1

votes

Why would eliminating milk make me hypotensive?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created August 16, 2011 at 1:15 PM

Ok, decided to finally cut the dairy and seem to have become hypotensive. Thought it could be postural/orthostatic hypotension, but it seems to be constant!

Blood pressure is usually between 100-115 over 60-70.

ETA: Blood pressure was 95/54 this morning after breakfast

I'm eating pretty low carb & pretty clean. Decided to do whole 30 at beginning of August & found my fasting blood glucose has stabilised after being diagnosed diabetic for about 8 years.

So, I need the dairy to go & stay gone!

I've read the threads on hypotension & fat intake hasn't changed, I've had bacon in case it was salt, but still hypotensive. So, had a cup of tea with milk (yack! It's not that nice!) and my BP has gone up to 113/65.

If it is milk/dairy, then what is the likely mechanism? Micronutrients?

Edit: I am having dizzy spells, fatigue & faintness which is why I started taking my BP - orthostatic hypotension on AM was initially there gong low carb, but had normalised.

I have an appointment with my GP on Thursday, so not looking for a diagnosis, just possible mechanisms :-)

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 17, 2011
at 12:03 AM

If you start at 50 and take away the milk, that is VLC, which can cause low blood pressure. Hope you find the answer.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 08:28 PM

Thanks Rose :-) Must've cross posted!

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 08:27 PM

Thanks for this. I have been mainly dairy free apart from a bit of goats milk which my son seems to be able to tolerate, I don't really like diary unless it's in tea it seems (I hate the aftertaste). I eat olives, but haven't recently and have some homemade sauerkraut in the fridge too. Potassium seems to be abundant in lots of foods, so perhaps I need to concentrate on the sodium side...

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 08:18 PM

I know Annie, but even with my milk intake (which I know was an addiction) I was still averaging about 50-100g carbs, if that.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on August 16, 2011
at 07:33 PM

Good call mem. Definitely something to look into.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on August 16, 2011
at 07:33 PM

I'm so glad they finally lowered it. That 120/80 is just dumb. I used to feel bad with my low readings and sometimes docs would comment about my low blood pressure but now they can't say anything.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on August 16, 2011
at 06:50 PM

Wrote a respone below, but I think what "dairy" has meant in your daily diet is a key factor here. Cheese? Milk? Cream? What other products and how much. As I wrote in my response, sodium in a slice of cheese alone =340mg. Glass of milk ~ 130sodium, 410 potassium. Cutting "dairy" can mean a big diff in sodium and potassium intake alone. And then there is volume, as discussed...caff intake and lack of it...

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 16, 2011
at 04:24 PM

Melissa, funny - when I lived in Japan I was amused at differences there, too. Body temps, blood pressure, heart rate, etc.

3f5bbb444498a24f1a9720d75fa7c903

(2369)

on August 16, 2011
at 03:42 PM

Ahh, different response if you are having symptoms. I don't do well if I eat pristine low-carb paleo. I rarely go over 100-120g of carbs per day (when I count) but I usually approach that and function better. No weight gain and every thing else feels right, so I think this is right for me. YMMV.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 16, 2011
at 03:25 PM

yeah I had a doctor tell me that my blood pressure was way too low, but another doctor (from an Asian country) tell me it was great...I find that eating more calories keeps it from being an issue

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 03:11 PM

I think my tea with milk addiction could be a major issue here from everyone's feedback!

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 03:09 PM

Dietary, milk & bacon - blood glucose improved on elimination of milk. I've been caffeine free for some time prior to this. But like I've said, I had this in the past on AM, but it went away. IFing very irregularly pre-milk elimination no different. I've been low carb on & off (moderate low carb I'd say) for about 9-12 months.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 16, 2011
at 03:04 PM

Ah; that is different, then. I'm glad you're going to see your GP. It may be just a timing issue--you've been LC/Whole30 long enough to see a change, and it coincides with dropping the milk. Or you could have been drinking enough milk to keep you in the moderate to high carb range, thus not dropping BP. Or, could be something unrelated. Congrats on stabilized BG, though! And please update us after your med appt.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:42 PM

Milk has sugar/carbs.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:41 PM

Well, with symptoms that you have edited in it changes the context of a lot of these answers. How long have you been low carb and what other changes have you made I would wonder?

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:33 PM

And yes, I think milk might be a BIG stressor to me - plateaux seems to have ceased now.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:33 PM

Edited my q to include my symptoms.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:32 PM

I hope it's my new norm and the symptoms subside. Glad you feel great toon:-)

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:31 PM

I initially had this & it went away, perhaps milk has had more of an impact.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:31 PM

Yes, later in day it's just as low with symptoms.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:30 PM

Oops, edit looks like it's in a funny place. On iPad, so I'm gonna leave it...

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5 Answers

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4
Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on August 16, 2011
at 03:50 PM

Level of fluid/water intake? Look at adquate sodium, which on lc is crucial.

From Michael Eades post:

Aside from the occasional carb cravings, which we???ll deal with later, the most common symptoms experienced by those getting started on low-carb diets are fatigue, headaches, light-headedness or dizziness, and cramping. I would say these four symptoms probably comprise 98 percent of the complaints we get from our patients we put on low-carb diets. Not everyone experiences these symptoms ??? especially those who do what we tell them ??? but of those who do have symptoms, these are almost always the ones they have. Let???s look at what to do to avoid them or treat them should you already be experiencing on or more.

Electrolytes The most common cause of virtually all the symptoms listed above is an imbalance in electrolytes. Following a low-carb diet results in a rapid lowering of insulin levels, which ??? though a good thing ??? can create problems in the early days. We???ll address the electrolytes in the order of importance.

Sodium When you are overweight and insulin resistant, you have a lot of insulin circulating in your blood most of the time. This excess insulin does a number of bad things to you. Gary Taubes wrote an entire book about how excess insulin makes you store fat in your fat cells. But the story doesn???t end there. Excess insulin also drives the kidneys to retain fluid, which is why many obese people retain a lot of extraneous fluid and experience pitting edema in their lower legs.

What is pitting edema?

If you push your finger into the tissue in the front (or just to the side of) your shin bone and your finger leaves an indentation ??? almost a finger print ??? that takes a while to fill back in, you have pitting edema. Most overweight people experience this phenomenon late in the afternoon and/or at night after being on their feet all day. The excess fluid pools around the lower legs and seeps into the soft tissues. In the morning, after the body has been horizontal through the night, the fluid redistributes, and the pitting edema goes away but then reoccurs as the day goes on. Even people who aren???t all that overweight but who do have elevated insulin levels will have some degree of excess fluid accumulation even if they don???t experience pitting edema as evidence of it.

One of the first things that happens when people go on low-carb diets is a rapid improvement in insulin sensitivity. Because the low-carb diet starts to quickly banish the insulin resistance, insulin levels fall quickly. And as insulin falls, the stimulus to the kidneys to retain fluids goes away, and the kidneys begin to rapidly release fluid. One of the common experiences at the start of low-carb dieting is the incessant running back and forth to the bathroom to urinate this excess fluid away. Which is both good news and bad news.

The good news is that it???s great to get rid of the excess fluid but it comes at a cost, which is the bad news. As the excess fluid goes, it takes with it sodium an extremely important electrolyte. When sodium levels fall below a critical threshold (which can happen within a short time), symptoms often occur, the most common being fatigue, headache, cramps and postural hypotension.

Postural hypotension happens when you stand up too quickly and feel faint. Or even pass out briefly. It???s a sign of dehydration. So if you???ve started your low-carb diet, made your multiple runs to the bathroom, and jump up off the couch to answer the phone and feel like your going to faint (or actually do pass out momentarily) and have to sit back down quickly, you???ve got postural hypotension. It???s really easy to fix ??? you simply need to take more sodium and drink more water. Salt your food more. Increasing sodium is just another one of the many counter-intuitive things about low-carb dieting. Just like eating more fat to lower your cholesterol. You???ve got to start thinking differently. The low-carb diet is one that absolutely requires more sodium. A lot more sodium.

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/saturated-fat/tips-tricks-for-starting-or-restarting-low-carb-pt-ii/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+drmikenutritionblog+%28The+Blog+of+Michael+R.+Eades%2C+M.D.%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

He was on a vacation trip when he wrote this, so ignore some of the stuff that was srot of tongue in cheek about sangria, etc. The info above is what applies to your situation.

Hydration and sodium really are crucial with lc, and more crucial the lower "low carb" is for you.

Not unusual for a single slice of higher quality processed cheese to have 340mg sodium!!!!

So, where is your sodium replacement coming from? And volume matters, ie., hydration.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on August 16, 2011
at 07:33 PM

Good call mem. Definitely something to look into.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 08:27 PM

Thanks for this. I have been mainly dairy free apart from a bit of goats milk which my son seems to be able to tolerate, I don't really like diary unless it's in tea it seems (I hate the aftertaste). I eat olives, but haven't recently and have some homemade sauerkraut in the fridge too. Potassium seems to be abundant in lots of foods, so perhaps I need to concentrate on the sodium side...

3
3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:04 PM

I'm not sure I understand the problem. Do you feel bad? Lightheaded, or anything? The last four years my BP is usually in the 90s/60s range, down from 100s/70s, pre-LC. It's well-known that LC lowers BP, but that's usually considered a feature, not a bug.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 16, 2011
at 03:04 PM

Ah; that is different, then. I'm glad you're going to see your GP. It may be just a timing issue--you've been LC/Whole30 long enough to see a change, and it coincides with dropping the milk. Or you could have been drinking enough milk to keep you in the moderate to high carb range, thus not dropping BP. Or, could be something unrelated. Congrats on stabilized BG, though! And please update us after your med appt.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 16, 2011
at 03:25 PM

yeah I had a doctor tell me that my blood pressure was way too low, but another doctor (from an Asian country) tell me it was great...I find that eating more calories keeps it from being an issue

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 16, 2011
at 04:24 PM

Melissa, funny - when I lived in Japan I was amused at differences there, too. Body temps, blood pressure, heart rate, etc.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:33 PM

Edited my q to include my symptoms.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 03:11 PM

I think my tea with milk addiction could be a major issue here from everyone's feedback!

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 08:28 PM

Thanks Rose :-) Must've cross posted!

3
3f5bbb444498a24f1a9720d75fa7c903

on August 16, 2011
at 02:02 PM

My BP for years ran the textbook 120/80 or close to it. Since going even moderately paleo, it has stayed anywhere from 90/60 to 110/75. I feel great (52 yrs old). Remember that "textbook BP" is based on the average BP of patients, most of whom were sick or ravaged by SAD to begin with. Perhaps your lower BP is just your new norm? Do you have any symptoms of low BP? If not, I wouldn't worry about it.

3f5bbb444498a24f1a9720d75fa7c903

(2369)

on August 16, 2011
at 03:42 PM

Ahh, different response if you are having symptoms. I don't do well if I eat pristine low-carb paleo. I rarely go over 100-120g of carbs per day (when I count) but I usually approach that and function better. No weight gain and every thing else feels right, so I think this is right for me. YMMV.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:32 PM

I hope it's my new norm and the symptoms subside. Glad you feel great toon:-)

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on August 16, 2011
at 07:33 PM

I'm so glad they finally lowered it. That 120/80 is just dumb. I used to feel bad with my low readings and sometimes docs would comment about my low blood pressure but now they can't say anything.

0
6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 16, 2011
at 01:59 PM

Salt is good, but you should also monitor your carb intake. Low-carb is the likely cause.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 08:18 PM

I know Annie, but even with my milk intake (which I know was an addiction) I was still averaging about 50-100g carbs, if that.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 17, 2011
at 12:03 AM

If you start at 50 and take away the milk, that is VLC, which can cause low blood pressure. Hope you find the answer.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:42 PM

Milk has sugar/carbs.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:31 PM

I initially had this & it went away, perhaps milk has had more of an impact.

0
3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 16, 2011
at 01:42 PM

BP rises as the day goes on...have you normally been checking it later in the day, and now are comparing it to a morning reading.

Are you having symptoms of faintness or fatigue?

If you feel fine you could just naturally run this low (my wife does) without and negative effect. Removing certain stressors can reduce BP, perhaps milk is just such a stress for your system.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:31 PM

Yes, later in day it's just as low with symptoms.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:33 PM

And yes, I think milk might be a BIG stressor to me - plateaux seems to have ceased now.

C4134ed417dbc0a6b79ab2cee32632d3

(1811)

on August 16, 2011
at 03:09 PM

Dietary, milk & bacon - blood glucose improved on elimination of milk. I've been caffeine free for some time prior to this. But like I've said, I had this in the past on AM, but it went away. IFing very irregularly pre-milk elimination no different. I've been low carb on & off (moderate low carb I'd say) for about 9-12 months.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 16, 2011
at 02:41 PM

Well, with symptoms that you have edited in it changes the context of a lot of these answers. How long have you been low carb and what other changes have you made I would wonder?

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