13

votes

Significantly overweight? Obese? Post Obese? Feeling Potato-Love?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 13, 2011 at 5:57 AM

???These results are consistent with reports showing that high BMI is associated with decreased prefrontal activity at rest and after meal consumption and that obese subjects have an attenuated postprandial deactivation of the hypothalamus. These altered obesity-associated neural responses to food cues may contribute to overeating behavior, especially several hours after consumption of high-carbohydrate meals, a time when glucose often declines significantly below baseline levels.???

Thus, as the authors conclude:

???These findings demonstrate that circulating glucose modulates neural stimulatory and inhibitory control over food motivation and suggest that this glucose-linked restraining influence is lost in obesity.???

They also speculate that:

???Strategies that temper postprandial reductions in glucose levels might reduce the risk of overeating, particularly in environments inundated with visual cues of high-calorie foods.???

One strategy to avoid drops in blood glucose levels is not to allow yourself to go hungry by consuming smaller but more frequent meals. The other is perhaps to chose low-glycemic index foods in order to prevent the ???crash-and-crave??? drive that follows rapid changes in blood glucose levels.

The study, certainly provides further evidence for important ???biological??? differences between non-obese and obese people - while the former experience ???natural??? appetite suppression with high-normal glucose levels, the latter do not experience such a suppression of appetite and will need to resort to conscious restraint - a far more difficult undertaking.

http://www.drsharma.ca/obesityblood-glucose-levels-modulate-neural-control-of-appetite.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21926468

EDIT: I am editing this to add two articles that I have previously shared in more than one PH response previously. I am adding them because they round out the info concerning the BIG differences found in post obese or significantly weight reduced people, so they provide additional and very important info for considering the very different bodies that we , the post-obese and sigificantly weight reduced must manage. And to be clear, the incusion of "potatoes" in the title was tongue in cheek. As per the article,we are talking about foods that stimulate signifcant glucose response.

"As readers will recall, the biology of the post-weight loss state is nothing like the biology of someone who has never lost weight. There are countless ways in which the psychoneurobiology, energy physiology and metabolism in anyone who has lost weight are remarkably different from someone ???naturally??? of that weight.

Simply stated, someone who was 150 lbs and has lost 20 lbs cannot hope to maintain that weight loss by simply eating the same amount of food or doing the same amount of exercise as someone who is ???naturally??? a 130 lbs.

The 150 lbs person who has lost 20 lbs, to maintain their new 130 lbs, has to actually now live like someone who is ???naturally??? a 110 lbs; just eating like someone who is 130 lbs but has never lost weight, will simply result in rapid weight regain.

This is why just cutting out a few ???extra??? calories or walking a few ???extra??? steps is not an effective or sustainable strategy for maintaining weight loss - for any clinically meaningful weight loss (when indicated) - we are looking at cutting hundreds of calories from the diet and adding hours of serious exercise per week - forever!"

"The consistent finding from all such studies is that all individuals or animals in a post-weight-loss state face considerable ???homeostatic pressure??? that aims to drive their weight back to initial levels.

The paper extensively discusses how changes in biological signals of fat stores (e.g. leptin) elicit profound metabolic and behavioural adaptations - a topic that I dealt with extensively in previous posts.

The key findings of increased hunger and appetite, reduced satiety and substantially increased ???fuel efficiency??? have very real underlying biological drivers - drivers powerful enough to ultimately wear down even the most persistent dieter.

As the authors point out - persistent dieting is so difficult because it requires maintaining a remarkably large ???energy gap???"

http://www.drsharma.ca/obesity-why-diet-and-exercise-is-not-a-treatment-for-obesity.html

"One of the key underlying problems is that when people lose weight, their energy expenditure does not simply fall to that of the energy expenditure of a person ???naturally??? at that lower weight - it drops to levels far greater than expected.

Thus, a formerly-obese person burns 20% less calories than a never-obese person of that lower weight - or in other words a 200 lb person, who loses 40 lbs burns about 20% fewer calories than someone who is 160 lbs, but has never been obese. On top of this, the formerly-obese person experiences hunger, cold intolerance, and other behavioural and metabolic changes that make sustaining this lower body weight difficult."

"In a large series of carefully conducted energy balance studies in humans, Leibel examined the impact of weight loss on energy expenditure, energy intake, neuroendocrine function, autonomic physiology, metabolism and brain imaging.

Whereas a short-term increase in body weight by 10 % results in a transient increase in energy expenditure, this returns to baseline, when the weight is lost. This means that weight-loss per se does not reduce energy expenditure.

On the other hand, a 10% drop in body weight immediately reduces energy expenditure by as much as 20%.

Interestingly, this fall in energy expenditure is not simply due to a fall in metabolic rate, but largely due to a decline in activity expenditure. This means that the body ???saves??? energy not simply by turning down the furnace, but by becoming substantially more ???fuel efficient??? during activity. In other words, someone who loses weight, will burn substantially fewer calories for a given amount of exercise than for the same amount of exercise performed before weight loss."

http://www.drsharma.ca/obesitywhy-is-it-so-hard-to-maintain-a-reduced-body-weight.html

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on December 22, 2011
at 07:08 PM

Rose, you are such an inspiration! Thank you for your courage, honesty, and brilliance. :)

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on November 17, 2011
at 03:38 AM

lol Doris, i needed that. i do have a tendancey to change horses often and usually with bad results; well except that i discover another thing that doesn not work for me :)

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 16, 2011
at 09:55 PM

(cont) High grade micronutrient supplementation has also been very helpful to me. Hang in there! And yeah, as per your comment above, it can be a real mind-fracker!!!!!

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 16, 2011
at 09:52 PM

@Cody: Thank you for the personal truth of your response. And congratulations! I, too, run what I call a "change-it-up" scheme to make maintenance work. In a crazy kind of way, and a humorous one, I view my body as a sort of beastie that I in in a loooooong term race with - that I am going to win. Sometimes I even have crazy coversations with this beastie-bod! The bottom line is, we develop tools and use them. I've become afine artist of IF and of the use of various tools, like just the right amount of 1/2 caff coffee to tamp down the hunger beast so that I can work out fasted, etc.

0e395acc856e3353f3f5892e6b09b0e7

(1227)

on November 16, 2011
at 04:17 PM

@sage Idon't know why but when I read your comment, I wanted to call out. "No Sage don't go into that dark cellar." As if a potato bin represents a scene from a Steven King movie. Even though, for me, who suffered from constipation, now feel better after adding in a few starches. I was not obese or terribly overweight to start with. Just Beware of those potatoes calling your name. Could there be a big enough potato to satisfy The Hunger?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 16, 2011
at 02:30 PM

Aye, the people who are naturally thin just don't get it. It's not as simple as lowering your calories and increasing your activity. It simply isn't. Its the most supreme mind-fracking you'll pretty much ever have, losing weight.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 14, 2011
at 07:41 PM

As always, Rose, thank you, wise, wise woman! <3

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 14, 2011
at 01:27 AM

Been there, sister. Sometimes it actually seems strange now that I don't have all those cravings and can go the better part of a day without thinking about food once.

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on November 14, 2011
at 12:09 AM

thank you mem :)

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on November 14, 2011
at 12:08 AM

((((((hugs)))))) you are a very generous person

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 13, 2011
at 09:25 PM

@Quilt: Thanks. I like your response. It's a loooong work in progress for me. As a formerly ~ 240 woman who maintained 148-ish from 02-a year ago and is now 132-ish, I actually believe that my setpoint is lowered to around 175. But that is still a difficult gig...as my body would like to z00mright on up to 175. I keep working with it...no giving up here. ;)

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 13, 2011
at 09:22 PM

(cont') importance to "stay the course" with that which we have often quite painfully learned through our bodies, and through often multiple weight loss episodes.Losing the weight is important. But keeping it - MAINTAINING it is the really, really hard part. We are surrounded by a whole world of ppl who unwittingly, naively, perhaps, conspire to help us load it back on. Anyhow, congratualtions and keep on keepin' on. I edited with additional info in my question that you may find very helpfu. Thanks for responding!

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 13, 2011
at 09:16 PM

Nance, it sounds like you are doing great, and are paying attention to what your body tells you. I think what is reassuring with studies like this, even though the news isn't "good" is that it they give us info that grounds/validates our experiece as significantly weight reduced people. The changes with significant weight reduction are very, very poorly understood by those who have not learned them via their bodies or read the work of folks like Arya Sharma, who is arguably a world class bariatrics expert. From my experiece, it is important to seek ongoing information, but it is of EQUAL

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 13, 2011
at 09:08 PM

(con't) of our former weights, while our energy needs are reduced by at least 20% below our current weights. Thus, I as a person who is weight reduced from about 240lbs, am living in 132lb body, with the hunger of a MUCH larger person, and the energy needs of a 112 lb (or less) person. Additionally, post obese bodies are substantially more fuel efficient and thus, when we exercise, etc., we will burn substantilly fewer calories than a non weight reduced person.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 13, 2011
at 09:04 PM

@Sage: I have added more info to round out the original question. The reference to potatoes was tongue in cheek, as potatoes simply seem to be the food that comes up VERY frequently on PH as it befuddles a number of those who have never experieced signifcant weight loss as to why foods with a GI/GL like potatoes are a problem for many LC weight reduced persons. Hopefully, some of the info I added above will be helpful to you. The fact is, the vast majority of significantly weight reduced persons live with the need to manage hunger as a way of life. We have bodies which have the hunger

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on November 13, 2011
at 06:26 PM

i will have to test this myself; i haven't had potatoes for breakfast in a long time.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 13, 2011
at 06:22 PM

I have the same pattern but the difference for me is that if I eat carbs it becomes an insane need to eat. Not eating or eating LC keeps the urge at a level I can resist knowing it will subside.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on November 13, 2011
at 04:49 PM

Precisely why you need the hypothalamus and pre fontal cortices to undergo neuroplastic change to solve obesity. These are core concepts to the Leptin Rx. You keep chipping away with these type of articles and soon it will click. plus one. Functional MRI show we can change these areas with thoughts and re training if one knows how to apply it.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 13, 2011
at 04:03 PM

gydle: The "question" is porrly worded as it was late and I was tired and not feeling well as well. Ambimorph's rewording is perfect: Do you think that obese and never-obese people have the same response to glucose and that an obese or post obese should just relax and have a potato?!" The point is that this is yet another piece of research that says that what the nuero-reg systems of obese/postob ppl do in the presence of normal glucose loads is very different. Lean = satiety ob/postob = HUNGER after those potatoes!

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on November 13, 2011
at 03:57 PM

Very interesting mem!

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on November 13, 2011
at 02:21 PM

Do you think that if they just went paleo while lowering fat and calories, they wouldn't have to do that carb-restriction nonsense?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on November 13, 2011
at 02:20 PM

Maybe the question is, do you think that obese and non-obese people have the same response to glucose, and that an obese or post-obese person should just relax and have a potato?

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on November 13, 2011
at 11:53 AM

Not sure I understand what the question is...

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4 Answers

best answer

6
3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on November 13, 2011
at 11:48 PM

"These altered obesity-associated neural responses to food cues may contribute to overeating behavior, especially several hours after consumption of high-carbohydrate meals, a time when glucose often declines significantly below baseline levels."

In my case, it was definitely true that the fatter I got, the hungrier I got. When I was younger and just overweight, but not obese, I could restrict my food intake fairly easily, and even though standard diets like WW seemed to have zero effect on my body fat, I could stick to them for months and months (of course I'd eventually give up in frustration, since nothing seemed to be happening despite paying the monthly fee and eating less than I really wanted to).

But things changed when I got closer to 200 pounds, and especially at my heaviest, around 220 or so. I'd never cried over food before, but when I was following my nutritionist's 1,200 calorie low-fat, high-whole-grain diet, I had times when I sat in my office crying and hating myself for feeling like I was going to die of starvation waiting for 10:00 am to roll around so I could eat my morning snack of two Ak-Mak crackers, after my 7:00 am breakfast of plain oatmeal and fruit, or non-fat yogurt. I'm not kidding -- the hunger was so overwhelming that all I could think of were those two damn crackers in the ziploc baggie in my purse, and it took every ounce of strength I had to not eat them an hour earlier than I was supposed to.

Good times, good times.

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on November 14, 2011
at 12:08 AM

((((((hugs)))))) you are a very generous person

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 14, 2011
at 01:27 AM

Been there, sister. Sometimes it actually seems strange now that I don't have all those cravings and can go the better part of a day without thinking about food once.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 14, 2011
at 07:41 PM

As always, Rose, thank you, wise, wise woman! <3

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 16, 2011
at 02:30 PM

Aye, the people who are naturally thin just don't get it. It's not as simple as lowering your calories and increasing your activity. It simply isn't. Its the most supreme mind-fracking you'll pretty much ever have, losing weight.

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on December 22, 2011
at 07:08 PM

Rose, you are such an inspiration! Thank you for your courage, honesty, and brilliance. :)

6
B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on November 13, 2011
at 06:19 PM

The point is that this is yet another piece of research that says that what the nuero-reg systems of obese/postob ppl do in the presence of normal glucose loads is very different. Lean = satiety ob/postob = HUNGER after those potatoes!

i wonder if this explains the hunger i experience immediately and for several hour after i eat? i have found that if i just ignore it, the hunger goes away. if i eat more to try to satisfy it; it doesn't go away. the only piece that does not fit is that my diet is LC most of the time.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 13, 2011
at 06:22 PM

I have the same pattern but the difference for me is that if I eat carbs it becomes an insane need to eat. Not eating or eating LC keeps the urge at a level I can resist knowing it will subside.

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on November 13, 2011
at 06:26 PM

i will have to test this myself; i haven't had potatoes for breakfast in a long time.

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on November 14, 2011
at 12:09 AM

thank you mem :)

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 13, 2011
at 09:04 PM

@Sage: I have added more info to round out the original question. The reference to potatoes was tongue in cheek, as potatoes simply seem to be the food that comes up VERY frequently on PH as it befuddles a number of those who have never experieced signifcant weight loss as to why foods with a GI/GL like potatoes are a problem for many LC weight reduced persons. Hopefully, some of the info I added above will be helpful to you. The fact is, the vast majority of significantly weight reduced persons live with the need to manage hunger as a way of life. We have bodies which have the hunger

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 13, 2011
at 09:08 PM

(con't) of our former weights, while our energy needs are reduced by at least 20% below our current weights. Thus, I as a person who is weight reduced from about 240lbs, am living in 132lb body, with the hunger of a MUCH larger person, and the energy needs of a 112 lb (or less) person. Additionally, post obese bodies are substantially more fuel efficient and thus, when we exercise, etc., we will burn substantilly fewer calories than a non weight reduced person.

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on November 17, 2011
at 03:38 AM

lol Doris, i needed that. i do have a tendancey to change horses often and usually with bad results; well except that i discover another thing that doesn not work for me :)

0e395acc856e3353f3f5892e6b09b0e7

(1227)

on November 16, 2011
at 04:17 PM

@sage Idon't know why but when I read your comment, I wanted to call out. "No Sage don't go into that dark cellar." As if a potato bin represents a scene from a Steven King movie. Even though, for me, who suffered from constipation, now feel better after adding in a few starches. I was not obese or terribly overweight to start with. Just Beware of those potatoes calling your name. Could there be a big enough potato to satisfy The Hunger?

3
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 13, 2011
at 06:15 PM

(Do you think that obese and never-obese people have the same response to glucose and that an obese or post obese should just relax and have a potato?) mem

Basically, no I don't. I speak as a less-obese person than 6 months ago. I start my day with meat and fat. Any starchy veggies, including potato, must follow that or my appeptite will fire up big-time. If I "relax and have a potato" by itself I'll slip to a binge within a week because willpower can only hold so long.

Even after 6 months and 30+ pounds lost, I'm still pretty reactive to starch. Therefore, a typical meal for me starts with meat, then non-starchy veggies and 1-2 bites of sweet potato or potato. If I'm having fruit that day, it comes at the end.

If I start a meal with either starch or fruit, I still get the spike-and-crash that makes sensible eating very difficult. If I eat as described above, I'm usually not hungry again until the next day--and I'm hungry for meat first.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 13, 2011
at 09:16 PM

Nance, it sounds like you are doing great, and are paying attention to what your body tells you. I think what is reassuring with studies like this, even though the news isn't "good" is that it they give us info that grounds/validates our experiece as significantly weight reduced people. The changes with significant weight reduction are very, very poorly understood by those who have not learned them via their bodies or read the work of folks like Arya Sharma, who is arguably a world class bariatrics expert. From my experiece, it is important to seek ongoing information, but it is of EQUAL

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 13, 2011
at 09:22 PM

(cont') importance to "stay the course" with that which we have often quite painfully learned through our bodies, and through often multiple weight loss episodes.Losing the weight is important. But keeping it - MAINTAINING it is the really, really hard part. We are surrounded by a whole world of ppl who unwittingly, naively, perhaps, conspire to help us load it back on. Anyhow, congratualtions and keep on keepin' on. I edited with additional info in my question that you may find very helpfu. Thanks for responding!

2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 16, 2011
at 02:39 PM

As someone who has lost over 100 pounds and still has another 100 to go, this really resonates with me.

My experience is such that, I feel that my "setpoint" has gone down significantly, and that I can comfortably maintain my weight loss if, and this is a BIG if, I throw in a few low calorie days per week. So it ends up being a few days of eating what I want (mostly paleo of course) with a few days of high-fat, ketogenic eating. And this keeps me where I am at.

To lose?

Ha ha. That is fun. So much fun. NOT.

800 to 1000 calories per day, or less. And the only thing that works anymore is a PSMF.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 16, 2011
at 09:52 PM

@Cody: Thank you for the personal truth of your response. And congratulations! I, too, run what I call a "change-it-up" scheme to make maintenance work. In a crazy kind of way, and a humorous one, I view my body as a sort of beastie that I in in a loooooong term race with - that I am going to win. Sometimes I even have crazy coversations with this beastie-bod! The bottom line is, we develop tools and use them. I've become afine artist of IF and of the use of various tools, like just the right amount of 1/2 caff coffee to tamp down the hunger beast so that I can work out fasted, etc.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on November 16, 2011
at 09:55 PM

(cont) High grade micronutrient supplementation has also been very helpful to me. Hang in there! And yeah, as per your comment above, it can be a real mind-fracker!!!!!

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