2

votes

Meat vs. No Meat Are we born to eat it?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 07, 2013 at 5:14 PM

Hi, a friend of mine asked me to research why humans shouldn't eat meat. So I've been reading and reading different stuff on the internet and I still can't understand why. I can't seem to find any good reason. So I want to understand so if someone could explain it to me it would be great. But I'm also having a hard time with how is eating meat wrong for us but grains are okay? It just doesn't make sense anyway its been explained to me.

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on January 09, 2013
at 12:28 AM

You're an enigma then, because that is backwards from how humans work. I very much agree, it doesn't make any sense. And I don't know where you read about our bodies making B12, but unfortunately not all things on the internet are true.

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on January 08, 2013
at 08:35 PM

i've actually read a lot about our bodies making b12 in the small intestine. i always figured that's how i managed as a vegan since i never took supplements or ate b12 fortified food. since i started paleo, i've needed to add b-12 injections every week even though i eat about 1 lb of meat a day. it makes no sense to me. http://www.vibrancyuk.com/B12.html

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 08, 2013
at 02:54 PM

Which begot Homo sapiens only a few hundred thousand years ago.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 08, 2013
at 02:53 PM

Obviously we don't know for certain, and I was too colloquial in my post. Fossil records indicate that Australopithecus are a predominately vegetable based diet, perhaps eggs, but unlikely much meat. Homo Habilis was the first omnivore, fossil records show little evidence of meat, but the tools are likely designed to pull meat off of a dead animal before other scavengers arrived. At a similar time, Homo Erectus began to build tools for hunting and show the first fossil records of meat consumption.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on January 08, 2013
at 11:50 AM

Or for that mater, true vitamin A, retinol. And who ever heard of fruit or vegetable sources of cholesterol?

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on January 08, 2013
at 11:49 AM

That article is a load of bison droppings. Spend some time to learn the truth: http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10533993 @Roth, fermented grains are not ok, they still contain gluten, whether you're showing symptoms or not, it's still damaging.

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on January 08, 2013
at 04:59 AM

And one of a million links - http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/vegansources

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on January 08, 2013
at 04:59 AM

Our bodies do not make it at all. You can google it and get a lot of info on it. From a vegan site, they say that vitamin b12 can be obtained from a bacteria and a couple other micro-organisms. This is then either fortified with vegan foods, or can be taken as a supplement. So I stand corrected, you don't absolutely need meat in order to get the vitamin, but you will need mass quantities of certain bacteria to produce it for you if you're going to avoid it. So, short of that, meat is in fact the only other way I can find on how we get B12.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 08, 2013
at 04:37 AM

What points to humans ever not eating meat CD? That's the sticking point. Why would we ever have avoided it? We've never been able to digest cellulose, and digest starches poorly unless they're cooked, so we're not good at extracting nutritional value from vegetation and most seeds. But we can easily gather and crack digestible things like clams, nuts and eggs. Not all are plant foods.

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on January 08, 2013
at 03:59 AM

i thought our bodies made b-12 in the gut. i was a vegan for 5 years and always had excellent b-12 levels. i know we don't need meat in order to get it.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on January 08, 2013
at 02:26 AM

Brianna, learn to recognize sarcasm.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 07, 2013
at 10:56 PM

Milk? Insects? I still think the concept of originally being vegetarians is propaganda though. The good thing about polar bear liver is that it's pretty hard to get.

782d92f4127823bdfb2ddfcbcf961d0e

(5231)

on January 07, 2013
at 09:24 PM

I'm not sure what the fuss is about...if meat-eating spurred the development of the human brain, then ergo, there must have been a time when our ancestors were vegetarian. Don't know about the cause for changing to meat-eating though.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 08:49 PM

Gluten is primary found in cereal grains, I would not consider it a "vegetable protein". But if that's enough, than since eating polar bear liver is enough to kill a human, we weren't meant to eat meat either? tiger blowfish will kill you if not properly prepared -- fish are out. Insects? Nope. What were we meant to eat than?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 08:35 PM

Wow, did not think this would be so hotly contested. When I took evolutionary anthropology this was just presented in the class as current theory. @thhq, how is it "vegan self-esteem" if the point is that eating meat, "provided the catalyst for human evolution".

Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 07, 2013
at 08:31 PM

-1. This is a collection of fairy tales for raising vegan self-esteem. Believe them if you need to, but they're on the level of Brer Rabbit stories.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on January 07, 2013
at 08:27 PM

Not sure I buy the plant-decimating drought that caused humans to start eating meat. The expansion of pre-humans into new habitat where prey was a key part of diet, yes.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 07:28 PM

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html -- "It was this new meat diet, full of densely-packed nutrients, that provided the catalyst for human evolution, particularly the growth of the brain"

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 07:28 PM

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html -- "Human ancestors who roamed the dry and open savannas of Africa about 2 million years ago routinely began to include meat in their diets to compensate for a serious decline in the quality of plant foods"

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 07:28 PM

http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/~burton/foodcourse/meat-eating.htm -- "...the recent increase in hominid brain size based on dietary quality (a theme returned to by many participants) and linked the ability of genus Homo, in particular H. erectus, to produce a large-bodied, large-brained neonate to increasingly effective meat procurement by hunting."

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 07:28 PM

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121004093508.htm -- "Meat eating has always been considered one of the things that made us human, with the protein contributing to the growth of our brains," said Charles Musiba, Ph.D., associate professor of anthropology at the University of Colorado Denver"

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 07:28 PM

type, evolutionary anthropology brain size into google.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 07:22 PM

which part do you want links to? That we started as vegetarians? or that protein initiated the evolution of the human brain?

D1728f99db66ff91d695a6df5cd38b02

(1368)

on January 07, 2013
at 07:04 PM

At first I thought you were trolling, because you were angry with your friend telling you to research why humans shouldn't eat meat when you already know that we are meant to and just wanted to vent to people who definitely can't find any reason we shouldn't eat meat. But now it seems as though you are not convinced. Research more paleo and you will find a tonne of reasons to eat meat and to not eat grains.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 07, 2013
at 06:10 PM

Vegan rather than paleo forum*

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 07, 2013
at 06:09 PM

Okay, to me it just seems like if you wanted someone to argue why meat is bad and grains are good you'd get more responses on a vegan/paleo forum so it makes me wonder why you asked it here. It'd be like asking how to fix a cell phone on an amish farm.

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on January 07, 2013
at 06:03 PM

I'm going to call shenanigans on the first paragraph unless there's some links to back up the "most anthropologists" claim.

61b5a48b4609fc0aeedd36b30a67cfa3

(40)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:40 PM

I can't do that they are my friend and its a little morbid.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:40 PM

May take a few dozen years, but revenge is served best with a side of bacon

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:39 PM

@borofergie, is that bacon and beer?

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:38 PM

Fermented bacon is totally fine.

61b5a48b4609fc0aeedd36b30a67cfa3

(40)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:31 PM

I've read a lot of questions about vegetarianism on this website. More than just paleo people are on this website. And there are questions on the website about whether humans are meant to eat meat and that essentially is what I want to understand.

3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:29 PM

Fermented grains are totally fine, in the absence of digestive disorders or autoimmune conditions.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:18 PM

Your two questions, as they are written, are asking a paleo community why eating paleo is wrong. Did you mean to post this on a vegan website or am I misinterpreting what you're asking? Paleo believes that you Should eat meat and should Not eat grains as a general rule, but you seem to be asking to have the opposite argued?

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8 Answers

3
4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on January 08, 2013
at 03:31 AM

Well, as with anyone else who comes to me and says something about how we are not supposed to eat meat, I always present them with the same question.

If we are not supposed to consume meat, then how would we get the essential vitamin B12?

The answer - you wouldn't get it. We cannot live without it, and we cannot get it from fruits or vegetables. Only meat, vitamin pills, or some sort of grains fortified with it. Argument is over. Anyone can try all they want, but the skinny of it is we need that vitamin. In the real world of eating real food, there's no choice but to eat the meat.

I hope that answers your question! Eat meat, we ARE in fact born to do it.

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on January 08, 2013
at 04:59 AM

And one of a million links - http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/vegansources

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on January 08, 2013
at 03:59 AM

i thought our bodies made b-12 in the gut. i was a vegan for 5 years and always had excellent b-12 levels. i know we don't need meat in order to get it.

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on January 08, 2013
at 04:59 AM

Our bodies do not make it at all. You can google it and get a lot of info on it. From a vegan site, they say that vitamin b12 can be obtained from a bacteria and a couple other micro-organisms. This is then either fortified with vegan foods, or can be taken as a supplement. So I stand corrected, you don't absolutely need meat in order to get the vitamin, but you will need mass quantities of certain bacteria to produce it for you if you're going to avoid it. So, short of that, meat is in fact the only other way I can find on how we get B12.

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on January 09, 2013
at 12:28 AM

You're an enigma then, because that is backwards from how humans work. I very much agree, it doesn't make any sense. And I don't know where you read about our bodies making B12, but unfortunately not all things on the internet are true.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on January 08, 2013
at 11:50 AM

Or for that mater, true vitamin A, retinol. And who ever heard of fruit or vegetable sources of cholesterol?

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on January 08, 2013
at 08:35 PM

i've actually read a lot about our bodies making b12 in the small intestine. i always figured that's how i managed as a vegan since i never took supplements or ate b12 fortified food. since i started paleo, i've needed to add b-12 injections every week even though i eat about 1 lb of meat a day. it makes no sense to me. http://www.vibrancyuk.com/B12.html

2
97d98cdf2f18fa2c0bd8567ea1159609

on January 07, 2013
at 06:55 PM

My answer derives from personal experience.

I was a vegetarian for 14 months. During that time period my health deteriorated dramatically.

Since I started eating meat again, my health began to improve.

However, once I adopted a Paleo lifestyle and eliminated grains, I noticed dramatic positive changes in my health. My health continues to improve every day.

Therefore, the evidence from my dietary changes supports the argument meat benefits your health, whereas grains are detrimental to your health.

2
B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:37 PM

Tell your friend that (s)he's absolutely right: grains is good for you. meats is bad for you.

Then sit back and prove them wrong as they die a slow horrible death, while watching you eat bacon.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:40 PM

May take a few dozen years, but revenge is served best with a side of bacon

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on January 08, 2013
at 02:26 AM

Brianna, learn to recognize sarcasm.

61b5a48b4609fc0aeedd36b30a67cfa3

(40)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:40 PM

I can't do that they are my friend and its a little morbid.

1
2336245491a87ee15d4fb8f8f8283909

(1173)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:58 PM

Personally, I don't think it matters. I do equally well with or without meat. No difference.

1
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:47 PM

I think most anthropologist agree that we evolved from a vegetarian culture. And that meat eating was caused by a massive drought (a couple million years ago) which decimated plant life. We, as a species, became scavengers. Eating whatever rotted flesh we could find. The fat and protein initiated the evolution of the human brain.

So, more likely than not, we were lucky. Many species did not turn to scavenging and became extinct. We started to eat meat and it changed us into the species we are today. So, "are we born to eat it [meat]?" -- No, but we evolved to eat meat, because we ate meat.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 07:28 PM

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121004093508.htm -- "Meat eating has always been considered one of the things that made us human, with the protein contributing to the growth of our brains," said Charles Musiba, Ph.D., associate professor of anthropology at the University of Colorado Denver"

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on January 07, 2013
at 08:27 PM

Not sure I buy the plant-decimating drought that caused humans to start eating meat. The expansion of pre-humans into new habitat where prey was a key part of diet, yes.

782d92f4127823bdfb2ddfcbcf961d0e

(5231)

on January 07, 2013
at 09:24 PM

I'm not sure what the fuss is about...if meat-eating spurred the development of the human brain, then ergo, there must have been a time when our ancestors were vegetarian. Don't know about the cause for changing to meat-eating though.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 08, 2013
at 04:37 AM

What points to humans ever not eating meat CD? That's the sticking point. Why would we ever have avoided it? We've never been able to digest cellulose, and digest starches poorly unless they're cooked, so we're not good at extracting nutritional value from vegetation and most seeds. But we can easily gather and crack digestible things like clams, nuts and eggs. Not all are plant foods.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 07:28 PM

http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/~burton/foodcourse/meat-eating.htm -- "...the recent increase in hominid brain size based on dietary quality (a theme returned to by many participants) and linked the ability of genus Homo, in particular H. erectus, to produce a large-bodied, large-brained neonate to increasingly effective meat procurement by hunting."

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 08, 2013
at 02:53 PM

Obviously we don't know for certain, and I was too colloquial in my post. Fossil records indicate that Australopithecus are a predominately vegetable based diet, perhaps eggs, but unlikely much meat. Homo Habilis was the first omnivore, fossil records show little evidence of meat, but the tools are likely designed to pull meat off of a dead animal before other scavengers arrived. At a similar time, Homo Erectus began to build tools for hunting and show the first fossil records of meat consumption.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 07:28 PM

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html -- "Human ancestors who roamed the dry and open savannas of Africa about 2 million years ago routinely began to include meat in their diets to compensate for a serious decline in the quality of plant foods"

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 07:28 PM

type, evolutionary anthropology brain size into google.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 07, 2013
at 08:31 PM

-1. This is a collection of fairy tales for raising vegan self-esteem. Believe them if you need to, but they're on the level of Brer Rabbit stories.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 07:28 PM

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html -- "It was this new meat diet, full of densely-packed nutrients, that provided the catalyst for human evolution, particularly the growth of the brain"

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 08:35 PM

Wow, did not think this would be so hotly contested. When I took evolutionary anthropology this was just presented in the class as current theory. @thhq, how is it "vegan self-esteem" if the point is that eating meat, "provided the catalyst for human evolution".

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 08, 2013
at 02:54 PM

Which begot Homo sapiens only a few hundred thousand years ago.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 07:22 PM

which part do you want links to? That we started as vegetarians? or that protein initiated the evolution of the human brain?

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on January 07, 2013
at 06:03 PM

I'm going to call shenanigans on the first paragraph unless there's some links to back up the "most anthropologists" claim.

1
86c97b2779feab3c330f5e1c5fea7e25

(2312)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:22 PM

No one here is going to tell you that "grains are okay"...but some say that how our body parts are shaped (mouth, head, etc) and how our insides work to digest food are clear indications they we were not meant for meat.

This article goes over a lot of it and provides it's "evidence":

http://rense.com/general20/meant.htm

...but don't try to tell me I wan't made to eat bacon, cause that's just dumb

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:38 PM

Fermented bacon is totally fine.

3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:29 PM

Fermented grains are totally fine, in the absence of digestive disorders or autoimmune conditions.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 05:39 PM

@borofergie, is that bacon and beer?

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on January 08, 2013
at 11:49 AM

That article is a load of bison droppings. Spend some time to learn the truth: http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10533993 @Roth, fermented grains are not ok, they still contain gluten, whether you're showing symptoms or not, it's still damaging.

0
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on January 08, 2013
at 11:53 AM

Please take the time to watch this video, it will answer your questions, and then some: http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10533993 It's by Barry Groves, titled "Homo Carnivorous"

Also see: http://vimeo.com/32062337 "How to win an argument with a vegetarian" by Denise Minger

0
Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 07, 2013
at 08:27 PM

We are meant to eat whatever we can digest. Fruits, nuts and meat right from the start. Adaptation over the millenia allows some people to eat well beyond that, but some people cannot digest vegetable proteins like gluten, or milk protein (casein). For me, celiac disease is strong evidence that we were not meant to be vegans.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 07, 2013
at 08:49 PM

Gluten is primary found in cereal grains, I would not consider it a "vegetable protein". But if that's enough, than since eating polar bear liver is enough to kill a human, we weren't meant to eat meat either? tiger blowfish will kill you if not properly prepared -- fish are out. Insects? Nope. What were we meant to eat than?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 07, 2013
at 10:56 PM

Milk? Insects? I still think the concept of originally being vegetarians is propaganda though. The good thing about polar bear liver is that it's pretty hard to get.

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