5

votes

Why the sudden low-carb bashing?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created March 18, 2013 at 10:21 PM

I personally had great results low carbing,(yes, yes i know, N=1)... i lost 12kg in months without any effort, as i went low carb my family's carb intake lowered as i cook a lot of the foods, all 6 of my children & partner stopped getting ill, we went from 3-4 vomiting bugs a year & a few coughs & colds, to pretty much nothing for 2 years. That's pretty impressive by any standards. Our carb intake went back up a bit with no adverse effects apart from a couple of colds in the last year, nothing drastic. Now the whole low carb thing seems to be fading out which i haven't a problem with as i enjoy potatoes & rice regularly these days, but it seems to be getting a lot of flack of late. One example is Mark Sisson getting negative things said about his low carb methods being unhealthy/unsustainable if i remember rightly? I'd expect that off v*gans, not fellow paleo/primal folk. Like i said, i haven't a problem with high or low carb, whatever works best. It's obviously not a miracle cure all going l/c but What gives?? is it really that bad long/short term??

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on April 12, 2013
at 07:19 PM

HB- My apologies.... I missed your point.

7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

(4176)

on March 20, 2013
at 08:19 AM

That last line was sarcastic, I'm not trying to lose weight, I'm trying to restore my health and it winds me up when people equate the two

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on March 20, 2013
at 05:08 AM

Dear HB- I truly think you've totally missed the point. I've found it to work just fine short term and I see no reason for it not to work long term. There are tons of real research papers that support "fast carb" restriction. If you think Paleo / Primal is about 'weight loss', 'weight loss', 'weight loss', wrong again. It's about body recomposition, loss of body fat. "I'm trying to lose weight but it's not working". What's not working? Your "weight loss"? or Paleo? It's not about weight loss, it's about fat loss & muscle retention.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on March 20, 2013
at 04:55 AM

Deborah- As much as I would like to take credit for "slow-carb"... I think I learned it from Dr. Hyman (The Blood Sugar Solution). Feel free to use it & promote it. He and number of others (Tim Ferriss - 4 Hour Body) have recommended tailoring one's eating to minimize blood sugar rise AND thus, insulin response. I believe I have a reasonable theory for why people (me) go back to eating crap; habit and memory. I recall how much I enjoyed (whatever) and I hope to reproduce that experience. Check out "Power of Habit". Tim Ferriss encourages weekly "cheat days"...but the allure fades

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 20, 2013
at 12:20 AM

I personally count low carb as less than 50g daily, that is my personal opinion. It varies massively, compared to peoples everyday diet, I'm from the U.K & any daily intake that doesn't involve 2-3 rounds of toast or a bowl of cereal for breakfast, a sandwich for dinner & a dollop of meat, bolognese style sauce with a mahooosive bowl of pasta for tea, plus snacks inbetween is lower carb than most peoples intake.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 20, 2013
at 12:11 AM

Great words Josh M, yes we are the masters of adaption!

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 20, 2013
at 12:10 AM

Thanks August, i may have just noticed it more these days. I do enjoy the fact that i don't have to "smash the gym" to look & feel healthy.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:14 PM

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:12 PM

Glad you have had such great results UncleLongHair & thanks for your comment. I do believe that after low carbing for a bit out bodies can deal with carbs a lot better, i'm similar to yourself but minus the crossfit.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:05 PM

thank you for your thoughts guys.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:04 PM

Thanks for your input Sarah, i agree with you on sissons diet, it's the first book i read & i have a lot of time for the guy. My carb intake has gone up of late, i eat potatoes & rice a bit more, these days i have between 50g & 150g, i don't have weight issues so i just relax.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 10:59 PM

Thanks for taking the time to comment guys! some interesting views!!

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 10:58 PM

Thanks for your input people! Huntingbear, you pointed out that MathGirl's comment about your genetics was below the belt & then went & attacked her genetics! i don't think MathGirl was meaning ignore different opinions, i think she was meaning ignore negative comments. I think saying low carb is nonsense is one of those comments.Personally i had good results & i wasn't even near obese in the first place, this is why i asked the question in the first place. Take a leaf out of Desmond's book, embrace life! i'm not having a go dude..just make the best of what you have. =o)

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 10:45 PM

Thanks for your thoughts guys. I used them ketostix things a couple of years back, i'd only had heart, oil, fish, eggs & a very small amount of broccoli for 4 days running, so i did a test & i was in ketosis, i know ketostix aren't very accurate but i could safely say i was deffo below 30g daily carbs, i reckon somwewhere around 15g. after that i was never in ketosis again when testing & my daily carb intake was roughly 30-50g. so MY personal thoughts are i need to drop below 30g to enter ketosis. Not that i'm interested in going there these days, just thought i'd put my 2p's worth in.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 10:32 PM

Thanks for all your comments people, some great points here.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 10:29 PM

haha, cheers for your input Roth! thanks also HuntingBears, good logic.

Ee6932fe54ad68039a8d5f7a8caa0468

(2668)

on March 19, 2013
at 03:16 PM

AxialGentleman, that's the exact kind of stuff that bothers me about low carbers. thank you for personally illustrating - it's an intolerance of other approaches to weightloss and/or health.

86c97b2779feab3c330f5e1c5fea7e25

(2312)

on March 19, 2013
at 03:08 PM

Ha seriously HuntingBears...you are way too depressing. Don't hate others for the problems they DON'T have, and don't resent yourself for any problems you DO have. It's life...it's a wonderful thing if you can learn to embrace it

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 19, 2013
at 02:32 PM

When I did my ketosis experiment, I had to drop below 25g to get a consistent reading on my meter.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on March 19, 2013
at 02:09 PM

I don't claim to having "glittering genetics," but don't flame dietary choices as being horrible for everyone as you have been. Frankly, I don't care if you don't appreciate it as you have been an absolute boor lately with your whining about how nothing is working for you. I didn't say to ignore differing opinions, I said ignore YOU for your bad attitude. Cheers!

0f88641fb8088d0cdd1b5ef810b2d0a4

(146)

on March 19, 2013
at 01:57 PM

"The point is to move toward nourishing foods, not flee from scary ones." I totally agree. My turning point came when I realised food is nutrition, not the enemy. Food choices are not a moral issue.

9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

(15833)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:58 PM

I am not sure if the Paleo science was so meat-focused, but people started the Paleo diet as an excuse to eat pounds of meat per day, regardless of the science. Lots of Paleo folks eat tons of bacon, but that is clearly not a Paleo food, and all of the perservatives and nitrates are not good for you. A true hunter-gatherer diet doesn't provide 2 pounds of rib-eyes every day.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:11 PM

As for a focus on weight loss? Well, I'd wager that's 90+% of why folks make any modifications to their diet, I don't think paleo is exempt from that concept. Paleo for weight loss needs to be more about energy restriction as opposed to simply carb restriction. Carb restriction is but one way to achieve calorie restriction. So I don't thnk low-carb itself is what's wrong with paleo, it's simply an incomplete picture.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:08 PM

Be accurate in your language. By low-carb you mean hyperketonemia and ketosis.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:07 PM

I agree there's too much avoidance/restriction in paleo circles. Though I do not see how one eats paleo and acheives hyperketonemia, even at my strictest I never got below 50 grams of carbohydrate a day. Only when you meld Atkins and paleo do you induce misery and low-carb flus.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:04 PM

It seems to be very individual how much carbohydrate is necessary to prevent hyperketonemia which is what we really mean by ketosis I think. 50 grams seems to be an oft-quoted number that I've seen that keeps folks out of ketosis.

Ca2c940a1947e6200883908592956680

(8574)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:49 AM

Well ketogenic is actually anything below 100g of carbs per day, not necessarily 30g as some people think. Also we are always producing ketones which people forget.

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:46 AM

Good points, Travis, but you know what? I was already eating a whole foods diet with minimal gluten and sugar. To "go paleo" all I did was eliminate (1) 2 tsp of sugar from my morning coffee and (2) one serving of crackers in the afternoon. THAT'S IT. And I had a massive sugar withdrawal low-carb "flu." And lost 30 lb. Hard to believe that tiny bit of sugar and gluten was holding me back, but it was. Maybe I'm atypical - I suspect some autoimmune issues at work. I wasn't even low carb. but that transition was still rough!

Ed0cb30f40daff568778b776b2a5a81d

(943)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:02 AM

Hi Travis, thanks a lot for that comment. It helps with ocd about food to read something like that.

5dd50f78f47b8848d93724d6eb38d4c1

(907)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:02 AM

"low-fat and low-carb are both effective, but one is hard and leaves you miserable and deprived for the rest of your life, and the other makes you happy." That's funny, as I felt miserable on a low carb diet and felt better on a low fat diet. I also felt deprived on a low carb diet after a few weeks. Butter and bacon is a novelty and fun to splurge on in the beginning because you've deprived yourself of it for so long, but it get's boring real quick.

Medium avatar

(572)

on March 19, 2013
at 10:40 AM

"People who eat low fat don't live longer, it just seems longer." Aaaah! This is truth. I've been thinking about all of this for so long and do know that when I eat crap I feel crap and when I eat no sugar, no grains, slow-carb (love this, stealing this) I feel good. The thing I don't know is why I slip back to crap eating. But I will say that I KNOW it isn't because slow-carb is not sustainable. It is. But I am waiting for my answer to interrupted compliance. *sigh*

7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

(4176)

on March 19, 2013
at 10:32 AM

you got the benefits by quitting gluten and omega 6 and all that rubbish, you equated this with going low carb, notice how now adding carbs like potatoes and rice you still feel good? It's not the carbs, it's the type of carbs

7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

(4176)

on March 19, 2013
at 10:04 AM

Let me guess, you're trying to lose weight?

7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

(4176)

on March 19, 2013
at 10:02 AM

If you're referring to me I'm actually male and don't appreciate this kind of personal attack on my "shitty genetics", this really is below the belt, and most agree on here that low carb is absolute nonsense unless you are incredibly obese. Why are you saying ignore someone who has a different opinion to you? One that most actually share! Congratulations on your glittering genetics btw

C28ae8c7a12a730363835acf21e962a2

(715)

on March 19, 2013
at 03:07 AM

absolutely this. well said.

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on March 19, 2013
at 02:36 AM

i'd pick bacon fat over a sweet potato any day!

3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:56 AM

Zero carb is not a good idea. Low-carb is. Anyone who says so otherwise can go suck a starchy phallus.

370751438907115abacc67f4466b398d

(118)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:26 AM

This post was really helpful thank you!

028e70a250f38bd61fa81b0e0789bb6e

(812)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:18 AM

I actually think the opposite. On paleohacks I've seen low carb usually recommended for newcomers who have metabolic syndromes and want to lose weight. Low carb is a great solution for them but particularly difficult to adapt in the first weeks. People have decent health to begin with doesn't need to do that, but someone has to go through that particularly painful period.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:13 AM

right. low carb as compared to? Someone who eats noodles three times a day? Sure we all are. Low carb as compared to keto? Nope, not even close.

5e5ff249c9161b8cd96d7eff6043bc3a

(4713)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:13 AM

Wisper, agreed.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:04 AM

Would give more points if I could.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on March 18, 2013
at 11:27 PM

The low-carbers I know in the scientific community (n=2) have settled on the line "low-fat and low-carb are both effective, but one is hard and leaves you miserable and deprived for the rest of your life, and the other makes you happy."

  • C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

    asked by

    (925)
  • Views
    2.4K
  • Last Activity
    1262D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

12 Answers

21
Medium avatar

on March 18, 2013
at 11:31 PM

I wish paleo weren't associated with carbohydrate restriction in the least bit. Any diet that makes people feel terrible for weeks at the beginning as their body adapts to perceived starvation is going to keep thousands of people away. They try it for a few days, feel awful, say "fuck this noise" and then go back to junk food.

If instead they ate nutritious whole foods in whatever ratios they personally prefer, they'd feel better on day 1 and would actually have a chance of making a permanent health upgrade. If you think 100 calories of bacon fat is more nutritious than 100 calories of sweet potato, you have brain damage.

Now that I think about it, I wish it weren't associated with restriction at all like the rest of the fad diets are. How many times do you see "don't," "avoid," "evil," "toxic" etc. in any of these paleo books? No diet that cultivates or perpetuates an unhealthy relationship with food can at the same time be a healthy diet. The point is to move toward nourishing foods, not flee from scary ones.

5e5ff249c9161b8cd96d7eff6043bc3a

(4713)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:13 AM

Wisper, agreed.

370751438907115abacc67f4466b398d

(118)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:26 AM

This post was really helpful thank you!

089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on March 19, 2013
at 02:36 AM

i'd pick bacon fat over a sweet potato any day!

028e70a250f38bd61fa81b0e0789bb6e

(812)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:18 AM

I actually think the opposite. On paleohacks I've seen low carb usually recommended for newcomers who have metabolic syndromes and want to lose weight. Low carb is a great solution for them but particularly difficult to adapt in the first weeks. People have decent health to begin with doesn't need to do that, but someone has to go through that particularly painful period.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 10:32 PM

Thanks for all your comments people, some great points here.

Ed0cb30f40daff568778b776b2a5a81d

(943)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:02 AM

Hi Travis, thanks a lot for that comment. It helps with ocd about food to read something like that.

0f88641fb8088d0cdd1b5ef810b2d0a4

(146)

on March 19, 2013
at 01:57 PM

"The point is to move toward nourishing foods, not flee from scary ones." I totally agree. My turning point came when I realised food is nutrition, not the enemy. Food choices are not a moral issue.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:04 AM

Would give more points if I could.

32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:46 AM

Good points, Travis, but you know what? I was already eating a whole foods diet with minimal gluten and sugar. To "go paleo" all I did was eliminate (1) 2 tsp of sugar from my morning coffee and (2) one serving of crackers in the afternoon. THAT'S IT. And I had a massive sugar withdrawal low-carb "flu." And lost 30 lb. Hard to believe that tiny bit of sugar and gluten was holding me back, but it was. Maybe I'm atypical - I suspect some autoimmune issues at work. I wasn't even low carb. but that transition was still rough!

C28ae8c7a12a730363835acf21e962a2

(715)

on March 19, 2013
at 03:07 AM

absolutely this. well said.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:07 PM

I agree there's too much avoidance/restriction in paleo circles. Though I do not see how one eats paleo and acheives hyperketonemia, even at my strictest I never got below 50 grams of carbohydrate a day. Only when you meld Atkins and paleo do you induce misery and low-carb flus.

12
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:01 AM

I'd just like to see some differentiation between ketogenic low carb and paleo lower carb.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:04 PM

It seems to be very individual how much carbohydrate is necessary to prevent hyperketonemia which is what we really mean by ketosis I think. 50 grams seems to be an oft-quoted number that I've seen that keeps folks out of ketosis.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 19, 2013
at 02:32 PM

When I did my ketosis experiment, I had to drop below 25g to get a consistent reading on my meter.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:13 AM

right. low carb as compared to? Someone who eats noodles three times a day? Sure we all are. Low carb as compared to keto? Nope, not even close.

Ca2c940a1947e6200883908592956680

(8574)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:49 AM

Well ketogenic is actually anything below 100g of carbs per day, not necessarily 30g as some people think. Also we are always producing ketones which people forget.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 10:45 PM

Thanks for your thoughts guys. I used them ketostix things a couple of years back, i'd only had heart, oil, fish, eggs & a very small amount of broccoli for 4 days running, so i did a test & i was in ketosis, i know ketostix aren't very accurate but i could safely say i was deffo below 30g daily carbs, i reckon somwewhere around 15g. after that i was never in ketosis again when testing & my daily carb intake was roughly 30-50g. so MY personal thoughts are i need to drop below 30g to enter ketosis. Not that i'm interested in going there these days, just thought i'd put my 2p's worth in.

9
61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on March 18, 2013
at 11:40 PM

One of the regular posters is pissed about having shitty genetics and, since low carb didn't work for her, thinks it doesn't/shouldn't work for anyone. Ignore it. Many of us on here support low carb choices.

86c97b2779feab3c330f5e1c5fea7e25

(2312)

on March 19, 2013
at 03:08 PM

Ha seriously HuntingBears...you are way too depressing. Don't hate others for the problems they DON'T have, and don't resent yourself for any problems you DO have. It's life...it's a wonderful thing if you can learn to embrace it

7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

(4176)

on March 19, 2013
at 10:02 AM

If you're referring to me I'm actually male and don't appreciate this kind of personal attack on my "shitty genetics", this really is below the belt, and most agree on here that low carb is absolute nonsense unless you are incredibly obese. Why are you saying ignore someone who has a different opinion to you? One that most actually share! Congratulations on your glittering genetics btw

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 10:58 PM

Thanks for your input people! Huntingbear, you pointed out that MathGirl's comment about your genetics was below the belt & then went & attacked her genetics! i don't think MathGirl was meaning ignore different opinions, i think she was meaning ignore negative comments. I think saying low carb is nonsense is one of those comments.Personally i had good results & i wasn't even near obese in the first place, this is why i asked the question in the first place. Take a leaf out of Desmond's book, embrace life! i'm not having a go dude..just make the best of what you have. =o)

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on March 19, 2013
at 02:09 PM

I don't claim to having "glittering genetics," but don't flame dietary choices as being horrible for everyone as you have been. Frankly, I don't care if you don't appreciate it as you have been an absolute boor lately with your whining about how nothing is working for you. I didn't say to ignore differing opinions, I said ignore YOU for your bad attitude. Cheers!

8
Ee6932fe54ad68039a8d5f7a8caa0468

(2668)

on March 18, 2013
at 10:28 PM

i don't think it's low carb per se that's being bashed, but a lot of the bad science that's used to justify it, not to mention dire warnings to others trying to lose weight using different approaches. at least that's my beef with much of the low carb world.

i rarely see it presented as, "here's one strategy to regulate your appetite that may help you eat less, while maintining a healthy diet." tends to get a bit more militant than that.

5dd50f78f47b8848d93724d6eb38d4c1

(907)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:02 AM

"low-fat and low-carb are both effective, but one is hard and leaves you miserable and deprived for the rest of your life, and the other makes you happy." That's funny, as I felt miserable on a low carb diet and felt better on a low fat diet. I also felt deprived on a low carb diet after a few weeks. Butter and bacon is a novelty and fun to splurge on in the beginning because you've deprived yourself of it for so long, but it get's boring real quick.

Ee6932fe54ad68039a8d5f7a8caa0468

(2668)

on March 19, 2013
at 03:16 PM

AxialGentleman, that's the exact kind of stuff that bothers me about low carbers. thank you for personally illustrating - it's an intolerance of other approaches to weightloss and/or health.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 10:59 PM

Thanks for taking the time to comment guys! some interesting views!!

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on March 18, 2013
at 11:27 PM

The low-carbers I know in the scientific community (n=2) have settled on the line "low-fat and low-carb are both effective, but one is hard and leaves you miserable and deprived for the rest of your life, and the other makes you happy."

6
F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on March 19, 2013
at 06:08 AM

I avoid the use of the terms "low carb" and "high protein" as they tend to elicit Atkin bashing comments.

I prefer slow carb & increased protein as opposed to high protein.

I never had a problem with low carb / slow carb perhaps because I eased into things via The Blood Sugar Solution / 4 Hour Body which tend to focus on minimal blood sugar bumps & reduced insulin response. The no bread, pasta, wheat, grains, sugar or potatoes approach.

btw I bought myself a blood sugar meter and did all sorts of meal & individual food blood sugar response tests. I know what works & doesn't work for me.

I'd have to disagree that a low fat / high carb diet (whole grains, margarine, fake low fat foods) "works"....

it didn't keep my father in law from suffering additional heart disease issues and then cancer but it did deprive him of the joy of eating for nearly 20 years... than you Pritikin. People who eat low fat don't live longer, it just seems longer.

imo it's all about the blood sugar & insulin response... whatever works to minimize them. Paleo is one effective / fun way to achieve it.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:05 PM

thank you for your thoughts guys.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on March 20, 2013
at 04:55 AM

Deborah- As much as I would like to take credit for "slow-carb"... I think I learned it from Dr. Hyman (The Blood Sugar Solution). Feel free to use it & promote it. He and number of others (Tim Ferriss - 4 Hour Body) have recommended tailoring one's eating to minimize blood sugar rise AND thus, insulin response. I believe I have a reasonable theory for why people (me) go back to eating crap; habit and memory. I recall how much I enjoyed (whatever) and I hope to reproduce that experience. Check out "Power of Habit". Tim Ferriss encourages weekly "cheat days"...but the allure fades

Medium avatar

(572)

on March 19, 2013
at 10:40 AM

"People who eat low fat don't live longer, it just seems longer." Aaaah! This is truth. I've been thinking about all of this for so long and do know that when I eat crap I feel crap and when I eat no sugar, no grains, slow-carb (love this, stealing this) I feel good. The thing I don't know is why I slip back to crap eating. But I will say that I KNOW it isn't because slow-carb is not sustainable. It is. But I am waiting for my answer to interrupted compliance. *sigh*

6
81feb1022a28f534867616b9316c7aa4

on March 19, 2013
at 05:46 AM

I think ketogenic or very low carb is probably not sustainable for life. But I eat less than 100g of carbs most days, heck, probably less than 80g and it dosen't feel like an effort at all or unsustainable. I feel a bit sorry for Mark Sisson getting so much flack, because I feel like the diet he advocates is pretty good- 100-150g of carbs per day for weight maintainance... the occasional treat, he has guidelines (especially for those who want to lose weight) but I have always seen him as an advocate for doing what works for YOU.

I mean personally I would struggle to eat more than 150g of carbs per day (unless it was a special occasion and i was treating myself).

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:04 PM

Thanks for your input Sarah, i agree with you on sissons diet, it's the first book i read & i have a lot of time for the guy. My carb intake has gone up of late, i eat potatoes & rice a bit more, these days i have between 50g & 150g, i don't have weight issues so i just relax.

5
9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

on March 19, 2013
at 12:23 PM

Paleo and low carb are two different things, and certain theories of the Paleo diet (such as Mark Sisson's) combine them, but I think different diets work for different people. I personally think that the Paleo diet can work for everyone, but that different people need different levels of carbs. But also that very, very few people can do ok on a really high carb diet.

Some people do terrible on high or even moderate carb diets (I'm one of them), I have found over many years of experimenting with diets that even moderate carbs are bad for me. I have energy peaks and valleys, digestive problems, mood and sleep problems, chronic weight gain, etc. I think that a lot of people who are obese or have serious health problems really have an underlying metabolism problem caused by a high carb diet (which is the "food pyramid" diet hence most people's default diet), and you hear lots of stories of people losing huge amounts of weight or dropping a long list of meds by simply switching to a relatively low carb Paleo diet.

On the other hand, some people have a big problem with low carb diets. Maybe these people have a fundamentally different metabolism, or never got into the "high carb broken metabolism", or exercise a lot and just need the carbs to replenish their energy stores. When these people go on a low carb diet they seem to have problems with mood, energy, sleep, digestion... all of the problems that I have on a high carb diet.

So then in the online forums you hear from people that think their diet is the only diet and start to go all Lord of the Flies on the "other team" but it seems obvious that different people need different levels of carbs, and that the carbs they need can change as their body does.

When I first went Paleo I went super low carb (<= 25g carbs per day), which at first was fantastic. I lost about 10 pounds and a lot of energy, mood, digestive, and skin problems completely disappeared in a few weeks. However after a couple of months I really had trouble sticking to the diet and was constantly craving high carb snacks. I increased my carbs slightly (up to maybe 50-75g per day, which still isn't a lot) and that worked ok for a while. Around this time I started to do crossfit, which is pretty intense exercise for me.

After a few months of that, I lost more weight and girth, but REALLY started to crave carbs, like all the time. I really struggled with this because I had learned over many years that eating a lot of carbs was bad for me, but the cravings were ridiculous. So I started to eat high carb foods after workouts, Paleo-friendly carbs like sweet potatoes, plantains, bananas, avocados, etc. This has been awesome, I feel great, and somewhat to my surprise I continued to get leaner even with the additional carbs. I continue to eat more carbs, am still cautious with it and don't eat carbs at breakfast, but eat them much more freely at other meals, and even try an intentionally high-carb meal once every week or two.

So something has fundamentally changed with my metabolism, if I ate a sweet potato every day a year ago I would have started packing on the pounds, but somehow that isn't a problem for me any more. There are a lot of theories about insulin response and leptin reset that can help explain this, I am not sure I totally buy into the theories but the conclusions do seem to apply to me.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:12 PM

Glad you have had such great results UncleLongHair & thanks for your comment. I do believe that after low carbing for a bit out bodies can deal with carbs a lot better, i'm similar to yourself but minus the crossfit.

3
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on March 19, 2013
at 03:39 PM

Sudden? Chris, there has been low carb bashing even before there was paleo. Don't sweat it. It isn't bad long or short term. Now, if you are going to have a problem, it will be transitioning from losing weight to maintenance.
We go from getting a lot of calories from our fat stores to needing those calories to come from our diet, and on a low carb diet appetite doesn't always kick in to tell us that. So, many of us get tired, low energy, etc... You have to eat more when this happens, and fat actually works despite the internet telling you that you are hypothyroid and that you need to eat more carbs.

The second thing some of us run into are the demands for glycogen with regard to exercise. Luckily for you, exercise is not necessarily 'healthy.' If people are running into the gym to do demanding work they are doing it for athletic or aesthetic goals that you don't need to apply to yourself. You can get a decent workout without going that far.

But you will see the bashing coming from people who have either experienced the above and/or are just plain too young to understand.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 20, 2013
at 12:10 AM

Thanks August, i may have just noticed it more these days. I do enjoy the fact that i don't have to "smash the gym" to look & feel healthy.

3
66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on March 19, 2013
at 02:36 PM

Just my own N=1 experience, although I say I am LC-VLC and have been for many years, it is not a 'diet' I chose to follow, Where I am now is based on years of self experimentation and just naturally evolved into how I eat. I am approaching the big '50' but I work circles around guys 1/2 my age in a physically demanding job. I am constantly mistaken for being way younger than I actually am and get flirted with a lot by younger women (my wife kind of likes that lol). So for me, for now this is where I am at, but it may change in a few years and if my body tells me it needs more carbs then I will listen. I am not locked into some ritualistic dogma, I am a human being doing what we do best - we adapt constantly. We all walk the same path, just some of us take the long, scenic route, some of us take the uphill, rock strewn route and scrape our knees and elbows as we go along, while still others have to cross oceans and scale mountain ranges.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 20, 2013
at 12:11 AM

Great words Josh M, yes we are the masters of adaption!

2
32652cb696b75182cb121009ee4edea3

(5802)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:03 PM

I think we are just seeing the growing pains of paleo. Much of the early paleo science was "meat meat meat!" Maybe it was overemphasized, for the purpose of refuting so many years of "meat is bad." But most people find that long-term, you have to have some variety. Health issues aside, meat just gets boring! Even with fat.

I'd love to see more research (or a book?) done on paleo troubleshooting: different body types, how to experiment to find what works for you, what can go wrong, all the different ways to do paleo, etc. And not just "take this supplement."

9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

(15833)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:58 PM

I am not sure if the Paleo science was so meat-focused, but people started the Paleo diet as an excuse to eat pounds of meat per day, regardless of the science. Lots of Paleo folks eat tons of bacon, but that is clearly not a Paleo food, and all of the perservatives and nitrates are not good for you. A true hunter-gatherer diet doesn't provide 2 pounds of rib-eyes every day.

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 19, 2013
at 11:14 PM

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

0
43873f3cea4f22f91653b0f5ec7ab9d9

(401)

on March 19, 2013
at 05:00 PM

I don't even know what amounts people are referring to when they say LC or VLC. What category does 75-100g per day of carbs fall into? How many carbs a day is no longer "LC"?

C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

(925)

on March 20, 2013
at 12:20 AM

I personally count low carb as less than 50g daily, that is my personal opinion. It varies massively, compared to peoples everyday diet, I'm from the U.K & any daily intake that doesn't involve 2-3 rounds of toast or a bowl of cereal for breakfast, a sandwich for dinner & a dollop of meat, bolognese style sauce with a mahooosive bowl of pasta for tea, plus snacks inbetween is lower carb than most peoples intake.

-1
7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

on March 19, 2013
at 10:07 AM

Low carb is everything that's wrong with paleo, it's not good long term (or short for people with anxiety and depression especially) and aimed at weight loss (as is basically every single aspect of this diet it seems, weight loss weight loss weight loss!!

I'm trying to lose weight but it's not working, what am I doing wrong????

7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

(4176)

on March 20, 2013
at 08:19 AM

That last line was sarcastic, I'm not trying to lose weight, I'm trying to restore my health and it winds me up when people equate the two

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:08 PM

Be accurate in your language. By low-carb you mean hyperketonemia and ketosis.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on March 19, 2013
at 12:11 PM

As for a focus on weight loss? Well, I'd wager that's 90+% of why folks make any modifications to their diet, I don't think paleo is exempt from that concept. Paleo for weight loss needs to be more about energy restriction as opposed to simply carb restriction. Carb restriction is but one way to achieve calorie restriction. So I don't thnk low-carb itself is what's wrong with paleo, it's simply an incomplete picture.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on March 20, 2013
at 05:08 AM

Dear HB- I truly think you've totally missed the point. I've found it to work just fine short term and I see no reason for it not to work long term. There are tons of real research papers that support "fast carb" restriction. If you think Paleo / Primal is about 'weight loss', 'weight loss', 'weight loss', wrong again. It's about body recomposition, loss of body fat. "I'm trying to lose weight but it's not working". What's not working? Your "weight loss"? or Paleo? It's not about weight loss, it's about fat loss & muscle retention.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on April 12, 2013
at 07:19 PM

HB- My apologies.... I missed your point.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!