2

votes

Weightlifting + High Fat + Protein but Low Carb

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 10, 2012 at 8:23 PM

I'm 16 and weight lift 3x a week. So far I'm making gains every week so I can't really decide whether or not going low carb will affect them. My reason to go low-carb is because I think I have SIBO and would like to just cut back since it reduces my symptoms.

Does anyone have any research/studies that show that carbs aren't that necessary in order to continue progressing in weightlifting? I will probably be getting around 50g a day from veggies with the rest of my diet being loads of meat and fat at a caloric surplus.

Quick question: Is Lard an ok source of fat for someone who struggles with acne? It seems like a cheap source of calories at 100g for 900 but I'm not sure if it'll affect me negatively if I add it into my diet.

F2c347d7525967f66644a12266639b96

on August 12, 2012
at 11:22 AM

What bro-science are you talking about? I'm giving my own personal experience and then referencing places to look for other ideas. Not one workout regime works for everybody. I even mention in the 2nd to last paragraph that you should experiment to see what works for you. Maybe you should read the whole answer instead of offering your own bro-science and acting like a troll.

B1d3dfe470ba901b2b107545b923b024

(184)

on August 12, 2012
at 12:21 AM

different work out every week ....yeahhhh nah & if you want the best strength gains reverse pyramid is the best way to go (start heavy low reps and move to higher reps lower weight through the set) the bro-science is strong in this comment

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 11, 2012
at 02:51 PM

I up voted because you make a great point about the amount of food necessary to achieve lean mass gains. I should have stated earlier that as you increase calories, the % of carbs goes down in relation to fat. 20% carbs is roughly over a 1000 calories (at the quantity you consume) and many on this board would balk at that. I'm not one of those.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 11, 2012
at 02:45 PM

I didn't say eat crap. In fact I said not to eat garbage. The advice I would give to a teenager is different from the advice I'd give to an older person. The OP will have to decide what his priorities are (to achieve maximal strength gains or not). To be blunt, I put my faith in men who have made careers out of training people for strength (Olympic lifters and Power lifters). Congrats on the 3.5XDL. That took YEARS to achieve. I am a little over 2X on both and hope to have a 2.5X DL by years end.

510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on August 11, 2012
at 02:19 PM

I'm voting down because I have a 2.5x BW squat and 3.5x DL and I don't eat any crap. I agree with most of what Rip says, but I will never advocate eating crap. You can get big and strong on a clean diet. It may be slower but you can do it (maybe not as big as the GOMAD folks, but that's because of the growth hormones in milk). I prefer the Welbourne approach which is much more closely aligned with paleo.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 11, 2012
at 01:36 PM

Recognize that their is a difference between what is the most effective way to so do something versus saying something will not work. I think the key is creating a calorie surplus with enough protein and a mix of carbs/fats. Carbs being on the low end of that mix (see above where Volek says less than 35% low carb). I gave you advice to EAT because you are 16, can put on lean mass like nobodies business, and this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Most novice lifters stall because they do not eat enough. Once you stall, gains become MUCH harder. This is for strength, not abs.

34997c76c8ce232f28942f233e180f18

(608)

on August 11, 2012
at 08:16 AM

I'm doing SS at the moment, 3k calories everyday, I can't do GOMAD or eat unclean unless I want to breakout in acne. LC is a must for me since I have to deal with SIBO(or whatever I may have), too much vegetables and I'll be passing gas all day, even one fruit will do that to me. Since I have to eat clean, it would be cost prohibitive to eat 4-5k calories. I've gained weight and moved up in my lifts for 2 months now and I hope it stays that way, at least until I can deal with eating more carbs.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 11, 2012
at 02:57 AM

Actually they are quite clear that recovery: adequate rest and nutrition are the most important part of strength training. Less is more is a strength training philosophy. Rippitoe in particular cares nothing for being 'lean'. Showing abs has nothing to do with health or being strong. He devotes a chapter to it in his book Starting Strength. I wouldn't not be so quick to say they don't care about nutrition and recovery when they recommend a program that is 3 workouts a week totaling 3 hours a week with resting and recovery being the other portion of the program.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 11, 2012
at 02:41 AM

Oh, and don't listen to nutrition advice from most those guys. They delude themselves into thinking exercise cures all.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 11, 2012
at 02:38 AM

I got all that plus and still eat LC and don't follow any of the standard advice by ripptoe and the like.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 11, 2012
at 12:34 AM

Consider that Dr. Volek states in an interview, "My suggestion is that any diet nominally less than that, say < 35-40%, be considered a "low-carbohydrate diet," speaking in reference to a % of total calories for a low-carb diet. This is much higher than what most people consider low-carb. http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1670854

A9007c998e3b924deebbe9ebb98d4db6

(340)

on August 11, 2012
at 12:30 AM

Thanks for the input. This fits well with the view of one of the established Paleo gurus (I forget who), who suggested Paleo is most useful for folks after reaching the age of about 40. A theory subject to validation and personal variances, of course, but at least there seems to be some evidence to support this line of view.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 10, 2012
at 11:47 PM

Remember that teenagers are growing! So even a sedentary teenager needs excess calories to fuel growth. An active teenager will need even more calories (hence the 4000-5000 calorie recommendation).

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 10, 2012
at 11:43 PM

Something is seriously wrong if a teenager is having issues with inflammation and recovery. I could play 7 soccer games in a weekend, living off of McDonald's and IHOP (we had to travel for tournaments) and never had an issue with recovery or inflammation at that age. Now, at 31, I have those issues! lol. I know that is anecdotal but I cannot remember any friend that played sports that had issues with recovery or inflammation.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 10, 2012
at 11:40 PM

Aging is simply the decline in the ability to recover. Teenagers are at their peak abilities to recover. Inflammation and recovery is not a concern at that age. The majority of the Paleohacks crowd is older and far more sensitive to these issues. The concerns of one age group is not the same for all age groups. I'm not saying eat twinkies and other garbage. GOMAD is whole milk which may be the the most nutritious substance on the planet (combination of protein, good fats, carbs, vitamins, and minerals) for people who want to grow.

A9007c998e3b924deebbe9ebb98d4db6

(340)

on August 10, 2012
at 11:23 PM

Isn't the risk with this less-quality-focused approach likely to be higher inflammation and longer recovery time? I am not an active lifter/builder, but I would be interested in comments on this as I coach my son through his teen years.

34997c76c8ce232f28942f233e180f18

(608)

on August 10, 2012
at 09:28 PM

Awesome, thanks.

27bac964edd249667d0fb749daeeb090

(263)

on August 10, 2012
at 08:55 PM

I had been very low carb, ketogenic for a few months. I found that I was getting stronger while weightlifting, but not gaining much mass. I've recently started adding some carbs (sweet potatoes, and fruit) post workout and found that I am gaining lean mass pretty quickly.

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6 Answers

4
F0a3e3f17d9a740810ac37ff2353a9f3

(3804)

on August 10, 2012
at 09:21 PM

Jeff Volek was a state champion powerlifter on a low-carb diet, and he's done a lot of research in that area. Do an author search on PubMed.

Also, "The Art and Science of Low-Carb Performance" by Volek and Steve Phinney is well woth $6 (Kindle version) at Amazon.

34997c76c8ce232f28942f233e180f18

(608)

on August 10, 2012
at 09:28 PM

Awesome, thanks.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 11, 2012
at 12:34 AM

Consider that Dr. Volek states in an interview, "My suggestion is that any diet nominally less than that, say < 35-40%, be considered a "low-carbohydrate diet," speaking in reference to a % of total calories for a low-carb diet. This is much higher than what most people consider low-carb. http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1670854

2
510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on August 11, 2012
at 02:27 PM

If you're doing heavy, low rep strength work then I see less of a need for carbs versus doing crossfit-style metcons, or even CF football heavy metcons. Basically you'll want enough carbs to refill your muscle glycogen after a workout. Metcons burn through glycogen much faster than heavy, low rep lifting. This really is going to have to come down to what your goals are. If you have SIBO and health is the most imporant thing for you, then you may want to run lower carb than if getting jacked is your goal.

I am pretty strong and big and I do it all with a super clean diet. Though, since I'm on the wrong side of 30, it's much harder for me. You'll have a much easier time. I do about 4,000-5,000 calories a day approximately 50% fat, 30% protein, and 20% carbs (though I don't weigh or measure my food, that's just what it ends up coming out to). So if I can eat that much and I'm not a growing teenager, that's probably a lower bound for what you need. Just pay attention to your body, if you're feeling tired and not recovering, go with more food; otherwise cut a little and see how you feel. It's all a big personal experiment, only you know how you feel and how you're progressing to your goals (but you need to know what your goals are).

For strength work it's pretty easy. Just keep a log of your lifts and how you feel each day. Then see what kind of food makes you feel best while you keep getting stronger.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 11, 2012
at 02:51 PM

I up voted because you make a great point about the amount of food necessary to achieve lean mass gains. I should have stated earlier that as you increase calories, the % of carbs goes down in relation to fat. 20% carbs is roughly over a 1000 calories (at the quantity you consume) and many on this board would balk at that. I'm not one of those.

2
193f00d53ebcb13940c7a55afc78ad17

on August 10, 2012
at 08:32 PM

Carbs are very helpful for replenishing glycogen stores post workout. That said, the human body is amazing and you don't need them to progress in muscle development (it's just a little less effective). Requisite evidence for both sides of the debate. As for acne, you will have a flare up if/when you fluctuate your hormone levels (which dietary changes will do). But so will puberty and bodybuilding (because you will flux your HGH and testosterone levels).

Coconut oil may be a (slightly) better option as you glide into ketosis, and grassfed lard is better than store bought (most of the off-the-shelf lards are still hydrogenated). That said lard is easy to render at home and butchers will damn near give you the fat for free (just find a grass fed source).

Hope that helps.

0
E6c14efded576a0bea38a2fe2beced6a

on August 11, 2012
at 02:07 PM

First, what exactly are your goals? Trying to make recommendations about carb levels without knowing what you are doing and why is just simply guessing, or more likely trying to sell you on our own experiences.

Second, you are 16. Other than not eating at all there is very little you could do to really screw things up.

Third, no matter what research you find, unless the study was done on you it's only a guide. If you want to try low carb to treat you SIBO then go for it. Again, what effect this will have on your body/training will depend on your goals/workout and many other factors. Keep a detailed log of your performance and results, be honest when assessing yourself, and decide on your own if the ends justify the means.

0
81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 10, 2012
at 10:45 PM

I know this will be contrary to most advice. So flame me if you want to but how many men giving advice have a 2XBW squat/DL or women have a 1.5X squat/DL? These are the starting levels of 'strong'.

If gaining lean mass and strength is your goal, then follow strength training advice. Mark Rippitoe is considered a leading strength trainer (Google him). He says to forget eating clean and think Big Mac when it comes to novice level lifters looking to put on lean mass and gain strength. Not 3000 calories per day but more like 4000-5000 calories per day. He is not the only one in the strength training community who shares this opinion. That doesn't mean eat total garbage. His personal recommendation is to drink as much whole milk as possible (the infamous GOMAD which stands for a Gallon Of Milk A Day).

You are going through a 'magic' time right now. You are in puberty and will gain lean mass at a rate that you will never be able to match again (unless anabolic steroids). So take advantage. Your primary concern should be eating enough. Gain your lean mass and strength, it is harder to do and takes more time. Cutting later will be easier once you have added a significant amount of lean mass.

A9007c998e3b924deebbe9ebb98d4db6

(340)

on August 10, 2012
at 11:23 PM

Isn't the risk with this less-quality-focused approach likely to be higher inflammation and longer recovery time? I am not an active lifter/builder, but I would be interested in comments on this as I coach my son through his teen years.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 11, 2012
at 01:36 PM

Recognize that their is a difference between what is the most effective way to so do something versus saying something will not work. I think the key is creating a calorie surplus with enough protein and a mix of carbs/fats. Carbs being on the low end of that mix (see above where Volek says less than 35% low carb). I gave you advice to EAT because you are 16, can put on lean mass like nobodies business, and this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Most novice lifters stall because they do not eat enough. Once you stall, gains become MUCH harder. This is for strength, not abs.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 11, 2012
at 02:45 PM

I didn't say eat crap. In fact I said not to eat garbage. The advice I would give to a teenager is different from the advice I'd give to an older person. The OP will have to decide what his priorities are (to achieve maximal strength gains or not). To be blunt, I put my faith in men who have made careers out of training people for strength (Olympic lifters and Power lifters). Congrats on the 3.5XDL. That took YEARS to achieve. I am a little over 2X on both and hope to have a 2.5X DL by years end.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 10, 2012
at 11:40 PM

Aging is simply the decline in the ability to recover. Teenagers are at their peak abilities to recover. Inflammation and recovery is not a concern at that age. The majority of the Paleohacks crowd is older and far more sensitive to these issues. The concerns of one age group is not the same for all age groups. I'm not saying eat twinkies and other garbage. GOMAD is whole milk which may be the the most nutritious substance on the planet (combination of protein, good fats, carbs, vitamins, and minerals) for people who want to grow.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 11, 2012
at 02:41 AM

Oh, and don't listen to nutrition advice from most those guys. They delude themselves into thinking exercise cures all.

34997c76c8ce232f28942f233e180f18

(608)

on August 11, 2012
at 08:16 AM

I'm doing SS at the moment, 3k calories everyday, I can't do GOMAD or eat unclean unless I want to breakout in acne. LC is a must for me since I have to deal with SIBO(or whatever I may have), too much vegetables and I'll be passing gas all day, even one fruit will do that to me. Since I have to eat clean, it would be cost prohibitive to eat 4-5k calories. I've gained weight and moved up in my lifts for 2 months now and I hope it stays that way, at least until I can deal with eating more carbs.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 11, 2012
at 02:38 AM

I got all that plus and still eat LC and don't follow any of the standard advice by ripptoe and the like.

510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on August 11, 2012
at 02:19 PM

I'm voting down because I have a 2.5x BW squat and 3.5x DL and I don't eat any crap. I agree with most of what Rip says, but I will never advocate eating crap. You can get big and strong on a clean diet. It may be slower but you can do it (maybe not as big as the GOMAD folks, but that's because of the growth hormones in milk). I prefer the Welbourne approach which is much more closely aligned with paleo.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 10, 2012
at 11:43 PM

Something is seriously wrong if a teenager is having issues with inflammation and recovery. I could play 7 soccer games in a weekend, living off of McDonald's and IHOP (we had to travel for tournaments) and never had an issue with recovery or inflammation at that age. Now, at 31, I have those issues! lol. I know that is anecdotal but I cannot remember any friend that played sports that had issues with recovery or inflammation.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 10, 2012
at 11:47 PM

Remember that teenagers are growing! So even a sedentary teenager needs excess calories to fuel growth. An active teenager will need even more calories (hence the 4000-5000 calorie recommendation).

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on August 11, 2012
at 02:57 AM

Actually they are quite clear that recovery: adequate rest and nutrition are the most important part of strength training. Less is more is a strength training philosophy. Rippitoe in particular cares nothing for being 'lean'. Showing abs has nothing to do with health or being strong. He devotes a chapter to it in his book Starting Strength. I wouldn't not be so quick to say they don't care about nutrition and recovery when they recommend a program that is 3 workouts a week totaling 3 hours a week with resting and recovery being the other portion of the program.

A9007c998e3b924deebbe9ebb98d4db6

(340)

on August 11, 2012
at 12:30 AM

Thanks for the input. This fits well with the view of one of the established Paleo gurus (I forget who), who suggested Paleo is most useful for folks after reaching the age of about 40. A theory subject to validation and personal variances, of course, but at least there seems to be some evidence to support this line of view.

-1
F2c347d7525967f66644a12266639b96

on August 11, 2012
at 02:35 AM

I went from 18% bodyfat to 11% bodyfat a year ago.. Went from 172LBS to 158LBS. Using atkins the first 4 weeks then paleo, low carb, high fat and protein. I consumed 2 protein shakes a day, stuffed my face with bacon bits, cheese, meat, and vegetables. I also worked out 6 days a week. I'm 25 now.

With that being said here's my suggestion.

Even though you're a teenager, it doesn't mean you should eat McDonalds and drink soda everyday. Be efficient! Eat a lot of vegetables and fruits on cardio days, eat salad greens, drop the soda, drink water, and take Kre-Alkalyn 1500(it's creatine pills that don't give you the bloat and you don't have to cycle.) Also drink protein shakes 1 in the morning and 1 after you workout. MY formula for food was 25% protein, 60% fat, 15% carbs. You drop to 10% carbs if you really want to amp up the cutting.

For working out do pyramid sets, i.e sets of 10, 8, 6 and the most weight you can do for each set. Also try to change your workouts every week, by that i mean if you do free weights one week, do machines. If you did all bench for chest, next week do dips, close grip pull-ups, pullovers, and butterflies. The key thing is you want your muscles not to get used the motion, so they're always sore every week. No pain, no gain.

You also gotta understand the muscles you're working out so you're not overtaxing yourself when you do a different workout. I.e if you're working out chest and triceps Monday don't do upper-body Tuesday, do quads and abs.

If you want more ideas visit http://www.simplyshredded.com/ . They got interviews with fitness models and give awesome advice on getting stronger and shredded. Also visit the bodybuilding forums. They talk about all the theories and regimes to getting the type of results you want.

Experimenting is the most important thing of all. People will tell you to do all kinds of crazy stuff but the only way you'll know whats best for you is to try it out. See what gives you the best results and stick with it until you stop seeing the results you want.

If you take any of my advice I give you and go to those sites. I'm pretty sure you'll standout among your peers and among the ladies.(if you like men then men lol.)

F2c347d7525967f66644a12266639b96

on August 12, 2012
at 11:22 AM

What bro-science are you talking about? I'm giving my own personal experience and then referencing places to look for other ideas. Not one workout regime works for everybody. I even mention in the 2nd to last paragraph that you should experiment to see what works for you. Maybe you should read the whole answer instead of offering your own bro-science and acting like a troll.

B1d3dfe470ba901b2b107545b923b024

(184)

on August 12, 2012
at 12:21 AM

different work out every week ....yeahhhh nah & if you want the best strength gains reverse pyramid is the best way to go (start heavy low reps and move to higher reps lower weight through the set) the bro-science is strong in this comment

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