4

votes

[META] Is PaleoHacks a place where one should try to meld politics + Paleo?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created July 22, 2011 at 10:34 PM

What place does political discussion have on PaleoHacks? Does eating Paleo pre-dispose one to lean any one way on PaleoHacks?

Melissa: I am bumping this again because I've seen several political questions today.

1ccc0b0b7a756cd42466cef8f450d0cb

(1801)

on February 02, 2012
at 01:27 PM

+1 Excellent demonstration of Godwin's Law.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 27, 2011
at 01:17 AM

oooooh, goodie!

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on July 25, 2011
at 01:23 AM

You got it P - you got upvoted for that pronouncement - So I guess you are not alone in wanting me gone (Can't imagine I offended anyone, sorry to those who were!) Bye! PS I have 2 kids, the sleep thing DOES get better :) Hang in there P!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 25, 2011
at 12:21 AM

I upvoted you @patrik. Cuz I'm all sweet like that. Mwah!

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 24, 2011
at 11:29 PM

@Baconbitch @meredith -- good-bye.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 24, 2011
at 09:19 PM

I love you @Mer :)

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on July 24, 2011
at 08:19 PM

Seriously? Patrik, I read nothing, nothing at all here that should have been taken with any amount of offense. Maybe I am misreading your response, but I can't but feel like you are going for a verbal "slap in the face." Taking the subject matter out of it, you are coming across like a Daddy who likes his kids to be seen and not heard. Only a few reactions can come from this - out and out rebellion, or a total retreat. I am not the rebellious type. You have attracted a lovely group of people here. I wish I could pack 'em all up and take them with me.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 24, 2011
at 07:53 PM

@Patrik: Someday, dear, perhaps you'll be able to converse in a non-defensive and intellectual way. Until then, I bid thee farewell :)

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 24, 2011
at 07:47 PM

@baconbitch - 2) I, personally, have done much more to liberate speech & information wrt Paleo than you ever will --- implying that the way I run the community is somehow anti-free speech or anti-information is beyond nonsense, it is insulting. You're not "old skool internets" -- you are simply a knee-jerk anti-conventionalist as your blog makes it clear.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 24, 2011
at 07:44 PM

@baconbitch -- 1) you are right, in highly structured and formalized situation, politics can be non-partisan i.e. your example of Oxford debates is spot-on -- BUT GUESS WHAT? THIS ISN'T A FORUM LIKE THAT! [*facepalm]

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 24, 2011
at 04:52 AM

Ditto that, hon.

Medium avatar

(2169)

on July 24, 2011
at 03:02 AM

Maybe move the FAQ to its own bar next to "questions, tags, users, badges, unanswered" I may have read it a few months ago, but forgot it was there, and didn't see it when I looked for it earlier. Maybe put it in a more prominent location?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 24, 2011
at 02:54 AM

@Tartare - there are some of us that "get" what you're saying. Some of us are having a great time discussing it elsewhere. We actually understand the difference between policy and politics and have the capacity to disagree without inflammatory remarks. You know, basic intellect and logic :) CaveRat and I would love for you to get your arse over there. You know how to find us!

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 24, 2011
at 02:52 AM

You might want to check out the FAQ. Which I will update later tonight.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 24, 2011
at 01:12 AM

I thought *my* thread was pretty good, too :-). Too bad you missed it - I put more work into it than I should have, with half a dozen links and everything! Next time I'll keep a local copy, just in case - you just never know what might happen :-)

Medium avatar

(5136)

on July 23, 2011
at 11:47 PM

certain good threads, relevant to food politics specifically, (like Futureboy's question on fracking) closed down. Of course it's your site, and you can do as you please, but I disagree with the philosophy behind your thinking.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on July 23, 2011
at 11:45 PM

Nevertheless, having lived in a place where there was a food shortage due to political reasons, I understand the potential impact very well. My sister cried the first time my Mother took her to a run of the mill grocery store in America. America will not be facing any such shortage, but politics are getting weird in this country, with corporations increasingly running the game, the same corporations who are feeding us the vast majority of the "food" on our shelves. I don't think this is the appropriate forum for political discussions about other topics, but it does disappoint me when I see

Medium avatar

(5136)

on July 23, 2011
at 11:42 PM

the Iron Curtain.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on July 23, 2011
at 11:40 PM

@Jack Kronk and Futureboy - thank you guys for the very kind words! I've always deeply enjoyed reading what both of you have had to say as well. @Patrik - i never in any way whatsoever implied a comparison between what you do here and censorship of any kind, I have no idea where you read into my comments and came up with that. My point was that its been my experience that keeping on top of food politics (such as the very relevant Farm Bill Liz mentioned in the answer above) is more important than a lot of Americans realize - for entirely different reasons than it was in Eastern Europe during

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 11:35 PM

You got upvoted from me :)

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 23, 2011
at 10:40 PM

Sheesh - that's "personal" not "Persian"! Dang Apple Autocorrect.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 23, 2011
at 10:38 PM

@kamal, I'm totally with the program here, but just for the record my post - the one that was deleted - was about paleo influencing politics. It was about Persian changes and curiosity about others' experience. There was no endorsement. Maybe on the heels of Thomas' post it was seen as too much. Or maybe opening the door to the kind of bickering objected to. I'm not sure, exactly.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 23, 2011
at 10:29 PM

I don't need to beat a dead horse, but Patrik I wasn't making that comparison at ALL. Not even remotely. Neither, I think, did tartare. Nor do I even think of it/you that way, and if my comment came across that way to you, then I apologize for my inept delivery.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on July 23, 2011
at 08:49 PM

Just about all the newbies here come in heavily dogma soaked, which is fine. I have my own dogma that I fight to keep down. But Thomas is great at slapping down dogma with tinge of humor.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:30 PM

3) That's all good, man. If you're cool with people dropping off then hey - totally get it. I was just offering you another view. I'm sure you're frustrated by this as it comes through loud and clear in your writing. However, discourse is a good thing. I wasn't attacking you. Just stating my opinions :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:27 PM

@Patrik: 1) Politics is NOT always partisan. A thoughtful discussion about politics outside the context of party affiliations does not have to be incendiary. Please see Oxford Debates as a great example. Not everyone has a "stand" and a lot of us are very open to other's views. Again, the Marx/Engels discussion was NOT political. 2) We are free to have differing views. I respect your "benevolent dictator" approach despite that I feel "owning" a community's information does not promote the foundations of free speech and free information. But hey, I'm all old skool internets like that :)

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on July 23, 2011
at 07:20 PM

Just respond to my latest question about the PANTS Party and it definitely will fit!

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:18 PM

lol. that's excellent bud. i will let you know when I feel like putting crazy hindus in an answer somewhere. you never know when it might be applicable. haha.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:03 PM

@baconbitch -- 1) politics IS partisan & inflammatory, that is a fact of life. Plenty of other places it can be discussed in the context of Paleo. 2) The community creates a site for the community -- and I am the community's benevolent dictator (for better or as you might think, for worse) 3) If people drop off, then people drop off. I am not doing this for the money - so I have freedom to manage PH as I see fit.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:01 PM

Let me qualify the first sentence in paragraph 2. That wasn't directed towards Patrik rather, a general statement that politics can't be discussed in the U.S. for fear of inflammatory remarks. That makes me feel as though our people don't have the intellect for open discussion.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on July 23, 2011
at 06:59 PM

@Jack - if/when you start referring to "crazy Hindus", it's ok because everyone will know you are referring to me and since 1) it's true, and 2) we are Paleo brothers, I know you mean it as a term of endearment! The only real crazies I've been seeing lately are diet and nutrition zealots. Go figure!

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 06:47 PM

whatever. it doesn't make your crap here any more ok. and no need to let me know about any crazy jewish dudes. i don't care.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 23, 2011
at 06:40 PM

the only crazy religious people i ran into were crazy evangelical flaming tongue speaking fairytale-believing bible people, thats why. When i get preached to by crazy jewish dudes and crazy muslim dudes i'll let you know.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 23, 2011
at 06:35 PM

the purpose of my answer was directly to answer the question posed: is this a place where one should meld politics and paleo. My vote was no, as I clearly stated. I added that its a slippery slope. There was no purpose to my comment that there are crazy bible people out there other than to try and out them;) You can't see the difference between my saying "crazy bible people" versus my saying, say, "christians" generally? But yknow what? Why mince words, if you actually believe in the stories of bible you believe in fairy tales in which case you're beyond reachable anyhow, no?

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 23, 2011
at 06:28 PM

anyone who believes in some dude up in the clouds ruling shit, where he has a heaven that you go do after you die - that is fucking bonkers. how's that? Good enough?

Medium avatar

(5639)

on July 23, 2011
at 06:22 PM

Well put baconbitch.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:59 PM

I agree Ben. I like Thomas. He's really funny, but I agree with what you say here.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:54 PM

@Ben - No. Actually you are wrong. I read your comment correctly. And I only get 'excited' (if that's what you want to label it) because I believe spouting off against specific religious groups like you and others here did is exactly what Patrik is saying not to do. Can you tell me the purpose of your comment? It matters not which group or people you are picking on. "Those crazy Muslims" I would have had the same 'excited' reaction. "Those crazy Jews". Same response. Oh but wait. You would never say that, would you. These comments about the bible and Jesus Christ really have no place here.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:50 PM

Heather - I never said I was religious, but thank you for the follow up and clarification.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:33 PM

very well said Kamal.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:52 PM

Thanks for the link, Patrik. I don't think discussing Marx/Engels in the context of food is political. That discussion was awesome. But sure, I totally agree with the presidential comments not belonging here.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:37 PM

upvoted for honesty. i know i would do the same thing.

69a2a5deb24d5b8d3aae3d9652fac564

(1020)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:10 PM

I don't understand the bullying that seems to be going on here.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on July 23, 2011
at 03:01 PM

But the main point is this: I doubt Patrik is trying to be evil and muzzle paleohackers on important issues. Everyone knows that politics is very important and effects food; that is not in question. The issue is whether Patrik thinks that political threads are appropriate for the forum. Ask 100 paleohackers how exactly they would run a forum, get 100 different answers. This is Patrik's answer, and I don't think that disallowing political threads is ruinous to paleohacks, nor do I think that making such rules is ludicrous. Even if you think it's ludicrous, please consider still staying :)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:52 PM

But the main point is this: I doubt Patrik is trying to be evil and muzzle paleohackers on important issues. Everyone knows that politics is very important and effects food; that is not in question. The issue is whether Patrik thinks that political threads are appropriate for the forum. Ask 100 paleohackers how exactly they would run a forum, get 100 different answers. This is Patrik's answer, and I don't think that disallowing political threads is ruinous to paleohacks, nor do I think that making such rules is ludicrous. Even if you think it's ludicrous, please considering still staying :)

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:44 PM

Thomas Seay got banned? I haven't found anything he's said helpful in some time; and often he answers with tangential goofiness rather than anything helpful to the OP - but I didn't know he got canned:(

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:41 PM

Even though everything is potentially related to paleo, because paleo is so broad, not everything can be fruitfully hacked. I have strong opinions on economic matters that put me squarely in the socialist camp. Many years ago, I spent half of business school trying to convince classmates that they weren't able to see the light with regards to capitalism vs socialism. It's a never-ending idealogical battle, not a hack! That is why hacks about politics, vague metaphysics, religion, etc etc would probably dilute the actual paleo material here, and possibly lead to angry attacks on fellow hackers.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:35 PM

tartare and Futureboy-- I think an important point is being lost in this discussion. Some of the recent threads are quite off-topic. Advocating for Ron Paul or for a certain left or right leaning governing style is getting quite far from paleohacks mission. That's what prompted this thread, I'm guessing. But "food politics" is not the politics that is mentioned in these recent threads. My agonizingly slow-going PhD is in "Food Policy and Applied Nutrition". We frequently talk about food policy issues in the context of paleo on this board without getting all political. [continued]

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:20 PM

I don't mind religious people, I do generally resent those that push or proselytize. Unless I ask directly about someone's religion or spiritual beliefs, presume that I don't care to know.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:07 PM

Would +5 if I could!

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:05 PM

I pledge allegiance....I jest - but I think patrik's janitorial service on this site has always been fair. Good job, Pat. Ignore the nay-sayers; as you've said it's your site.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:03 PM

actually Jack, though you did indeed get pretty excited here you're just fundamentally wrong in your description of what I said. Its right there, read it again. I only referred to "crazy bible people", even more specifically like those I repeatedly ran into on WAP boards. I didn't say "anyone who believes in jesus" or whatever else you assert that I did. Again, simply read what I posted and you'll see. Your analogy with the lawyer thing is wholly inaccurate. I was raised roman catholic and while I am most definitely not a believer in God, I got no beef with those who do. To each her own.

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:00 PM

Jack - I apologize for being offensive and/or inappropriate. I myself was not raised in a religious household and consider myself agnostic at best. I fully respect yours and every other persons right to believe in any religion they choose. I have a lot of extended family that are very religious and I never say anything disrespectful to them and surely did not mean to do that here. My comment was poorly worded and all I meant to say is that I appreciate that I don't see any religious references on this forum.

Medium avatar

(5639)

on July 23, 2011
at 08:28 AM

Wow this is going way too far. Tartare is an incredibly intelligent, witty and worthwhile contributor to this site. I for one would agree with what she said, that even though politics is inherently tied up in our food system today, and will come up from time to time here, that this knee-jerk reaction from you and Ed lately is a little much. I'll be very sad if this gets me the standard response of "Maybe PH isn't the place for you either Futureboy."

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 08:10 AM

You see? Look at my comment. It's like I took a side isn't it? Pretty controversial topic, religion. I think your comments above are hypocritically inappropriate, and BAM! Look what it incited in me. This, right here, is why politics and religion don't belong on PaleoHacks. It starts wars from within a group of people who, without those topics, are all on the same team with regard to health and wellness.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 08:05 AM

ben, liz, lizzish, and heather - i think ALL of you comments here are inappropriate. and calling anyone's religion 'bullshit' is unnecessarily insulting. your comments here are of no higher class than the same interactions with those very people that made you upset enough to say these things here. 'crazy bible people'? just because a few idiots do and say idiotic things in the name of the bible or jesus christ? Really? Seriously? that's like saying "I've known enough lawyers to know that they are all crazy idiots. All of them". Cmon.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:53 AM

tartare. don't leave PH. you have a good voice here. Patrik is just keeping the site free of political discussions. Did you see the one Thomas Seay opened up earlier today. Yah it was, uh, ever so slightly (a pinch of sarcasm there) inappropriate.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:38 AM

@CaveRat @tartare -- comparing what I allow or don't allow as a topic on PaleoHacks and censorship in communist eastern europe is INSANE. They are in no way similar in any way, shape or form.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:24 AM

Liz - would you mind sending me an email - on my profile. I'd like to ask you about MT and bison and stuff I know almost nothing about. I'd appreciate it :-)

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:17 AM

@Liz V. --- Strike 1 = swearing. Strike 2 = insulting language. I am gonna throw a fastball down the middle and you're out.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:16 AM

@Liz V. -- I think you need to start your own Paleo blog/forum/whatever.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:16 AM

@Ed --exactly right.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:14 AM

@free3337 -- discuss Paleo + food + politics elsewhere.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:59 AM

Upvoted for common sense.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:57 AM

Ya, ya, ya...the personal is political, agreed. However, this is my favorite form of escapism from political news right now, and I'm not going to be a very happy camper if that starts creeping into here. I don't want to know who my fellow paleohackers want to be president, or senator, or mayor, I fear it could only sully my respect for them as otherwise intelligent people.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:32 AM

Patrick is a sharp guy who has a clear vision of how he wants the community to develop. He has a good community that has been helpful to me and others.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:26 AM

yes CaveRat, you're on the money. My point wasn't about health, and FYI Patrik uh thanks for uh pointing out that totally relevant fact about my people. My point was more about the decline of food quality in conjunction with ever increasing corporate power in American politics. And Patrik, you're right, PH is not the place for me.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:14 AM

Good to know... actually, no... suspended, banned, what the fucking ever...It's clear to me that the intellectual capacity of the group has surpassed the "creator" who lacks basic critical thinking skills ffs

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:06 AM

Uh, Ed, your political bipartisanship is showing...Patrick is in no way, now how leading the "information revolution"... that was the point of my original post. Hacking bone broth and supplements is useful, but ultimately leads to stagnation. What is your solution, vision - bone up, as it is.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:55 AM

not banned. suspended. excuse me. And I don't mean to fuss about it, but he's among my favorite hacker so it's frustrating to me.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:54 AM

not banned. suspended. excuse me.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:52 AM

Are you fkm? If so, I'm out of here, too. I really thought this place had potential, but I guess I was naive...

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:44 AM

But over all I am not happy that Thomas Seay got banned.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11488)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:26 AM

For some, politics IS religion.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11488)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:24 AM

@ Max Renn, "Commissar" Patrik IS leading the information revolution--thousands of blogs and on-line communities are leaving conventional media sources in the ash heap of history. Should I read Pravda for my daily paleo fix?

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on July 23, 2011
at 03:36 AM

It's a slippery slope! If you give people an inch they'll take a mile and one thing I love about PH is the lack of Jesus Christ here! <3

6869a1f2294b3a717a53645589a91d18

(1689)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:36 AM

Is it appropriate to discuss how one can better live a 'paleo' lifestyle? Many questions have already been asked about this subject, and productive/helpful answers have been given. Politics is something that definitely affects one's ability to live a paleo lifestyle, and is therefore relevant. If your qualm is with 'highly subjective arguments', then please just disallow the highly subjective and retain that which is more objective (i.e., political discussion is not inherently "highly subjective").

6869a1f2294b3a717a53645589a91d18

(1689)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:34 AM

"Is PaleoHacks a place where one should try to meld politics + Paleo?" This is disingenuous wording. Politics has already done the melding upon food/diet, a long time ago. They're already intertwined.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:31 AM

I think tatare's point wasn't who is healthier, but her personal experience of . I don't know where she's from but I'm just old enough to remember seeing (on TV) Soviet tanks rolling into Czechoslovakia - living with that kind of history daily would give one a unique outlook of 'ramifications'. I hope I'm not getting this TOO wrong, tartare :-)

2c8c421cf0e0c462654c7dc37f8b9711

(2729)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:28 AM

I came to paleo in part because the WAPFers kept hitting me over the head with their Bibles while I was trying to enjoy my grass-fed liver in peace. Well, that and gluten sucks.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:16 AM

I'm up voting too. My interest is (ok, was I guess since my post was deleted) more about how interest in Paleo informs other interests, not what camp one lives in.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:49 AM

"All politics is partisan" (sic)...okay, it's your show, but I disagree. Like I said, you have a bunch of smart people here that can do better than that, but, hey,if that's your limited vision, that's your business. I'll respect that, as like I said, I think you've drawn a great community here.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:46 AM

But my point was that there are political issues that affect us that we might be able to discuss. Has nothing to do with religion - aren't we smart enough to differentiate between sound discussion and religious bullshit? I thought so...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:43 AM

Upvote from me; I respect your opinion and viewpoint; you make valid points.

9759643ce5d97ab8fa649ae954656c4c

(3325)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:41 AM

I got voted down for my desire to preserve neutrality?

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:35 AM

I used to frequent a few WAP yahoo boards but there were so many bible quotations, assertions that god wants us to eat this or that, etc it just made me leave them altogether.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on July 23, 2011
at 01:13 AM

Thanks Patrik! I know why I come here and it's not for politics and/or religion. I think it would drive people away who just want to learn, share, get advice, and are just curious, in addition to potentially stifling others from responding. Like @lissish - I get enough of that everywhere else.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:08 AM

I think this is more because the q/a format sucks for politic discussion. Not only does it marginalize less popular perspectives but it also inhibits discussion.

Bcad307b240275ae3f5820ba6eb4a712

(923)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:07 AM

The discussion that was taking place about the possible hetero-normative lens in which paleo-diet culture is viewed that was ultimately closed, is a great example. Interesting viewpoints and a few digs. Not much different than any debate about food.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on July 23, 2011
at 12:54 AM

I think is that more because this q/a format sucks for politic discussion. Not only does it marginalize less popular perspectives but it also inhibits discussion.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 23, 2011
at 12:00 AM

Well, tartare, then PH is not a good place for you. There are a MILLION other places you can talk paleo, food & politics on the web. I mentioned two in my answer above. BTW & FYI Eastern Europe has worse health than the USA.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:56 PM

That's quite true, Ben

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:54 PM

Uh, I'm agreeing. I said I think politics is relevant in general, but not necessary here. At least that's what I think I said...

Medium avatar

(5136)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:53 PM

i agree with Liz. Food politics is totally relevant to Paleo. Sorry, information is information, and it's always contrary - you may as well ban the Vegan that comes on to this site and disagrees. Food is politics these days because food is more tied into economics than it has ever been before. End of Story. Maybe its because Im from Eastern Europe and used to understanding the full ramifications of politics in aspects of DAILY LIFE such as dinner, which i will openly say americans dont begin to understand (see Standard American Diet) but food is politics.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on July 22, 2011
at 11:40 PM

then caverat, you should start a discussion forum or blog about it. Paleohacks is for hacking the paleo diet, not for these kind of discussions. There is also the paleo subreddit.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:30 PM

Nope, sorry, we cannot open up any sort of political discussion -- all politics is partisan. End of story. Please, go elsewhere for paleo + political discussion. Stay here for interesting Q&A about how to hack the Paleo Diet.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:28 PM

I think it's entirely relevant - after all the kind of food we eat and obtain is intimately connected to the society we live in. It might even *define* the society we live in since it's so, uh, 'primal'. Grok, for example, lived in a society where group decisions were made for the whole tribe... That said, I don't think this kind of discussion can be done rationally without people taking sides or getting their backs up (I'm sure that happened to Grok too!). So I'm fine with it being totally banned.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:22 PM

@BeyondthePa1e -- b/c PaleoHacks is not a place for highly subjective argument about political philosophy. I don't want to see & won't tolerate it.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:21 PM

Max Renn -- you would prob best served participating elsewhere.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on July 22, 2011
at 11:06 PM

Nice knowing ya Max...

2c8c421cf0e0c462654c7dc37f8b9711

(2729)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:05 PM

Thanks, Patrik! I come here for nutrition and lifestyle advice, not to hear political arguments. I hear enough of that everywhere else.

Bcad307b240275ae3f5820ba6eb4a712

(923)

on July 22, 2011
at 10:57 PM

What's the reason?

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on July 22, 2011
at 10:44 PM

Wish I could upvote more than once. Wrote my response prior to seeing yours

  • 93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

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15 Answers

44
93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 22, 2011
at 10:40 PM

The answer is NO.

Political discussion does not have a place on PaleoHacks. I don't care if you are of the Left, Right, Independent, Green or Libertarian persuasion (or any others) -- PaleoHacks is an equal opportunity political discriminator, a pox on all %!^$##!! your houses!!!

Inane posts about so-and-so for Prez will be deleted immediately. And I might suspend or delete you as well.

Go find some forum or blog to talk Paleo + politics.

I repeat, PaleoHacks is not a place for political discussion or questions of any sort.

End of story.


The basic anatomy of every online political discussion

Person: Hey [insert_guru_of_preferred_political_affiliation] said this and this. [insert_random_fact_here] makes me think that we should do X, Y and Z. And that [insert_other_political_affiliation] is totally wrong.

OtherPerson: Well, you're an [insert_preferred_insult] because [insert_guru_of_preferred_political_affiliation] said that and that based on [insert_random_fact_here].

Person: Oh yeah? Well, you and [insert_guru_of_preferred_political_affiliation] are just like Hitler. Did you ever stop to think of you are becoming the tool of [insert_special_interest_group_here]?

OtherPerson: Well, you're an [insert_preferred_insult] because [insert_guru_of_preferred_political_affiliation] said that and that.

Ad infinitum.


PS for those looking to talk Paleo + politics online, go see my buddy Richard's blog/comments. You can either agree with or tangle with him all you want there. Or go hang out over with this dude.

Or start your own forum.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:28 PM

I think it's entirely relevant - after all the kind of food we eat and obtain is intimately connected to the society we live in. It might even *define* the society we live in since it's so, uh, 'primal'. Grok, for example, lived in a society where group decisions were made for the whole tribe... That said, I don't think this kind of discussion can be done rationally without people taking sides or getting their backs up (I'm sure that happened to Grok too!). So I'm fine with it being totally banned.

6869a1f2294b3a717a53645589a91d18

(1689)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:36 AM

Is it appropriate to discuss how one can better live a 'paleo' lifestyle? Many questions have already been asked about this subject, and productive/helpful answers have been given. Politics is something that definitely affects one's ability to live a paleo lifestyle, and is therefore relevant. If your qualm is with 'highly subjective arguments', then please just disallow the highly subjective and retain that which is more objective (i.e., political discussion is not inherently "highly subjective").

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:14 AM

@free3337 -- discuss Paleo + food + politics elsewhere.

6869a1f2294b3a717a53645589a91d18

(1689)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:34 AM

"Is PaleoHacks a place where one should try to meld politics + Paleo?" This is disingenuous wording. Politics has already done the melding upon food/diet, a long time ago. They're already intertwined.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:52 PM

Thanks for the link, Patrik. I don't think discussing Marx/Engels in the context of food is political. That discussion was awesome. But sure, I totally agree with the presidential comments not belonging here.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:57 AM

Ya, ya, ya...the personal is political, agreed. However, this is my favorite form of escapism from political news right now, and I'm not going to be a very happy camper if that starts creeping into here. I don't want to know who my fellow paleohackers want to be president, or senator, or mayor, I fear it could only sully my respect for them as otherwise intelligent people.

Ce7e28769d92d5de5533e775b1de966e

on July 23, 2011
at 01:13 AM

Thanks Patrik! I know why I come here and it's not for politics and/or religion. I think it would drive people away who just want to learn, share, get advice, and are just curious, in addition to potentially stifling others from responding. Like @lissish - I get enough of that everywhere else.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on July 22, 2011
at 10:44 PM

Wish I could upvote more than once. Wrote my response prior to seeing yours

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on July 22, 2011
at 11:40 PM

then caverat, you should start a discussion forum or blog about it. Paleohacks is for hacking the paleo diet, not for these kind of discussions. There is also the paleo subreddit.

Bcad307b240275ae3f5820ba6eb4a712

(923)

on July 22, 2011
at 10:57 PM

What's the reason?

2c8c421cf0e0c462654c7dc37f8b9711

(2729)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:05 PM

Thanks, Patrik! I come here for nutrition and lifestyle advice, not to hear political arguments. I hear enough of that everywhere else.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:54 PM

Uh, I'm agreeing. I said I think politics is relevant in general, but not necessary here. At least that's what I think I said...

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:22 PM

@BeyondthePa1e -- b/c PaleoHacks is not a place for highly subjective argument about political philosophy. I don't want to see & won't tolerate it.

1ccc0b0b7a756cd42466cef8f450d0cb

(1801)

on February 02, 2012
at 01:27 PM

+1 Excellent demonstration of Godwin's Law.

20
9759643ce5d97ab8fa649ae954656c4c

on July 23, 2011
at 12:25 AM

As much as I love to talk politics, I agree that this isn't the place. Knowing about your political leanings might interfere with my ability to take sound nutritional advice from you, which could potentially interfere with the results of my N=1 experiments. I need to be able to continue to respect the opinions and advice of the membership without my character judgments getting in the way.

9759643ce5d97ab8fa649ae954656c4c

(3325)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:41 AM

I got voted down for my desire to preserve neutrality?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:43 AM

Upvote from me; I respect your opinion and viewpoint; you make valid points.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:16 AM

I'm up voting too. My interest is (ok, was I guess since my post was deleted) more about how interest in Paleo informs other interests, not what camp one lives in.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:59 AM

Upvoted for common sense.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:37 PM

upvoted for honesty. i know i would do the same thing.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 11:35 PM

You got upvoted from me :)

10
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:26 PM

I did not see one comment on those "offensive" posts that was remotely suggested bickering. Ok, Thomas' post was not appropriate (Sorry, TMS!). HOwever, the Marx Engels post was entirely paleo. The OP even posted some kick ass links that discussed Engels views of evolutionary biology. That post was illuminating for its content about corporatism impacting our food system.

Frankly, I'm disgusted that the remote inference of politics is automatically deemed partisan or inflammatory. Sure, we can talk about hacking vaginas or asking about adrenal failure for the umpteenth time but not the whys and hows of our food system destruction. That post was probably one of the most constructive discussions I've seen on here. If someone doesn't like the post they can simply choose not to read it.

Patrik, I appreciate what you and the moderators do here. Yes, you built this site but anyone who builds a community needs to realize that it comes to the point where it is the people's community. The information people contribute here make it so YOU have a site. Without the people you have no community. I was reading a Slate article about Ravelry, an online community about knitting. It has come to the point in that community where people have sub-areas for off-topic discussions. They come for the knitting and stay for the people. Their hosts (the owners don't claim to "own" but "host" the community) understand that their community can only go so far with one topic and have adjusted the site as such. Please entertain that idea otherwise, people will begin to drop off.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:27 PM

@Patrik: 1) Politics is NOT always partisan. A thoughtful discussion about politics outside the context of party affiliations does not have to be incendiary. Please see Oxford Debates as a great example. Not everyone has a "stand" and a lot of us are very open to other's views. Again, the Marx/Engels discussion was NOT political. 2) We are free to have differing views. I respect your "benevolent dictator" approach despite that I feel "owning" a community's information does not promote the foundations of free speech and free information. But hey, I'm all old skool internets like that :)

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 24, 2011
at 11:29 PM

@Baconbitch @meredith -- good-bye.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:03 PM

@baconbitch -- 1) politics IS partisan & inflammatory, that is a fact of life. Plenty of other places it can be discussed in the context of Paleo. 2) The community creates a site for the community -- and I am the community's benevolent dictator (for better or as you might think, for worse) 3) If people drop off, then people drop off. I am not doing this for the money - so I have freedom to manage PH as I see fit.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 25, 2011
at 12:21 AM

I upvoted you @patrik. Cuz I'm all sweet like that. Mwah!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:01 PM

Let me qualify the first sentence in paragraph 2. That wasn't directed towards Patrik rather, a general statement that politics can't be discussed in the U.S. for fear of inflammatory remarks. That makes me feel as though our people don't have the intellect for open discussion.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:30 PM

3) That's all good, man. If you're cool with people dropping off then hey - totally get it. I was just offering you another view. I'm sure you're frustrated by this as it comes through loud and clear in your writing. However, discourse is a good thing. I wasn't attacking you. Just stating my opinions :)

Medium avatar

(5639)

on July 23, 2011
at 06:22 PM

Well put baconbitch.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on July 25, 2011
at 01:23 AM

You got it P - you got upvoted for that pronouncement - So I guess you are not alone in wanting me gone (Can't imagine I offended anyone, sorry to those who were!) Bye! PS I have 2 kids, the sleep thing DOES get better :) Hang in there P!

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 24, 2011
at 07:44 PM

@baconbitch -- 1) you are right, in highly structured and formalized situation, politics can be non-partisan i.e. your example of Oxford debates is spot-on -- BUT GUESS WHAT? THIS ISN'T A FORUM LIKE THAT! [*facepalm]

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 24, 2011
at 07:53 PM

@Patrik: Someday, dear, perhaps you'll be able to converse in a non-defensive and intellectual way. Until then, I bid thee farewell :)

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on July 24, 2011
at 08:19 PM

Seriously? Patrik, I read nothing, nothing at all here that should have been taken with any amount of offense. Maybe I am misreading your response, but I can't but feel like you are going for a verbal "slap in the face." Taking the subject matter out of it, you are coming across like a Daddy who likes his kids to be seen and not heard. Only a few reactions can come from this - out and out rebellion, or a total retreat. I am not the rebellious type. You have attracted a lovely group of people here. I wish I could pack 'em all up and take them with me.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 24, 2011
at 07:47 PM

@baconbitch - 2) I, personally, have done much more to liberate speech & information wrt Paleo than you ever will --- implying that the way I run the community is somehow anti-free speech or anti-information is beyond nonsense, it is insulting. You're not "old skool internets" -- you are simply a knee-jerk anti-conventionalist as your blog makes it clear.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 24, 2011
at 09:19 PM

I love you @Mer :)

9
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:44 PM

If you let politics come on, just know that religion etc will quickly follow.

This then will unfortunately give voice to all the crazy bible people, much like many WAP boards. Why do really good health movements always bring in crazy bible people?

My vote is no politics, no religion.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:35 AM

I used to frequent a few WAP yahoo boards but there were so many bible quotations, assertions that god wants us to eat this or that, etc it just made me leave them altogether.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11488)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:26 AM

For some, politics IS religion.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 08:05 AM

ben, liz, lizzish, and heather - i think ALL of you comments here are inappropriate. and calling anyone's religion 'bullshit' is unnecessarily insulting. your comments here are of no higher class than the same interactions with those very people that made you upset enough to say these things here. 'crazy bible people'? just because a few idiots do and say idiotic things in the name of the bible or jesus christ? Really? Seriously? that's like saying "I've known enough lawyers to know that they are all crazy idiots. All of them". Cmon.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:03 PM

actually Jack, though you did indeed get pretty excited here you're just fundamentally wrong in your description of what I said. Its right there, read it again. I only referred to "crazy bible people", even more specifically like those I repeatedly ran into on WAP boards. I didn't say "anyone who believes in jesus" or whatever else you assert that I did. Again, simply read what I posted and you'll see. Your analogy with the lawyer thing is wholly inaccurate. I was raised roman catholic and while I am most definitely not a believer in God, I got no beef with those who do. To each her own.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:18 PM

lol. that's excellent bud. i will let you know when I feel like putting crazy hindus in an answer somewhere. you never know when it might be applicable. haha.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:46 AM

But my point was that there are political issues that affect us that we might be able to discuss. Has nothing to do with religion - aren't we smart enough to differentiate between sound discussion and religious bullshit? I thought so...

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:50 PM

Heather - I never said I was religious, but thank you for the follow up and clarification.

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:00 PM

Jack - I apologize for being offensive and/or inappropriate. I myself was not raised in a religious household and consider myself agnostic at best. I fully respect yours and every other persons right to believe in any religion they choose. I have a lot of extended family that are very religious and I never say anything disrespectful to them and surely did not mean to do that here. My comment was poorly worded and all I meant to say is that I appreciate that I don't see any religious references on this forum.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:07 PM

Would +5 if I could!

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 23, 2011
at 06:28 PM

anyone who believes in some dude up in the clouds ruling shit, where he has a heaven that you go do after you die - that is fucking bonkers. how's that? Good enough?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:54 PM

@Ben - No. Actually you are wrong. I read your comment correctly. And I only get 'excited' (if that's what you want to label it) because I believe spouting off against specific religious groups like you and others here did is exactly what Patrik is saying not to do. Can you tell me the purpose of your comment? It matters not which group or people you are picking on. "Those crazy Muslims" I would have had the same 'excited' reaction. "Those crazy Jews". Same response. Oh but wait. You would never say that, would you. These comments about the bible and Jesus Christ really have no place here.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 23, 2011
at 06:40 PM

the only crazy religious people i ran into were crazy evangelical flaming tongue speaking fairytale-believing bible people, thats why. When i get preached to by crazy jewish dudes and crazy muslim dudes i'll let you know.

34a367e60db77270bd7096dc04270fdc

(4171)

on July 23, 2011
at 03:36 AM

It's a slippery slope! If you give people an inch they'll take a mile and one thing I love about PH is the lack of Jesus Christ here! <3

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on July 23, 2011
at 07:20 PM

Just respond to my latest question about the PANTS Party and it definitely will fit!

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:16 AM

@Ed --exactly right.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:56 PM

That's quite true, Ben

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 08:10 AM

You see? Look at my comment. It's like I took a side isn't it? Pretty controversial topic, religion. I think your comments above are hypocritically inappropriate, and BAM! Look what it incited in me. This, right here, is why politics and religion don't belong on PaleoHacks. It starts wars from within a group of people who, without those topics, are all on the same team with regard to health and wellness.

2c8c421cf0e0c462654c7dc37f8b9711

(2729)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:28 AM

I came to paleo in part because the WAPFers kept hitting me over the head with their Bibles while I was trying to enjoy my grass-fed liver in peace. Well, that and gluten sucks.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on July 23, 2011
at 06:59 PM

@Jack - if/when you start referring to "crazy Hindus", it's ok because everyone will know you are referring to me and since 1) it's true, and 2) we are Paleo brothers, I know you mean it as a term of endearment! The only real crazies I've been seeing lately are diet and nutrition zealots. Go figure!

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 23, 2011
at 06:35 PM

the purpose of my answer was directly to answer the question posed: is this a place where one should meld politics and paleo. My vote was no, as I clearly stated. I added that its a slippery slope. There was no purpose to my comment that there are crazy bible people out there other than to try and out them;) You can't see the difference between my saying "crazy bible people" versus my saying, say, "christians" generally? But yknow what? Why mince words, if you actually believe in the stories of bible you believe in fairy tales in which case you're beyond reachable anyhow, no?

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:20 PM

I don't mind religious people, I do generally resent those that push or proselytize. Unless I ask directly about someone's religion or spiritual beliefs, presume that I don't care to know.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 06:47 PM

whatever. it doesn't make your crap here any more ok. and no need to let me know about any crazy jewish dudes. i don't care.

6
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:20 PM

Hi Patrick, I am a newcomer here and I mostly lurk while writing lectures, but I'm going to step out on a limb...

Can we at least open up what you mean by "political discussion"? I absolutely agree that "so and so for president" posts have no place here. In other words, PARTISAN politics have no place here. The paleo community/ies consist of a wide range of political affiliations, and discussions can become irrelevant to the paleo WOL.

However, from what I've seen, there are many highly intelligent, critical thinking, informed people in the PaleoHacks community that I believe can have a constructive, non-partisan discussion about certain political subjects; for example, there was a discussion about food politics/ policy today that was informative and intelligent. There are some political topics that are important to us all -- I don't care if you're a communist-libertarian-republican-rastafarian, the effect of the 2012 Farm Bill on the farmer that raises your grass-fed organic calf's liver and bones for your bone broth is worth discussing. USDA policies, CAFO's, someone mentioned the attack on raw milk, etc... I don't see these things as necessarily politically antagonistic.

In other words, I think food politics might be an allowable subject here; I reiterate, however, I think it can be conducted in a BI-PARTISAN matter. What I see in your PaleoHacks community is a potential positive force for change. I guess it depends on what your vision is for this community -- hack my bone broth is a worthy subject, but why not let the full potential of the community come to fruition?

With respect.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:26 AM

yes CaveRat, you're on the money. My point wasn't about health, and FYI Patrik uh thanks for uh pointing out that totally relevant fact about my people. My point was more about the decline of food quality in conjunction with ever increasing corporate power in American politics. And Patrik, you're right, PH is not the place for me.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:53 AM

tartare. don't leave PH. you have a good voice here. Patrik is just keeping the site free of political discussions. Did you see the one Thomas Seay opened up earlier today. Yah it was, uh, ever so slightly (a pinch of sarcasm there) inappropriate.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 23, 2011
at 10:29 PM

I don't need to beat a dead horse, but Patrik I wasn't making that comparison at ALL. Not even remotely. Neither, I think, did tartare. Nor do I even think of it/you that way, and if my comment came across that way to you, then I apologize for my inept delivery.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:35 PM

tartare and Futureboy-- I think an important point is being lost in this discussion. Some of the recent threads are quite off-topic. Advocating for Ron Paul or for a certain left or right leaning governing style is getting quite far from paleohacks mission. That's what prompted this thread, I'm guessing. But "food politics" is not the politics that is mentioned in these recent threads. My agonizingly slow-going PhD is in "Food Policy and Applied Nutrition". We frequently talk about food policy issues in the context of paleo on this board without getting all political. [continued]

Medium avatar

(5639)

on July 23, 2011
at 08:28 AM

Wow this is going way too far. Tartare is an incredibly intelligent, witty and worthwhile contributor to this site. I for one would agree with what she said, that even though politics is inherently tied up in our food system today, and will come up from time to time here, that this knee-jerk reaction from you and Ed lately is a little much. I'll be very sad if this gets me the standard response of "Maybe PH isn't the place for you either Futureboy."

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:30 PM

Nope, sorry, we cannot open up any sort of political discussion -- all politics is partisan. End of story. Please, go elsewhere for paleo + political discussion. Stay here for interesting Q&A about how to hack the Paleo Diet.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 23, 2011
at 12:00 AM

Well, tartare, then PH is not a good place for you. There are a MILLION other places you can talk paleo, food & politics on the web. I mentioned two in my answer above. BTW & FYI Eastern Europe has worse health than the USA.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:53 PM

i agree with Liz. Food politics is totally relevant to Paleo. Sorry, information is information, and it's always contrary - you may as well ban the Vegan that comes on to this site and disagrees. Food is politics these days because food is more tied into economics than it has ever been before. End of Story. Maybe its because Im from Eastern Europe and used to understanding the full ramifications of politics in aspects of DAILY LIFE such as dinner, which i will openly say americans dont begin to understand (see Standard American Diet) but food is politics.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on July 23, 2011
at 03:01 PM

But the main point is this: I doubt Patrik is trying to be evil and muzzle paleohackers on important issues. Everyone knows that politics is very important and effects food; that is not in question. The issue is whether Patrik thinks that political threads are appropriate for the forum. Ask 100 paleohackers how exactly they would run a forum, get 100 different answers. This is Patrik's answer, and I don't think that disallowing political threads is ruinous to paleohacks, nor do I think that making such rules is ludicrous. Even if you think it's ludicrous, please consider still staying :)

Medium avatar

(5136)

on July 23, 2011
at 11:42 PM

the Iron Curtain.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 24, 2011
at 02:54 AM

@Tartare - there are some of us that "get" what you're saying. Some of us are having a great time discussing it elsewhere. We actually understand the difference between policy and politics and have the capacity to disagree without inflammatory remarks. You know, basic intellect and logic :) CaveRat and I would love for you to get your arse over there. You know how to find us!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:41 PM

Even though everything is potentially related to paleo, because paleo is so broad, not everything can be fruitfully hacked. I have strong opinions on economic matters that put me squarely in the socialist camp. Many years ago, I spent half of business school trying to convince classmates that they weren't able to see the light with regards to capitalism vs socialism. It's a never-ending idealogical battle, not a hack! That is why hacks about politics, vague metaphysics, religion, etc etc would probably dilute the actual paleo material here, and possibly lead to angry attacks on fellow hackers.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:31 AM

I think tatare's point wasn't who is healthier, but her personal experience of . I don't know where she's from but I'm just old enough to remember seeing (on TV) Soviet tanks rolling into Czechoslovakia - living with that kind of history daily would give one a unique outlook of 'ramifications'. I hope I'm not getting this TOO wrong, tartare :-)

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:33 PM

very well said Kamal.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on July 23, 2011
at 11:40 PM

@Jack Kronk and Futureboy - thank you guys for the very kind words! I've always deeply enjoyed reading what both of you have had to say as well. @Patrik - i never in any way whatsoever implied a comparison between what you do here and censorship of any kind, I have no idea where you read into my comments and came up with that. My point was that its been my experience that keeping on top of food politics (such as the very relevant Farm Bill Liz mentioned in the answer above) is more important than a lot of Americans realize - for entirely different reasons than it was in Eastern Europe during

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:49 AM

"All politics is partisan" (sic)...okay, it's your show, but I disagree. Like I said, you have a bunch of smart people here that can do better than that, but, hey,if that's your limited vision, that's your business. I'll respect that, as like I said, I think you've drawn a great community here.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:52 PM

But the main point is this: I doubt Patrik is trying to be evil and muzzle paleohackers on important issues. Everyone knows that politics is very important and effects food; that is not in question. The issue is whether Patrik thinks that political threads are appropriate for the forum. Ask 100 paleohackers how exactly they would run a forum, get 100 different answers. This is Patrik's answer, and I don't think that disallowing political threads is ruinous to paleohacks, nor do I think that making such rules is ludicrous. Even if you think it's ludicrous, please considering still staying :)

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 23, 2011
at 10:40 PM

Sheesh - that's "personal" not "Persian"! Dang Apple Autocorrect.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on July 23, 2011
at 11:45 PM

Nevertheless, having lived in a place where there was a food shortage due to political reasons, I understand the potential impact very well. My sister cried the first time my Mother took her to a run of the mill grocery store in America. America will not be facing any such shortage, but politics are getting weird in this country, with corporations increasingly running the game, the same corporations who are feeding us the vast majority of the "food" on our shelves. I don't think this is the appropriate forum for political discussions about other topics, but it does disappoint me when I see

Medium avatar

(5136)

on July 23, 2011
at 11:47 PM

certain good threads, relevant to food politics specifically, (like Futureboy's question on fracking) closed down. Of course it's your site, and you can do as you please, but I disagree with the philosophy behind your thinking.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 23, 2011
at 10:38 PM

@kamal, I'm totally with the program here, but just for the record my post - the one that was deleted - was about paleo influencing politics. It was about Persian changes and curiosity about others' experience. There was no endorsement. Maybe on the heels of Thomas' post it was seen as too much. Or maybe opening the door to the kind of bickering objected to. I'm not sure, exactly.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:38 AM

@CaveRat @tartare -- comparing what I allow or don't allow as a topic on PaleoHacks and censorship in communist eastern europe is INSANE. They are in no way similar in any way, shape or form.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 24, 2011
at 01:12 AM

I thought *my* thread was pretty good, too :-). Too bad you missed it - I put more work into it than I should have, with half a dozen links and everything! Next time I'll keep a local copy, just in case - you just never know what might happen :-)

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 24, 2011
at 04:52 AM

Ditto that, hon.

5
B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

on July 23, 2011
at 02:16 PM

While everything is connected, discussing everything related to food can make for a really unfocused conversation. I like how patrik insists we avoid losing energy to political argumentation.

I come here for answers and questions about paleo-style eating.

I also like a bit of humor and great pictures.

The world is drowning in bickering over politics, I'm glad that it is limited here.

5
Bcad307b240275ae3f5820ba6eb4a712

(923)

on July 22, 2011
at 10:56 PM

It seems these days, that I see the same questions asked over and over again in a hundred different ways. I know I'm guilty of it. It doesn't stop me from coming here, apparently. But, it would be nice to see the discussion opened up to include a broader range of relevant topics relating to food culture and diet. I get that we could all start our own forums and such, but people already come here, so it would be a great place. If a post has a political subject line, then don't read it. Its that simple. Alas, I know its not going to happen, but a boy can dream.

Bcad307b240275ae3f5820ba6eb4a712

(923)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:07 AM

The discussion that was taking place about the possible hetero-normative lens in which paleo-diet culture is viewed that was ultimately closed, is a great example. Interesting viewpoints and a few digs. Not much different than any debate about food.

3
D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on July 23, 2011
at 12:07 AM

Paleo Hacks is about changes you can make individually and amongst those in your sphere of influence. It's not about theoretical societal changes or politics. Occasional mocking of the FDA and USDA may be permitted.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on July 23, 2011
at 12:54 AM

I think is that more because this q/a format sucks for politic discussion. Not only does it marginalize less popular perspectives but it also inhibits discussion.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:24 AM

Liz - would you mind sending me an email - on my profile. I'd like to ask you about MT and bison and stuff I know almost nothing about. I'd appreciate it :-)

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:08 AM

I think this is more because the q/a format sucks for politic discussion. Not only does it marginalize less popular perspectives but it also inhibits discussion.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:55 AM

not banned. suspended. excuse me. And I don't mean to fuss about it, but he's among my favorite hacker so it's frustrating to me.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:17 AM

@Liz V. --- Strike 1 = swearing. Strike 2 = insulting language. I am gonna throw a fastball down the middle and you're out.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:54 AM

not banned. suspended. excuse me.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:59 PM

I agree Ben. I like Thomas. He's really funny, but I agree with what you say here.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:14 AM

Good to know... actually, no... suspended, banned, what the fucking ever...It's clear to me that the intellectual capacity of the group has surpassed the "creator" who lacks basic critical thinking skills ffs

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on July 23, 2011
at 08:49 PM

Just about all the newbies here come in heavily dogma soaked, which is fine. I have my own dogma that I fight to keep down. But Thomas is great at slapping down dogma with tinge of humor.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:44 AM

But over all I am not happy that Thomas Seay got banned.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:32 AM

Patrick is a sharp guy who has a clear vision of how he wants the community to develop. He has a good community that has been helpful to me and others.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:52 AM

Are you fkm? If so, I'm out of here, too. I really thought this place had potential, but I guess I was naive...

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 23, 2011
at 02:44 PM

Thomas Seay got banned? I haven't found anything he's said helpful in some time; and often he answers with tangential goofiness rather than anything helpful to the OP - but I didn't know he got canned:(

2
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on October 27, 2011
at 12:33 AM

I'm seeing more and more politics posts on here. I have to close them because they are outside the scope of this site. Please post them on more appropriate forums like

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 27, 2011
at 01:17 AM

oooooh, goodie!

2
Medium avatar

on July 22, 2011
at 11:03 PM

Jeez, remind me not to ask Commissar Patrik to lead the revolution.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on July 22, 2011
at 11:06 PM

Nice knowing ya Max...

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:21 PM

Max Renn -- you would prob best served participating elsewhere.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 23, 2011
at 01:05 PM

I pledge allegiance....I jest - but I think patrik's janitorial service on this site has always been fair. Good job, Pat. Ignore the nay-sayers; as you've said it's your site.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 23, 2011
at 07:16 AM

@Liz V. -- I think you need to start your own Paleo blog/forum/whatever.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 23, 2011
at 05:06 AM

Uh, Ed, your political bipartisanship is showing...Patrick is in no way, now how leading the "information revolution"... that was the point of my original post. Hacking bone broth and supplements is useful, but ultimately leads to stagnation. What is your solution, vision - bone up, as it is.

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11488)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:24 AM

@ Max Renn, "Commissar" Patrik IS leading the information revolution--thousands of blogs and on-line communities are leaving conventional media sources in the ash heap of history. Should I read Pravda for my daily paleo fix?

69a2a5deb24d5b8d3aae3d9652fac564

(1020)

on July 23, 2011
at 04:10 PM

I don't understand the bullying that seems to be going on here.

1
D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on July 22, 2011
at 10:41 PM

I strongly feel it does not belong here.

I am not suggesting that it does not influence us, but keep your religion, politics, and penchant for buggery in the privacy of your own home....IMO.

0
246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on February 01, 2012
at 11:07 PM

I think some posts that point accusatory towards government regulation directly related to Paleo are founded... but if you are a paleo, this would not be a partisan issue

Such as this one - link text

I agree with Patrik on the partisan stuff... left, right, wrong, whatever... your politics would go better on a political site. Some topics on political manners can be asinine and related to Paleo in a way we can discuss, but aside from that... GTFO.

0
Medium avatar

on July 24, 2011
at 02:25 AM

Patrik- if you want to have more clear boundaries for paleohacks, maybe create a tab at the top that has something like "read before starting" or "getting started" or something. Something that has suggestions for newbies on formulating good questions, PH etiquite, topics to stay away from, etc. I've been a part of other online communities and most of them have rules. Some of them even had an application process! As far as I can tell, there aren't obvious (posted, written) rules here. I figured out what was and wasn't appropriate by reading and watching for a while.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on July 24, 2011
at 02:52 AM

You might want to check out the FAQ. Which I will update later tonight.

Medium avatar

(2169)

on July 24, 2011
at 03:02 AM

Maybe move the FAQ to its own bar next to "questions, tags, users, badges, unanswered" I may have read it a few months ago, but forgot it was there, and didn't see it when I looked for it earlier. Maybe put it in a more prominent location?

0
62f89aa727cf3ce77c36651347cabc14

(884)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:33 PM

Do rhetorical questions belong on Paleohacks?

0
A141571ee2453db572c9d3222657bf6b

(756)

on July 22, 2011
at 11:11 PM

certainly politics are not paleo. Grok for President!

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