8

votes

Eat Meat... and Nothing Else?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 23, 2011 at 12:43 AM

I have recently researched this quite a bit while writing a series of posts for my blog. (Part 1 here and Part 2 here)

My focus has been on Viljhalmur Stefansson, the Canadian Arctic explorer who lived on an all meat diet with various indigenous groups and again as part of a year-long experiment.

He noticed that he was more positive, focused, and felt healthier "on meat". The tests done by the research team bore these claims out as well.

Also, contrary to popular opinion, even among Paleo/Primal circles, he did not find that consuming offal or rare meats was required to sustain health.

He was a heavy meat eater all his life and lived to the ripe old age of 83.

My curiosity has obviously been aroused and I am wondering if anyone here has followed a meat-only regiment similar to Stefanssons. (Which, in case you are wondering, was comprised of flesh, fat, some organs, bones, and broths, but no eggs, dairy, or supplementation.)

(This is a picture of Stefansson while on expedition)

alt text

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 18, 2012
at 02:34 AM

It's worth noting that arctic animal's livers are toxic to people because of Vitamin A. It isn't surprising that the Inuit wouldn't eat that bit.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 25, 2011
at 01:06 AM

Very interesting, WCC Paul; thank you.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on August 25, 2011
at 12:44 AM

Stanley claims according to Wikipedia that his cancer was caused by HPV.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 07:20 PM

FED, I run into *exactly* that issue when I eat in a restaurant. The first few times I requested "fatty" brisket at the soul food place we frequent, I'd get it completely trimmed, despite the pains I took to specify I wanted fat. Probably because I requested no sauce, they figured I was going the "diet" route, lol.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 06:43 PM

Stefansson described difficulty when going out to eat because he would always request that the fat be left on. When the waiter came back, it was often with the fat removed. He theorized that this was due to the fact that he had said "something" about the fat, which 99% of the time is a request to cut it off, so they only would remember that he had mentioned "fat" and simply assumed that he wanted it trimmed. Almost 100 years later we're still dealing with the same thing!

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on August 23, 2011
at 05:50 PM

Rose, the other conjecture was some kind of microorganismic involvement, either in the gut, or something like candida that flourishes on any tiny amount of sugar I eat, or something more hidden like c. pneumoniae. In the latter case, I don't have a specific mechanism for why meat-only would help, but since ketosis affects the way mitochondria get energy, it might as a side-effect keep an infection at bay.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 05:33 PM

My original comment was "he did not find consuming offal and rare meats was required" which does not imply that it is not beneficial or that it was never practiced. When reading GCBC, I recall that Taubes discussed vitamin and other nutrient requirements changing as a result of high-carbohydrate intake. I found Stefansson's comments about organ meats (particularly those of large animals such as caribou and seal, since he does describe eating whole fish) to be interesting because it seemed to suggest a historical precedent for this.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 05:26 PM

Exactly! "Meat" is sometimes confused with lean muscle tissue. By "meat" Stefansson meant both "the fat and the lean" which ended up being approximately 3/4 of total daily calories from fat.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 05:24 PM

Thanks for sharing Ambi! It seems like a common thread between those who go to an all or mostly meat diet is that they have experienced relief from chronic conditions that did not respond to other interventions.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:56 PM

Ambimorph, somewhere you've got a concise listing of three possible mechanisms you entertain for the therapeutic effects of a meat diet. Carbs, plant toxins, and one other, iirc...? (And I've said it before, but that's never stopped me from quoting myself: I don't understand why it works; the benefits are so disproportionate to the change in carb intake, that it almost, but not totally, makes me skeptical that the issue is carbohydrate alone.)

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:53 PM

Isn't it ridiculous? We go to all this trouble to fatten the cows with grain, and then throw away all the extra fat we put on them. I hereby re-dub this modern age the "ridiculithic" era.

Fe6e37f8d4c49de1ecbc926c8900cd54

(1902)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:53 PM

Oh, I will add--I definitely increased satiety by reducing fruit/white potato intake. For what it's worth.

Fe6e37f8d4c49de1ecbc926c8900cd54

(1902)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:52 PM

Right? That's what I expected to happen. *shrug* Individual differences are interest.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:46 PM

Oh I'm very familiar with his entire experiment. We've all discussed it at length on this site. My point was only that anyone following one diet is going to report feeling good while on it. I was a vegan for a while and felt great, veg time too; I did all animal products for three months, felt fine, etc.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:19 PM

Very interesting, losterman. And I finally *found* satiety when I dropped plants as a food source, lol.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:07 PM

ra, I'd like to see that evidence too. The closest thing to studies on all-meat that I can find is the research by Phinney and Volek on ultra-ketogenic diets. There's just not enough interest in all-meat for research to happen, and I suspect that won't change, maybe ever. We carnies are an odd lot, lol. The best people like me can do at the moment is pay attention to the N=1s at places like ZIOH and DC.

Ec7cb2a7a68655954a01f03e95be1383

(1453)

on August 23, 2011
at 02:54 PM

You are glad you can still buy fatty meat. Here in Germany if I ask about it they look as if I just want to commit suicide and say they don't have fatty meat because all people want lean meat.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:27 PM

@Primordial: It was hard with just meat, that is true. These days, without adding butter, I average around 65% fat. With butter it goes up to 70%. (Well, on the days that I put into Nutritiondata.com -- I won't stake my life on those percentages.) And I also eat very fatty meat; brisket, ribeye, etc.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:25 PM

Or his cancer could have been caused by a great many other things; he was the soundman for the Grateful Dead, and also manufactured LSD. Who knows what he ingested during those years? Just a few more variables to consider.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 23, 2011
at 01:10 PM

You can go on Google books and search through his books. Eskimos always eat the whole fish, ethnographies are clear on that.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 23, 2011
at 01:09 PM

I love how The Bear blamed his cancer on some broccoli he ate as a child. No way it could be caused by his bizarre diet, no way at all. Denialism at its finest.

Ec7cb2a7a68655954a01f03e95be1383

(1453)

on August 23, 2011
at 12:40 PM

Sounds great! How dou you reach 70% fat with beef, steak, grounf beef and game? I think it is really protein rich.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 11:41 AM

@ben, Stefansson didn't follow "one way of eating". He started on a normal European "mixed" diet and was essentially forced to eat nothing but fish while wintering with an Eskimo family. He felt good, didn't develop scurvy, didn't witness anyone else get sick, and went on to employ such a regiment with men during his expeditions. This flew in the face of the "conventional wisdom" of the time and continues to do so. Which, is something that most of us can probably relate to.

37f4b3c51afbd92d259afaa171270874

(1219)

on August 23, 2011
at 04:25 AM

Some of the very passages used to describe the Eskimos throwing away the organs applied only to the organs of the body, while they did eat the organs of the head (brain, eye, tongue).

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:24 AM

Melissa, any sources or references that you can point me to? I'm not disagreeing or arguing, I'm genuinely curious and may add such information to the article.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on August 23, 2011
at 02:58 AM

Didn't feel as well as I do now, but at the time I would have said that I felt completely fine. As with Stefansson, all blood test parameters were within the normal ranges.

7c9f81d68c78de1a31eab9c91c17b4b8

on August 23, 2011
at 02:12 AM

Yay! Love your answer and your success speaks for itself.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 23, 2011
at 02:08 AM

Professional ethnographers have disagreed with Stefansson's conclusions and have found the Inuit do eat considerable amounts of organ meat and plants. Either way, you can look at Stefansson's books and they contradict that conclusion, as there are many references to eating organs and whole fish (including organs. Not surprising, since Stefansson was known to lie to get his way.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:38 AM

@fed, I'd have to disagree with your comment: I don't think most vegans would describe their energy or whatever with anything but those same words as Stefansson. Anyone following and maintaining one way of eating is going to report feeling well. It is only when they stop feeling well that they stop.

41dfb1a4fecb38d24075ff52f13ccb28

on August 23, 2011
at 01:37 AM

If I remember correctly, Bear's post also sparked one person going on a meat only diet that helped control her lupus, and I think it also sparked someone starting this forum: http://activenocarber.myfreeforum.org/index.php so that might help some.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:32 AM

I have roast chicken once a week, fresh fish/shellfish at least once a week, herring/sardines (lunch) about 2 or 3 times a week, and liver every couple of weeks. The rest of the time I'm pretty beef-intensive, with ground beef or steak for dinner, and leftovers for breakfast and/or lunch. And when hunting season's been good, there's a lot of elk and venison. Plus we make our own bacon once in a while. When I eat breakfast I'll fry some eggs and give the whites to my dog. I drink coffee, despite giving it up mumblety-dozen times. I average 1750 cals/day, 70% fat, the rest protein. Roughly, lol.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:22 AM

Thanks for the link, very interesting stuff! What kind of meat do you generally eat and what would be a "normal" day's intake?

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:16 AM

@ Melissa, it's not about proving anything. Many cultures DO eat organs and offal, which I wrote about in a previous post about the Comanche. Its about discussing the idea that you HAVE to eat offal in order to make a meat-only diet work. Stefansson disagreed with this point and it was also something that he observed in the Inuit groups he lived among.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:15 AM

@ Melissa, it's not about proving anything. Many cultures DO eat organs and offal, which I wrote about in a previous post about the Comanche. Its about discussing an the idea that you HAVE to eat offal in order to make a meat-only diet work. Stefansson disagreed with this point and it was also something that he observed in the Inuit groups he lived among.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:11 AM

But how did you feel? Stefansson describes having stamina, optimism, and good health while "on meat" which doesn't describe your typical vegan.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:07 AM

While he did eat offal in the experiment, in his book, "Fat of the Land", he described the traditional Inuit practice of feeding the organs to the dogs. Kids were given the kidneys, and if the organs weren't given to the dogs, it was because they were about to eat the dogs.

E639bc85fd42430285596434a6515ad5

(2226)

on August 23, 2011
at 12:57 AM

In the Cornell experiment, Stefansson's diet included "steaks, chops, brains fried in bacon fat, boiled short-ribs, chicken, fish, liver and bacon." (From your second link.) The liver and the brains count as offal, I think.

07154e6d8e42065f230d06249700fe5b

(2057)

on August 23, 2011
at 12:50 AM

I find that everyone involved in paleo eventually goes through a Stefansson phase. This too shall pass :P

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 23, 2011
at 12:46 AM

Viljhalmur Stefansson ate all-meat for a few years and that proves you don't need organ meats?

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7 Answers

19
3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:19 AM

Owsley Stanley (The Bear) ate this way, except for some heavy cream in his coffee, and some eggs. He claimed to have done it for nearly 50 years, and credits his survival of throat cancer to his all-meat diet.

My own eating for the last two years has been close to this, except I also eat eggs, and occasionally get stuck on the moo train for a few weeks at a time (heavy cream, cheese). For me, and for a few other people, this way of eating -- meat only -- has been a miracle. It resolved my terrible joint pain issues, got rid of the last 40 pounds that VLC couldn't, and most of all, relieved me of my constant, gnawing hunger. The joy of that last gift is almost impossible to describe to people who haven't experienced it. It's as if a dog that had been incessantly barking my whole life finally fell silent. I truly have inner peace, and I value that above all the other health benefits.

But although I love eating like this, I generally don't recommend it to folks who do fine eating some other way. There's no point restricting your diet if you don't need to; for me, this was a desperate measure that I honestly expected very little from, having gotten no or worse results from other desperate measures. This just happened to turn out to be the one that worked for me.

7c9f81d68c78de1a31eab9c91c17b4b8

on August 23, 2011
at 02:12 AM

Yay! Love your answer and your success speaks for itself.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 23, 2011
at 01:09 PM

I love how The Bear blamed his cancer on some broccoli he ate as a child. No way it could be caused by his bizarre diet, no way at all. Denialism at its finest.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:22 AM

Thanks for the link, very interesting stuff! What kind of meat do you generally eat and what would be a "normal" day's intake?

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:27 PM

@Primordial: It was hard with just meat, that is true. These days, without adding butter, I average around 65% fat. With butter it goes up to 70%. (Well, on the days that I put into Nutritiondata.com -- I won't stake my life on those percentages.) And I also eat very fatty meat; brisket, ribeye, etc.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:32 AM

I have roast chicken once a week, fresh fish/shellfish at least once a week, herring/sardines (lunch) about 2 or 3 times a week, and liver every couple of weeks. The rest of the time I'm pretty beef-intensive, with ground beef or steak for dinner, and leftovers for breakfast and/or lunch. And when hunting season's been good, there's a lot of elk and venison. Plus we make our own bacon once in a while. When I eat breakfast I'll fry some eggs and give the whites to my dog. I drink coffee, despite giving it up mumblety-dozen times. I average 1750 cals/day, 70% fat, the rest protein. Roughly, lol.

Ec7cb2a7a68655954a01f03e95be1383

(1453)

on August 23, 2011
at 02:54 PM

You are glad you can still buy fatty meat. Here in Germany if I ask about it they look as if I just want to commit suicide and say they don't have fatty meat because all people want lean meat.

41dfb1a4fecb38d24075ff52f13ccb28

on August 23, 2011
at 01:37 AM

If I remember correctly, Bear's post also sparked one person going on a meat only diet that helped control her lupus, and I think it also sparked someone starting this forum: http://activenocarber.myfreeforum.org/index.php so that might help some.

Ec7cb2a7a68655954a01f03e95be1383

(1453)

on August 23, 2011
at 12:40 PM

Sounds great! How dou you reach 70% fat with beef, steak, grounf beef and game? I think it is really protein rich.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:53 PM

Isn't it ridiculous? We go to all this trouble to fatten the cows with grain, and then throw away all the extra fat we put on them. I hereby re-dub this modern age the "ridiculithic" era.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 07:20 PM

FED, I run into *exactly* that issue when I eat in a restaurant. The first few times I requested "fatty" brisket at the soul food place we frequent, I'd get it completely trimmed, despite the pains I took to specify I wanted fat. Probably because I requested no sauce, they figured I was going the "diet" route, lol.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:25 PM

Or his cancer could have been caused by a great many other things; he was the soundman for the Grateful Dead, and also manufactured LSD. Who knows what he ingested during those years? Just a few more variables to consider.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on August 25, 2011
at 12:44 AM

Stanley claims according to Wikipedia that his cancer was caused by HPV.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 25, 2011
at 01:06 AM

Very interesting, WCC Paul; thank you.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 06:43 PM

Stefansson described difficulty when going out to eat because he would always request that the fat be left on. When the waiter came back, it was often with the fat removed. He theorized that this was due to the fact that he had said "something" about the fat, which 99% of the time is a request to cut it off, so they only would remember that he had mentioned "fat" and simply assumed that he wanted it trimmed. Almost 100 years later we're still dealing with the same thing!

9
Medium avatar

on August 23, 2011
at 12:51 AM

I had a vegan diet for 8 years and didn't die once, but I wouldn't use that as a defense of the vegan diet.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:11 AM

But how did you feel? Stefansson describes having stamina, optimism, and good health while "on meat" which doesn't describe your typical vegan.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 23, 2011
at 01:38 AM

@fed, I'd have to disagree with your comment: I don't think most vegans would describe their energy or whatever with anything but those same words as Stefansson. Anyone following and maintaining one way of eating is going to report feeling well. It is only when they stop feeling well that they stop.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 11:41 AM

@ben, Stefansson didn't follow "one way of eating". He started on a normal European "mixed" diet and was essentially forced to eat nothing but fish while wintering with an Eskimo family. He felt good, didn't develop scurvy, didn't witness anyone else get sick, and went on to employ such a regiment with men during his expeditions. This flew in the face of the "conventional wisdom" of the time and continues to do so. Which, is something that most of us can probably relate to.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on August 23, 2011
at 02:58 AM

Didn't feel as well as I do now, but at the time I would have said that I felt completely fine. As with Stefansson, all blood test parameters were within the normal ranges.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:46 PM

Oh I'm very familiar with his entire experiment. We've all discussed it at length on this site. My point was only that anyone following one diet is going to report feeling good while on it. I was a vegan for a while and felt great, veg time too; I did all animal products for three months, felt fine, etc.

4
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:40 PM

My experience is similar to Rose's. I've been eating basically only meat for nearly two years. I love a wide variety of foods, so I wouldn't still be doing this if it weren't the best personal health discovery I've ever made. It normalized both my weight and my moods, which were quite dysfunctional before.

I do eat eggs now and then, and liver or more rarely other organs when I get a hankering -- maybe once or twice a month on average. Dairy I eat a little of once in a while, and I supplement with various things, like iodine, magnesium, D3, and vitamin C, for various reasons.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 05:24 PM

Thanks for sharing Ambi! It seems like a common thread between those who go to an all or mostly meat diet is that they have experienced relief from chronic conditions that did not respond to other interventions.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:56 PM

Ambimorph, somewhere you've got a concise listing of three possible mechanisms you entertain for the therapeutic effects of a meat diet. Carbs, plant toxins, and one other, iirc...? (And I've said it before, but that's never stopped me from quoting myself: I don't understand why it works; the benefits are so disproportionate to the change in carb intake, that it almost, but not totally, makes me skeptical that the issue is carbohydrate alone.)

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on August 23, 2011
at 05:50 PM

Rose, the other conjecture was some kind of microorganismic involvement, either in the gut, or something like candida that flourishes on any tiny amount of sugar I eat, or something more hidden like c. pneumoniae. In the latter case, I don't have a specific mechanism for why meat-only would help, but since ketosis affects the way mitochondria get energy, it might as a side-effect keep an infection at bay.

3
99a6e964584f20f3f69ad3a70a335353

(1334)

on August 23, 2011
at 02:21 PM

I would rather see more evidence supporting the health of an all-meat diet, particularly one that leaves out organ meats (which I find unpalatable in general) than Stefansson's N=1 experimentation and anthropological studies of Inuit.

Whether or not vegetables are necessary for survival, I find them tasty when properly made, so without evidence of harm, I don't wish to cut them out.

However, if it works for you, go for it. The only vitamin I know of that you don't get from meat or synthesize (yourself or your gut flora) in reasonable quantity is vitamin C, and if you eat cow liver, you'll get that.

I think the balance of the evidence suggests that humans thrive on a vast variety of foods, and anywhere from all-animal to high-carb may be a part of that, and the main thing is to avoid inflammatory gluten and seed oils, and fattening amounts of sugar (particularly fructose).

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:07 PM

ra, I'd like to see that evidence too. The closest thing to studies on all-meat that I can find is the research by Phinney and Volek on ultra-ketogenic diets. There's just not enough interest in all-meat for research to happen, and I suspect that won't change, maybe ever. We carnies are an odd lot, lol. The best people like me can do at the moment is pay attention to the N=1s at places like ZIOH and DC.

2
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on August 23, 2011
at 02:33 AM

The amount of fat is also important. You would want to keep your fat consumption high.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on August 23, 2011
at 05:26 PM

Exactly! "Meat" is sometimes confused with lean muscle tissue. By "meat" Stefansson meant both "the fat and the lean" which ended up being approximately 3/4 of total daily calories from fat.

2
Fe6e37f8d4c49de1ecbc926c8900cd54

on August 23, 2011
at 01:49 AM

Two thoughts to preface... 1) I think humans can survive--and even thrive--on a lot of different diets. 2) I think there's an enormous amount of individual variation in what is best for any given person's well-being.

But you asked about personal experimentation, so I will say that I have indeed tried short stints eating only meat and eggs (mostly muscle meat--no organ meat, no dairy, some stock/broth, no supplements other than some Vit D), and I was very surprised to find that my satiety suffered. I felt fine, I guess--didn't notice feeling much change re: energy levels or mood, but satiety, for me at least, is a large component of well-being. And for me personally, that means throwing in some high-fiber and/or starchy veggies with my meals.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:19 PM

Very interesting, losterman. And I finally *found* satiety when I dropped plants as a food source, lol.

Fe6e37f8d4c49de1ecbc926c8900cd54

(1902)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:52 PM

Right? That's what I expected to happen. *shrug* Individual differences are interest.

Fe6e37f8d4c49de1ecbc926c8900cd54

(1902)

on August 23, 2011
at 03:53 PM

Oh, I will add--I definitely increased satiety by reducing fruit/white potato intake. For what it's worth.

-2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 23, 2011
at 12:24 PM

I eat an all meat diet. I have been doing so for a couple years now and have always eaten a low carb diet even as a child. My diet is completely, 100% meat. I normally eat aged grain fed beef. I do not believe there are huge benefits to grass fed beef, but I do avoid meat from cows fed antibiotics. People who talk about eating all these organs are full of it. They were dog food.

I used to be a big biker and runner. I would bike up 3k foot mountains, yet I still had a thin layer of fat on my stomach. Now, I just moderately lift weights. I have the least fat I've ever had.

I probably eat about 85% of my calories from fat. One of the reasons I eat grain fed beef is because of the increase in fat. If I go below this, I start to feel not so good. My total calorie intake is over 5000 per day. I'm a living testimony to how bogus any calories in vs. calories out theories are.

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