1

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40% carbs 40% fat and 20% protein?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 08, 2012 at 6:11 AM

How does this macronutirent ratio sound? It's moderate carb, moderate fat and lower/adequate protein.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 09, 2012
at 07:14 AM

@Alec - no they are activated to you filling up your liver and muscle glycogen stores, which can only store about 600g of glycogen (and are rarely completely depleted). De novo lipogenesis isn't necessarily deleterious, but if you're going to convert carbs to fat, then you might as well just eat fat in the first place, and not have to deal with the glucose and insulin spikes you get while processing the carbs. Capiche?

9c4ba98a3b480408bcf207f558fe659b

(355)

on October 09, 2012
at 05:58 AM

In a healthy person are these 'secondary disposal pathways' activated when eating high carb but to caloric balance? If they are, how damaging can they be when we see perfectly healthy populations eat this way (and who exercise only occasionally)?

9c4ba98a3b480408bcf207f558fe659b

(355)

on October 09, 2012
at 05:51 AM

Exercise or no exercise I doubt carb volume matters providing you are in caloric balance. I am fueled almost entirely by white rice, am mainly sedentary and am rake thin (with perfect blood glucose control).

Adb249ff0b1447d86ed308d0265e2b86

(571)

on October 08, 2012
at 05:54 PM

I'm not diabetic but when I was a wheat-munching fat 220 lb, 183 lb now, I used to feel quite ill or at least 'weird' when I ate a high carb meal. I am training really hard atm and did put some thought into how high a % to take my carbs for a 3K+ diet. I just don't want to develop diabetes now or later. One bodybuilding diet I looked at was recommending 875 g of carbs a day!!! I feel my < 250 g carbs is modest for the hour long hardcore workouts but I will pay close attention to my responses. I think I need a glucose monitor.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 08, 2012
at 02:30 PM

Carbs are only anabolic for the insulin response they provoke. Protein also provokes an insulin response. Studies have shown that protein alone after a workout is as good as protein + carbs in stimulating muscle growth. I'm not saying that carbs are bad and they may provide energy that you need for you're workout, but you may not require their anabolic effect as long as you are getting enough protein.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 08, 2012
at 02:24 PM

If it works for you, then it's fine. Only you can determine how you "look, feel and perform". As a fat T2 diabetic, more than about 5% carbs is just not an option, in spite of loving 'taters in much the same manner as April. But that's me. You could do great on 20/40/40. If you are healthy, and you getting enough protein and other nutrients, I don't think the carb/fat ratios matter that much, unless you are trying to accomplish something specific.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 08, 2012
at 01:50 PM

Like Gueyenet says "when carbohydrates are poison you're better off eating fat".

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 08, 2012
at 01:48 PM

If you're T2 diabetic, then all bets are off with respect to "safe starches". I've never met a T2 that can properly cope with more than 150g of carb without meds, most can take much less than 100g. I eat <25g.

Adb249ff0b1447d86ed308d0265e2b86

(571)

on October 08, 2012
at 01:42 PM

Great answer. I'm following Dr Jaminet's diet and now consuming 3,300 kcal for my bodybuilding program and have decided on 30% keeping it under 250 g carbs a day. I'm concerned that less carbs wouldn't support my lengthy workouts and I think carbs are 'anabolic' so I need them. Regarding the prospect of diabetes what are your thoughts on certain carbs being safe in that respect?

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on October 08, 2012
at 09:55 AM

+1, awesome answer. Interesting how both Sisson and Jaminet arrived at ~150g as the max in both their models.

Medium avatar

(10663)

on October 08, 2012
at 06:15 AM

My macros end up like this some days. I love my 'taters.

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2 Answers

4
B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 08, 2012
at 08:38 AM

Depends on what the context of your diet is, if you can handle it and feel healthy than why not?

However, on a 2500kcal a day diet, 40% carb is 250g, on 3000kcal a day it's 300g. That to me seems like an awful lot of carbohydrate if you aren't doing lots of anaerobic training to burn off some of that extra glycogen.

I quite like Paul Jaminet's calculations that show that the maximum amount of carbohydrate that a regular (non-athlete) can eat, without having to rely on secondary disposal pathways (hyperglycemia, de novo lipogenesis, direct metabolism of glucose) is about 160g. Beyond that point the best that can happen is that you convert the excess glucose to fat, in which case you'd be better off eating the extra calories as fat instead of carbohydrate in the first place.

It's worth noting that 40% caborhydrate by calories is over 50% by weight. I personally don't think that those levels are very "paleo", but it depends on what sort of carbs you are eating.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on October 08, 2012
at 09:55 AM

+1, awesome answer. Interesting how both Sisson and Jaminet arrived at ~150g as the max in both their models.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 08, 2012
at 01:48 PM

If you're T2 diabetic, then all bets are off with respect to "safe starches". I've never met a T2 that can properly cope with more than 150g of carb without meds, most can take much less than 100g. I eat <25g.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 08, 2012
at 02:30 PM

Carbs are only anabolic for the insulin response they provoke. Protein also provokes an insulin response. Studies have shown that protein alone after a workout is as good as protein + carbs in stimulating muscle growth. I'm not saying that carbs are bad and they may provide energy that you need for you're workout, but you may not require their anabolic effect as long as you are getting enough protein.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 08, 2012
at 01:50 PM

Like Gueyenet says "when carbohydrates are poison you're better off eating fat".

9c4ba98a3b480408bcf207f558fe659b

(355)

on October 09, 2012
at 05:58 AM

In a healthy person are these 'secondary disposal pathways' activated when eating high carb but to caloric balance? If they are, how damaging can they be when we see perfectly healthy populations eat this way (and who exercise only occasionally)?

Adb249ff0b1447d86ed308d0265e2b86

(571)

on October 08, 2012
at 01:42 PM

Great answer. I'm following Dr Jaminet's diet and now consuming 3,300 kcal for my bodybuilding program and have decided on 30% keeping it under 250 g carbs a day. I'm concerned that less carbs wouldn't support my lengthy workouts and I think carbs are 'anabolic' so I need them. Regarding the prospect of diabetes what are your thoughts on certain carbs being safe in that respect?

Adb249ff0b1447d86ed308d0265e2b86

(571)

on October 08, 2012
at 05:54 PM

I'm not diabetic but when I was a wheat-munching fat 220 lb, 183 lb now, I used to feel quite ill or at least 'weird' when I ate a high carb meal. I am training really hard atm and did put some thought into how high a % to take my carbs for a 3K+ diet. I just don't want to develop diabetes now or later. One bodybuilding diet I looked at was recommending 875 g of carbs a day!!! I feel my < 250 g carbs is modest for the hour long hardcore workouts but I will pay close attention to my responses. I think I need a glucose monitor.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 09, 2012
at 07:14 AM

@Alec - no they are activated to you filling up your liver and muscle glycogen stores, which can only store about 600g of glycogen (and are rarely completely depleted). De novo lipogenesis isn't necessarily deleterious, but if you're going to convert carbs to fat, then you might as well just eat fat in the first place, and not have to deal with the glucose and insulin spikes you get while processing the carbs. Capiche?

1
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 08, 2012
at 12:48 PM

Seems reasonable. Aside from some essential fats and protein, nothing else really matters because it's just energy. 20% protein is more than enough for folks. The remaining 80% is simply energy and as long as it's a mixture of both fats and carbs, you're fine.

Aside from satiety issues, there little reason to go hog-wild on fat and restrict carbs so much.

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