1

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Inflammation from red meat

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 11, 2012 at 11:25 PM

I have eaten a paleo diet for at least 6 months now. I am pretty sensitive to what causes inflammation in my body. I can tell by getting a stuffy nose. I find that I get stuffy from eating red meat, especially steak. Does anyone know why this may be? Does anyone else experience this?

6714718e2245e5190017d643a7614157

on November 29, 2012
at 11:39 PM

Stabby Stabby Stabby Stabby Stabby Stabby Stabby !!!

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on November 12, 2012
at 07:35 PM

None that I know of, I'm just going by the same stories as you are. People could just do a self-test, go 100% gluten-free and do a week of grass-fed and a week of grain-fed. I suppose there could be other differences besides grain proteins but that's one explanation.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on November 12, 2012
at 07:03 PM

Curious if you have references to support soy, gluten, grain proteins in meat. I know many folks claim they react to corn-fed chicken, but I'm very suspect of such claims.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on November 12, 2012
at 07:00 PM

Actually to be honest i don't know if it's butyrate or bifidobacteria, but perhaps it's a moot point.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on November 12, 2012
at 06:58 PM

Constantly high butyrate concentrations which prevent intestinal damage*

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on November 12, 2012
at 06:57 PM

And the simplest explanation from reference 3 and 5 and 6 is that bile acids are reactive and impair the intestinal barrier's function, but those papers demonstrate that certain antioxidants and fiber prevent this. It stands to reason that perhaps humans are adapted to a diet where they eat their daily foragings with their daily hunting. Or maybe there's something else like constantly high butyrate concentrations, and it's not that we need to eat meals like that all of the time but simply maintain a large amount of butyrate, though the evidence for that is from mice in 7. I do all of them...

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on November 12, 2012
at 06:53 PM

Posted the link to the abstract. And yes it was the butter, although I can see how toast can be a confounder. I was also thinking of this one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20067961 where it was just the cream or orange juice or glucose drink, and the cream caused the endotoxemia. Some people are going to say that cream is dairy and that meat fat wouldn't do this, but my reasoning was that in reference 1 the higher fat meat produced more endotoxemia than the lower fat meat. I'm kind of ignoring what those researchers are saying and just using the simplest explanation.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 12, 2012
at 04:00 PM

Also, for reference 2, the high fat meal was tea, 3 slices of toast and butter. I don't know much about bacterial endotoxin but do you think that butter was the problem there?

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 12, 2012
at 03:57 PM

Can you repost the link for reference 1? I'd love to see it but the link doesn't work. thanks

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 12, 2012
at 03:56 PM

you rock.......

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on November 12, 2012
at 01:02 PM

Randy, check out Histamine Intolerance. Also, you should comment under the answer, so that the person who wrote the answer sees your response.

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5 Answers

5
Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on November 12, 2012
at 03:18 AM

There are multiple possibilities and many solutions, I will address them one by one.

  1. This first one is speculative, but I have seen a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest that if you are sensitive to certain grain proteins, which you just might be since you're eating a paleo diet, and you eat meat from an animal that has not evolved to eat large amounts of those grains, you will get small amounts of those grain proteins, possibly gluten, in your meat. If it is 100% grass-fed this risk should be minimal.

  2. Overcooking of meat. High heat cooking forms large amounts of compounds that can be inflammatory, damaging cells and triggering inflammation. While it is speculative as to whether or not there is much biological significance to exogenous AGEs, there are heterocyclic amines and cholesterol oxidation products to consider.

For those who are still skeptical about the negative effects of grilling and other high heat techniques cancer, pubmed "meat cooking techniques" and behold all of the studies where the simple act of controlling for harshness of cooking technique modifies the association between red meat and cancer risk, usually from high risk to no increased risk. This is epidemiology, and unreliable, and maybe glutathione levels can modulate risks, but come on, common sense. Adjusting for the factor the controls the carcinogen levels modifies cancer risk, who'da thunk it? Safe techniques are baking, slow cooking, boiling, and light frying. If you must go heavier, use a high antioxidant marinade.

3 . You may not be cooking it enough and are getting a hefty dose of live pathogens with it.

4 . Red meat is high in fats which induce intestinal barrier dysfunction and result in the translocation of endotoxin from the gut into the blood stream which trigger the inflammatory cascade. The mechanism is oxidative stress from the bile acids needed to digest fats, damaging the intestinal muscosal barrier(1)(2). Naturally, one would expect certain antioxidants to prevent this, and indeed many from fruit including oranges and grapes do.(3)(4) Dietary fiber has been shown to prevent this acutely (5)(6), and perhaps chronically (7), perhaps chronically via the actions of butyrate, a product of bacterial fermentation of fibers which protects the gut, and because it binds bile acids and facilitates their excretion (from 5 and 6).

Some may suggest other mechanisms, however I urge them to reconsider, as there is very little evidence, and some to contradict it, that red meat actually increases inflammation chronically (8). It can acutely under certain easily preventable circumstances that I have alluded to.

I advise people to purchase grass-fed meat, to not overcook it, and to eat a diet with a lot of fruit or other high flavanoid foods, and fiber, and then I think that there is little chance of such problems.

That is unless you have an allergy, in which case you have my deepest sympathies. Stuffy nose makes its plausible.

(1) http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=7879337&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S0007114510001042 (2) http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/86/5/1286.full (3) http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/91/4/940.full (4) http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/96/5/1409.full (5) http://edrv.endojournals.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/33/03_MeetingAbstracts/OR03-1 (6) http://www.springerlink.com/content/87145111527p5771/?MUD=MP (7) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17823788 (8) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17237312

I can respond to any questions, I suspect that there might be some.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 12, 2012
at 03:56 PM

you rock.......

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on November 12, 2012
at 06:53 PM

Posted the link to the abstract. And yes it was the butter, although I can see how toast can be a confounder. I was also thinking of this one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20067961 where it was just the cream or orange juice or glucose drink, and the cream caused the endotoxemia. Some people are going to say that cream is dairy and that meat fat wouldn't do this, but my reasoning was that in reference 1 the higher fat meat produced more endotoxemia than the lower fat meat. I'm kind of ignoring what those researchers are saying and just using the simplest explanation.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on November 12, 2012
at 07:03 PM

Curious if you have references to support soy, gluten, grain proteins in meat. I know many folks claim they react to corn-fed chicken, but I'm very suspect of such claims.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on November 12, 2012
at 07:00 PM

Actually to be honest i don't know if it's butyrate or bifidobacteria, but perhaps it's a moot point.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 12, 2012
at 04:00 PM

Also, for reference 2, the high fat meal was tea, 3 slices of toast and butter. I don't know much about bacterial endotoxin but do you think that butter was the problem there?

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on November 12, 2012
at 06:58 PM

Constantly high butyrate concentrations which prevent intestinal damage*

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on November 12, 2012
at 06:57 PM

And the simplest explanation from reference 3 and 5 and 6 is that bile acids are reactive and impair the intestinal barrier's function, but those papers demonstrate that certain antioxidants and fiber prevent this. It stands to reason that perhaps humans are adapted to a diet where they eat their daily foragings with their daily hunting. Or maybe there's something else like constantly high butyrate concentrations, and it's not that we need to eat meals like that all of the time but simply maintain a large amount of butyrate, though the evidence for that is from mice in 7. I do all of them...

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on November 12, 2012
at 07:35 PM

None that I know of, I'm just going by the same stories as you are. People could just do a self-test, go 100% gluten-free and do a week of grass-fed and a week of grain-fed. I suppose there could be other differences besides grain proteins but that's one explanation.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on November 12, 2012
at 03:57 PM

Can you repost the link for reference 1? I'd love to see it but the link doesn't work. thanks

6714718e2245e5190017d643a7614157

on November 29, 2012
at 11:39 PM

Stabby Stabby Stabby Stabby Stabby Stabby Stabby !!!

0
Df71255c6b6f96d29cc58f05b51ebe7e

on March 05, 2013
at 07:22 AM

Considering to take Trypsin Chymotrypsin along w/B1, B6, B12 to treat pain from a herniated disc. Is this a good idea. If so, what is the dosage can I take? What are the side effects/?

0
57da9bdc68b2588e9403e16183b04047

on November 12, 2012
at 02:08 AM

The only beef I eat is grass fed. Now, it might not always be certified organic and once in a while it will be grain and grass finished. I do not notice with lamb as much. Also, wild game or poultry I am completely fine with. I have had this for years but am more keen to it now after cutting out so many things.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on November 12, 2012
at 01:02 PM

Randy, check out Histamine Intolerance. Also, you should comment under the answer, so that the person who wrote the answer sees your response.

0
3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on November 11, 2012
at 11:43 PM

Possibly the quality or source of your steak....or the fact that its November and not every stuffy nose is a reaction to food. Could be either or just that you have a particular N=1 to beef....do you have this reaction to all foods that are high in iron and B vitamins? How about lamb? Game meat? Lots of avenues to consider.

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