13

votes

[Meta] What's a "real" question?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 05, 2012 at 3:53 PM

I'm fairly new to PH, so I can't claim to understand everything that goes on, but I'm curious about the criteria used to determine what constitutes a valid question.

In the past ten days or so, for example, there have been three questions asked about Dr. Jack Kruse. Two of them addressed his "credibility", and they remain open. One question asked about people's experience with his recommended protocols (leptin reset and/or CT) which, all things considered, would seem to be at least as important as his credibility, and it's been closed as "not a real question".

So, I'm confused about what is or is not a "real" question.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on May 07, 2012
at 04:36 PM

It was not my job to just say that in the first place. It was your job to say: "I'm sorry, I think you misunderstood my question; let me rephrase it."

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 07, 2012
at 03:40 PM

WCC Paul wrote: "I can't tell you why five people -- none of whom are moderators -- voted to close a question about Jack Kruse." So why didn't you just say that in the first place? This thread has been like squeezing blood out of a stone. LOL.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 07, 2012
at 03:28 PM

Good idea! I'll do it. lol. ;)

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on May 07, 2012
at 09:35 AM

happen on Paleohacks in the old days, it really didn't. Now you know why we have to close and delete so many questions. There's the irony again.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on May 07, 2012
at 09:32 AM

This is actually unprecedented on Paleohacks. I have never been insulted in any way, probably because I strive always to conduct myself with kindness and impartiality. It's more than a little ironic that you are exhibiting the kind of contentiousness the procedures for the prevention of which I described in my answer. In fact this thread would probably have been deleted as unnecessarily contentious had I and another moderator not seen an opportunity to give answers we thought would be helpful to the community. This kind of thing did not [Continued]

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on May 07, 2012
at 09:26 AM

why five people -- none of whom are moderators -- voted to close a question about Jack Kruse. Probably because there were pre-existing threads on Jack Kruse that seemed identical (go search the tags "jack-kruse," "jack," and "dr-jack-kruse"). True, the reason given was "not a real question," but that -- **as I said in my answer** -- may not be an accurate reflection of their intentions.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on May 07, 2012
at 09:23 AM

Let me see if I have this straight, Warren D. After I misunderstand your question in a comment to my answer, you give my response an extremely uncharitable interpretation: that I am intentionally avoiding what I actually know to be your question. Then you post an brand new answer, just to complain about the answer that I put a *lot* of time into, an answer that addresses issues that have come up *many* times on this website -- and you suggest that my *entire* answer was constructed as a way of avoiding the "real" issue. I can't tell you [Continued]

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on May 06, 2012
at 06:37 PM

The best way to post on news or research is to come up with an interesting facet of the topic that is not fully answered by the article/study, or something that is not clear to you, or something that you would like to know further about. You're right that "Have you seen the news about xyz?" is not a compelling question. My role model for writing questions is Kamal. Go to his PaleoHacks profile ( http://paleohacks.com/users/1518/kamal-at-paindatabase-com#axzz1tvKONneu ) and study his questions if you're looking looking for ways to ask interesting, funny and profound questions.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on May 06, 2012
at 05:24 PM

I know, but only sucked into one site, not two. :)

C79a5b43dfc5749200bd9dcaa6bb0858

on May 06, 2012
at 05:05 PM

Warren D, you should post your question "What have politics, sexuality or religion got to do with leptin resets?" as a real question on PaleoHacks. Could be a good one. :-)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:53 PM

Well if you start posting articles on here you will still be on the internet!

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:43 PM

I was just using Kruse as an example, but it's hard to avoid the observation that positive threads about him are closed while negative threads are allowed to remain open.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on May 06, 2012
at 12:17 PM

I already spend too much time between this site and mark's daily apple. I really don't want to get sucked into a message board, or I'll never get off the internet. :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 06, 2012
at 09:40 AM

You can always post articles that have read, on paleo related message boards. There's a few about.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on May 06, 2012
at 08:21 AM

I liked the "nothing is black and white except 00000 and FFFFF"

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 06, 2012
at 05:53 AM

You didn't actually address my question.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 06, 2012
at 05:53 AM

btw, I am neither for or against Jack Kruse.

45eaf1688c1baf31d687a382b78f451f

(502)

on May 06, 2012
at 01:46 AM

+1 for "A Quilt of users...".

A08b210e4da7e69cd792bddc1f4aae4b

(1031)

on May 06, 2012
at 01:28 AM

As an addendum to your question, I'd really like peeps to think a bit harder about their question title and make it both a real question (ending in a question mark) and informative so I can make a quick call whether to click on it or move on. I'm not picking on anyone but a question like "Kansas City/St.Louis" means nothing to me and is just screen noise to my eyeballs.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on May 05, 2012
at 09:49 PM

@Warren D, these issues always seem to come up. I think it's perfectly natural, actually. We ask about evolution and food so then we want to start asking about evolution and religion, or whatever else. Or: how religion might affect our (evolutionarily informed) food choices -- to take an actual example we've had here many times.

6714718e2245e5190017d643a7614157

on May 05, 2012
at 09:24 PM

+1 This answers reminds me of 2 pigeons mating.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 05, 2012
at 09:20 PM

What have politics, sexuality or religion got to do with leptin resets?

0e395acc856e3353f3f5892e6b09b0e7

(1227)

on May 05, 2012
at 07:16 PM

I do love boring. I've had enough excitement in my life. I live in Fogeyville with my nice husband. I do Paleo/primal/archevore, yoga, tai chi, hula hooping. I may not have an exciting life, but I have lots joy and room for it. Thank you WCCP for your helpful answer.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393

on May 05, 2012
at 07:05 PM

I voted this answer up without reading it all the way through. I liked the feel of it and saw that the word "epistemological" used. Good enough for a +1 in my book.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on May 05, 2012
at 05:51 PM

Oh I see, I misunderstood your point. Yes, self-selected moderation is a funny thing, sometimes a helpful thing, sometimes a contentious thing. Yes, that is the post in question! Ambi's thread is somewhere in PH with lots of discussion, if I remember correctly. Good stuff.

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on May 05, 2012
at 05:47 PM

@Kamal: If I had to pick a favorite, it would be the low-carb/hypothyroidism post. Lots of evidence that reducing carbs reduces the active thyroid hormone (T3), but T3 has other functions besides regulating metabolism, and there's just no clinical evidence that low-carb diets actually produce any hypothyroid symptoms beyond the effect of low-calories, and really no physiological basis for making that claim. I worry that trying to treat hypothyroid with dietary carbs might delay treatment for what is a serious medical condition. (Also, a shout-out to "Ambimorph" who did some work here, too.)

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on May 05, 2012
at 05:32 PM

@Kamal: Not to belabor the point (or suppress your ideas), but if threads can be closed by non-moderators, then the non-moderators in those cases are acting as self-selected moderators.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:51 PM

By the way, I remember reading a cool posting on your blog a while back. What was it? Which is your coolest post? My memory is shot.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:48 PM

"people who want to advance their own ideas and suppress others" could also be used to describe humans in general. Also, the moderators were not self-selected. We simply are people who posted a lot and were willing to periodically check on tedious things like duplicate questions, spam answers, and the controversial stuff you mentioned. Internet addicts, if you will. Also also, most controversial threads, if they are closed, are closed by non-moderators. Please don't argue against what I just said, because that would mean you are suppressing my ideas :)

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:21 PM

The problem with self-selected moderators is that they tend to be people who want to advance their own ideas and suppress others. Not an ideal situation in what should be an open community.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:17 PM

I've recently posted a comment that people voted up and possibly wanted to be an answer rather than a comment. The reason I posted it as a comment was because it didn't technically answer the poster's question, even though most others answered it the same way my comment did.

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9 Answers

15
21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:11 PM

Technically, a real question is one that ends in a question mark.

How do questions get closed and/or deleted? Many are closed by the community, meaning other paleohacks users. Majority rules, for better or for worse. If a question is a duplicate, contains hate speech, talks about kittens in a cruel fashion, etc, we moderators will delete them.

Why do some Jack Kruse questions get closed and others remain open? Nothing is black and white, except for 000000 and FFFFFF. Jack is obviously a polarizing figure. Everybody thinks that their opinion (on Jack Kruse, on paleohacks moderation, on politics, on religion, on US dietary guidelines, on the cancellation of good TV shows) should be highly valued, and this is true. But in a community made of a variety of different eaters, thinkers, and researchers (A Quilt of users, if you will) there will always be some disagreement as to what is the absolute most correct way to run things. See American politics for a macro example.

On a more epistemological level, a question is something that queries another party for an explanation of an open issue.

Paleohacks is set up in a question and answer format, which makes it tough to shoehorn important issues at times.

Questions that masquerade as statements can be be good for comic relief though. Ending a question with a question mark AND an exclamation point is optimal for comic relief.

Okay, I'll shut up now. Happy Cinco de Mayo paleohackers!

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:21 PM

The problem with self-selected moderators is that they tend to be people who want to advance their own ideas and suppress others. Not an ideal situation in what should be an open community.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on May 05, 2012
at 05:51 PM

Oh I see, I misunderstood your point. Yes, self-selected moderation is a funny thing, sometimes a helpful thing, sometimes a contentious thing. Yes, that is the post in question! Ambi's thread is somewhere in PH with lots of discussion, if I remember correctly. Good stuff.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:51 PM

By the way, I remember reading a cool posting on your blog a while back. What was it? Which is your coolest post? My memory is shot.

45eaf1688c1baf31d687a382b78f451f

(502)

on May 06, 2012
at 01:46 AM

+1 for "A Quilt of users...".

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393

on May 05, 2012
at 07:05 PM

I voted this answer up without reading it all the way through. I liked the feel of it and saw that the word "epistemological" used. Good enough for a +1 in my book.

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on May 05, 2012
at 05:47 PM

@Kamal: If I had to pick a favorite, it would be the low-carb/hypothyroidism post. Lots of evidence that reducing carbs reduces the active thyroid hormone (T3), but T3 has other functions besides regulating metabolism, and there's just no clinical evidence that low-carb diets actually produce any hypothyroid symptoms beyond the effect of low-calories, and really no physiological basis for making that claim. I worry that trying to treat hypothyroid with dietary carbs might delay treatment for what is a serious medical condition. (Also, a shout-out to "Ambimorph" who did some work here, too.)

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on May 05, 2012
at 05:32 PM

@Kamal: Not to belabor the point (or suppress your ideas), but if threads can be closed by non-moderators, then the non-moderators in those cases are acting as self-selected moderators.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:48 PM

"people who want to advance their own ideas and suppress others" could also be used to describe humans in general. Also, the moderators were not self-selected. We simply are people who posted a lot and were willing to periodically check on tedious things like duplicate questions, spam answers, and the controversial stuff you mentioned. Internet addicts, if you will. Also also, most controversial threads, if they are closed, are closed by non-moderators. Please don't argue against what I just said, because that would mean you are suppressing my ideas :)

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on May 06, 2012
at 08:21 AM

I liked the "nothing is black and white except 00000 and FFFFF"

10
47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on May 05, 2012
at 07:01 PM

Let me try to give you a genuine answer to what seems to be a genuine question.

There are several things to consider. If these things are not common knowledge on the site, it is in part because the answers are not easy to find, but also in part because moderators, like anyone else, are subject to impatience.

First. When a moderator closes a question, or someone with 3,000+ reputation votes to close a question, the following menu pops up:

Why should this question be closed?

exact duplicate

off topic

subjective and argumentative

not a real question

blatantly offensive

no longer relevant

too localized

spam

There are a couple of problems here. First of all, there are glitches. Sometimes, for non-moderators at least, not all of the options are given. I don't know why, but I have heard this. Or if everyone else chooses one of the options, but the fifth vote chooses another option then maybe the option the fifth voter chooses will show up, but not the others -- actually I don't know how it works, but it is something like this. It's all very sloppy. Second, and more importantly: there is a limited list of options and the words are already chosen by the Stack Exchange software. If I close a question I might have any number of reasons for doing it, but at the end of it all, the only thing that will show up is "Closed as not a real question by WCC Paul." Because of this I often leave a comment to explain, but there's only so much that can do.

Second. So now you might be thinking: OK, fine, but what are the real reasons for closing? Are they just subjective?

The answer is: yes, to a certain extent they are subjective. Is this upsetting? Perhaps. Is this unavoidable? Yes.

The best way I myself have found to think about it, for myself, I suppose, is this. There is a whole lot of gray area to deal with on a site like ours. A lot of crap shows up that is obviously out of place. People selling things, people with the user name "f*ck this website" informing us how stupid we are because we don't eat whole wheat bread, people telling other people to go f*ck themselves. But in between that stuff and "you might want to try getting more sun" there is a whole lot that is hard to make a judgment on. Our response to this is simply to err on the side of deleting. If it's borderline, just get rid of it.

A similar gray area is contentious questions. It is a stated policy of Patrick's that questions about politics and religion are not allowed. But then what if the question is about the politics of paleo? Is that about politics? Well, we could debate this until we're blue in the face, but if we think it's going to lead to a contentious debate that will hurt people's feelings and distract from the purpose of the website then we'll close it or delete it. (If the "politics of paleo" example is not a good one, I'm sure you can imagine another; it happens frequently.)

So if your comment or question falls into a gray area and it is deleted, does that mean your free speech has been violated? No it does not, except insofar as the null set satisfies every property: In other words, no, because you do not have freedom of speech on this website. Neither do I.

But perhaps some people will still feel that an injustice has been done to them in some way or other. We are human beings after all. I think that is a fair reaction. The only thing I can say to that is what Patrick has often said: Don't take it personally. You have not been punished for breaking the law, and you are still a part of the community. It was just a decision that had to be made.

Third. OK, but why did that decision have to be made? Why is it so important to police this gray area and err on the side of deleting?

Well, internet communities like this one have a tendency to de-evolve into a parade of anger. Eliminating the gray area is a way to make sure this doesn't happen. It's a trade-off. Some people's feelings might be hurt because of essentially arbitrary decisions -- but as a result we get to keep this website as a real tool that is really helpful to people. (If you don't believe me on that one just look at the front page for a question asked by a newbie with about five helpful answers in response.) If contentious threads were not closed and deleted, that spirit of contentiousness would spread to the rest of the board.

Fourth. But doesn't this make Paleohacks kind of boring? Well, yes, we are "boring," in the sense that certain topics are off limits. But there are other places to address those topics. I don't visit them, but that might be because I'm boring. But I know that several members have listed other forums that are good places to discuss politics or sexuality or religion in conjunction with evolutionarily informed dieting and exercise.

6714718e2245e5190017d643a7614157

on May 05, 2012
at 09:24 PM

+1 This answers reminds me of 2 pigeons mating.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on May 05, 2012
at 09:49 PM

@Warren D, these issues always seem to come up. I think it's perfectly natural, actually. We ask about evolution and food so then we want to start asking about evolution and religion, or whatever else. Or: how religion might affect our (evolutionarily informed) food choices -- to take an actual example we've had here many times.

0e395acc856e3353f3f5892e6b09b0e7

(1227)

on May 05, 2012
at 07:16 PM

I do love boring. I've had enough excitement in my life. I live in Fogeyville with my nice husband. I do Paleo/primal/archevore, yoga, tai chi, hula hooping. I may not have an exciting life, but I have lots joy and room for it. Thank you WCCP for your helpful answer.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 06, 2012
at 05:53 AM

You didn't actually address my question.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 05, 2012
at 09:20 PM

What have politics, sexuality or religion got to do with leptin resets?

C79a5b43dfc5749200bd9dcaa6bb0858

on May 06, 2012
at 05:05 PM

Warren D, you should post your question "What have politics, sexuality or religion got to do with leptin resets?" as a real question on PaleoHacks. Could be a good one. :-)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 07, 2012
at 03:28 PM

Good idea! I'll do it. lol. ;)

6
26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21

(5798)

on May 05, 2012
at 03:55 PM

This is a good question.

5
7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

on May 05, 2012
at 03:59 PM

I'm more confused by people (not you) who post perfectly awesome answers as comments. Odd.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:17 PM

I've recently posted a comment that people voted up and possibly wanted to be an answer rather than a comment. The reason I posted it as a comment was because it didn't technically answer the poster's question, even though most others answered it the same way my comment did.

2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 05, 2012
at 04:28 PM

Put it this way. Jack Kruse is a touchy subject. I had my account suspended for 3 days just because I made a joke in a thread about Jack Kruse that everyone else was taking oh so seriously. Be careful Sam! lol.

1
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on May 06, 2012
at 02:14 PM

The great thing about PH is that closing a question is not a single persons opinion. It generally a number of us that mark questions as problematic and ultimately the question gets closed. In general if something gets closed it probably deserves to. I vote to close fairly often. Particularly questions that are even questionably off topic. Many never close but its just my opinion and that's not worth all that much! There's a lot of noise on PH so a little pruning is necessary at times.

1
Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on May 06, 2012
at 08:25 AM

I've also been a bit confused about what I can post as a question.. sometimes I see new research or a controversial topic treated in the news and I think it would be of interest to the PH community but I really don't want to post something like "Have you seen the news about xyz?" just to make it into a question. I find I really don't have any questions about the Paleo lifestyle/diet, it's pretty straightforward, and anyway most of my questions have already been asked in multiple different ways already and a search through the archives clears things up fine.

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on May 06, 2012
at 05:24 PM

I know, but only sucked into one site, not two. :)

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11478)

on May 06, 2012
at 06:37 PM

The best way to post on news or research is to come up with an interesting facet of the topic that is not fully answered by the article/study, or something that is not clear to you, or something that you would like to know further about. You're right that "Have you seen the news about xyz?" is not a compelling question. My role model for writing questions is Kamal. Go to his PaleoHacks profile ( http://paleohacks.com/users/1518/kamal-at-paindatabase-com#axzz1tvKONneu ) and study his questions if you're looking looking for ways to ask interesting, funny and profound questions.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 06, 2012
at 09:40 AM

You can always post articles that have read, on paleo related message boards. There's a few about.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:53 PM

Well if you start posting articles on here you will still be on the internet!

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on May 06, 2012
at 12:17 PM

I already spend too much time between this site and mark's daily apple. I really don't want to get sucked into a message board, or I'll never get off the internet. :)

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 06, 2012
at 05:52 AM

Let's face it. What Sam Knox really wants to know is, why are some of the threads about Jack Kruse getting closed?
Can we have an answer that doesn't beat around the bush, going into the finer details of how to close a topic, "gray areas" or why religion, sexuality and politics are not allowed here? In other words, a straight answer.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on May 07, 2012
at 09:35 AM

happen on Paleohacks in the old days, it really didn't. Now you know why we have to close and delete so many questions. There's the irony again.

F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on May 06, 2012
at 03:43 PM

I was just using Kruse as an example, but it's hard to avoid the observation that positive threads about him are closed while negative threads are allowed to remain open.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 06, 2012
at 05:53 AM

btw, I am neither for or against Jack Kruse.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on May 07, 2012
at 04:36 PM

It was not my job to just say that in the first place. It was your job to say: "I'm sorry, I think you misunderstood my question; let me rephrase it."

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on May 07, 2012
at 09:23 AM

Let me see if I have this straight, Warren D. After I misunderstand your question in a comment to my answer, you give my response an extremely uncharitable interpretation: that I am intentionally avoiding what I actually know to be your question. Then you post an brand new answer, just to complain about the answer that I put a *lot* of time into, an answer that addresses issues that have come up *many* times on this website -- and you suggest that my *entire* answer was constructed as a way of avoiding the "real" issue. I can't tell you [Continued]

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on May 07, 2012
at 09:32 AM

This is actually unprecedented on Paleohacks. I have never been insulted in any way, probably because I strive always to conduct myself with kindness and impartiality. It's more than a little ironic that you are exhibiting the kind of contentiousness the procedures for the prevention of which I described in my answer. In fact this thread would probably have been deleted as unnecessarily contentious had I and another moderator not seen an opportunity to give answers we thought would be helpful to the community. This kind of thing did not [Continued]

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on May 07, 2012
at 09:26 AM

why five people -- none of whom are moderators -- voted to close a question about Jack Kruse. Probably because there were pre-existing threads on Jack Kruse that seemed identical (go search the tags "jack-kruse," "jack," and "dr-jack-kruse"). True, the reason given was "not a real question," but that -- **as I said in my answer** -- may not be an accurate reflection of their intentions.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 07, 2012
at 03:40 PM

WCC Paul wrote: "I can't tell you why five people -- none of whom are moderators -- voted to close a question about Jack Kruse." So why didn't you just say that in the first place? This thread has been like squeezing blood out of a stone. LOL.

0
2f54dbe892ec89b12d1db686568e885a

(919)

on May 05, 2012
at 07:03 PM

This is a 'real question'. Is this a 'real answer'?

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