7

votes

Malabsorption, calories, and hunger

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created April 20, 2013 at 12:55 PM

I do paleo for 1.5+ years now, and I will continue doing so for life, for health reasons. In that time, I also did paleo-ketogenic for a few months too. I have lost very little weight in all that time (15 lbs), I'm still obese (must lose another 40-45 lbs). I can only lose weight if I calorie-restrict myself below 1100 calories a day. The problem is that I can't keep that for more than 3 days. Yes, I do eat enough fat, and I restrict my carbs, and I eat fermented foods, good fats, offal, and all the shebang. I'm not interested to talk about my macros, or what I eat in the morning, or if i have reset my leptin. I'm not new to paleo, keto or low carb, and I read a lot around here too, for years now.

My question is different instead: Is it possible, when you have malabsorption like me, and you can't fix it anymore (10 years of undetected celiac has destroyed me inside), for your brain to keep asking for food all the time, thinking that I didn't have enough to eat? Is it possible that when I give in, and I eat what my body asks of me (usually between 1700 and 2000 calories per day), that my body stores all this energy (keeping me fat), even if certain nutrients don't make it through as they should? If that's so, how do I fix the chicken and the egg problem? I simply can't lose weight unless I also calorie-restrict, in addition to paleo-keto, and I can't calorie-restrict because I get super-hungry, and my thyroid starts acting up badly (I fall into a sort of hybernation, and get really cold -- no problems when I eat normal paleo though, up to 100 gr of net carbs per day/2000 cals).

Some more info: I'm sedentary because I'm super tired all the time, especially after I eat (eg after eating eggs/bacon with no/few carbs for breakfast). I'm constantly tired and hungry. My triglycerides are near 200, still have a fatty liver, and that's after Paleo too! Please give me some clues to this last problem I'm facing. I fixed many health problems with Paleo, but that's the last one that persists.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 21, 2013
at 07:15 AM

I'm sedentary NOW. The cardio was MORE than a year ago.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 21, 2013
at 05:08 AM

Wow... If you ever get a hold of this elixir in real life or find a good gut doctor - please share with us.

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on April 20, 2013
at 10:00 PM

I've actually had this dream where I discover an elixir that when I drink it, coats my gut and magically heals it. Possible sign that I'm on PH and obsessing about this too much? lol

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 20, 2013
at 09:45 PM

And you're sedentary, but did boring cardio regularly? Yeah, not getting a full story... whatever. Downvotes for suggesting to increase total activity levels? Genius, PH'ers!

048dd52752c45129c1212bfffb37ca72

(3150)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:56 PM

Yes, the book is more straightforward, It's all the same concept but it's explained in a more understandable way, in my opinion. Well, I've read 60% by now (got it a few days ago) but I expect the rest to be in the same line.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:50 PM

I hear you... I would do ANYTHING to get my gut back to normal. Tired of eating same old stuff every day.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:49 PM

I read Kruse, thx. I give priority to oysters, take q10.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:47 PM

These are not new details. I mentioned malabsorption and undetected celiac for 10 years .

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:46 PM

Is his book easier to read than his website?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:42 PM

See, more details come out... If you've really screwed up your GI, your B12 levels might be hard to normalize, at least that's the word on the street. Though I still throw my vote to aggregate activity being low.

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:41 PM

Yeah, I've done this with the meat, fish, low FODMAP veggies too. It does work. About 2 weeks in I totally lose my appetite to eat anything. Chewing meat makes me gag. I feel like I would sell my foot for a piece of fruit! I can usually hang in for a month, then I freak one day and eat blueberries and am so happy. :) Need to give that one a run again...

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:21 PM

Thank you for the comment RK! Will continue the fight too! :)

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:18 PM

I mean, consider that I'd eat meat daily, liver/oysters multiple times a week, and I'd still have B12 deficiency. I almost told my doctor to not test for it, thinking that I was eating lots of it. Nope, my body was just not working right. I couldn't believe the blood test result.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:13 PM

Matt, I exercised for 2 months Feb-Mar 2012 (treadmill running), during paleo-keto, but I only started losing weight when I calorie-restricted. That's how it really went down. And given the personal pain I have gone through all these years with many health issues, and then doing my best to fix them after discovering Paleo, calling my reply bullshit, is unfair. Besides, I am not alone in this, I've seen others on reddit/r/Paleo and here having similar problems. We're not all... metabolically deranged the same way.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 07:37 PM

Btw Euginia I think you're a unique beautiful snowflake :)).

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 06:35 PM

Btw Eugina I think you're a unique beautiful snowflake :)).

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 06:32 PM

Matt, I'm beginning to think You're the unique metabolic snowflake, being one of few whom I know that respond favorably to exclusively Slow State Cardio. When I go to the gym the regular slow state cardioers are maybe 90% of what I'd call metabolically fucked (either too fat or too skinny). Unless you'd care to point to a study showing jogging favorably effects body composition I'd appreciate it if you not call people with different experiences than your own bullshitters.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 20, 2013
at 05:05 PM

Yeah, I don't believe your claim of being some unique metabolic snowflake. It's bullshit, sorry.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 04:44 PM

Matt, while on my paleo-keto phase, I actually ran for 20_30 mins a day, last year. It didn't help. I will try HIIT now as suggested just because it seems to offer different results, but otherwise, exercise didn't do it for me.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 04:37 PM

HIIT is probably unnecessary for very otherwise active and fit individuals. For those who are basically broken though, HIIT becomes increasingly necessary.

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on April 20, 2013
at 04:31 PM

Thx, Stephen, I'm planning on looking into it. My neighborhood pool is almost warm enough to hop into, so I think that will be a good thing to add in the next month or so. Thanks for all the good info.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 04:25 PM

You'd also benefit from incorporating some form of HIIT, like sprint 8 RK.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 03:43 PM

Okay, be careful though, if you don't already sprint periodically, going from untrained to sprinting may cause a injury. It might be even better to start off either by swimming or waiting till you get home and can use a lower impact HIIT technique like an elliptical or maybe a stationary bicycle.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 03:41 PM

Yea, then we're on the same page dragonfly, I agree with you. Going from untrained and obese to sprinting is an injury waiting to happen, especially at the intensity I recommend.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on April 20, 2013
at 03:39 PM

Yeah, it's just the running I recommend against, Stephen. HIIT on ellipticals/bikes is fine, but that isn't what Eugenia said she was going to do.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 03:28 PM

Thank you Dragonfly, I will try fasting on the days that I don't HIIT.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 03:25 PM

I have my vibrams with me ;)

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 03:23 PM

TF, Dragonfly's reccomendation against running right off thr bat is very, very sound. Where I may disagree with her, though I'm not sure of her stance exactly is that HIIT on low impact stationary bikes and ellipticals are perfectly safe and encourageable for most anybody (assuming you don't have a special medical condition/your doctor says its fine). You definitely Do Not want to risk injury, if you can't do it on an elliptical or a bike or another low impact technique like swimming, then you either want to be very careful or possibly not do it at all.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 03:13 PM

I agree and disagree with dragonfly. Running puts you at high risk for injury since you aren't already in great shape. While running is a great way to do HIIT/sprint 8 and to stay in shape, you might want to work up to it. Personally I recommend doing a HIIT program on an elliptical or a stationary bike in the beginning because there is much less chance of injury that way. Starting off by running can be dangerous. I'm relatively athletic but got shin splints from sprinting in bad shoes for a week or two. Dr Mercola pulled a hamstring sprinting. Ease into it on low impact machines to be safe.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 02:46 PM

Excellent to hear. One caveat on running is to be careful if you're out of shape. Running on a track in bad shoes for a week or so gave me shin splints so I switched to an elliptical with good results. Now I'm doing high knee plyometric sets on couch couchins. Sounds wired I know but I don't have gym access right now and I love being able to lay down between sets to recover. Laying down between Truly intense HIIT sets is like laying down down in bed at 3am after a night of drinking, it's THE best feeling.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 02:22 PM

Thank you, will definitely try it starting tomorrow, with running, since I'm on vacations ATM, with no access to fitness tools.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 02:21 PM

I swear that 70% of the question on PH could be answered with, do some HIIT.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 02:10 PM

Running in place, but I can do this at my place, and I between sets I'm literally on the floor. So far I'm finding those really fun.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 02:09 PM

Basically, I agree. As long as an individual is getting their high intensity in, be it swimming, rowing, ellipticaling, bicycling, sprinting, jumping, plyometricing, from asylum or insanity, as long as they are getting bursts of high intensity anaerobic exercise in a safe environment where they aren't at risk of injury, there really are a limitless number of ways to do HIIT. I like Sprint 8 because most people Ive met feel like they can do 30 seconds of anything, and 1:30 is usually enough rest time for them to do it again (unlike 10 seconds in tabata). I've recently been doing high knee

0e395acc856e3353f3f5892e6b09b0e7

(1227)

on April 20, 2013
at 02:01 PM

Eugenia, I don't have an answer for you, but have followed your progress and appreciate your comments on the good natural foods of Greece. I hope others will have more answers. Malabsorption is a bitch. My sister has it. She is following FODMAP protocol, but I don't know if that has helped her yet. I hope you keep commenting.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 20, 2013
at 01:57 PM

...and sometimes i just go for a run and find a nice steep grassy hill at the beginning of it and do maybe a dozen sets on that, then finish a regular run (like 2.5-4 miles, typically). variety is the spice of life brother. And I, like you, lean towards the ecto side of meso, and have also found HIIT an invaluable asset in lean body mass acquisition.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 20, 2013
at 01:48 PM

Well, I do all types of HIIT. I do a lot of plyometric workouts that last around 30 minutes. Sometimes I throw on the Shaun T plyometric workouts in "insanity" or "the asylum," or I create them myself. if I am at the gym, I like to HIIT on the treadmill with 40 second to 1 minutes of full sprinting followed by 40-60 seconds of jogging/ easy running (not walking briskly) for 20 mins. When I'm outside I like to go to the beach and do a dozen sprint repeats (maybe 50 yards..sprint 50, walk back, sprint again). If fat loss is my goal, I like to follow the HIIT up with LISS for 20-60 minutes.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 20, 2013
at 01:47 PM

Well, I do all types of HIIT. I do a lot of plyometric workouts that last around 30 minutes. Sometimes I throw on the Shaun T plyometric workouts in "insanity" or "the asylum," or I create them myself. if I am at the gym, I like to HIIT on the treadmill with 40 second to 1 minutes of full sprinting followed by 40-60 seconds of jogging/ easy running (not walking briskly). When I'm outside I like to go to the beach and do a dozen sprint repeats (maybe 50 yards..sprint 50, walk back, sprint again). If fat loss is my goal, I like to follow the HIIT up with LISS for 20-60 minutes.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 01:37 PM

If I'm doing Sprint 8 though, I can eat at golden corral and Wendy's like every day and not break out and lose weight in my waist. I tend towards ectomorph though so I don't know if that effects it. I just know that I see my best lean gains when overfeeding along with Sprint 8.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 01:34 PM

That's true. I recommend Sprint 8 because it works Really well for **me** at controlling my waist and my acne. If I go a month without doing either i'll get a slight gut (inch or two) and my face will get oily. Also, though the research was done at a small rural hospital and not published in peer reviewed journals, http://www.kdmc.org/obesity_research_1.html this research re-sells me every time I read it. Also tabata doesn't work for me and others I've met. What kind of HIIT protocol do you do? Sets , time, and frequency?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 20, 2013
at 01:25 PM

+ 1.. I might add though that there are many forms of HIIT that would be valuable besides just a sprint 8, although, that of course would be an effective one.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 01:15 PM

Please comment here after you sift through some of my links.

  • 3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

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8 Answers

best answer

1
2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

on April 20, 2013
at 09:51 PM

Could you give a brief summary of what you eat in a typical day?

6
Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 01:15 PM

Eugina, you would be a perfect candidate for the Sprint 8 protocol by Phil Campbell. You don't need to buy anything for this, and you can do it in a pool, on an elliptical, bike, plyometrics or running(though I don't recommend running). If you have some time to watch this then I encourage you to watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geVJqKCFk-c&feature=youtube_gdata_player , read this http://www.kdmc.org/obesity_research_1.html and watch the 1:02:40-1:20:00 section of this biochem explanation by MD Doug McGuff here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PdJFbjWHEU&feature=youtube_gdata_player . If you have any more questions about the protocol I could talk to you all day about it in the comments below. Seriously though, you are the perfect candidate for something like this.

The reason you only lose weight when you go to severe calorie restriction is quite possibly because that's where you start losing muscle mass =. I think severe calorie restriction is one of the worse things people can do to their body. You want to be healthy and vibrant and strong , you don't want to create a state of internal starvation where your body breaks down muscles and organs because it CAN'T mobilize fat cells!!!

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 01:15 PM

Please comment here after you sift through some of my links.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 01:34 PM

That's true. I recommend Sprint 8 because it works Really well for **me** at controlling my waist and my acne. If I go a month without doing either i'll get a slight gut (inch or two) and my face will get oily. Also, though the research was done at a small rural hospital and not published in peer reviewed journals, http://www.kdmc.org/obesity_research_1.html this research re-sells me every time I read it. Also tabata doesn't work for me and others I've met. What kind of HIIT protocol do you do? Sets , time, and frequency?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 02:46 PM

Excellent to hear. One caveat on running is to be careful if you're out of shape. Running on a track in bad shoes for a week or so gave me shin splints so I switched to an elliptical with good results. Now I'm doing high knee plyometric sets on couch couchins. Sounds wired I know but I don't have gym access right now and I love being able to lay down between sets to recover. Laying down between Truly intense HIIT sets is like laying down down in bed at 3am after a night of drinking, it's THE best feeling.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 03:25 PM

I have my vibrams with me ;)

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 02:09 PM

Basically, I agree. As long as an individual is getting their high intensity in, be it swimming, rowing, ellipticaling, bicycling, sprinting, jumping, plyometricing, from asylum or insanity, as long as they are getting bursts of high intensity anaerobic exercise in a safe environment where they aren't at risk of injury, there really are a limitless number of ways to do HIIT. I like Sprint 8 because most people Ive met feel like they can do 30 seconds of anything, and 1:30 is usually enough rest time for them to do it again (unlike 10 seconds in tabata). I've recently been doing high knee

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 20, 2013
at 01:57 PM

...and sometimes i just go for a run and find a nice steep grassy hill at the beginning of it and do maybe a dozen sets on that, then finish a regular run (like 2.5-4 miles, typically). variety is the spice of life brother. And I, like you, lean towards the ecto side of meso, and have also found HIIT an invaluable asset in lean body mass acquisition.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 03:43 PM

Okay, be careful though, if you don't already sprint periodically, going from untrained to sprinting may cause a injury. It might be even better to start off either by swimming or waiting till you get home and can use a lower impact HIIT technique like an elliptical or maybe a stationary bicycle.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 02:21 PM

I swear that 70% of the question on PH could be answered with, do some HIIT.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 01:37 PM

If I'm doing Sprint 8 though, I can eat at golden corral and Wendy's like every day and not break out and lose weight in my waist. I tend towards ectomorph though so I don't know if that effects it. I just know that I see my best lean gains when overfeeding along with Sprint 8.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 20, 2013
at 01:48 PM

Well, I do all types of HIIT. I do a lot of plyometric workouts that last around 30 minutes. Sometimes I throw on the Shaun T plyometric workouts in "insanity" or "the asylum," or I create them myself. if I am at the gym, I like to HIIT on the treadmill with 40 second to 1 minutes of full sprinting followed by 40-60 seconds of jogging/ easy running (not walking briskly) for 20 mins. When I'm outside I like to go to the beach and do a dozen sprint repeats (maybe 50 yards..sprint 50, walk back, sprint again). If fat loss is my goal, I like to follow the HIIT up with LISS for 20-60 minutes.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 02:10 PM

Running in place, but I can do this at my place, and I between sets I'm literally on the floor. So far I'm finding those really fun.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 20, 2013
at 01:25 PM

+ 1.. I might add though that there are many forms of HIIT that would be valuable besides just a sprint 8, although, that of course would be an effective one.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 02:22 PM

Thank you, will definitely try it starting tomorrow, with running, since I'm on vacations ATM, with no access to fitness tools.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 20, 2013
at 01:47 PM

Well, I do all types of HIIT. I do a lot of plyometric workouts that last around 30 minutes. Sometimes I throw on the Shaun T plyometric workouts in "insanity" or "the asylum," or I create them myself. if I am at the gym, I like to HIIT on the treadmill with 40 second to 1 minutes of full sprinting followed by 40-60 seconds of jogging/ easy running (not walking briskly). When I'm outside I like to go to the beach and do a dozen sprint repeats (maybe 50 yards..sprint 50, walk back, sprint again). If fat loss is my goal, I like to follow the HIIT up with LISS for 20-60 minutes.

4
A08b210e4da7e69cd792bddc1f4aae4b

(1031)

on April 21, 2013
at 05:26 AM

It strikes me that a focus on losing weight is addressing the symptoms not the root cause. I'm thinking that as you are suffering from malabsorption your body is not getting the nutrients it needs to heal itself, which in turn means it can't fix the cause of the malabsorption so you are stuck in a vicious cycle. Perhaps figuring out other ways of getting the nutrients into your body is a way to break the cycle? Have you tried or considered injections of, for example, essential vitamins?

ADDENDUM
Just came across this article, thought it might shed some light on the possible root causes:

Paleo poo and what it might mean for you

So when we hear about those studies that talk about how second and third generation immigrants in a new land suffer from diseases unknown to their parents and grandparents ??? and fast food and diet in general are blamed ??? we might also want to ask if their gut microbiome is missing some important ???old friends.??? Has their birth in a new land ??? presumably one that is less wormy and less likely to promote the transfer of ancestral microbes between family members ??? shifted their gut microbiome just enough to invite some truly human-made diseases.

4
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on April 20, 2013
at 02:50 PM

Eugenia~

From what I understand, excess fat cells can mess up your hunger signals even if you lose the fat they contain. Along with a malabsorption problem, it makes sense to me that you are in a challenging place.

You might want to check out Alternate Day Fasting. It's not a complete fast; you calorie-restrict every other day and eat to satiety on the alternate days. Several women over on the Marks Daily Apple forum are having success with this. Here's the link to the thread and the info on the protocol they are (loosely) following.

Weight training twice a week for 10-20 min will help you build some muscle mass to keep your metabolism up. Also, gentle walking for 30-60 min will really help. This book has been really helpful to my clients if you can get it: http://www.amazon.com/Strong-Women-Stay-Miriam-Nelson/dp/0553379453

Personally, I would save Stephen's great sprint suggestion for when you have lost most of the excess weight & are feeling better. I have seen too many clients injure themselves by running before they are ready.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 03:28 PM

Thank you Dragonfly, I will try fasting on the days that I don't HIIT.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on April 20, 2013
at 03:39 PM

Yeah, it's just the running I recommend against, Stephen. HIIT on ellipticals/bikes is fine, but that isn't what Eugenia said she was going to do.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 03:13 PM

I agree and disagree with dragonfly. Running puts you at high risk for injury since you aren't already in great shape. While running is a great way to do HIIT/sprint 8 and to stay in shape, you might want to work up to it. Personally I recommend doing a HIIT program on an elliptical or a stationary bike in the beginning because there is much less chance of injury that way. Starting off by running can be dangerous. I'm relatively athletic but got shin splints from sprinting in bad shoes for a week or two. Dr Mercola pulled a hamstring sprinting. Ease into it on low impact machines to be safe.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 03:41 PM

Yea, then we're on the same page dragonfly, I agree with you. Going from untrained and obese to sprinting is an injury waiting to happen, especially at the intensity I recommend.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 03:23 PM

TF, Dragonfly's reccomendation against running right off thr bat is very, very sound. Where I may disagree with her, though I'm not sure of her stance exactly is that HIIT on low impact stationary bikes and ellipticals are perfectly safe and encourageable for most anybody (assuming you don't have a special medical condition/your doctor says its fine). You definitely Do Not want to risk injury, if you can't do it on an elliptical or a bike or another low impact technique like swimming, then you either want to be very careful or possibly not do it at all.

3
F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 20, 2013
at 07:28 PM

Eugenia, I have an answer to your question - it is different from everybody else's, I have checked.

I believe that you have the same problem as I do and ALL your problems, including weight problem stem from it - a messed up gut. That's what made you celiac, that's what keeps you tired, etc. etc.

The answer is NOT to restrict your caloric intake. The answer is to change your gut flora, and that is easily said than done. Goat kefir is wonderful, but it might be so messed up that goat kefir is just a band-aide and it cannot help to heal the wound.

Again, I am not a doctor, but this is where I would start:

  1. A comprehensible stool analysis to see what exactly is wrong.

  2. A very good doctor who is experienced in recovering gut flora/ an immunologist. A fecal transplant could be an answer here too.

  3. Multiple measures, a variety of approaches and combination therapy that would help you to recover your gut flora, including conventional medical treatment, boosting your immune system, etc.

  4. There is only one diet that REALLY helps me, but it is so restrictive - I cannot keep up for longer than 3 months. Fish, meat and low FODmap vegetables. That's it. Nothing else.

I am myself struggling with trying to get my gut flora in order. If I figure out what to do and how to do it, I will let you know.

Good luck! And thank you for your thoughtful and sweet answers.

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on April 20, 2013
at 10:00 PM

I've actually had this dream where I discover an elixir that when I drink it, coats my gut and magically heals it. Possible sign that I'm on PH and obsessing about this too much? lol

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:50 PM

I hear you... I would do ANYTHING to get my gut back to normal. Tired of eating same old stuff every day.

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:41 PM

Yeah, I've done this with the meat, fish, low FODMAP veggies too. It does work. About 2 weeks in I totally lose my appetite to eat anything. Chewing meat makes me gag. I feel like I would sell my foot for a piece of fruit! I can usually hang in for a month, then I freak one day and eat blueberries and am so happy. :) Need to give that one a run again...

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on April 21, 2013
at 05:08 AM

Wow... If you ever get a hold of this elixir in real life or find a good gut doctor - please share with us.

3
32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on April 20, 2013
at 04:22 PM

Eugenia, I also love reading your answers, and all the wonderful insight you have on traditional foods in Greece. I'm kind of in the same place as you, to a degree. I am finally not at an "obese" bmi, but still at an "overweight" one. I walk/cycle/rollerblade at a slow pace 3-4 hours a week. I do crossfit 2 hours a week (which I love, and have definitely converted some fat to muscle. It may not be the perfect exercise, but I enjoy it enough to go every week, so I'm sticking with it for now).

However, I am still "fat." And no, I don't have an eating disorder. :) I have massive amounts of cellulite on my thighs that won't budge. I have so much fat on my upper arms that I can't even pinch it, lol. I have a roll on my stomach that may never go away (okay, that's probably from birthing 4 children, and I can live with that one).

My weight hasn't budged in 3 years, in spite of trying everything under the sun, including being 100% paleo for over half of that time, and 90% the rest of the time. At the very beginning of my paleo journey I ate 3000 cal a day, and lost a bunch of weight. When I plateaued I started dropping the cals, now down to 1500-1700 a day, but no change. If I go under that I'm starving and more likely to make bad food choices. I've tried every macro from keto to high carb. No difference.

So in answer to your question, yes, I think our bodies can be permanently damaged. Well, in my mind I have decided to call it the "20 year healing plan." Which is basically my way of saying I plan to eat this way for life, and hope that REALLY long term I may start to see some healing and changes. I grew up with processed food literally EVERY meal of every day. I don't think it's exaggerating to say that might cause permanent damage. I was also born with some digestive issues that required surgery, so I think I have some genetic baggage, maybe coupled with surgery scars, etc.

Of course I'm stubborn so I always have something on the list to try next. Up next are (1) IF, which I've been doing, and actually dropped half a pound last week; but I'm not holding my breath on that one. (2) alternate day fasting, as per dragonfly. (3) once a week fasting. (4) starting to toy with supplements more, starting with the list from the Perfect Health Diet. I did have some success with my appetite being controlled when I started magnesium (it also lifted my mood), so I'm hoping to find at least some small successes. Of course the malabsorption is a factor here, but I'm hoping I can figure out some ways to help that, maybe by combining with certain foods. (Need to do more research on this idea.) I have been taking more enzymes lately, and one thing I figured out was to take them in the middle of my meal (not at the beginning or end), and that has made a big difference.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:21 PM

Thank you for the comment RK! Will continue the fight too! :)

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 04:25 PM

You'd also benefit from incorporating some form of HIIT, like sprint 8 RK.

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on April 20, 2013
at 04:31 PM

Thx, Stephen, I'm planning on looking into it. My neighborhood pool is almost warm enough to hop into, so I think that will be a good thing to add in the next month or so. Thanks for all the good info.

0
048dd52752c45129c1212bfffb37ca72

on April 20, 2013
at 08:28 PM

I'd suggest you to get Jack Kruse's book the Epi-Paleo RX. Ok, I know many people here don't like him and that they could jump to my throat for saying this, and I can more or less understand why they might not like him but frankly if you read the book, IMHO there's a lot of invaluable info about how the body works. You can read the blog posts also but they are dense, the book is pretty well explained and all put up quite nicely. My current position for now is that it is a must.

I say this because for what you describe it seems you could discover new ways to look at your issues. He discuses why many people cannot make use of their own fat reserves, how to heal the gut (this seems top priority for you), he makes detailed explanation on why chronic inflammation is so bad (and I think you can suffer from this because not using body fat properly + feeling always tired + high triglyceride levels... all points in that direction).

You said you didn't want to hear about leptin resistance but if what he thinks is true... it may be the key. He also explains what blood work is important to understand what is going on and how you can interpret it... and much more, for me this is amazing.

Frankly, I think it pays off to get a copy and read it at least once.

048dd52752c45129c1212bfffb37ca72

(3150)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:56 PM

Yes, the book is more straightforward, It's all the same concept but it's explained in a more understandable way, in my opinion. Well, I've read 60% by now (got it a few days ago) but I expect the rest to be in the same line.

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:46 PM

Is his book easier to read than his website?

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:49 PM

I read Kruse, thx. I give priority to oysters, take q10.

-1
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 20, 2013
at 04:31 PM

Two keywords you said: "I'm sedentary" Fix that. In my experience, my body condition primarily follows my activity level. HIIT is fine, as Stephen points out, but probably unnecessary. Simply increasing aggregate activity will help.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 06:32 PM

Matt, I'm beginning to think You're the unique metabolic snowflake, being one of few whom I know that respond favorably to exclusively Slow State Cardio. When I go to the gym the regular slow state cardioers are maybe 90% of what I'd call metabolically fucked (either too fat or too skinny). Unless you'd care to point to a study showing jogging favorably effects body composition I'd appreciate it if you not call people with different experiences than your own bullshitters.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 21, 2013
at 07:15 AM

I'm sedentary NOW. The cardio was MORE than a year ago.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 04:37 PM

HIIT is probably unnecessary for very otherwise active and fit individuals. For those who are basically broken though, HIIT becomes increasingly necessary.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 04:44 PM

Matt, while on my paleo-keto phase, I actually ran for 20_30 mins a day, last year. It didn't help. I will try HIIT now as suggested just because it seems to offer different results, but otherwise, exercise didn't do it for me.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 06:35 PM

Btw Eugina I think you're a unique beautiful snowflake :)).

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10979)

on April 20, 2013
at 07:37 PM

Btw Euginia I think you're a unique beautiful snowflake :)).

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:47 PM

These are not new details. I mentioned malabsorption and undetected celiac for 10 years .

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:42 PM

See, more details come out... If you've really screwed up your GI, your B12 levels might be hard to normalize, at least that's the word on the street. Though I still throw my vote to aggregate activity being low.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 20, 2013
at 05:05 PM

Yeah, I don't believe your claim of being some unique metabolic snowflake. It's bullshit, sorry.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:18 PM

I mean, consider that I'd eat meat daily, liver/oysters multiple times a week, and I'd still have B12 deficiency. I almost told my doctor to not test for it, thinking that I was eating lots of it. Nope, my body was just not working right. I couldn't believe the blood test result.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 20, 2013
at 09:45 PM

And you're sedentary, but did boring cardio regularly? Yeah, not getting a full story... whatever. Downvotes for suggesting to increase total activity levels? Genius, PH'ers!

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on April 20, 2013
at 08:13 PM

Matt, I exercised for 2 months Feb-Mar 2012 (treadmill running), during paleo-keto, but I only started losing weight when I calorie-restricted. That's how it really went down. And given the personal pain I have gone through all these years with many health issues, and then doing my best to fix them after discovering Paleo, calling my reply bullshit, is unfair. Besides, I am not alone in this, I've seen others on reddit/r/Paleo and here having similar problems. We're not all... metabolically deranged the same way.

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