6

votes

So are we getting carried away with all the oil?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created August 07, 2012 at 4:45 PM

An interview with Nate Miyaki where he says that us Paleo folk may be overdoing it somewhat with the 'oil on everything' idea.

Article here:

http://jasonferruggia.com/nutritional-knowledge-bombs-with-nate-miyaki-part-ii/

1296f5fecd084f101d7c5fbe013f07eb

(1213)

on August 09, 2012
at 07:39 AM

He's mostly after what April said and also excessive use of seed and nut oils. I don't regret the quarter cup of raw, grassfed cream in my coffee yesterday morning. It's a good decision for me because I don't struggle with my weight, but boy did I have to bite my tongue when my prof started complaining about her lack of weight loss on Atkins after describing some low carb cheesecake monstrosity she made and was eating twice a day. At the end of the day, you're not going to lose weight eating an excess of 1000 kcals/day, regardless of source.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on August 08, 2012
at 08:53 PM

I'm starting to depend on butter (or ghee) more and more for the bulk of my calories. I usually put two tablespoons of it on top of whatever else I am eating. Granted, the portions are small, so it usually works out to 400-500 calories per meal.

14e1dbdd25db00d2c9db36d6a695f6cb

(159)

on August 08, 2012
at 08:24 PM

I'm totally one of the peeps this article is talking about. Meaning, I add oils probably to the point of excess calories and then complain about why I'm not leaning out! ;)

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on August 08, 2012
at 08:22 PM

Huh. Weird. I guess as a relative newbie to PH, I must have missed some of the fat-extremists!

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 08, 2012
at 08:07 PM

I loved the posts by butter stick eaters. Why oh why. Most of them have gone away.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 08, 2012
at 08:01 PM

Were there enough paleos in those local cultures to affect any genetic propensity we might have to eat a high fat diet. And while I can see the point for paleos eating walrus and mammoth babies, coconut eaters would have been eating a lot of carbs too

5759bd89db5f73cabe0a6e8f8e6e1cb9

(1467)

on August 08, 2012
at 06:14 AM

The article says that fat is not bad. Just this idea of more fat is better' that alot of paleo folks have. It isn't the best way to lose bf if you have more total calories. If you are low carb that's a different matter as long as total calories are not excessive.

5759bd89db5f73cabe0a6e8f8e6e1cb9

(1467)

on August 08, 2012
at 06:11 AM

I used to see a lot of that on paleohacks. I even started doing it when I first went Paleo as for some stupid reason I thought it would be good for me. Obviously I gained weight and did the math.

A7768b6c6be7f5d6acc76e5efa66464c

on August 08, 2012
at 01:18 AM

Perhaps with the exception of those few cultures that had access primarily to things like coconut and whales/seals.

C8549e3ab0e3d77910e72c87cb5e0918

(435)

on August 07, 2012
at 07:28 PM

I pour 2 tbsp of coconut oil on my morning coffee and evening tea. I find coconut oil helpful, and I doubt I could eat enough coconut to get that from whole foods. Plus if anyone is eating low carb, and moderate protein, then it's likely they would need to supplement with fat rather than sticking with just whole foods. If I eat too much protein, I stop losing weight.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 07, 2012
at 05:56 PM

I've been saying to people on these boards for a while that most of "HELP IM GAINING WEIGHT!" threads, of which there are plenty, are prolly too many calories; those calories can easily be due to excessive oil use. If you don't know better you can easily inadvertently add hundreds of cals to any meal. People have to realize that one mere tablespoon of oil or fat has something like 120 calories. But then there are plenty of people who don't care cuz calories don't matter

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on August 07, 2012
at 05:42 PM

I reference Atkins more as the modern brand name (http://www.atkins.com/Products/Advantage-Meals.aspx) than the original work. It's kind of like trying to speak of Marx's philosophy with the shadow of Stalin or Mao hanging over the conversation. No offense intended to Dr. Atkins himself, just to the weight-watchers-esque transfiguration of his work.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on August 07, 2012
at 05:30 PM

Atkins is basically a Paleo diet that discriminates more against fruit and starches. Not sure where this negative connotation about Atkins come from, but it's ill-placed. Dr. Atkins was a hero and helped pave the way for Paleo.

Medium avatar

(10663)

on August 07, 2012
at 04:49 PM

What this interview is saying is that people aren't necessarily getting carried away with oil; they're getting carried away with calories.

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6 Answers

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0
C0c839648b31512515daaffe8e4e9ad1

on August 07, 2012
at 05:09 PM

I would like to find out more about this. I am curious as well. I add olive oil to my meat/salad lunches. I don't drink it and my food isn't swimming in it. It does taste pretty good. That being said, I could go without it if I had to. But that's what I used to do when there was very little fat in my diet. I also get some fat from meat and yogurt and avacados and eggs.

Isn't this good? Or is it bad?

Edit: The article is distasteful.

5759bd89db5f73cabe0a6e8f8e6e1cb9

(1467)

on August 08, 2012
at 06:14 AM

The article says that fat is not bad. Just this idea of more fat is better' that alot of paleo folks have. It isn't the best way to lose bf if you have more total calories. If you are low carb that's a different matter as long as total calories are not excessive.

best answer

0
61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on August 07, 2012
at 05:39 PM

If people are pouring oils on everything they eat, then yes, they are getting carried away.

However, I don't seem to see a lot of that on PaleoHacks. I put an olive oil dressing on my salads and sometimes some butter on steamed veggies or potato, or cook them in bacon fat, but that's about it. Most of my fat comes from dairy, eggs, avocados, and some from meats (still haven't tried the coconut oil stuff). That general structure seems to be pretty normal on PH.

5759bd89db5f73cabe0a6e8f8e6e1cb9

(1467)

on August 08, 2012
at 06:11 AM

I used to see a lot of that on paleohacks. I even started doing it when I first went Paleo as for some stupid reason I thought it would be good for me. Obviously I gained weight and did the math.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 08, 2012
at 08:07 PM

I loved the posts by butter stick eaters. Why oh why. Most of them have gone away.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on August 08, 2012
at 08:53 PM

I'm starting to depend on butter (or ghee) more and more for the bulk of my calories. I usually put two tablespoons of it on top of whatever else I am eating. Granted, the portions are small, so it usually works out to 400-500 calories per meal.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on August 08, 2012
at 08:22 PM

Huh. Weird. I guess as a relative newbie to PH, I must have missed some of the fat-extremists!

best answer

0
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on August 08, 2012
at 07:36 PM

Totally love the article. None of the paleo books or blogs said to go chug down oil like there's no tomorrow. Even proponents of using coconut oil and grassfed butter like Dave Asprey don't say to eat tons of it.

All he's saying is to keep food natural. He specifically mentions industrial oils, which we all agree are bad for us.

I don't see any issue here.

I for one will continue to use high quality extra virgin olive oil in my salad, but that's less than a tablespoon for a big ass salad. I'd rather get my fats from bacon, beef, bison, lamb, eggs, coconut, etc.

And yes, I do bulletproof coffee (or sometimes tea) a few times a week, or go higher on the coconut oil if I want to ensure I enter ketosis, or have some other reason for it (need the ketones to be able to function due to missed sleep.)

There were articles that say that vitamins from veggies are better absorbed if there's some fat associated with that meal, so by all means put some on your salad, just don't make a soup of pure fat with some floating mixed greens out of it. :)

5
Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 07, 2012
at 05:09 PM

All the oil makes perfect sense if ketosis is the objective. The bulk of the daily dietary requirement necessarily shifts from carbs to fat.

I do not believe that our ancestors, especially the paleo ones, ate an invariate high fat diet. I'm reasonably certain that they gorged on fat when it was available. Animals are not fatty or abundant enough for continual high fat feeding. Pre-Neolithic cooking on open fires is not an efficient way to collect rendered fat.

A7768b6c6be7f5d6acc76e5efa66464c

on August 08, 2012
at 01:18 AM

Perhaps with the exception of those few cultures that had access primarily to things like coconut and whales/seals.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 08, 2012
at 08:01 PM

Were there enough paleos in those local cultures to affect any genetic propensity we might have to eat a high fat diet. And while I can see the point for paleos eating walrus and mammoth babies, coconut eaters would have been eating a lot of carbs too

2
0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on August 07, 2012
at 05:04 PM

Is anyone here purposely pouring oil on their food to add fat? I'd argue that you're doing something wrong if so.

That article states:

I???ve always believed people should get the majority of fat as a by-product of high quality protein sources. If for whatever reason you need to add fat, add WHOLE FOOD fats ??? nuts, avocado, coconut, etc. ??? not refined oils.

And that's pretty much exactly where paleo is coming from as well.

I cook in animal fats or tropical oils; I eat avocados, eggs, and fatty meats; I'll eat the occasional spoonful of coconut oil if I'm hungry and in a hurry, or purposely trying to cultivate ketosis; and I'll put an occasional pad of butter on my meals - but I don't ever purposely add more fat than is palatable, nor do I use any sources that significantly affect my PUFA intake.

I'd say this is addressing the Atkins / Zone / low carb fad dieters, moreso than us: people that don't discriminate against frankenfoods, don't recognize the science that an informed diet is based upon.

Unrelatedly, I don't like this author's tone.

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on August 07, 2012
at 05:42 PM

I reference Atkins more as the modern brand name (http://www.atkins.com/Products/Advantage-Meals.aspx) than the original work. It's kind of like trying to speak of Marx's philosophy with the shadow of Stalin or Mao hanging over the conversation. No offense intended to Dr. Atkins himself, just to the weight-watchers-esque transfiguration of his work.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on August 07, 2012
at 05:30 PM

Atkins is basically a Paleo diet that discriminates more against fruit and starches. Not sure where this negative connotation about Atkins come from, but it's ill-placed. Dr. Atkins was a hero and helped pave the way for Paleo.

C8549e3ab0e3d77910e72c87cb5e0918

(435)

on August 07, 2012
at 07:28 PM

I pour 2 tbsp of coconut oil on my morning coffee and evening tea. I find coconut oil helpful, and I doubt I could eat enough coconut to get that from whole foods. Plus if anyone is eating low carb, and moderate protein, then it's likely they would need to supplement with fat rather than sticking with just whole foods. If I eat too much protein, I stop losing weight.

0
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on August 07, 2012
at 05:12 PM

In a word, "Yes," and Nate Miyaki is great. If you are obese and inactive, that is the only time he recommends consuming leaner meats, fruits, and vegetables, and some natural fats like avocado and coconut. If you're active and fit, he recommends a rice farmer diet of meat, fish, vegetables, fruits, and safe starches. The main component that changes is that safe starches are added. It's easy to think of his template as the Perfect Health Diet optimized for athletic performance and aesthetics.

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