provide for you and your family, and a well run franchise could provide generations of economic stability to you and yours.

Just because donuts aren't health food doesn't mean that shouldn't exist. People are free to make their own choices and you are not the gatekeeper of moral eating.

My 2 cents. :)

EDIT :

Having said that, some of the best businesses fill a gap in the market and cater towards a niche - maybe you can think of a model that will let you monetize the healthy lifestyle you love while sharing it with others.

1
8b43a878b4768ff32e1eb48fb6059429

on December 28, 2012
at 09:34 PM

Interesting set of responses. I suspect the reason you posted the question on a public forum is that your conscience is telling you not to go into this. It would be one thing if your livelihood depended on it, but you said it doesn't. If you feel bad already, is it really going to get better? I wouldn't just be worried for the good of the community (people are responsible for themselves), but for your own good. That guilt is a big stressor to have on your shoulders. Think of your own happiness and sense of peace. There are plenty of ways to make money.

1
532cfd279d793e8fcc23b9f6d91dde5c

(1981)

on December 28, 2012
at 06:52 PM

I don't think I could do it. I won't even hand out candy to trick-or-treaters, even though candy is what they are after, because I feel guilty about passively condoning garbage food.

1
Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

on August 31, 2012
at 06:37 AM

I know I've answered already, what about the cigarette analogy? Would you feel comfortable being a cigarette franchiser?

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 31, 2012
at 06:56 AM

No, I wouldn't. But cigarettes and junk food are on a different level to me. Probably because although I never smoked in life, I ate crap food for 27 years without a second thought. Still in the process of retraining my brain I guess. Plus, in the US, cigarettes are *thankfully* on the way out of fashion, so that would be a bad investment any way you slice it. Sugar however, not so much.

1
B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on August 28, 2012
at 01:59 AM

While financial security is something to be concerned about, especially with a child to support, I think there are a few things to consider:

Is this the kind of example you'd like to set for your daughter? Aren't you sending the message that it is 'okay' to willingly support a food industry that literally poisons people? That she should stay paleo because it's 'good for her' but it's 'okay' to be apart of a business encouraging (and making a profit from, no less) people to eat in a manner that is not good for them?

I see the other side of this too. You are trying to support your family, this venture is profitable. Our economy is getting worse and worse ...

But, if you see the Paleo lifestyle as a means to live a healthier, happier, and more fulfilling life (what we eat both impacts us physically, as well as, mentally)-- and want that of your daughter--wouldn't you want that for your friends, family, and your community? Don't you want to encourage an environment of health? of holding firm to your beliefs? Don't you want to instill in your daughter a sense of care for not only herself but of her community? (Starting up a sugar-and-wheat-cancer-causing drive-thru doesn't seem like it'd send that message....)

Personally, I wouldn't do it. But, it's your call, you know what's best for you and your family; I laud you for considering the ethical implications before jumping into it.

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on August 28, 2012
at 04:05 PM

Mm, I wasn't trying to turn it around. I apologize. Perhaps, a recent visit to my parents has left thinking in a 'daughter-like' mode. Good luck with your decision.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 03:07 AM

Lots oh rhetorical questions, many of which i've considered - and precisely why I posed this question here. I thought of some of the same questions you asked this weekend while watching a report on the US tobacco industry. Clearly, from a paleo perspective, there is a similarity between their occupation and this opportunity. A father was asked if his kids questioned his job and he said yes. I can't remember how he responded, but I believe that the most important things I want my daughter to know is 1) that I love her and would do anything for her, 2) the importance of family, 3) the importance

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 03:16 AM

Not sure why my question got turned around to being about the example I am setting for my daughter. That was not its purpose and it's making me a little defensive. However, I see where you're coming from and appreciate the response.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 29, 2012
at 02:12 AM

No worries. I was just in a mood last night and getting annoyed with some of the responses. :/ But I do know that my daughter will be affected by whatever I choose.

1
743c6f14bdff360777531b6d16a5d4e0

on August 27, 2012
at 07:07 AM

Perhaps you should take this opportunity to educate the dunkin donut eating community. While I agree with Michael, if its something you must do than perhaps think about using the profits to develop an educational program to teach children and their parents of the benefits of eating healthy. Maybe even a paleo pamphlet next to the cash register? Even better try an introduce a paleo-donut, one made of pure unadulterated meat cooked in saturated animal fat with a nice crunchy nut coating; hmmm id buy that.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 03:22 AM

Thanks for the response and I appreciate the creative thinking but somehow I do not think that Dunkin Donuts (or any corporation for that matter) would like to discover that one of their franchisees had gone rogue and created their own products and were educating people about how eating their food will slowly kill them.

1
153c4e4a22734ded15bf4eb35b448e85

(762)

on August 26, 2012
at 11:49 AM

It's funny how much paleos are like vegans, so many of these questions are like straight from a vegan board - ethical dilemma, can I invest into a shop which sells animal products etc.

Paleo is just a template, when it starts to turn into your life, when you start to take it into your identity etc. then I would seriously stop, and think if basically a diet should have so much effect on you.

I know that sisson and people like that are trying to turn the whole grok thing and stuff like that into a "paleo identity", but that's just clever marketing for people who need to "belong", the same way vegans turn into tribes, because they need to have something from outside themselves that polices their lives.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:31 PM

I disagree with you, but I respect your opinion and up-voted you nonetheless. Paleo isn't a template for me, it's a way of eating/exercising to maximize the human potential for health while minimizing certain negative environmental factors of our society. What is part of my identity is not wanting to hurt people (yeah, and I'm in the Army... Lol) and wanting for others to experience the improved health benefits of what I have discovered myself through the process of learning about nutrition. Paleo didn't make me this way, it just gave me something else to believe in. *Stepping off my soapbox.

44894358c1cd33674c22850cc9368959

(238)

on November 21, 2012
at 07:33 AM

Best answer goes to mM

1
74c54e77bb40e2006f11f87ce4c89041

on August 26, 2012
at 10:39 AM

I personally would not, as I would end up thinking negative thoughts about my customers, which would probably affect my customer service. It's not that I bear anyone any personal ill-will, I mean it really could just be a 'sometimes' thing for them, I just get frustrated with the lack of healthy fast-food progress being made.

A KFC just opened in the train station I walk through every day (until then, the food choices there were pretty good), and since opening they've been PACKED... it's hard to watch.

That being said, you don't seem to have my problem, and think this is a great opportunity, so stuff what anyone might say, it's your choice - you don't need to stress about what people on the internet might say about you. Who knows, you might make enough to open your own healthy joint.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:24 PM

Oh and I'm not stressing about what anyone is saying. The responses I am getting are very interesting. And proving to me how many smart people we have in our little niche.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:17 PM

Well I am human and I have seen remarkable improvements in my own health/life eating this way so it is hard not to judge people, even subconsciously (ex: grocery check out line). So yes, I do have this problem. However, for me it's not from a negative place but from a desire to help and educate others on better choices for better health. DD (along with most chain restaurants) just seems to be the antithesis of what I'm about. And there inlies my conundrum.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 28, 2012
at 11:39 AM

I know exactly what you mean.

74c54e77bb40e2006f11f87ce4c89041

(40)

on August 28, 2012
at 11:10 AM

It's funny you say about it coming from desire to help rather than a negative place - believe it or not that's the same for me, but it turns a bit negative when I get frustrated that people aren't willing to help themselves.

1
Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

on August 26, 2012
at 06:25 AM

Seeing the people getting doughnuts all the time might horrify you and you might feel guilty but then again, the system is geared towards such establishments popping up, and whether or not you're part of it might be inconsequential. We all contribute to various extents to the functioning of the current capitalist/whatever system, with all its dysfucntion, but the question is to what degree. How does the academy/phd student feel in compairson to the compensation lawyer? O Different people will have different answers and prioriies, and feel differently about what they do.

You are also coming from the military and probably contributing to the 'system' and the state's organistion of violence there, although that's problably a unhelpful, and possibly flawed analogy. Does note using teh self-service at teh supermarket subvert the system of labour cutting etc? I don't know.

It's a tough question. There are arguemnts each way but in the end it might come down to your intuition/what you really want within youself. I hope you're happy whatever you choose, I appreciate your priorities in life.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:12 AM

Yep, you've basically outlined where my mind goes when I question if I should do this. I am not a selfish person, but this feels like a selfish decision... granted, in my scenario, I'm concerned about the lives of people I don't even know.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on August 31, 2012
at 06:42 AM

I too am prone to taking the world's worries on my shoulders, many moments.. It's difficult knowing when to hold and when to fold etc, when to challenge system and when to accept and be content within it. I am still trying to work it out!

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on August 31, 2012
at 06:42 AM

IMaybe it's a lifelong process..

0
31bce7f4b1ff1d32a2b0777dada5b4cd

on November 28, 2013
at 10:51 AM

According to economic theories, an investment is defined as the per-unit production of goods that have not been used, but would be utilized for future production. An example of this form of investment includes tangible goods such as construction of a factory or bridge, as well as intangible goods such as six months of on-job training. With regards to national production and income, GDP (Gross Domestic Product) has a vital constituent, which is called gross investment.

0
6f4425e3c7dc0efe60da531c5d991487

on December 28, 2012
at 09:19 PM

Seriously, why is this a dilemma? I hate to sound crass, but grow a sack and don't continue to pollute our streets and bodies with junk stores and junk food.

And, one more thing: Why do you need our approval (or disapproval) in order to come to a decision?

-2
963322f175cdd4c5f7d52cc372b3a167

on August 26, 2012
at 06:58 AM

I would pose this question over at Livin' La Vida Low Carb. Jimmy know all about these sorts of Faustian bargains.

Fb677d93955eb0fac597e3d94db92980

(1115)

on August 26, 2012
at 07:17 AM

I'm not really a Jimmy-fan, though I know he's a smart guy. I just can't get over that sweet-potato "experiment" he did a few months back. Stevia + sweet potato... bleh.

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