14

votes

[Meta] What do you think of Robb Wolfs disparaging remarks about Paleo Hacks?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created January 11, 2012 at 1:17 AM

"PH is like my real family: I know I'm related but disavow all knowledge."

" shame on you far hanging there(paleo hacks). That place is an intelectual black hole ;0)"

Do you think the site is full of i-holes?, and if how can it be made better?

Btw, this isn't a rip on Rob by any means.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

@Dave S Haha! I have a chubby cat that needs one. She keeps eating the other cat's food so he's lean and she's plump.

2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on June 13, 2013
at 11:59 PM

"Apparently some guys were saying something to the effect that if women could not breast feed they should not reproduce." That isn't a misogynist statement.

Ed7403e397077dd1acdbf25c7f6e56ce

(3452)

on February 16, 2013
at 10:21 PM

I'd say he was referring to the closed-minded, dogmatic element that's present here. That attitude is more suggestive of an 'intellectual black hole'. After hearing him interviewed, I couldn't help but think of all the 'not Paleo' feedback he would get if he anonymously posted here.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 12, 2012
at 02:25 PM

Fringe groups always attract the disenfranchised, thats the reality, and it has nothing to do with paleo per se, only outsider type thinking. If one wants to disassociate from the crazies, that needs to be a publicly stated and unambigous statement about what paleo really is, and what it isnt, and what is normal in this group, and what _isnt_ normal, rather than targeting a single public website which in fact looks worse to image. Wherever fringe groups gather, meet or talk, the disenfranchised will come - hence the need to address the issue front on, rather than duck and dodge. My 2c...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 12, 2012
at 02:24 PM

Fringe groups always attract the disenfranchised, thats the reality, and it has nothing to do with paleo per se, only outsider thinking. If one wants to disassociate from the crazies, that needs to be a publicly stated and unambigous statement about what paleo really is, and what it isnt, and what is _normal_ in this group, and what isnt normal, rather than targeting a single public website. Wherever they fringe groups gather, meet or talk, the disenfranchised will come - hence the need to address the issue front on, rather than duck and dodge !

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on January 18, 2012
at 09:35 PM

I am glad that Robb provided an answer here cuz I have nothing to hide. All of what I communicated with him over FB, I have also communicated with the Paleo community at large.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on January 14, 2012
at 05:30 PM

Oh! The points are fun though :) Kind of like "yay someone got something out of my answer and gave me a present." Definitely, I don't like seeing the 12 answers and 0 points - if you take the time to answer in a positive way, then show some upvote love, as it will just encourage, I hope, people wanting to continue to to post thoughtful things. But then again I'm a crazy optimist :)

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on January 14, 2012
at 04:40 AM

ALRIGHTY ALL PALEO HACKERS COME TO ORDER NOW!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBIC8JTQMMQ

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on January 14, 2012
at 04:37 AM

Weeeee...let the January meeting of the woman hater's man club come to order....come on alfalfa! Get er done!

Medium avatar

(2301)

on January 13, 2012
at 05:26 PM

7 other people don't care either :P lol

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 13, 2012
at 04:08 PM

There's rarely enough scope to give a full answer with all the respective context, which leads to multiple 'right' answers being put forward while people argue at cross-purposes when actually there's very little difference in their underlying philosophies. There ought to be more editing of answers to expand them rather than comments simply disagreeing, but then you don't gain reputation for improving other people's answers. A truer wiki-like approach with a single 'answer' and an attendant discussion page may be a better way to filter or present cumulative knowledge.

Baa413654789b57f3579474ca7fa43d7

(2349)

on January 13, 2012
at 02:30 PM

Robb, this is not meant as any type of disrespect or attack. But, you do know you have threads on your own website forum that are pretty loony too. For example, a thread where people discuss eating roadkill: http://robbwolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1493&p=22998 I would think this reflects on you more than anything at PH. Maybe you don't monitor it, but it seems funny to ding PH when your own website has similar content.

A45af235ed4dd0b4f548c59e91b75763

(1936)

on January 12, 2012
at 10:44 PM

See.. this is the kind of post that caused the whole problem. Who cares? What kind of thing is that to say? ;)

A45af235ed4dd0b4f548c59e91b75763

(1936)

on January 12, 2012
at 10:26 PM

I feel that an open and free environment like PH is always going to have a fair share of craziness, that comes along with the territory. However slogging through some poo poo for the genuine brilliance that comes from that mass majority of posters is well worth it. I have never run into anything on PH that was all that awful to be honest, mostly just worth a good chuckle and move on. Then again, I’m not trying to make a living on the reputability of the paleo lifestyle.

C145035bde13d07121c54da046128cc1

(1549)

on January 12, 2012
at 07:35 PM

Just my thought, it might be good it might be terrible. it did improve thing's at CF.com for a time and if you are police/mil etc it's easy to have a back-end verification to provide some anonymity. I see this discussion as essentially about tradeoffs. Ironically this is the very concept folks tend to miss when talking about nutrition, politics etc. Once you are proficient in the core material, are you able to articulate the cost/benefits of a given approach or action? this is self-governance story. HOW do y'all want this community to grow and thrive?

A7768b6c6be7f5d6acc76e5efa66464c

on January 12, 2012
at 07:12 PM

But down-voting costs reputation points--so there is a built-in disincentive to down-vote. I guess that's to prevent people from down-voting people simply because they don't like them, or based on personality rather than the content of the posting, but still....

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 12, 2012
at 06:27 PM

With that being said, I doubt its a realistic idea as many PH'ers cherish their points and probably wouldn't want to do anything to potentially devalue their stats or status. (Maybe I’m off base with that assumption?). Keep in mind, this idea is coming from someone who doesn’t quite “get” the fascination with the points. If rep points granted PH’ers access to premium content or other perks I would “get it”, but until these points can be turned-in for credit towards grass-fed beef I'll be content with my 200+ :)

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 12, 2012
at 06:26 PM

With that being said, I doubt its a realistic idea as many PH'ers cherish their points and probably wouldn't want to do anything to potentially devalue their stats or status. (Maybe I’m off-base with that assumption?). Keep in mind, this idea is coming from someone who doesn’t quite “get” the fascination with the points. If rep points granted PH’ers access to premium content or other perks I would “get it”, but until these points can be turned-in for credit towards grass-fed beef I'll be content with my 200+ :) – Craig 0 secs ago

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 12, 2012
at 06:25 PM

With that being said, I doubt its a realistic idea as many PH'ers cherish their points and probably wouldn't want to do anything that would potentially devalue their stats or status. (Maybe I’m off-base with that assumption?). Keep in mind, this idea is coming from someone who doesn’t quite “get” the fascination with the points. If rep points granted PH’ers access to premium content or other perks I would “get it”, but until these points can be turned-in for credit towards grass-fed beef I'll be content with my 200+ :)

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 12, 2012
at 06:23 PM

@jesuisjuba - I think you have a solid approach to things here on PH. I really don't like the idea of rewarding people for NOT being dense, but I think the extra rep points for utilizing the search function would serve its purpose for some.

F0e558010a2ecb31fa37b7c491596b8e

(3850)

on January 12, 2012
at 06:06 PM

Posting under your real name may cut down on some of the undesirable stuff a little, but not entirely. The problem is that lots of people don't think there is anything wrong with what they post/their attitude/their treatment of others and will not be deterred by using their real name. It will, however, hamper the discussion somewhat, because lots of other people will stop posting personal experiences out of fear of being googled. It's better to encourage downvoting as a means of enhanced moderation.

F0e558010a2ecb31fa37b7c491596b8e

(3850)

on January 12, 2012
at 05:52 PM

I'm relatively new myself and I agree with all of your points, including limits to participation. I commented about this earlier on the "how to improve PH" thread, that having a waiting period before being allowed to ask a question would help to reduce a lot of the the duplicate questions. I'd be concerned about the fee-based model, not because I don't think a site like this deserves some finaincial support from the users, but because once someone pays for the "right" to post, it become a lot harder to yank their privlideges when it may be warranted.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 12, 2012
at 05:45 PM

@Robb, thanks for coming to PH to clarify your comments. I hope some of those who saw your tweets will come for the whole story too. I wouldn't mind using my full name at all, but that requirement might scare off some who are worried about how people will react to their questions and ideas. In the long run, I'd rather see us encourage the shyer community members and rein in the bold when needed. The worst thing that happens that way is that we read some things we don't like.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 12, 2012
at 04:48 PM

This is very valuable feedback.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 12, 2012
at 03:50 PM

..."verified identities" amongst the other unverified ones. It gives extra credence to the views of real people, which is sometimes beneficial. But I haven't really seen much in the way of misogyny, compared to other boards. In fact, there were a few months when it seemed dozens of women on paleohacks were getting to know each other through comments and interpersonal emails, providing support for one another, and discussing women's issues quite frequently. I've had the pleasure of communicating with a few through email and facebook, and have never had so many 40ish year mothers as friends :)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 12, 2012
at 03:47 PM

Thanks for this answer, and it brings up a very interesting issue. Mandating real identities is both good and bad. It would severely cut down on the wacko posts, but might also discourage some people who are concerned about privacy and other issues from posting. Also, there is an ease of accessibility issue. There's no right answer, but there is definitely room for some positive change. Having scoured paleohacks way too much, I've seen a lot of things that could be improved. It might be cool to have an Amazon type thing with...

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on January 12, 2012
at 03:29 PM

Honestly @Craig I never thought of that. Lame. If you look at my profile I've only asked a few questions that became smarter as I grew more comfortable and with my knowledge and thoughtful about what I was asking. The majority of "rep points" came from simply giving good answers and such. Huh..

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb

(5541)

on January 12, 2012
at 03:25 PM

This answer needs to be saved forever for the one and only reason that it links to some badass discussions here on PH. I guess it's an ok answer too...BAM ;) winky face

A7768b6c6be7f5d6acc76e5efa66464c

on January 12, 2012
at 12:26 PM

Nice response Mr. Wolf. I support the "real identity" suggestion. I have a long-standing personal policy of only writing (anything) under my real, full name. Why? Because I recognized my own propensity to get snarky and say things I would NEVER say to someone face to face--nor want showing up attributed to me on a Google search--possibly of a future employer, or someone from another important real-world relationship. I realize there are times when one has a legit privacy concern (particularly with health/illness) but workable solutions exist for the OCCASIONAL need for anonymity.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on January 12, 2012
at 06:53 AM

no tar and feathering from me either (and I love tar and feathering). Crowd sourcing means crazies are supposed to be able to have a voice and then get downvoted, but at that point that craziness has annoyed users and generated more craziness. PH has moved more towards moderation since that FB message from Patrik.

07ca188c8dac3a17f629dd87198d2098

(7970)

on January 12, 2012
at 05:57 AM

We (for some value of "we") still love you, Robb. No tar & feathers from me.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on January 12, 2012
at 05:53 AM

Context really IS everything isn't it? Well played.

C145035bde13d07121c54da046128cc1

(1549)

on January 12, 2012
at 05:26 AM

Let the tar and feathering begin.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on January 12, 2012
at 03:29 AM

+! - Being tipsy quite agrees with you, Meredith!

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on January 12, 2012
at 01:08 AM

So when are they going to make an I hole badge? What is an I hole anyway?

Ca2c940a1947e6200883908592956680

(8574)

on January 11, 2012
at 11:30 PM

I gave up waiting for Bridget Fonda to post about her triglycerides months ago.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 11, 2012
at 10:52 PM

But most of the folks in the original Twitter discussion commented about the (perceived) low signal-to-noise ratio. I'm not sure why this would be different from the comments on their blogs, but it seems that they see a big difference in the quality (or quantity?) of the discourse.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 11, 2012
at 10:23 PM

For those who have posted duplicate or near duplicate questions, I wonder how many intentionally skipped the search function. After all, how is one to gain rep points if their questions are already answered? Although it would water down the value of the voting system to a degree, perhaps PH should give rep points to those those who use the search function or FAQ to deter this practice.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 11, 2012
at 10:22 PM

For those who have posted duplicate or near duplicate questions, I wonder how many intentionally skipped the search function. After all, how is one to gain rep points if their questions are already answered? Although it would water down the value of the voting system to a degree, perhaps PH should rep points to those those who use the search function or FAQ to deter this practice.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 11, 2012
at 10:20 PM

For those who have posted duplicate or near duplicate questions, I wonder how many intentionally skip the search function. After all, how is one to gain rep points if their questions are already answered? Although it would water down the value of up-votes to a degree, perhaps PH should give up-votes for those using the search function or FAQ to deter this practice.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 10:08 PM

@raydawg, LOL I have enough problems with that since I frequently reek of simmering bone broth!

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on January 11, 2012
at 10:02 PM

LOL! Hey I used to actully give thougtful,helpful answers until I became bitter and disillusioned. Now I just stick to making nasty comments and I'm hell bent on "giving" all my points away before I die. Yep. I'm a giver.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on January 11, 2012
at 09:52 PM

@Nance, it will certainly improve your relationship with your cats. They'll develop a huge fascination with you.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on January 11, 2012
at 09:21 PM

true paleohacker = actuary. hell yes.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on January 11, 2012
at 08:34 PM

Sounds like all that fish oil is affecting the membrane integrity of his brain.

Ec7cb2a7a68655954a01f03e95be1383

(1453)

on January 11, 2012
at 08:12 PM

who pulled Jaminet off the blogroll?

Medium avatar

(2301)

on January 11, 2012
at 08:02 PM

p.s. I love you guys even if Robb Wolf doesn't. <3

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:50 PM

@Dave S, OR maybe Quilt is tired of being jumped on by people who don't like his ad lib writing style? Rather than looking for his message they cut and jab at his punctuation, articulation, etc.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:50 PM

I keep trying to get my cat to IF, but if I don't feed her, she is super naughty. Knocking stuff off of counters, getting into the trash, etc. etc.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:47 PM

I think they are usually kept in a cornhole...

Medium avatar

(19469)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:55 PM

Who you callin a rep point whore?! 50k FTW!

Medium avatar

(19469)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:53 PM

I think your cod liver oil needs to be fermented to activate the "relationship factor".

Medium avatar

(19469)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:51 PM

Where can I get plans for a corn cob house?

7c9f81d68c78de1a31eab9c91c17b4b8

on January 11, 2012
at 05:43 PM

I was clear on that.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 05:26 PM

I asked for that too, but as I have some familiarity with research I must concede we wouldn't be a random sample so any surveys would only represent opinions within PH and that's fine with me.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 05:24 PM

@Aravind, one widespread assumption I don't swallow whole is that there were no fruit/veggie-loving ancient humans. If not, why do I love fruit so much? Somebody with a "fruit tooth" and "starch/greens tooth" must have reproduced at some point so we'll all in this together, right? Okay, I thrive on meat too but that doesn't make you wrong in ANY way as long as you're pleased with your health.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 05:16 PM

I enjoyed reading your viewpoint, Christopher IMO it's worth much.

Medium avatar

(12379)

on January 11, 2012
at 04:22 PM

I've read a bunch of the subsequent twatting that's been going on and it seems so juvenile to me "BUUUUT you saaaaid this...and then yoooooou saaaid that...." we need a lunch monitor to sort it all out!

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on January 11, 2012
at 03:58 PM

I was going to comment about rep whores but am distracted by tube tops.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:47 PM

Google is your friend is the big takeaway.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on January 11, 2012
at 03:44 PM

Just kidding about the vegans!

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on January 11, 2012
at 03:43 PM

Thanks Jake. Given I'm vegetarian, I obviously don't like the veggie bashing at. Unless someone is vegan of course :-)

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:36 PM

Google is your friend. Amen.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:03 PM

Good points Jake. My second question ever on paleohacks was about compassion and vegetarianism, and I got absolutely torn apart! It's always a touchy issue and becomes easily devolved...http://paleohacks.com/questions/9826/paleo-vs-vegetarian-a-question-of-optimal-health-vs-evolved-compassion

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on January 11, 2012
at 02:58 PM

I like this triple threat version of you. Mer v3.0.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:34 PM

I dunno. Ron Rosedale -- admittedly not a Paleo Guru, but still quite the public figure -- has participated in extensive discussions here, and I think it's been all to the good. I mean, I understand your concerns, but I think it's more likely that ongoing participation by bigwigs would result in less awe and hero-worship, and more familiarity. A good thing, in other words.

0e395acc856e3353f3f5892e6b09b0e7

(1227)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:27 PM

I am grateful for all that you and the other moderators do. I keep coming back day after to day to see what and who are new in the PH world. I'm learning and discerning more all the time.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:15 PM

WTH? Patrik nowhere in my response did I say you slammed Robb. I said you slammed G2C and your response to her can't be characterized as anything but a slam. And it was excellent.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:03 PM

Those are really key points.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:59 PM

Okay, that's it! My dog is doing a leptin reset!

F6ea948ab43dc51d72509c0989e670fe

(1639)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:57 PM

You're welcome, Patrik.

F6ea948ab43dc51d72509c0989e670fe

(1639)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:57 PM

I know it took a lot of bravery to come [out of the closet, if you will?] and I'm always very respectful of your opinion because of that. I just remember those 2 threads being a lot more...mean...if you catch my drift. Either my opinion is jaded or a lot of stuff has been re-written.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:56 PM

To "hang out here" can take suck a lot of time from your day. Sisson and Wolf are very busy people who make a living from paleo/primal. I can't imagine that they have a lot of time to spare. I note that now that Dr. Kruse has a blog and devotees - he posts here much less.

F6ea948ab43dc51d72509c0989e670fe

(1639)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:54 PM

Aravind -- not at you, certainly. I just think that at times, we're [this is some to most of paleohacks] is not very nice to vegetarians, or vegans. Yeah, some of them aren't eating optimally. That doesn't mean we can't be respectful of their beliefs.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:42 PM

That's a key point, which explains most of my reputation!

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on January 11, 2012
at 12:35 PM

Jake - since you reference one of my answers above, can you please clarify your answer. I'm trying figure who you are directing the "don't think we are respectful to our neighbors" comment. Thanks

E9808a9cfe806a22c0bdaff7c010c659

(405)

on January 11, 2012
at 10:57 AM

Beth-WeightMaven, well Deans is much more "visible" then the other three (honestly I haven't heard of the middle two) but after pulling Jaminet off the blogroll due to his Mercola posts I think some people are just moody. "Bring arguments or GTFO ?".

C074eec3b3c0325ef3018a128111823a

(1012)

on January 11, 2012
at 09:48 AM

crowd-sourcing has benefits too, that we could seek to bring to the fore better. It's not like PH and TPS podcast serve the same purpose in the same way, they're entirely different animals. I'd like to see PH used for meaningful survey-style polling of the community to find what works or doesn't on a more collective basis

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 11, 2012
at 09:43 AM

G2C = gone2croatan : https://twitter.com/#!/robbwolf/status/156487786323656704

2f931662684a7747be36255c8b486228

(1049)

on January 11, 2012
at 09:40 AM

What were you drinking btw? Maybe I'll try some.

D07a525f9021f8d72bf6aaa52893c795

(1011)

on January 11, 2012
at 09:34 AM

I won't be leaving my shoes outside your door!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 11, 2012
at 09:12 AM

No, you are not a big, massive jerk. The feeling of awe when you *dinged* me is something I will always remember.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:39 AM

Beth's question is a good one -- why don't the big names hang out? I am some theories. ;)

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:37 AM

I didn't slam Robb & what is G2C?

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:36 AM

Please be clear: my Kool-Aid comment was directed at Kruse and his disciple -- not Robb.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:34 AM

Thanks Jake. Much appreciated.

F6ea948ab43dc51d72509c0989e670fe

(1639)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:08 AM

I'm sure of it. *shivers*.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on January 11, 2012
at 06:56 AM

You would be frightened at the number of questions we've deleted that serve no purpose other than trollbaiting and smugness against veg*ns.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:48 AM

FTW Meredith. Cheers

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:38 AM

Ehhh, fun/funny/smartassishness gets the most + votes, a lot of great stuff is pushed down because it didn't have a Dr Seuss 'ring' to it

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:36 AM

it should be a badge

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:34 AM

@Beth, Actually, Beth, to be fair, those were quotes from Rob, in response to questions or comments from other people. They have nothing to do (directly) with his comments, or this posting

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:31 AM

Sure your points are great, but where's your gold badge? ;)

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:28 AM

your spelling is really great, considering.

F44b15b2fd1ad134200793d6b474fc4c

(938)

on January 11, 2012
at 05:28 AM

Totally agree with you, Meredith!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 04:08 AM

You're right, Matthew. I think I was guilty on that one at times and I skip more questions now and try to focus my answers better when I do respond. To achieve a valuable exchange requires thought and consideration on both sides but it's worth the effort.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 04:04 AM

You're right, Matthew. I think I was guilty on that one at times and I currently skip questions on which I have no expertise and try to focus my answers better when I do respond. I think the voting helps teach how well we do on that over time too.

Medium avatar

(10663)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:57 AM

Newer update: Robb Wolf is now following me on Twitter. Huh.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:40 AM

I think it is true that some want to be handed perfect answers without effort when they could often easily use google to find the answer. However this site works at its best when contributors take the time to carefully read and understand the question at hand, think about it and then give clear and informative answers. I think that one good answer that is informative and has some thought put into it is worth more than a dozen brief, hastily typed answers.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:33 AM

Kamal, http://assets.flavorwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/zack.jpg

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:32 AM

I really hope it doesn't make me start menstruating :S

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:31 AM

Will a mere three days of 50 grams of safe starches cause you to resume menstruating? Try it mo-fo! Find out! I dare you.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:20 AM

That's a compliment, you dummy! An intellectual black hole means that there's so much knowledge here that the place collapsed in on itself. An intellectual gas giant on the other hand...

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:18 AM

Tru [email protected]!$ I love it when people give measured answers "Well, my experience was this, but evidence points to this, and your mileage may vary". That kind of stuff gets me excited. Maybe I should be a librarian or an actuary.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:11 AM

No, I mean the ongoing conversation within the last 30 minutes and there was no evidence of joking on either side.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:10 AM

Depends how smelly the cod liver oil is...

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:08 AM

Call me Chicken!

Medium avatar

(12379)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:08 AM

I disagree I read his tweets which had emoticons in them as tongue in cheek. There were many worse things said by others, some of which I agree with, some I don't.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:06 AM

Make a thread about it, I dare you :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:04 AM

Not only do they dole it out, they point to it as THE TRUTH and seem unwilling to consider ant other way They've become just as dogmatic as CW. A true paleohacker only cares about the science and is open to what works.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:03 AM

That's all fine, but WILL cod liver oil save my relationship?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:02 AM

Maybe that's the problem. People around here dole out advice based on what worked for them In their own specific situation and circumstances and seem to think everybody and their dog should only do it that way, regardless of the other folk's current situation.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:01 AM

Not joking. The ongoing conversation is serious and sincere.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:01 AM

Now you're just being a comment points whore. That's fine. Make fun. I know where to find you.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:00 AM

I agree 200 percent!

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:51 AM

looking at your rep points total, you might as well be working the block in nothing but a g-string and tube top...

6714718e2245e5190017d643a7614157

on January 11, 2012
at 02:47 AM

ShaBam! ShaBam! ShaBam!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:44 AM

You made my evening, Meredith, bless you! +1 for daring to type "puke in my shoes" while UI.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on January 11, 2012
at 02:42 AM

Just when I think I have you figured out, you write something that makes sense. Always keeping me guessing

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on January 11, 2012
at 02:41 AM

Awesome Meredith!

Medium avatar

(12379)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:41 AM

Rep point whores! Hahaha I love it!

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 11, 2012
at 02:40 AM

Well, Melissa is practically an owner. I cannot recall the last comment here from J Stanton, Paul is infrequent, and, well let's just say I wouldn't exactly ask Evelyn for a PH reference!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:32 AM

Except some names DO come. Melissa HGL, J Stanton, Evelyn Carbsane and Paul Jaminet comment occasionally and Quilt is here frequently.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 11, 2012
at 02:09 AM

A testament to the truth of "I've enjoyed hanging out here the last several months."

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:08 AM

Says she with the shiny gold badge. ;)

Medium avatar

(10663)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:03 AM

Update: Robb just tweeted he'd "try to get over here a little each week." If only he would give an actual reason why he doesn't think PH is all it's cracked up to be rather than being super vague about it.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 11, 2012
at 01:37 AM

To be fair, it was not just Robb dinging PH ... the conversation included a number of folks who are visible in the paleo community (Emily Deans, Anastasia Boulais, Lindsay Starke, Jamie Scott). It's fine to just lob a few bombs Robb's way, but maybe (just maybe) there's a little fire with that smoke?

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:21 AM

I'm giving him the benefit of assuming he was being humorous. It would be cool if he hung out here once in a while...

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27 Answers

best answer

53
0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:35 AM

I usually answer only after I've read all answers and comments first. I usually answer only when I am not drunk, not menstruating and not all amped up on safe starches. I am sorry to say that tonight IS NOT THE NIGHT!

I have had my issues with PH in the past, for sure! I've never belonged to any online forum. Ever. In my life. Ever. But, PH is full of big thinkers and heavy hitters when it comes to nutrition and exercise. There are quite a few threads that can be sold as chapters of diet and nutrition books for a pretty penny. There are also a few threads that make me want to puke in my shoes. Some, (Oak0Y Grok rest your soul), are so incomprehensibly inspirationalthat I want to wreck my house and build one of corn cobs in the middle of the forest. (Also let's eat wild living animals okay?) :)

Here's what I think. If you are going to make your living in the "Paleo" world, best not to shit in the places that discuss such things. But hell, I've been drinking.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:48 AM

FTW Meredith. Cheers

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on January 11, 2012
at 02:41 AM

Awesome Meredith!

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:28 AM

your spelling is really great, considering.

2f931662684a7747be36255c8b486228

(1049)

on January 11, 2012
at 09:40 AM

What were you drinking btw? Maybe I'll try some.

D07a525f9021f8d72bf6aaa52893c795

(1011)

on January 11, 2012
at 09:34 AM

I won't be leaving my shoes outside your door!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:47 PM

I think they are usually kept in a cornhole...

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:44 AM

You made my evening, Meredith, bless you! +1 for daring to type "puke in my shoes" while UI.

F44b15b2fd1ad134200793d6b474fc4c

(938)

on January 11, 2012
at 05:28 AM

Totally agree with you, Meredith!

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on January 11, 2012
at 02:58 PM

I like this triple threat version of you. Mer v3.0.

Medium avatar

(19469)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:51 PM

Where can I get plans for a corn cob house?

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on January 12, 2012
at 03:29 AM

+! - Being tipsy quite agrees with you, Meredith!

34
21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:57 AM

The Drama Llama has arrived on the paleo scene in the past few months, starting with Gary Taubes vs Stephan Guyenet.

I can see Robb's point, and I can see the opposite point equally well. Of course there are going to be dumb questions. Is bubble gum paleo? Will cod liver oil save my relationship? But that is to be expected.

There are 3,815 users on paleohacks. Almost 11,000 questions have been asked. Will each new question be awesomely mind-blowing? Probably not. But as paleo becomes more and more popular due to people like Robb, Mark Sisson, and even a couple of the folks who've posted on paleohacks (I'm looking at you Paul Jaminet, Cate Shanahan, Chris Masterjohn, and a few others), more new people arrive and ask questions. Sometimes I'll read a question and think that I'm too cool for school, being all seasoned and shit (but not really, since eating "paleo" is ironically quite a new concept in the US). So it's nice to help new people out, as the above mentioned people do with their books, services, blogs, etc.

Not to mention the fact that some really really awesome information has been laid down among the morass of posts on paleohacks. This is just a sliver that I thought of off-hand...

Kurt Harris and Melissa HGL provide some interesting views on the coconut
A great compilation of anti-paleo arguments, and another one.
Travis Culp on Zinc, K2, and cavities.
Lots of back and forth about safe starches round 1 and round 2.
Paul Jaminet on heart attacks and dietary saturated fat needs.
Tons of stuff about caffeine.
Low carb diets and thyroid
Chris Masterjohn, Dr. Kruse, and Dr. Rosedale on dietary approaches and blood sugar

So sure, some people will sift through and find things they want to read, some people are too busy or annoyed, etc. But there is so much dang content on this site. If someone was brand new to paleo, I'd point them to Robb/Sisson/Kresser/Jaminet and have them read a concise list or two. But when they get curious, there aren't that many places with a greater collection of information than paleohacks. And where else can you go to get a nearly instant response from strangers on the internet about your random-ass paleo question?

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:08 AM

Call me Chicken!

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on January 11, 2012
at 09:52 PM

@Nance, it will certainly improve your relationship with your cats. They'll develop a huge fascination with you.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:31 AM

Will a mere three days of 50 grams of safe starches cause you to resume menstruating? Try it mo-fo! Find out! I dare you.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 10:08 PM

@raydawg, LOL I have enough problems with that since I frequently reek of simmering bone broth!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:03 AM

That's all fine, but WILL cod liver oil save my relationship?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:06 AM

Make a thread about it, I dare you :)

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:10 AM

Depends how smelly the cod liver oil is...

Medium avatar

(19469)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:53 PM

I think your cod liver oil needs to be fermented to activate the "relationship factor".

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:32 AM

I really hope it doesn't make me start menstruating :S

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb

(5541)

on January 12, 2012
at 03:25 PM

This answer needs to be saved forever for the one and only reason that it links to some badass discussions here on PH. I guess it's an ok answer too...BAM ;) winky face

23
C145035bde13d07121c54da046128cc1

on January 12, 2012
at 05:24 AM

So, here is my take on this: During the frackas a few days ago about the feminist/paleo/Movnat schtick. Lindsay commented that the woman was partially correct, that paleo did have a number of misogynists. I was shocked and asked her "where" and "who" and she said "paleo hacks." Apparently some guys were saying something to the effect that if women could not breast feed they should not reproduce.

They were apparently serious. This type of stuff is apparently a not-infrequent occurrence.

This prompted my admonition to Lindsay, and now we find ourselves here.

Now I'm going to make an apology and then I'm going to piss some people off, warm up your tar, fluff your feathers.

Apology: It was bad for me to say what I said. I am perturbed by this place at times, in no small part because of the potential lost (IN my opinion) which I will ge to in a moment. Whatever my reservations are of anyone in this community however, we are generally stronger and better when not snipping at each other. I was pissed at the ridiculous feminist piece AND that PH was of sufficiently questionable content to cause Lindsay to consider it a misogynist holdout. the combo just buggared me, but that's no excuse for saying what I said.

Please check out the following: [meta]-what-do-you-think-of-robb-wolfs-disparaging-remarks-about-paleo-hacks?

This was early in the PH incarnation and I was EXCITED. I was familiar with the stack-overflow type of Q&A and I knew that it was popular amongst programmers as it allowed for the potential of some kind of binary information processing, yes/no answers that would allow the cream to rise to the top, especially when coupled with the social badging aspects of crowd voting. Cool. I watched, and some cool stuff was brewing, I got busy did not check back for a time but when I did I was kinda horrified. The first thing I remember finding was a thread on killing and eating a squirrel, drinking the blood and other goodies. I guess I'm one to talk after the I-caveman thing but I was thinking "what if one of my clients finds this place, or if I post here tracks my name to it?" How am I going to convince this diabetic mother of two that paleo is sane with stuff like this being the soup d'jour? Now, you may be thinking that I'm just being hysterical and not getting the full vibe of the place. Well, my first misgiving was not my own, it came from Patrick: [meta]-what-do-you-think-of-robb-wolfs-disparaging-remarks-about-paleo-hacks?

So here's how things stand from my side of the campfire: 1- I fucked up saying anything. Bad on me. 2-Lindsay thinks a not insignificant misogynist element calls this place home. 3-A fair number of folks I respect chimed in with similar thoughts. 4-Patrick, the PH FOUNDER, expressed QA/QC concerns 18 months ago.

The back and forth about "there is still a lot of good: people, articles etc." reminds me of the decline of the CrossFit message board. PH seems to have some issues, or perhaps, me Lindsay, the founder and several other people are wrong. Whether that is accurate is for y'all to decide, I just wanted my full accounting here. If I could make one suggestion: I'd make it mandatory that people operate with real identities, that you verify those identifies in some way. People are pretty bold and prone to outrageous behavior when they are operating anonymously.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on January 12, 2012
at 05:53 AM

Context really IS everything isn't it? Well played.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on January 12, 2012
at 06:53 AM

no tar and feathering from me either (and I love tar and feathering). Crowd sourcing means crazies are supposed to be able to have a voice and then get downvoted, but at that point that craziness has annoyed users and generated more craziness. PH has moved more towards moderation since that FB message from Patrik.

C145035bde13d07121c54da046128cc1

(1549)

on January 12, 2012
at 05:26 AM

Let the tar and feathering begin.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 12, 2012
at 05:45 PM

@Robb, thanks for coming to PH to clarify your comments. I hope some of those who saw your tweets will come for the whole story too. I wouldn't mind using my full name at all, but that requirement might scare off some who are worried about how people will react to their questions and ideas. In the long run, I'd rather see us encourage the shyer community members and rein in the bold when needed. The worst thing that happens that way is that we read some things we don't like.

A7768b6c6be7f5d6acc76e5efa66464c

on January 12, 2012
at 07:12 PM

But down-voting costs reputation points--so there is a built-in disincentive to down-vote. I guess that's to prevent people from down-voting people simply because they don't like them, or based on personality rather than the content of the posting, but still....

07ca188c8dac3a17f629dd87198d2098

(7970)

on January 12, 2012
at 05:57 AM

We (for some value of "we") still love you, Robb. No tar & feathers from me.

C145035bde13d07121c54da046128cc1

(1549)

on January 12, 2012
at 07:35 PM

Just my thought, it might be good it might be terrible. it did improve thing's at CF.com for a time and if you are police/mil etc it's easy to have a back-end verification to provide some anonymity. I see this discussion as essentially about tradeoffs. Ironically this is the very concept folks tend to miss when talking about nutrition, politics etc. Once you are proficient in the core material, are you able to articulate the cost/benefits of a given approach or action? this is self-governance story. HOW do y'all want this community to grow and thrive?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 12, 2012
at 03:47 PM

Thanks for this answer, and it brings up a very interesting issue. Mandating real identities is both good and bad. It would severely cut down on the wacko posts, but might also discourage some people who are concerned about privacy and other issues from posting. Also, there is an ease of accessibility issue. There's no right answer, but there is definitely room for some positive change. Having scoured paleohacks way too much, I've seen a lot of things that could be improved. It might be cool to have an Amazon type thing with...

Baa413654789b57f3579474ca7fa43d7

(2349)

on January 13, 2012
at 02:30 PM

Robb, this is not meant as any type of disrespect or attack. But, you do know you have threads on your own website forum that are pretty loony too. For example, a thread where people discuss eating roadkill: http://robbwolf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1493&p=22998 I would think this reflects on you more than anything at PH. Maybe you don't monitor it, but it seems funny to ding PH when your own website has similar content.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 13, 2012
at 04:08 PM

There's rarely enough scope to give a full answer with all the respective context, which leads to multiple 'right' answers being put forward while people argue at cross-purposes when actually there's very little difference in their underlying philosophies. There ought to be more editing of answers to expand them rather than comments simply disagreeing, but then you don't gain reputation for improving other people's answers. A truer wiki-like approach with a single 'answer' and an attendant discussion page may be a better way to filter or present cumulative knowledge.

A7768b6c6be7f5d6acc76e5efa66464c

on January 12, 2012
at 12:26 PM

Nice response Mr. Wolf. I support the "real identity" suggestion. I have a long-standing personal policy of only writing (anything) under my real, full name. Why? Because I recognized my own propensity to get snarky and say things I would NEVER say to someone face to face--nor want showing up attributed to me on a Google search--possibly of a future employer, or someone from another important real-world relationship. I realize there are times when one has a legit privacy concern (particularly with health/illness) but workable solutions exist for the OCCASIONAL need for anonymity.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 12, 2012
at 03:50 PM

..."verified identities" amongst the other unverified ones. It gives extra credence to the views of real people, which is sometimes beneficial. But I haven't really seen much in the way of misogyny, compared to other boards. In fact, there were a few months when it seemed dozens of women on paleohacks were getting to know each other through comments and interpersonal emails, providing support for one another, and discussing women's issues quite frequently. I've had the pleasure of communicating with a few through email and facebook, and have never had so many 40ish year mothers as friends :)

A45af235ed4dd0b4f548c59e91b75763

(1936)

on January 12, 2012
at 10:26 PM

I feel that an open and free environment like PH is always going to have a fair share of craziness, that comes along with the territory. However slogging through some poo poo for the genuine brilliance that comes from that mass majority of posters is well worth it. I have never run into anything on PH that was all that awful to be honest, mostly just worth a good chuckle and move on. Then again, I’m not trying to make a living on the reputability of the paleo lifestyle.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on January 14, 2012
at 04:37 AM

Weeeee...let the January meeting of the woman hater's man club come to order....come on alfalfa! Get er done!

F0e558010a2ecb31fa37b7c491596b8e

(3850)

on January 12, 2012
at 06:06 PM

Posting under your real name may cut down on some of the undesirable stuff a little, but not entirely. The problem is that lots of people don't think there is anything wrong with what they post/their attitude/their treatment of others and will not be deterred by using their real name. It will, however, hamper the discussion somewhat, because lots of other people will stop posting personal experiences out of fear of being googled. It's better to encourage downvoting as a means of enhanced moderation.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on January 14, 2012
at 04:40 AM

ALRIGHTY ALL PALEO HACKERS COME TO ORDER NOW!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBIC8JTQMMQ

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on January 18, 2012
at 09:35 PM

I am glad that Robb provided an answer here cuz I have nothing to hide. All of what I communicated with him over FB, I have also communicated with the Paleo community at large.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 12, 2012
at 02:25 PM

Fringe groups always attract the disenfranchised, thats the reality, and it has nothing to do with paleo per se, only outsider type thinking. If one wants to disassociate from the crazies, that needs to be a publicly stated and unambigous statement about what paleo really is, and what it isnt, and what is normal in this group, and what _isnt_ normal, rather than targeting a single public website which in fact looks worse to image. Wherever fringe groups gather, meet or talk, the disenfranchised will come - hence the need to address the issue front on, rather than duck and dodge. My 2c...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on June 12, 2012
at 02:24 PM

Fringe groups always attract the disenfranchised, thats the reality, and it has nothing to do with paleo per se, only outsider thinking. If one wants to disassociate from the crazies, that needs to be a publicly stated and unambigous statement about what paleo really is, and what it isnt, and what is _normal_ in this group, and what isnt normal, rather than targeting a single public website. Wherever they fringe groups gather, meet or talk, the disenfranchised will come - hence the need to address the issue front on, rather than duck and dodge !

2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on June 13, 2013
at 11:59 PM

"Apparently some guys were saying something to the effect that if women could not breast feed they should not reproduce." That isn't a misogynist statement.

23
Medium avatar

(12379)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:23 AM

I think he's partly right. There's some dodgy stuff that goes on around here sometimes. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of great information and opinions here but there's a lot of junk and negativity also. There it's also the issue of sheer volume - there's a freaking heap of posts on ph, you practically need 4 hours a day sometimes to keep up with all the answers and comments.

Robb is entitled to his thoughts and opinions, and I don't think he was bashing, I think it sounded more like joking.

Medium avatar

(12379)

on January 11, 2012
at 04:22 PM

I've read a bunch of the subsequent twatting that's been going on and it seems so juvenile to me "BUUUUT you saaaaid this...and then yoooooou saaaid that...." we need a lunch monitor to sort it all out!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:11 AM

No, I mean the ongoing conversation within the last 30 minutes and there was no evidence of joking on either side.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:01 AM

Not joking. The ongoing conversation is serious and sincere.

Medium avatar

(12379)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:08 AM

I disagree I read his tweets which had emoticons in them as tongue in cheek. There were many worse things said by others, some of which I agree with, some I don't.

21
93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:33 AM

I'll take a stab at this -- here's hoping I don't regret this.

WRT Robb Wolf -- I don't know him well, but have spoken on the phone once or twice and emailed a few times. I have recommended his books and blog numerous times. (My mom especially liked his book.)

He kindly had Cate Shanahan guest-post a blog post on iron in infant formulas that Cate researched & wrote at my urging.

See here: http://robbwolf.com/2011/12/20/iron-fortified-infant-cereal-a-formula-for-health-problems/

Robb has always come across as both a stand-up & very smart guy, so I very openly say that I was disappointed that he is not a fan of PaleoHacks.

C'est la vie.

I have asked him for concrete suggestions as to how he would make things better at PaleoHacks -- at the time of this writing, haven't heard much other than he will try to spend some more time here. <--- which would be great as I welcome smart & talented people of Robb's ilk.

Onto PaleoHacks....

One has to accept that PaleoHacks is simultaneously an awesome and not-so-awesome place.

First, The Awesome:

I have been in awe at some of the much more intelligent & informed people than I on PH sharing their interpretations vis-a-vis a paleo paradigm of the various data available to us. Personally, I have learned much & try to keep an open mind. Watching people's & the community's view(s) evolve over time has been especially fascinating.

Thank you for your participation. Keep on keepin' on. You all make PaleoHacks awesome and I am grateful.

Now, The Not-So-Awesome:

There are a few nutcases amongst you. I don't know why this is -- this could be the nature of the internet or something about Paleo brings out the nutjobs. I have expressed my concerns about you privately in emails to some of the Paleo leaders and others -- as I have publicly:

from http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=48c5aee421576df1d6f5c8e45&id=9135210d47

(the now emergent gratuitous Paleo re-enactment fetishists must be starved of attention as well as their snake-oil selling jump-on-the-Paleo-bandwagon-brethren)

Let me make clear: my definition of nutjob has nothing to do with your interpretation of Paleo be it Sissonian, Wolfian, Taubesian, Harrisian or Nikoleyian than it has to do with your behavior and how you frame your arguments.

Those of you who have flagrantly broken the community rules I tend to find & suspend or delete. There are some that flirt at the edge of the rules and the only reason I don't delete them is that I don't want to delete anyone b/c of ideology.

Believe you me -- there are many people whose POVs I think are flat out wrong, but I would not delete because their behavior doesn't merit it.

My hope, and this may be a very naive hope, is that the PaleoHacks community "punishes" both bad behavior and stupidity.

Random thought: What I find interesting about PaleoHacks, as an experiment in crowdsourcing, is that it may threaten the Paleo gurus' influence -- but then, see how I feel about Paleo gurus here:

http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=48c5aee421576df1d6f5c8e45&id=7740a2bd8f

Last thought:

Net-net I think PaleoHacks is a massive force for good, and the awesome FAAARRRR outweighs the not-so-awesome. Thanks again for being a part of this.

NB: My mods and I do our very best to moderate fairly. I am sure if we have dinged you, deleted you or suspended you -- you probably feel that I am big, massive jerk. Which I probably am.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 11, 2012
at 09:12 AM

No, you are not a big, massive jerk. The feeling of awe when you *dinged* me is something I will always remember.

0e395acc856e3353f3f5892e6b09b0e7

(1227)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:27 PM

I am grateful for all that you and the other moderators do. I keep coming back day after to day to see what and who are new in the PH world. I'm learning and discerning more all the time.

19
98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

on January 11, 2012
at 02:37 AM

What I know of Robb Wolf is that he is a decent, kind and humble man. Paleo babby jesus perhaps but still a very human man. I think his recent actions show a huge lapse in judgment and he owes Patrik an apology. In starting and growing this site Patrik has earned the right to be shown respect and I don't blame him to being hurt and angry and calling Robb out on it. (I hate to admit this but I especially loved the slam on G2C. Classic!)

It's been a rough couple of days in the paleoshere but I'm excited to see the fruits that come from the recent discord. From trouble times can come great things and I believe that is what will happen. I am thrilled to hear Robb commit to spending more time here. We are already lucky to have several "distinguished" members active in this community and the more they participate the better IMO. I am always thrilled to read answers and comments from Paul Jaminet, Ron Rosedale, Dr. Cate, Masterjohn, and Evelyn (who I disagree with most vehemently but I appreciate her bravery in standing her ground even while being pummeled) and many others who pop in from time to time. I wish they would do it more frequently. It might be interesting to find out why they don't (if there is a reason) so that the site could become a more hospitable place for them?

The site has been a bit bogged down in the past few months with somewhat inane questions and answers that seem to come from a few with nothing better to do with their time. Non-answer answers I would call them. We definitely have our share of rep point whores and I think they've added to the decline of the quality of the site which lead to this outburst of criticism. I feel like I'm on MDA sometimes (which is not to slam that site at all but it is decidedly different in function than this one.) At any rate, this criticism can be put to good use (on both sides of the rift) and as long as people don't dig in their heels and live in their angry place I feel certain it will be.

6714718e2245e5190017d643a7614157

on January 11, 2012
at 02:47 AM

ShaBam! ShaBam! ShaBam!

Medium avatar

(12379)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:41 AM

Rep point whores! Hahaha I love it!

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on January 11, 2012
at 03:58 PM

I was going to comment about rep whores but am distracted by tube tops.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:51 AM

looking at your rep points total, you might as well be working the block in nothing but a g-string and tube top...

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:37 AM

I didn't slam Robb & what is G2C?

Medium avatar

(19469)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:55 PM

Who you callin a rep point whore?! 50k FTW!

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on January 11, 2012
at 10:02 PM

LOL! Hey I used to actully give thougtful,helpful answers until I became bitter and disillusioned. Now I just stick to making nasty comments and I'm hell bent on "giving" all my points away before I die. Yep. I'm a giver.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:15 PM

WTH? Patrik nowhere in my response did I say you slammed Robb. I said you slammed G2C and your response to her can't be characterized as anything but a slam. And it was excellent.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on January 11, 2012
at 09:43 AM

G2C = gone2croatan : https://twitter.com/#!/robbwolf/status/156487786323656704

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on January 11, 2012
at 02:42 AM

Just when I think I have you figured out, you write something that makes sense. Always keeping me guessing

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:31 AM

Sure your points are great, but where's your gold badge? ;)

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:01 AM

Now you're just being a comment points whore. That's fine. Make fun. I know where to find you.

18
F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:06 AM

I saw the Twittering going back and forth, and had a few thoughts. The first of which was I get where they're coming from, and they deserve to blow off some steam.

The second was, "Yeah, well PH is made up of those who participate. So if you don't participate, then do you get to complain?" You know. The usual democracy/no-voting-no-whinging rule.

The third was that these were prominent Paleo folks, and as a plebeian, it made me feel a bit looked down upon. Like, who are they coaching to greatness if not those of us in the great, unwashed masses? It seemed like a bit of bad PR.

But I also think that hacking is what they do professionally all day long, and I certainly wouldn't expect them to waste their spare time here.

18
0004cc2109ce696bf528b01592229a03

(310)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:40 AM

Ha! Lurker!!! How does he know what goes on here at PH??! I'll bet you a filet mignon that ALL of the paleo biggies lurk at PH.

14
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on January 11, 2012
at 06:21 AM

I liked how one person said something about how they never go here anymore. I checked- they do come here pretty regularly :)

Otherwise, who cares? I mean, crowdsourcing has quality issues and we all know that. If you are offended by stuff easily, crowd-sourced sites are not for you.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 05:26 PM

I asked for that too, but as I have some familiarity with research I must concede we wouldn't be a random sample so any surveys would only represent opinions within PH and that's fine with me.

C074eec3b3c0325ef3018a128111823a

(1012)

on January 11, 2012
at 09:48 AM

crowd-sourcing has benefits too, that we could seek to bring to the fore better. It's not like PH and TPS podcast serve the same purpose in the same way, they're entirely different animals. I'd like to see PH used for meaningful survey-style polling of the community to find what works or doesn't on a more collective basis

13
64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:49 AM

I have a lot of respect for Robb and all that he does in the community. Like anywhere else on the internet the surfer has to use some power of discrimination when looking for answers.

Aside from PH, I don't think there are very many other places with the sheer volume of links to scientific studies, or contrasting views on opinion-based answers.

Fish oil, for example, was something that Robb suggested taking extremely high doses of, and has since backed off on those recommendations. On here, there were people that brought up the possible downsides of too many PUFAs back when the other people were taking 5-10g/day.

12
Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on January 11, 2012
at 03:31 PM

I agree, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I understand tired, I understand overwhelmed, I understand frustrated.. sometimes things break. But you also don't want to bite the hand that feeds you, so being thoughtful about anything - be it written or verbal - is a very important factor. If anything from a pioneer or supporter is disparaging, the momentum for growth stalls. The Paleoleos are still new enough that people definitely categorize the lifestyle into something along the lines of daywalking gingers. South Park anyone? Basically, whackadoos who run barefoot and eat branches with a side of something raw.

There most definitely has been a shift in PH since I joined over.. summer? Note: I found by searching le interwebs for who Paleo knows what. The moderators do such a good job, please note that they have a life outside of PH, but yes.. things filter through that I've seen eleven-seventy times. Instead of the Search field being used, duplicate or near duplicate posts are creating, which I feel dilutes the knowledge pool. Instead of answering to something existing, perhaps growing that threat and enriching it, now there's another thing to search through. Replies that have no content - why reply if you're not going to be thoughtful? And yes I can see how a post asking to Hack my Curly Eyebrow Hair or Why is a hair growing out of my mole? would make anyone think its a tad crazytown. Google is your friend.

There is an insanely huge amount of talent that frequent PH, you know who you are, and it makes me very happy that I am learning, and entertained, by these people. I don't want to lose that.

I think everyone needs to forget what happened, seriously - what's done is done, and all the players involved have learned a valuable lesson that they will do nothing but grow from.

Be kind, rewind ya'll.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:36 PM

Google is your friend. Amen.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 11, 2012
at 10:22 PM

For those who have posted duplicate or near duplicate questions, I wonder how many intentionally skipped the search function. After all, how is one to gain rep points if their questions are already answered? Although it would water down the value of the voting system to a degree, perhaps PH should rep points to those those who use the search function or FAQ to deter this practice.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 12, 2012
at 06:26 PM

With that being said, I doubt its a realistic idea as many PH'ers cherish their points and probably wouldn't want to do anything to potentially devalue their stats or status. (Maybe I’m off-base with that assumption?). Keep in mind, this idea is coming from someone who doesn’t quite “get” the fascination with the points. If rep points granted PH’ers access to premium content or other perks I would “get it”, but until these points can be turned-in for credit towards grass-fed beef I'll be content with my 200+ :) – Craig 0 secs ago

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 12, 2012
at 06:23 PM

@jesuisjuba - I think you have a solid approach to things here on PH. I really don't like the idea of rewarding people for NOT being dense, but I think the extra rep points for utilizing the search function would serve its purpose for some.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:47 PM

Google is your friend is the big takeaway.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 11, 2012
at 10:20 PM

For those who have posted duplicate or near duplicate questions, I wonder how many intentionally skip the search function. After all, how is one to gain rep points if their questions are already answered? Although it would water down the value of up-votes to a degree, perhaps PH should give up-votes for those using the search function or FAQ to deter this practice.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 12, 2012
at 06:25 PM

With that being said, I doubt its a realistic idea as many PH'ers cherish their points and probably wouldn't want to do anything that would potentially devalue their stats or status. (Maybe I’m off-base with that assumption?). Keep in mind, this idea is coming from someone who doesn’t quite “get” the fascination with the points. If rep points granted PH’ers access to premium content or other perks I would “get it”, but until these points can be turned-in for credit towards grass-fed beef I'll be content with my 200+ :)

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 11, 2012
at 10:23 PM

For those who have posted duplicate or near duplicate questions, I wonder how many intentionally skipped the search function. After all, how is one to gain rep points if their questions are already answered? Although it would water down the value of the voting system to a degree, perhaps PH should give rep points to those those who use the search function or FAQ to deter this practice.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 12, 2012
at 06:27 PM

With that being said, I doubt its a realistic idea as many PH'ers cherish their points and probably wouldn't want to do anything to potentially devalue their stats or status. (Maybe I’m off base with that assumption?). Keep in mind, this idea is coming from someone who doesn’t quite “get” the fascination with the points. If rep points granted PH’ers access to premium content or other perks I would “get it”, but until these points can be turned-in for credit towards grass-fed beef I'll be content with my 200+ :)

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on January 14, 2012
at 05:30 PM

Oh! The points are fun though :) Kind of like "yay someone got something out of my answer and gave me a present." Definitely, I don't like seeing the 12 answers and 0 points - if you take the time to answer in a positive way, then show some upvote love, as it will just encourage, I hope, people wanting to continue to to post thoughtful things. But then again I'm a crazy optimist :)

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on January 12, 2012
at 03:29 PM

Honestly @Craig I never thought of that. Lame. If you look at my profile I've only asked a few questions that became smarter as I grew more comfortable and with my knowledge and thoughtful about what I was asking. The majority of "rep points" came from simply giving good answers and such. Huh..

12
A7768b6c6be7f5d6acc76e5efa66464c

on January 11, 2012
at 01:23 PM

I'll humbly chime in with a PH newbie's reflection. I found PH because when one googles almost anything paleo, it rises close to the top in the search results. I treated the information I found here with the same caution I do with any information source.

I think it's important to recognize that, for instance, the growing number of paleo-related podcasts, just like the books and articles, are highly curated (if dreadfully engineered) products: they take write-in questions only, and have their answers researched and planned before the shows are even recorded--this is often obvious in their banter. This is quite different from participating in real time. They have a disincentive to participate here, in that giving anything less than a thoroughly researched and supported response could have an impact on their professional reputations and possibly their incomes. Their every comment will apppear in someone's Google search for who knows how long. I would probably shy away too.

PH is curated as well, after a fashion. I soon understood that a voting system was in place, and for better and worse, this influences what I read here. The truly awful/marginal questions/answers (apologies if any of these are mine) seem to drop off pretty fast, and once you get the hang of things, it starts to get pretty easy to distinguish the wheat from the chaff, if you'll pardon the expression. Increasingly, I find myself searching rather than hanging on the main page looking for new discussions--it's easier to find the really good info that way, after the community here has taken a generally decent stab at curating the material.

As a newbie, I appreciate the concerns articulated here by the much more seasoned PH folks. But I don't think this excellent resource is broken, nor its value compromised by a few possibly disparaging remarks from a few paleo luminaries. I go to their websites, listen to their podcasts, and read their books already--I'm not necessarily looking for even more from them. They represent a handful of usually reasonably well-researched and substantiated opinions, but they are also just a handful, so I can't expect everything they say or write to speak directly to me. Sometimes I need clarification, or advise on how to implement something, or just a more varied point of view. It's a lot easier to get that here, than from that small handful of paleo luminaries.

Finally, I've participated in many forums over many years now, and it's easy to recognize this pattern where the seasoned veterans begin to either chafe under the burden of managing the constant influx of newbies and their ignorance, or the desire to have the resource itself rise with them, in terms of its quality or authoritativeness. But this of course is impossible in an open forum. I thought Metafilter did a reasonable job with this, in the hoops one had to go through, and the limitations imposed on how often one could post. These measures keep the forum open, but also make users much more thoughtful about if and when to post.

I haven't quite figured out to what extent similar measures are already in use here, but as a new uer, I would not object to stricter limits to my participation until some condition was met. I would even pay a modest fee ("donation") to gain privileges like posting. This alone weeds out a lot of undesirable material, in my estimation. I know others might reasonably disagree with me on that, and wouldn't be surprised if such ideas have been considered, and perhaps dismissed, but I throw it out there, for what little it may be worth.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 05:16 PM

I enjoyed reading your viewpoint, Christopher IMO it's worth much.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 12, 2012
at 04:48 PM

This is very valuable feedback.

F0e558010a2ecb31fa37b7c491596b8e

(3850)

on January 12, 2012
at 05:52 PM

I'm relatively new myself and I agree with all of your points, including limits to participation. I commented about this earlier on the "how to improve PH" thread, that having a waiting period before being allowed to ask a question would help to reduce a lot of the the duplicate questions. I'd be concerned about the fee-based model, not because I don't think a site like this deserves some finaincial support from the users, but because once someone pays for the "right" to post, it become a lot harder to yank their privlideges when it may be warranted.

12
C074eec3b3c0325ef3018a128111823a

(1012)

on January 11, 2012
at 09:36 AM

Put yourself in Robb's shoes for a moment..

(hmm.. quite roomy in here, and I already have big goddamn feet)

now, for a moment more, assume that, by magic, there were no nutcases on PH - varying opinions of course, but everyone able to express those opinions and have them changed in civil discourse..

(aaah, that's better, I could get used to this)

Now, as Robb, how do you answer a question without either:

  • totally dominating other answers just because of the name, to the detriment of other valuable contributions and essentially defeating the purpose of growing a community
  • causing threads to explode with inordinate amounts of discussion and analysis and minutiae

Not saying it can't be done, but I can't blame him for some trepidation about damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't, even in such an idealised world.

Ok, moment over.

(aw, i was enjoying that!)

Hidden in here is a legitimate meta question for PH as to how it would meaningfully handle rational discourse with a 'superstar' who would quickly (and deservedly) earn essentially unlimited rep with active participation, whether Robb or any other. Perhaps we may get the chance to find out.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:03 PM

Those are really key points.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:34 PM

I dunno. Ron Rosedale -- admittedly not a Paleo Guru, but still quite the public figure -- has participated in extensive discussions here, and I think it's been all to the good. I mean, I understand your concerns, but I think it's more likely that ongoing participation by bigwigs would result in less awe and hero-worship, and more familiarity. A good thing, in other words.

10
8e3782b68e033763485472f414f507a5

(2433)

on January 11, 2012
at 12:18 PM

The better question to me is why are his tweets linked on PH's front page? Is the idea to incite drama? To get the PH community to lash out against Robb's opinions?

The reaction seems pretty childish to me. Your prized website was criticized, Patrick. Big deal.

9
7c9f81d68c78de1a31eab9c91c17b4b8

on January 11, 2012
at 06:04 AM

I think he's entitled to his opinion and Patrik reacted with his usual ad hominem emotionality. ( I was not real keen on the drinking koolaid comment.)

This is a web-site. It's not a PR platform. It's not a networking mecca. Sometimes I think people want it to be more.

I have loved this site--I learn a ton being on it but the self-indulgent under-tones and ego wear on me. While at the same time I'm really grateful, I sometimes feel like saying..."get over yourselves and deal with it."

Somebody posed a criticism. That's life.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:36 AM

Please be clear: my Kool-Aid comment was directed at Kruse and his disciple -- not Robb.

7c9f81d68c78de1a31eab9c91c17b4b8

on January 11, 2012
at 05:43 PM

I was clear on that.

9
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:58 AM

@Beth-WM and @Dave S and others, I enjoy PH and its format so much I drop in several times per day to see what's up. I used to love to jump into some of the spirited discussions but it seems a little slow right now although there's plenty of lively debated around re: the Trap article.

That said, some of the recent questions deserve criticism in my opinion. There are some questions that don't seem to reflect any awareness of the FAQs. They ask about things that have nothing to do with this lifestyle or the questions just seem political or divisive, designed either to criticize members of the paleo community or the lifestyle itself.

I think it's fine to disagree on the best approach, or ask questions about the practical implementations of various suggestions; that just shows an independent mind. There are so many possibilities that we should never run out of things to explore and form opinions about.

But if people just want to attack others for their opinions, or style of presentation, that will shut down the creativity of discussions. And if some want to be handed perfect answers without effort on their part, especially if they don't want to give and take about various options and rationales, then it becomes an empty exercise in giving pat answers. And those who want more than that will drift away or visit less frequently. In that event the black hole comment Robb made wouldn't be all that wrong.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 04:08 AM

You're right, Matthew. I think I was guilty on that one at times and I skip more questions now and try to focus my answers better when I do respond. To achieve a valuable exchange requires thought and consideration on both sides but it's worth the effort.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 04:04 AM

You're right, Matthew. I think I was guilty on that one at times and I currently skip questions on which I have no expertise and try to focus my answers better when I do respond. I think the voting helps teach how well we do on that over time too.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:40 AM

I think it is true that some want to be handed perfect answers without effort when they could often easily use google to find the answer. However this site works at its best when contributors take the time to carefully read and understand the question at hand, think about it and then give clear and informative answers. I think that one good answer that is informative and has some thought put into it is worth more than a dozen brief, hastily typed answers.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:00 AM

I agree 200 percent!

8
Medium avatar

(2301)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:59 PM

who cares?

..........here are some dots because I have to type 15 characters.

Medium avatar

(2301)

on January 11, 2012
at 08:02 PM

p.s. I love you guys even if Robb Wolf doesn't. <3

A45af235ed4dd0b4f548c59e91b75763

(1936)

on January 12, 2012
at 10:44 PM

See.. this is the kind of post that caused the whole problem. Who cares? What kind of thing is that to say? ;)

Medium avatar

(2301)

on January 13, 2012
at 05:26 PM

7 other people don't care either :P lol

7
F6ea948ab43dc51d72509c0989e670fe

(1639)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:54 AM

I was actually part of the twitter discussion [@BarbarianOgre]. I talked to Patrik a bit about it, and realized that maybe it's just time to bring it out in the open. It's not like I'm Robb Wolf or anything. Just a casual bystander with an opinion :)

My take on it (and I'm seeing some agreement on this thread in different ways) is that the discussions over the last couple months have changed. I admit the crossfit threads always seem to push my buttons. But maybe that's just me? I swear that we seem a bit more casual about the stupidity over the last couple months.

Maybe it's just the fact that after US News and world reports, AHS and such that we have so many new people that the whole idea of paleohacks is changing.

I admit, it's not like the regular paleo blogosphere is innocent of any of this.It seems like all I see over is drama drama drama over different sorts of carbs and such.

Not to mention the whole vegetarian thing. While the thread is a lot calmer than I remember, I still don't think we're respectful to our neighbors. Or at times, even people who are part of the community.

http://paleohacks.com/questions/51442/compassionate-paleo/51508#51508

http://paleohacks.com/questions/56799/mingers-talk-why-cant-we-all-get-along-similarities-between-veggies-and-paleo#axzz1j3ucyZyB

I'm sorry if this is all my imagination. That we, are, in fact, a community working towards something better. I would hope that we could see paleo become common knowledge and that we (paleohacks) would be a supportive community in that process of growing.

So my resolution? To be less of a complainer, and spend time here making sure I help in creating this community.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on January 11, 2012
at 03:43 PM

Thanks Jake. Given I'm vegetarian, I obviously don't like the veggie bashing at. Unless someone is vegan of course :-)

F6ea948ab43dc51d72509c0989e670fe

(1639)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:54 PM

Aravind -- not at you, certainly. I just think that at times, we're [this is some to most of paleohacks] is not very nice to vegetarians, or vegans. Yeah, some of them aren't eating optimally. That doesn't mean we can't be respectful of their beliefs.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on January 11, 2012
at 12:35 PM

Jake - since you reference one of my answers above, can you please clarify your answer. I'm trying figure who you are directing the "don't think we are respectful to our neighbors" comment. Thanks

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:34 AM

Thanks Jake. Much appreciated.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 05:24 PM

@Aravind, one widespread assumption I don't swallow whole is that there were no fruit/veggie-loving ancient humans. If not, why do I love fruit so much? Somebody with a "fruit tooth" and "starch/greens tooth" must have reproduced at some point so we'll all in this together, right? Okay, I thrive on meat too but that doesn't make you wrong in ANY way as long as you're pleased with your health.

F6ea948ab43dc51d72509c0989e670fe

(1639)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:57 PM

I know it took a lot of bravery to come [out of the closet, if you will?] and I'm always very respectful of your opinion because of that. I just remember those 2 threads being a lot more...mean...if you catch my drift. Either my opinion is jaded or a lot of stuff has been re-written.

F6ea948ab43dc51d72509c0989e670fe

(1639)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:08 AM

I'm sure of it. *shivers*.

F6ea948ab43dc51d72509c0989e670fe

(1639)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:57 PM

You're welcome, Patrik.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:03 PM

Good points Jake. My second question ever on paleohacks was about compassion and vegetarianism, and I got absolutely torn apart! It's always a touchy issue and becomes easily devolved...http://paleohacks.com/questions/9826/paleo-vs-vegetarian-a-question-of-optimal-health-vs-evolved-compassion

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on January 11, 2012
at 06:56 AM

You would be frightened at the number of questions we've deleted that serve no purpose other than trollbaiting and smugness against veg*ns.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on January 11, 2012
at 03:44 PM

Just kidding about the vegans!

7
C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on January 11, 2012
at 01:24 AM

Robb Who?

I Like being a I hole. Its a new badge I can wear in my pursuit of obnoxiousness.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:36 AM

it should be a badge

6
Medium avatar

on January 11, 2012
at 09:57 PM

I count myself among those who:

  1. Have never met or corresponded with Robb Wolf.

  2. Could not care less what Robb Wolf thinks about what appears at PH.

  3. Do not have any problem with Robb Tweeting his opinions about PH.

  4. Do not consider Robb Wolf "family" simply because I find his book remarkably good and his work overall to be a force for the good, in the world at large.

I do care what Vanna White thinks about PH. Why oh why does she remain silent?

Ca2c940a1947e6200883908592956680

(8574)

on January 11, 2012
at 11:30 PM

I gave up waiting for Bridget Fonda to post about her triglycerides months ago.

6
A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:26 AM

The information here varies widely in it's quality. But the general consensus way in which PH works (voting/reputation) helps to bring the smarter viewpoints to the top. We can still make the errors of "paleo conventional wisdom", however. If you want really good info, you have to look at research yourself, rather than asking here. But if you need a good recipe for wings, well just ask.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on January 11, 2012
at 06:38 AM

Ehhh, fun/funny/smartassishness gets the most + votes, a lot of great stuff is pushed down because it didn't have a Dr Seuss 'ring' to it

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:42 PM

That's a key point, which explains most of my reputation!

4
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:28 AM

Kresser has said less-than-praising things before, too.

Anyhow, I like that today in his podcast wolf mentions how he's seeing success with a classic bodybuilder approach of lower fat, higher carb and higher protein just done with paleo food items. Bunch of us been saying this for the past year.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:04 AM

Not only do they dole it out, they point to it as THE TRUTH and seem unwilling to consider ant other way They've become just as dogmatic as CW. A true paleohacker only cares about the science and is open to what works.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:59 PM

Okay, that's it! My dog is doing a leptin reset!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:50 PM

I keep trying to get my cat to IF, but if I don't feed her, she is super naughty. Knocking stuff off of counters, getting into the trash, etc. etc.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:18 AM

Tru [email protected]!$ I love it when people give measured answers "Well, my experience was this, but evidence points to this, and your mileage may vary". That kind of stuff gets me excited. Maybe I should be a librarian or an actuary.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

@Dave S Haha! I have a chubby cat that needs one. She keeps eating the other cat's food so he's lean and she's plump.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:33 AM

Kamal, http://assets.flavorwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/zack.jpg

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on January 11, 2012
at 09:21 PM

true paleohacker = actuary. hell yes.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 11, 2012
at 03:02 AM

Maybe that's the problem. People around here dole out advice based on what worked for them In their own specific situation and circumstances and seem to think everybody and their dog should only do it that way, regardless of the other folk's current situation.

4
7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 11, 2012
at 01:26 AM

I've enjoyed hanging out here the last several months. But I've certainly wondered ... why don't some of paleo's names hang out here too?

Perish the thought ... but perhaps the whole concept of community based on rep points is not the best system?

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 11, 2012
at 02:40 AM

Well, Melissa is practically an owner. I cannot recall the last comment here from J Stanton, Paul is infrequent, and, well let's just say I wouldn't exactly ask Evelyn for a PH reference!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:50 PM

@Dave S, OR maybe Quilt is tired of being jumped on by people who don't like his ad lib writing style? Rather than looking for his message they cut and jab at his punctuation, articulation, etc.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on January 11, 2012
at 01:56 PM

To "hang out here" can take suck a lot of time from your day. Sisson and Wolf are very busy people who make a living from paleo/primal. I can't imagine that they have a lot of time to spare. I note that now that Dr. Kruse has a blog and devotees - he posts here much less.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on January 11, 2012
at 07:39 AM

Beth's question is a good one -- why don't the big names hang out? I am some theories. ;)

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:32 AM

Except some names DO come. Melissa HGL, J Stanton, Evelyn Carbsane and Paul Jaminet comment occasionally and Quilt is here frequently.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 11, 2012
at 10:52 PM

But most of the folks in the original Twitter discussion commented about the (perceived) low signal-to-noise ratio. I'm not sure why this would be different from the comments on their blogs, but it seems that they see a big difference in the quality (or quantity?) of the discourse.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 11, 2012
at 02:09 AM

A testament to the truth of "I've enjoyed hanging out here the last several months."

F5f742cc9228eb5804114d0f3be4e587

(7660)

on January 11, 2012
at 02:08 AM

Says she with the shiny gold badge. ;)

2
Cf4576cbcc44fc7f2294135609bce9e5

on January 11, 2012
at 06:38 PM

yea rob is family and im glad for it

1
81cf1892bafcdfa38779f4b9b488198d

(606)

on January 12, 2012
at 03:10 PM

It is what it is...everyone has to decide for themselves what they won't to go with being right and wrong...Sometimes this site is a good place to come for a good laugh...at other times it can be useful...go with your gut, do some research, and remember this is a forum where not every answer you find is 100% correct. It's people trying to help people which is a good thing. When you do something new it's always good if you have a form of support.

0
D2b653e1bb95489af69ece6182abec48

(375)

on February 16, 2013
at 04:06 PM

Intellectually varied maybe, but not a black hole. Knowledge does make it out of this place, and that's one reason that I began a Paleo diet. When I was burning out on normal, crappy food, I'd search google for various foods or chemicals that might be making me feel bad. Often enough, I found the best answers here on Paleohacks, and eventually I adopted the Paleo dietary viewpoint. Sure, there's some nonsense and trolling, but there's enough well-reasoned, scientifically-based content to make a difference in people's opinions and habits (or mine at least, and I'm a scientist). I think Robb's fear of trolls or sociopaths scaring his clients away is a bit unfortunate.

Ed7403e397077dd1acdbf25c7f6e56ce

(3452)

on February 16, 2013
at 10:21 PM

I'd say he was referring to the closed-minded, dogmatic element that's present here. That attitude is more suggestive of an 'intellectual black hole'. After hearing him interviewed, I couldn't help but think of all the 'not Paleo' feedback he would get if he anonymously posted here.

0
Ed7403e397077dd1acdbf25c7f6e56ce

on February 16, 2013
at 03:26 PM

I see what he's saying, for sure. Moderator control comes dangerously close to censoring alternate points of view. In general, disagreements are handled with entirely unproductive hostility.

Seems like not enough people are capable of just ignoring what they don't approve of.

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