0

votes

3000kcal on very strict Paleo

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created September 29, 2012 at 3:36 AM

Ok so first of all, I have searched this board as well as others and haven't found too much information that fits my health issues. I am a 21 year old, 6' male, about 172lbs and looking to gain muscle (and lose bf). I really don't know my bf% although I think around 17% (if a scale that measures bf is worth anything). Anyway, I am doing HIIT once a week, and bodyweight exercises three times a week. Looking to get about 3000 calories a day has been difficult and I often don't even get 2000. I eat a lot of chicken breast (probably switch to thighs with skin), lean beef (grass fed when I can) with a lot of olive oil/coconut oil and veggies. Unfortunately due to severe migraines daily, I have taken steps to cut out foods that I am apparently sensitive to.

Things I avoid due to health (Migraines, digestion, etc.): Eggs (may reintroduce the yolk and see what happens), Dairy (killed my stomach the next day after I ate a single slice of cheese), Fruits (as well as avocados), and Nuts (especially nut butters, although I may add back in to see)

I use a lot of olive oil/coconut oil to cook and top my veggies with. Any suggestions on what I can add that is calorie dense and ok health wise for me? I might try to create my own coconut milk and just throw a bunch of coconut oil in? Also may try pastured butter and see if I can tolerate it. Thanks for taking the time to read this!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 29, 2012
at 03:59 AM

I have to say I agree with Amy. 3-6 ratio isn't unimportant but I don't see it as a big deal as long as your aren't pounding huge amounts of nuts, seeds, or nut oils. Also, you are young and relatively lean, no reason to be super low-carb. Starches and fruit post-workout and low-carb on non-workout days would work really well. Also, something like Lean Gains.

03b1e8bcfc39b7f3c75e8ab57b64f1d5

(0)

on September 29, 2012
at 03:53 AM

Thanks Amy! I did wonder as to how seriously to take the n-3/n-6 ratio. Might just try and mix conventional and grass fed for different meals if I can work it out but won't worry about it a lot. I appreciate the advice from you guys

03b1e8bcfc39b7f3c75e8ab57b64f1d5

(0)

on September 29, 2012
at 03:51 AM

Thanks Amy! I'm still new to Paleo so all tips are very helpful.

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on September 29, 2012
at 03:50 AM

I wouldn't worry too much about the n-3/n-6 from conventional meat. After all, ultimately we're still talking about meat, and not, say, cottonseed oil, know what I mean? You're right to acknowledge the issue, but I wouldn't sweat it too much.

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on September 29, 2012
at 03:48 AM

+1 for fatty meats. No need for chicken breasts & lean ground beef. If you're looking to add calories, don't worry about meat being lean. At 6' and 172, you could probably also do okay with starchy tubers and still see decent results in terms of body fat. Mashed sweet potatoes w/butter or coconut oil would be an easy way to get a lot of calories.

03b1e8bcfc39b7f3c75e8ab57b64f1d5

(0)

on September 29, 2012
at 03:48 AM

Thing is, I need to add a lot of calories (usually 1500 more a day from my logs). Is it ok to get the bulk of calories from oils/plants? And I'm going to start eating more chicken thighs and try to get some higher fat ground beef (it just wouldn't be grass fed so I know the Omega 3/6 ratio and all that would be off). Thanks for the suggestions, just not wanting to get my macro ratios very off either and be sure I exhausted my options so I don't get sick of the same stuff.

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on September 29, 2012
at 03:48 AM

+1 for fatty meats. No need for chicken breasts & lean ground beef. If you're looking to add calories, don't worry about meat being lean. At 6' and 172, you could probably also do okay with starchy tubers and still see decent results in terms of body fat. Mashed sweet potatoes w/butter or coconut oil would be an easy way to get a lot or calories.

  • 03b1e8bcfc39b7f3c75e8ab57b64f1d5

    asked by

    (0)
  • Views
    2.2K
  • Last Activity
    1257D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

10 Answers

3
D41bd7b3d3b962eb0146f471eb632f56

on November 18, 2012
at 04:59 PM

The first thing that sticks out is the lean meat. No reason to go lean if its grass-fed. Minor reason to go lean if it's not (fatty acid ratios that are minimal to begin with). Cuts closer to the bone are often cheaper. Going with bone-in roasts brings in more fat as well as the nutrients from bones and marrow (collagen, gelatin, etc).

1
Adb249ff0b1447d86ed308d0265e2b86

on September 29, 2012
at 10:45 PM

HIIT or HIT? If you want to gain muscle it's the latter you want. Also body weight exercises don't build much muscle unless we're talking chins and dips. The academic research on hypertrophy says you need, per body part i.e. split-routines, 60-90 repetitions with weights every 5 or 6 days. That's 2-3 exercises per body part for 3 work sets of around 10 repetitions (or similar variants thereof). We're talking <1 hour, 3 or 4 days a week here if you want maximum results. Less can still work.

What exactly is strict Paleo, the Atkins diet? Paleo certainly doesn't mean starch-free or low-starch to everybody. The Kitavans follow a 99%+ paleolithic pre-modern diet and they are eating a lot of starch basically all from tubers.

So I am a 48-year-old 6' 1 male with similar goals and my daily calorific target is a bit over 3000 kcals. This is the plan in brief:

Eat six times a day, every three hours, e.g. 9am through to midnight. Four meals of 750 kcals each if you wish.

Try 20% / 150 g from protein and experiment with how you're going to split the remaining 2,400 calories between fat and protein. Between 35% carbs - 45% fat and 45% carbs - 35% fat. Make an Excel sheet for the day's meals and their calorific and macronutrient breakdowns.

The basic cheap meal can be i) full-fat lamb mince or beef mince, you can fry it in its own fats ii) with safe starches such as white rice, potatoes or sweet potatoes iii) add in extra pasteured butter, coconut oil, olive oil, whatever you prefer iv) vegetables to taste but health wise you "need" about 5 x 80 g servings a day and sweet potatoes can count as vegetables.

All I can say is the fried mince, white rice, topped up with butter standard meal is going to be very tasty, and of a modest bulk so quite easy to swallow every few hours.

BTW, you obviously have to figure in your three servings of fatty salmon a week for the omega-3 fats, your short-chain fats, etc. it all can be planned out on Excel down to a tee. Of course you should vary it up and sometimes use white fish requiring more butter, coconut milk, thai curry powder and such like. Also, the polyunsaturated fat content for beef and lamb meat listed on the packets from the supermarket I use is remarkedly low so I don't worry about that.

Do you or anyone here know of any bodybuilding champs using low carb in their mass building phases, if so I'd appreciate the links. I'm not going to tell you the optimum carb intake for building muscle is synchronous with the perfect levels for insulin sensitivity. But there is a strong argument that it is never high carbs per see that cause T2 diabetes but the wrong type of carbs and I have plenty of documentation for that.

Wow, I feel hungry typing/ writing that. I'm off to the frying pan and my full-fat lamb mince with sweet potatoes and kerrygold!!

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 29, 2012
at 03:41 AM

Fatty meat? Roots and tubers? A bit of rice? Coconut milk?

03b1e8bcfc39b7f3c75e8ab57b64f1d5

(0)

on September 29, 2012
at 03:48 AM

Thing is, I need to add a lot of calories (usually 1500 more a day from my logs). Is it ok to get the bulk of calories from oils/plants? And I'm going to start eating more chicken thighs and try to get some higher fat ground beef (it just wouldn't be grass fed so I know the Omega 3/6 ratio and all that would be off). Thanks for the suggestions, just not wanting to get my macro ratios very off either and be sure I exhausted my options so I don't get sick of the same stuff.

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on September 29, 2012
at 03:50 AM

I wouldn't worry too much about the n-3/n-6 from conventional meat. After all, ultimately we're still talking about meat, and not, say, cottonseed oil, know what I mean? You're right to acknowledge the issue, but I wouldn't sweat it too much.

03b1e8bcfc39b7f3c75e8ab57b64f1d5

(0)

on September 29, 2012
at 03:53 AM

Thanks Amy! I did wonder as to how seriously to take the n-3/n-6 ratio. Might just try and mix conventional and grass fed for different meals if I can work it out but won't worry about it a lot. I appreciate the advice from you guys

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on September 29, 2012
at 03:48 AM

+1 for fatty meats. No need for chicken breasts & lean ground beef. If you're looking to add calories, don't worry about meat being lean. At 6' and 172, you could probably also do okay with starchy tubers and still see decent results in terms of body fat. Mashed sweet potatoes w/butter or coconut oil would be an easy way to get a lot of calories.

03b1e8bcfc39b7f3c75e8ab57b64f1d5

(0)

on September 29, 2012
at 03:51 AM

Thanks Amy! I'm still new to Paleo so all tips are very helpful.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 29, 2012
at 03:59 AM

I have to say I agree with Amy. 3-6 ratio isn't unimportant but I don't see it as a big deal as long as your aren't pounding huge amounts of nuts, seeds, or nut oils. Also, you are young and relatively lean, no reason to be super low-carb. Starches and fruit post-workout and low-carb on non-workout days would work really well. Also, something like Lean Gains.

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on September 29, 2012
at 03:48 AM

+1 for fatty meats. No need for chicken breasts & lean ground beef. If you're looking to add calories, don't worry about meat being lean. At 6' and 172, you could probably also do okay with starchy tubers and still see decent results in terms of body fat. Mashed sweet potatoes w/butter or coconut oil would be an easy way to get a lot or calories.

0
0b7c3e7fd96005f0b2dfd781e512fc2e

(1237)

on January 13, 2013
at 11:04 PM

One way to up your calories is to drink fat-laden beverages, like coffee/tea with butter and coconut oil. This isn't just a tool for those on a bulletproof protocol, you can also drink them as you normally would coffee and tea. Paleo hot chocolate made with cacao powder and coconut oil is another option.

Try adding more carbs to your meals, like sweet/white potatoes and starchy vegetables. It will give you energy for your workouts as well as provide more calories.

I don't get migraines myself but personally I've found that eliminating olive oil in favour of coconut oil has correlated with me feeling far less high-strung and less prone to minor headaches. I don't know if it's due to eliminating olive oil and I don't have any scientific evidence to support it, but maybe it's something you could experiment with.

0
32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on January 13, 2013
at 10:20 PM

-Have you tried pastured heavy whipping cream? Pour it over frozen blueberries. A lot of people who are dairy intolerant can eat the super heavy cream.

-Can you not tolerate coconut milk either? Paleo Comfort Foods has an awesome gravy recipe with coconut milk (and I used bacon grease as my fat) that I could eat poured on everything (I love it on kale).

-Buy grassfed beef tallow and spoon it into any ground meat you are cooking. Also great for cooking veggies. Or leftover bacon grease from high quality bacon.

0
Bc4845a7685fca7599533dbff0ce7c9f

on December 16, 2012
at 08:40 PM

Simple bro...Check out the almond banana smoothie on cakestopaleo.com or Juli's smoothies on Paleomg.com...

0
2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

on November 04, 2012
at 01:45 PM

One word- coconut butter! Same as coconut manna but I get it at my local Fresco ($1.49 for 1 lb- made by Grace). I can eat a whole one of those for a 1000 extra calories.

0
E2d885a66875eb01e931d369fac7353c

(427)

on September 29, 2012
at 11:42 PM

Try some almond butter. I aim for 3000-3500cal daily too, and almond butter helps me get there if I fear I'm coming up short. I'm M, 6', 165.

1 tablespoon = 95 calories, 8g fat, 3g carbs, 4g protein.

Good luck.

0
5daf265b82d5a5bbb48ef3ae0d9117ae

on September 29, 2012
at 02:34 PM

At your age I could have written your post. it is striking how similar we are. I wanted to get rid of my migraines and I can understand the lengths it can drive a person to, but be careful, if you go down the exclusion road it'll take you further than you want to go. Better to think "What food am I missing that prevents my migraines?"

For example, milk can worsen acne if your vitamin A is low. Low blood sugar or stressful events can cause a migraine, sugar is needed more in stressful events... etc

Whatever you try eating you need to give it a couple of weeks. The body needs to get used to different food, especially things like milk and eggs. When I started eating milk after a long break (8 years) it took a good couple of weeks for my body to be regular again, until then I was bloated and on and off the toilet.

Try watering down fruit juices if you have a sensitive stomach. It is quite easy to get an additional 500 calories from a 1L bottle of something like freshly squeezed pineapple juice, and it'll cost less than half of what meat would have cost you.

Milk is another fantastic product for bodybuilders. If you can't tolerate it, try goats milk. Work up slowly from a fraction of a cup a day to as much as you like. Keep it whole milk for even more calories. You'll get 700Kcal from 1L of whole milk, 3 cups of instant food.

With regards to adding butter to potatoes or starch - that doesn't work for me. I get indigestion from the combination. I can however eat butter with eggs or meats. It is best if the meat is lean as mixing different animal fats together seems to mess my system up.

-Also consider that it could be vegetables giving you stomach problems -Generally they will bloat and cause you to produce a lot of gas.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!