3

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Alternative PHD meats

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 03, 2012 at 6:00 PM

The PHD book mentions beef and lamb as good meats to consume regularly in addition to fish. It specifically mentions to avoid chicken becuase of the high O6 content. Does the same apply to other birds like Turkey? What other meats can I include safely? I'm considering grass-fed Bison, Goat, and Venison but maybe I missed some others? I realize that some of those aren't so fatty but I'll cook liberally in fatty oils.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:30 PM

pastured goat and bison are fine like pastured beef and lamb. Game meats like venison should be fine too. Pastured turkey will be like pastured chicken - better than conventional but not as good as pastured red and ruminant meats (ie beef, goat, bison, venison,)

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:26 PM

I don't think a pound of fish makes up for a ton of conventional chicken or other high omega 6 ratio foods. PHD recommends chicken in lower amounts - not primary source of animal protein/fat!

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 04, 2012
at 01:42 PM

Matt, they have a lengthy section on PUFAs with a number of citations, though I don't have the time (nor inclination to be honest) to look thru to answer your question. Me, I find the Lands' argument about lowering PUFA in general (see Stephan's posts, e.g. http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/05/eicosanoids-and-ischemic-heart-diseas.html) compelling.

6869a1f2294b3a717a53645589a91d18

(1689)

on January 04, 2012
at 03:47 AM

the advice is not to avoid chicken protein, but to avoid chicken fat.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on January 04, 2012
at 03:15 AM

Do they reference studies that looked at non-plant PUFAs in diet?

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 03, 2012
at 10:51 PM

Here's the actual language from PHD: "Overall, we want omega-6 fats to be 2% to 4% of total calories, or 3% to 6% of fat calories. Since meats provide half or more of dietary fats, we need our meats to average less than 5% of fat calories as omega-6." This is pretty much spot on with Bill Lands' recommendations re PUFA. So yes, if you're going to eat PUFA, better it be from a well-fed animal than from a veggie oil. But there are also benefits from keeping overall PUFA low too.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on January 03, 2012
at 09:07 PM

I haven't seen too many studies on PUFAs in diet, let alone trying to separate PUFAs from animals vs plants. I would guess there is quite a difference in quality of PUFAs from a piece of fatty pork or chicken skin versus processed/refined corn oil. But then, I guess the Jaminets sell their book as the "perfect" health diet, not the "pretty darn good" health diet.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on January 03, 2012
at 09:03 PM

I'm all for eating chicken or turkey when it's chicken or turkey, but when you grind it up and try to substitute it for beef or pork, that's criminal! I cringe when I see folks talk of "turkey burgers"...

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on January 03, 2012
at 07:34 PM

Exactly. Avoiding chicken is not anywhere near as important as avoiding donuts for gosh sakes! It's just that the MSM has been labelling chicken as healthy - especially skinless boneless tasteless chicken breast - whereas red meat has an unfair bad rap. Don't fear the red meat, because it's actually slightly better for you. That doesn't mean you have to be afraid of the chicken. In fact, chicken skin has goodness in it that you can't get from a steak (glycerine).

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3 Answers

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7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 03, 2012
at 06:21 PM

Kurt Harris takes the same approach as the Jaminets:

Favor grass-fed ruminants like beef and lamb for your red meat. These meats have excellent n-6/n-3 ratios and their saturated and monounsaturated fats are a great fuel source. Wild game is good if you can process it yourself- but commercial venison and bison is too lean and is expensive.

Basically, it more or less boils down to you are what you eat eats ... this is one of the big plusses for eating grass-fed meat. They tend to turn those grasses into useful nutrients for us.

Me personally, I still eat pastured chicken as well as occasional turkey and pork, but I tend to eat those more as a lean protein source and less as a healthy fat source.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on January 03, 2012
at 09:07 PM

I haven't seen too many studies on PUFAs in diet, let alone trying to separate PUFAs from animals vs plants. I would guess there is quite a difference in quality of PUFAs from a piece of fatty pork or chicken skin versus processed/refined corn oil. But then, I guess the Jaminets sell their book as the "perfect" health diet, not the "pretty darn good" health diet.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 03, 2012
at 10:51 PM

Here's the actual language from PHD: "Overall, we want omega-6 fats to be 2% to 4% of total calories, or 3% to 6% of fat calories. Since meats provide half or more of dietary fats, we need our meats to average less than 5% of fat calories as omega-6." This is pretty much spot on with Bill Lands' recommendations re PUFA. So yes, if you're going to eat PUFA, better it be from a well-fed animal than from a veggie oil. But there are also benefits from keeping overall PUFA low too.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on January 04, 2012
at 03:15 AM

Do they reference studies that looked at non-plant PUFAs in diet?

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 04, 2012
at 01:42 PM

Matt, they have a lengthy section on PUFAs with a number of citations, though I don't have the time (nor inclination to be honest) to look thru to answer your question. Me, I find the Lands' argument about lowering PUFA in general (see Stephan's posts, e.g. http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/05/eicosanoids-and-ischemic-heart-diseas.html) compelling.

2
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on January 03, 2012
at 06:30 PM

Are they saying to avoid chicken altogether or as a primary protein source? I'd say eat a variety of proteins and you're much better off. Preoccupation with one protein source seems short-sighted. Beef is only good, because of its low total PUFA content. Beef's ratio is only slightly better than pork or chicken.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on January 03, 2012
at 07:34 PM

Exactly. Avoiding chicken is not anywhere near as important as avoiding donuts for gosh sakes! It's just that the MSM has been labelling chicken as healthy - especially skinless boneless tasteless chicken breast - whereas red meat has an unfair bad rap. Don't fear the red meat, because it's actually slightly better for you. That doesn't mean you have to be afraid of the chicken. In fact, chicken skin has goodness in it that you can't get from a steak (glycerine).

6869a1f2294b3a717a53645589a91d18

(1689)

on January 04, 2012
at 03:47 AM

the advice is not to avoid chicken protein, but to avoid chicken fat.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on January 03, 2012
at 09:03 PM

I'm all for eating chicken or turkey when it's chicken or turkey, but when you grind it up and try to substitute it for beef or pork, that's criminal! I cringe when I see folks talk of "turkey burgers"...

1
293ba4c95d190bc616b27d85b10d705a

(661)

on January 03, 2012
at 07:23 PM

i think as long as youre eating a lb of fish a week youre okay

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:26 PM

I don't think a pound of fish makes up for a ton of conventional chicken or other high omega 6 ratio foods. PHD recommends chicken in lower amounts - not primary source of animal protein/fat!

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