13

votes

Are you an ethical Predator?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created December 02, 2010 at 7:04 PM

If you read http://voraciouseats.com/2010/11/19/a-vegan-no-more and worked your way through the comments, there were many great things in there, but one thing has stuck in my head in particular.

Anand says at http://voraciouseats.com/2010/11/19/a-vegan-no-more/#comment-7703

I believe that of all the species on the planet, we are of the only one that can provide our animal food a good life and a death free from pain and fear. No other predator does nor can they. If we are truly enlightened, we must pursue this assiduously.

What are your ethics regarding meat sourcing?

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on January 28, 2011
at 01:40 PM

I took the time to read *Eating Animals the Nice Way* and rather wish I had not. That was quite a lot of words to sneak up on the idea that his described "benign carnivorism" is ethically wrong because 'The animals’ interest in continuing to live outweighs the human interest in eating them.' As I do not agree with this statement, the rest of his argument is left rather unsupported. I am nice to animals before killing them because I rather enjoy being kind. The fact that happy animals are a better nutrition source for me over unhappy or sickly animals, only helps me be as nice as possible.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on January 28, 2011
at 12:35 PM

I'm nice to animals because as a conscious, logical, analytical being, I am able to be. I eat them because that's what I'm made to eat. It's as simple as that for me. I have a simple thought exercise that I do. If there were a cataclysmic event and in an instant modernization was taken from us, what would survival look like? Meat is the most plenteous and nutritionally dense food out there so im betting you wouldn't see many vegetarians.

C16d506f10d910db0736bfd0d0e3809a

(10)

on December 05, 2010
at 10:43 PM

I like your son's attitude, and I try to keep that in mind myself. Maybe I should start saying it out loud to keep myself honest :)

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 05, 2010
at 01:49 PM

"Their attitudes towards meat and killing are more unrealistic than the attitudes of Victorian nuns towards sex." this just barely beats out the last line as the best sentence in this great answer.

Ce0b5fd94b1034e96cf710b6f138c29d

(4089)

on December 03, 2010
at 09:42 PM

The fishing in Florida is fantastic, and there's an outfitter near Okeechobee that does guided spear hunting trips for feral hogs. That's definitely on my list...

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on December 02, 2010
at 08:37 PM

"Not perfect, but ... well on our way to owning the title." Sounds right. Better as much as possible than not at all.

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8 Answers

best answer

12
Ce0b5fd94b1034e96cf710b6f138c29d

on December 03, 2010
at 12:07 PM

The best way to be an ethical predator? Do your own predation, use enough gun, with loads that match the game, and don't take marginal shots.

The grouse that I had for dinner last night (sauteed with mushrooms and shallots) lived a normal grouse lifestyle until last Sunday afternoon, when it flushed from a fenceline, probably not so much scared of me as just being cautious, and I shot it.

When I got to the bird, it had taken some pellets to the neck and head, was bleeding from the eyes and beak, and had some random muscle spasms going on, which is sign that it had died pretty much instantly from massive brain trauma. I wrung its neck anyhow, just on general principles. It probably never even realized what was going on.

Compare that to what your average CAFO chicken goes through, or a grouse that gets eaten by other predators (I doubt that the hawks are as concerned about humane killing as I am).

And really, don't worry too much about what the vegans say. The more I get exposed to vegan thinking, the more I'm inclined to dismiss them as a bunch of silly, ecopsychologically immature Disney-brainwashed cranks who really haven't got the faintest idea as to what they are and hugely in denial about how they fit into the ecosystem. Their attitudes towards meat and killing are more unrealistic than the attitudes of Victorian nuns towards sex.

We're omnivorous opportunistic predators. Killing and eating animals is what we do to live, and it's only the fact that we live so terribly disconnected from nature, in an industrial society where we have no exposure to how our food is produced, that enables vegans to deny this fact and claim that predation is immoral. Which is clearly a crock; ecology transcends human morality.

IMHO, everybody should hunt or fish at least once in their lives; it helps you gain a better understanding of what it means to be alive, what it is to be human, how our ancestors lived, and how the world works.

Also, it's a heck of a lot of fun and good, incredibly Paleo exercise if you do it right.

Meat is murder, and meat that you've murdered yourself tastes better.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on December 05, 2010
at 01:49 PM

"Their attitudes towards meat and killing are more unrealistic than the attitudes of Victorian nuns towards sex." this just barely beats out the last line as the best sentence in this great answer.

4
89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e

(10299)

on September 07, 2013
at 12:44 AM

The only reliable source of grass fed beef and lamb over here (Belgium) is from animals that graze and live in our 'nature reserves' (look up how big Belgium is and you will know why I use the ''). These animals are not even selected for their meat production. They are selected because they are robust and can live without farmers. Although they do have somebody watching after them.

Because the reproduce, and because there are no natural predators, some of them are slaughtered. I think that this is the most ethical to get your meat.

Sometimes I think that it would be better if we would be involved more with the animals that we eat (although admittedly not possible). Traditional people all over the world respect the animals they eat. A lot of Western people just buy it in the supermarket, almost forgotten that meat was once an animal.

I try to be grateful when eating. My little 3 year old son now says 'thank you cow' if he eats a grass fed burger. It's a bit funny, but I think it is good for kids to realise that meat is animal flesh.

C16d506f10d910db0736bfd0d0e3809a

(10)

on December 05, 2010
at 10:43 PM

I like your son's attitude, and I try to keep that in mind myself. Maybe I should start saying it out loud to keep myself honest :)

2
0242b468fe1c97997749db416c92e7ed

(4528)

on September 07, 2013
at 12:44 AM

I believe that of all the species on the planet, we are of the only one that can provide our animal food a good life and a death free from pain and fear. No other predator does nor can they. If we are truly enlightened, we must pursue this assiduously.

Love that quote.

My family is 110% better than we once were - I source pastured chicken, beef, goat meat, cultured butter and farm eggs through a local "real food" buyers club, but we're still prone to the occasional shopping spree at Costco for fancy ribeye steaks or pork ribs. We also get weekly boxes of fruits and veggies through our local CSA. In other words, we're not perfect, but I think we're well on our way to owning the title "ethical predators."

I don't know how many San Antonians are on Paleohacks, but RealfoodSA.com is an incredible goldmine of resources for anyone in the SA area interested in organic, pastured, local, REAL food. Just subscribe to RealfoodSA's Yahoo Group, you'll receive email notices whenever a new buying opportunity is available.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on December 02, 2010
at 08:37 PM

"Not perfect, but ... well on our way to owning the title." Sounds right. Better as much as possible than not at all.

2
23e12b6f370a326165c219ea46b06a18

on December 02, 2010
at 08:12 PM

I completely agree! Since going Primal I have questioned my butchers, egg farmers etc on their humane practices. For me this just happened after seeing Food Inc. and now I'm much more aware of this and it just feels right to be!

1
16846467115e18d283565a19c374ee07

(323)

on December 03, 2010
at 02:17 PM

I buy organic chicken and eggs and everything else conventional :/. If anyone knows of a local butcher in the South Florida area (nearest one I've been able to find is like 3 hours away) then please let me know!

And hunting in S FL is not at all a possibility. Well, besides fishing, really

Ce0b5fd94b1034e96cf710b6f138c29d

(4089)

on December 03, 2010
at 09:42 PM

The fishing in Florida is fantastic, and there's an outfitter near Okeechobee that does guided spear hunting trips for feral hogs. That's definitely on my list...

1
62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on December 03, 2010
at 03:01 AM

I am not yet perfect but I am working in that direction. I have found some good sources of grass fed meat and I now get my eggs from a nice lady down the street who owns her own chickens and I have personally inspected the good conditions of the chickens myself. I think it's wonderful when health and a good conscious can go hand in hand.

0
800e726cb5dff569fd8edf604c3e2793

on March 08, 2013
at 09:14 PM

I'm an ethical predator with ethics appropriate to the top-of-the-food-chain species.

0
034c678bff434ab3781e3f1771018af9

(279)

on January 28, 2011
at 12:14 PM

The idea that being nice to an animal before killing it somehow justifies the killing doesn't add up. That's why I don't eat any animal products. For a solid argument against consuming animal products see philosopher Jeff McMahan's 'Eating Animals the Nice Way': http://www.fas.rutgers.edu/cms/phil/dmdocuments/Eating_Animals_the_Nice_Way.pdf

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on January 28, 2011
at 01:40 PM

I took the time to read *Eating Animals the Nice Way* and rather wish I had not. That was quite a lot of words to sneak up on the idea that his described "benign carnivorism" is ethically wrong because 'The animals’ interest in continuing to live outweighs the human interest in eating them.' As I do not agree with this statement, the rest of his argument is left rather unsupported. I am nice to animals before killing them because I rather enjoy being kind. The fact that happy animals are a better nutrition source for me over unhappy or sickly animals, only helps me be as nice as possible.

66e6b190e62fb3bcf42d4c60801c7bf6

(12407)

on January 28, 2011
at 12:35 PM

I'm nice to animals because as a conscious, logical, analytical being, I am able to be. I eat them because that's what I'm made to eat. It's as simple as that for me. I have a simple thought exercise that I do. If there were a cataclysmic event and in an instant modernization was taken from us, what would survival look like? Meat is the most plenteous and nutritionally dense food out there so im betting you wouldn't see many vegetarians.

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