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What does pasteurization and homogenization do to the milk that is bad?

Commented on October 15, 2013
Created October 12, 2013 at 4:45 AM

What does pasteurization and homogenization do to the milk that is bad?

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on October 15, 2013
at 01:31 AM

@VB i think i saw a comment from you that read "Calcium is absorbed differently from raw milk" (tho i cannot find that comment now?), This is of interest to me, do you have a ref link or links i can read on this. thx

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 14, 2013
at 11:57 PM

The days of the dairymen smoking cigarettes while they milked the cows are gone, but I remember them. My grandma grew up on a small dairy farm, and what I remember was wet mud and cows. This was a step up from the pre-pasteurization days though. I can only imagine how filthy dairy farms were 100 years ago.

59b1fb3c808957039f9ddf6fb341c05c

on October 14, 2013
at 11:29 PM

Im not saying it doesn't happen, and in relation to where my country is situated, then yes, im sure it is in a far away land that it happens, as N.Z is pretty far away from everywhere. All I was stating is that our cows are treated like gold, I guess that's why our dairy products are some of the best in the world.

59b1fb3c808957039f9ddf6fb341c05c

on October 14, 2013
at 11:05 PM

Gee, very sorry to live in a country that treat our animals well...

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 14, 2013
at 11:50 AM

The actual studies the articles reference will be much more muted for the linkage of dairy and osteoporosis. Let's see 'em, VB.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 14, 2013
at 11:48 AM

Handling is a bit different now than then. Mechanization has taken over, no milk is drink is hand-harvested, everything is vacuum-pumped. So unless you are scrupulous in teat cleanliness, you'll end up with dirt, manure and microbes in your product. Of course, milking by hand into a bucket, means you've got an open vat of milk in a barn, that may be just as unsanitary! Farming practices have changed, and not always for the better, but in many ways, things are much better than they used to be.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 14, 2013
at 11:42 AM

Interesting. They propose that nanobacteria are feeding off of calcium and phosphorus in milk, except calcium and phosphorus exist in a multitude of other foods as well. I'd love to see the actual science supporting the idea that dairy causes cell death in osteoblasts (bone building cells), because that would more definitively link dairy with osteoporosis. In all, it's yet another epidemological study proposing a hypothesis, it is not a 'proof'.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 14, 2013
at 11:35 AM

Exactly, other things correlate with pasteurized dairy, just as osteoporosis does.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 14, 2013
at 05:34 AM

Calcium is absorbed differently from raw milk.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on October 14, 2013
at 05:05 AM

...reminds me of this post by Christopher Masterjohn, a vitamins and minerals balancing act

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on October 14, 2013
at 04:32 AM

And if you do increase Vit D, you should probably balance with an increase in Vit A as well.

...reminds me of this post by Christopher Masterjohn, a vitamins and minerals balancing act

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on October 14, 2013
at 04:25 AM

so what i get from those articles you linked VB, is that if you are getting a lot (excessive amount?) of calcium (whatever the source) make sure you get an appropriate amount of co-vitamins such as Vitamin K & Vitamin D. ie. if you increase Calcium intake, also increase intake of Vits K & D. I have over simplified, but sounds about right to me?

I guess it gets a bit more complex when you start looking at the various types/forms of Vit K & Vit D (& other 'co-vitamins')

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on October 14, 2013
at 04:17 AM

While the first article (source?) condemns milk, the Harvad article is much less conclusive.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 14, 2013
at 04:03 AM

@Mr. Nada I provided the link in my response to Matt. You don't have to believe Harvard medicine, you can believe Matt, if it feels better :)

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 14, 2013
at 04:01 AM

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on October 14, 2013
at 03:59 AM

The fact that pasteurized dairy vs raw dairy or no dairy correlate with higher % of osteoporosis might be due to other influences (Matt 11's comment 'Confounding variables')

Perhaps more modern societies that use pasteurized dairy have other behaviors that promote osteoporosis? Sedentary lifestyle, other dietary? Lack of weight bearing demands?

I've looked for research that proves or indicates pastrueaized milk is a problem but have found none.

2eb1b3e896624be5506029e3fec3e9e2

(10)

on October 14, 2013
at 12:32 AM

"if i am misleading people, show me a burden of proof that I am wrong..." that's not how it works sensei. your link did not prove anything. the burden is on you to make your point

2eb1b3e896624be5506029e3fec3e9e2

(10)

on October 14, 2013
at 12:29 AM

defenitely confounding variables. i thought paleotards knew better than to confuse association with causation?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 14, 2013
at 12:18 AM

Genetics. Confounding variables.

Cd6ffaf8c6b1ad60e9c9b3ae450d4984

on October 13, 2013
at 08:08 PM

Many cultures have eaten raw meat as a staple in their diet. Inuit/eskimos. Western prairie tribes would often eat pieces of buffalo raw immediately after the kill. There may be even a conflict of definition in the term 'raw' as much of the meat was simply dried or smoked, thus not reaching a temperature that would agree with the term 'cooked.' Just a good bit of information I thought you would find interesting.

Cd6ffaf8c6b1ad60e9c9b3ae450d4984

on October 13, 2013
at 08:01 PM

I used a blanket term for heat treating. Sorry. Yet it is 161 degrees F for everyone's information. I admittedly used a context for waters boiling point that is in fact not milks boiling point. Yet it hardly makes a difference in the point I was making. Now, could someone please show me so evidence? This will be the third time I have asked and I have provided my resources already. As I said, if I am misleading people, show me a burden of proof that I am wrong and I will be happy to change my position. My goal is health, not pride. Hopefully, we are on the same page there at least.

Medium avatar

(238)

on October 13, 2013
at 06:36 PM

His first sentence was completely wrong. They don't boil milk to pasteurize. So how can you say that what he wrote is true?

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on October 13, 2013
at 05:58 PM

Agree with VB. If osteoporosis is high where there is high consumption of CAFO pasteurized milk, the causal chain is broken. Milk, it does a body nothing (at best, unless it is grass fed and raw).

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 13, 2013
at 04:51 PM

What you wrote is true. People who are downvoting your post have very little knowledge and a huge ego.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 13, 2013
at 04:50 PM

Matt, how do you explain the fact that there are way more osteoporosis cases among people who use pasteurized dairy and practically none where they don't use dairy or use it raw? Examples - Asia, Europe. Would you be so kind to explain?

Cd6ffaf8c6b1ad60e9c9b3ae450d4984

on October 13, 2013
at 04:13 PM

k. Show me the right things.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 13, 2013
at 03:14 PM

"From what I have read I would hazard that it is not good for you???" Then you're reading the wrong things.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 13, 2013
at 03:12 PM

I learned to drink UHT when I lived in Europe because I was a milk addict back then, took weeks of force feeding it to get used to it.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 13, 2013
at 01:09 PM

Cows were more sanitary 150 years ago than they are now? Food preservation is what eliminated the epidemics not better cow culture.

Cd6ffaf8c6b1ad60e9c9b3ae450d4984

on October 13, 2013
at 06:43 AM

I guess I am just waiting for the science or proof telling me how it is misleading. I would love to be proven wrong. However, no one yet seems to want to meet their own standard of providing evidence. From what I have read I would hazard that it is not good for you, not that I even advocate dairy in the first place, but if you must, go natural. Now please show me evidence on the contrary so I don't mislead people as you and others have suggested. Thank you.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 13, 2013
at 05:57 AM

If you have an unsanitary farm (like the largest dairy farm in NY), I would think you would really have to go pasteurized to keep it drinkable. (These were cows that stood in their own feces long enough for sores to develop and bacteria to enter their blood without farmers noticing or caring.) In modern times, we could have the genetics of every organism listed on the back of the raw milk bottle if we wanted, but we would have to start optimizing for nutrition and animal wellness instead of cost. Whether the cost for that milk is worth it, is another debate. (It's probably not.)

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 13, 2013
at 05:29 AM

Milk is a good medium for bacteria. Before modern refrigeration and rapid shipping to market were developed tuberculosis and brucellosis were often contracted from drinking infected milk. Pasteurization is not a prop for unsanitary farms. It's a technique to control epidemics.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 13, 2013
at 05:07 AM

UHT....the bane of Europe....ecch. I scald my milk before mixing in yogurt culture, to kill any competing cultures. The lactobacilli thrive on it, and I thrive on the yogurt they make.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 13, 2013
at 02:39 AM

Very few cows in the US are treated with rBHT - maybe 15%. Most fluid milk in the states is from cows untreated with rBHT.

I agree that pasteurization has, in the past, been used to cover up poor sanitation and handling, but there's really nothing wrong with it.

B885dc10c6263f5a4492205d50560bee

(401)

on October 13, 2013
at 02:10 AM

People are downvoting because these claims are greatly exaggerated, misleading, and/or not backed up by fact. WAP got a lot of things right, but the "science" in the linked article is anything but.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 13, 2013
at 01:41 AM

You sound as if this exists in some far away land.. some place where you don't even know cows live. I believe this place is called.. the first world. It really is an issue for a lot of poor cows where people choose to deny that it even goes on.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on October 13, 2013
at 01:01 AM

the latest market trend in Australia (which does not allow raw milk) is to go permeate free. Milk processors do not need to declare if permeate has been added to their milk (adding permeate is sometimes deemed as 'watering' down the milk & making it more profitable).

Some milk processors have now stopped adding milk permeate. & i am seeing more & more milks in the shops with 'permeate free' labelling.

59b1fb3c808957039f9ddf6fb341c05c

on October 13, 2013
at 12:48 AM

Wow, don't know where the cows live that you are talking about, because where I live in N.Z, our cows are treated like gold.

Cd6ffaf8c6b1ad60e9c9b3ae450d4984

on October 13, 2013
at 12:23 AM

That's okay. Thank you!

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 12, 2013
at 11:18 PM

Haha, just saying that I see some pretty clear evidence that pasteurizing milk does indeed result in significantly reduced vitamin levels and reduced nutrient absorption. It transforms from being something you could feed to your little buddy and keep its fur nice to one that messes it up. Granted, you should feed it other nutrients and those here would eat other nutrients.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 12, 2013
at 10:43 PM

Not science, just a basic understanding of dairying. I grew up dairying, drinking raw milk, but don't think there's anything magic about it.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 12, 2013
at 10:41 PM

Don't think anybody here is a lab rat being fed nothing but milk. ;)

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 12, 2013
at 10:37 PM

Pasteurization may deactivate enzymes, but you'd have to suggest that these enzymes are useful in humans. Pasteurization (any heat-treatment) does reduce vitamin C content, but then milk is not a significant source of vitamin C, even raw. Pretty obvious that the calcium in milk has positive effects on bone health, so Sally Fallon is likely wrong on that front too.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 12, 2013
at 09:59 PM

I have no idea why people are downvoting you. They must be crazy. Thanks for your info!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 12, 2013
at 09:57 PM

Pasteurization kills off the enzymes and the vitamin C in milk. According to Sally Fallon, it makes calcium in milk indigestible.

B885dc10c6263f5a4492205d50560bee

(401)

on October 12, 2013
at 09:13 PM

Behold, real science!!

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 12, 2013
at 08:08 PM

In the Randleigh Farm studies carried out between 1935 and 1940, rats were fed either pasteurized or unpasteurized milk alone. The rats fed pasteurized milk exhibited poor development and acrodynia compared to the rats that were fed raw milk and grew normally with healthy coats.

http://www.realmilk.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Randleigh.pdf

Acrodynia is a pellagra-like skin disorder that causes hair loss in rats when their diets are deficient in B.

http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html#enzymes

Medium avatar

(15)

on October 12, 2013
at 06:56 PM

False and exaggerated claims, pasteurized homogenized milk is both safe and healthy. Raw milk may be a bit more nutritious but that doesn't mean that pasteurized milk is bad.

2eb1b3e896624be5506029e3fec3e9e2

(10)

on October 12, 2013
at 06:08 PM

plz show citations for the homogenization claim

Medium avatar

(238)

on October 12, 2013
at 06:05 PM

1. Pasteurization is not boiling

2. Any links or proof of your assertions re neg response to body

3. for the record I'm anti milk although will eat small amounts of aged cheese. I would never drink raw milk, just like I won't eat raw beef.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 12, 2013
at 05:25 AM

http://chriskresser.com/raw-milk-reality-benefits-of-raw-milk Basically the heat just destroys / oxidizes some of the things that you might want in your milk, and you typically need a cleaner farm and healthier animals to make a good raw milk. When the processed version of something appears to be less nutritious, it makes Paleo sense to go with the raw version instead. It's a fresher / tastier milk too (and better for making cheese.)

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5 Answers

0
194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on October 13, 2013
at 12:14 AM

It's not so much that pasteurization and homogenization is bad (they are)--but the bigger problem is that these processes cover up a dairy industry that is producing low-quality milk. Because of these inventions, dairy "farmers" can afford to raise their cattle in terrible, unsanitary and unhealthful conditions, because the milk is going to be de-bacterialized and processed into a homogenous product anyway. They can be as unsanitary as they want because it's all going to be zapped anyway. They can treat their cows like shit and they can inject them with hormones that make them produce unnatural amounts of milk... much of which will be weird and watery or thick and gross or whatever. The homogenization covers this up.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 13, 2013
at 02:39 AM

Very few cows in the US are treated with rBHT - maybe 15%. Most fluid milk in the states is from cows untreated with rBHT.

I agree that pasteurization has, in the past, been used to cover up poor sanitation and handling, but there's really nothing wrong with it.

59b1fb3c808957039f9ddf6fb341c05c

on October 13, 2013
at 12:48 AM

Wow, don't know where the cows live that you are talking about, because where I live in N.Z, our cows are treated like gold.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 13, 2013
at 05:29 AM

Milk is a good medium for bacteria. Before modern refrigeration and rapid shipping to market were developed tuberculosis and brucellosis were often contracted from drinking infected milk. Pasteurization is not a prop for unsanitary farms. It's a technique to control epidemics.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 13, 2013
at 01:09 PM

Cows were more sanitary 150 years ago than they are now? Food preservation is what eliminated the epidemics not better cow culture.

0
56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on October 12, 2013
at 10:44 PM

I spent a year in France (where I was working) drinking raw milk. A path from my house, located within a farm, led to a barn where I could show up and get milk. With my roommates, we would get 14 liters (3.7 gallons for 14 days. The cows were fed only hay, and we would take it from the main vat, still warm, with a ladle. We reused the same bottles over and over. It was the best milk, not allergenic IME, and I can not drink supermarket milk, and lasted the full two weeks without deterioration (a cream cap would rapidly form at the top of the bottle). To me it is clear that raw milk has health properties that pasteurized does not have. Not sure homogenization does anything bad to the milk, though.

0
2eb1b3e896624be5506029e3fec3e9e2

on October 12, 2013
at 07:07 PM

idk about homogenization, but if cooking meat is okay, then by extension pasteurizing milk should not result in significantly reduced vitamin levels

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 12, 2013
at 08:08 PM

In the Randleigh Farm studies carried out between 1935 and 1940, rats were fed either pasteurized or unpasteurized milk alone. The rats fed pasteurized milk exhibited poor development and acrodynia compared to the rats that were fed raw milk and grew normally with healthy coats.

http://www.realmilk.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Randleigh.pdf

Acrodynia is a pellagra-like skin disorder that causes hair loss in rats when their diets are deficient in B.

http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html#enzymes

0
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 12, 2013
at 06:54 PM

Pasteurization is the process of heating milk to destroy pathogenic microbes. There are different types of pasteurization: low temperature-long time, high temperature-short time, and ultra-high temperature. Pasteurization effectiveness is dependent on temperature and time. Low temperature-long time is a method where the milk is heated to a moderate temperature for an extended period of time. This can kill most pathogens and leave the milk largely uncooked. Standard high temperature-short time accomplishes the same thing, except the milk is "cooked" a bit more. Ultra-high temperature pasteurization is essentially sterilization. It heats milk above the boiling point and effectively makes it shelf-stable. It is definitely cooked and has a less than fresh taste. Does pasteurization "do" anything to the milk itself? Not really. Some claim that it makes it more allergenic, I don't think that's well established.

Homogenization is the process of breaking up fat globules in the milk so that they do not naturally separate over time. It is a mechanical and thermal process. Again, there's not much out there saying it's bad. The fat globules are held together with proteins and it's thought that when you break these apart there are freed up, but no different than when digested really.

In all, the raw milk movement is based on a lot of 'woo', not saying to not try raw dairy, but it's hardly the miracle that some make it out to be.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 12, 2013
at 09:57 PM

Pasteurization kills off the enzymes and the vitamin C in milk. According to Sally Fallon, it makes calcium in milk indigestible.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 13, 2013
at 05:07 AM

UHT....the bane of Europe....ecch. I scald my milk before mixing in yogurt culture, to kill any competing cultures. The lactobacilli thrive on it, and I thrive on the yogurt they make.

B885dc10c6263f5a4492205d50560bee

(401)

on October 12, 2013
at 09:13 PM

Behold, real science!!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 13, 2013
at 04:50 PM

Matt, how do you explain the fact that there are way more osteoporosis cases among people who use pasteurized dairy and practically none where they don't use dairy or use it raw? Examples - Asia, Europe. Would you be so kind to explain?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 14, 2013
at 04:01 AM

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on October 13, 2013
at 05:58 PM

Agree with VB. If osteoporosis is high where there is high consumption of CAFO pasteurized milk, the causal chain is broken. Milk, it does a body nothing (at best, unless it is grass fed and raw).

0
Cd6ffaf8c6b1ad60e9c9b3ae450d4984

on October 12, 2013
at 05:44 PM

Pasteurization is the process of boiling milk to kill bacteria. However, much of this bacteria is good for the gut and in the process many of the beneficial enzymes and proteins are destroyed, or worse yet, altered in a way that produces negative health responses to your body.

Homogenization is the process of breaking the fat cells into very small molecules. This is dangerous to you because the altered proteins can now bypass normal digestion right into the blood stream where they are destructive to the arterial wall promoting an inflammatory response. These stray tiny proteins can also trigger autoimmune diseases. Yikes!

Basically, you aren't drinking milk any more. If you must drink it, drink it raw. When I want milk I drink it raw and have done so for many years. I have never once gotten sick and found it to be a great supplementation for those wanting to build lean muscle. Plus it just tastes so damn good. : )

Don't be putting it on cereal though! @Hungry

Adam Chevalier

Here is some more info.

Medium avatar

(238)

on October 12, 2013
at 06:05 PM

1. Pasteurization is not boiling

2. Any links or proof of your assertions re neg response to body

3. for the record I'm anti milk although will eat small amounts of aged cheese. I would never drink raw milk, just like I won't eat raw beef.

2eb1b3e896624be5506029e3fec3e9e2

(10)

on October 12, 2013
at 06:08 PM

plz show citations for the homogenization claim

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 13, 2013
at 04:51 PM

What you wrote is true. People who are downvoting your post have very little knowledge and a huge ego.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on October 12, 2013
at 09:59 PM

I have no idea why people are downvoting you. They must be crazy. Thanks for your info!

Medium avatar

(15)

on October 12, 2013
at 06:56 PM

False and exaggerated claims, pasteurized homogenized milk is both safe and healthy. Raw milk may be a bit more nutritious but that doesn't mean that pasteurized milk is bad.

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