8

votes

All this talk about grams of carbohydrate. Are we talking with or without fiber???

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 01, 2011 at 6:17 PM

People talk about VLC, LC, 20g per day, 100g per day, etc. but I haven???t been able to find anything specifying whether conventionally this means net of fiber or including fiber.

I???ve been trying to do 30g to 50g per day, but that???s net of about 20-25g of fiber per day. Is there a standard way of talking about this? If not I can see that causing a lot of confusion as you can end up eating a lot of fiber if avocados and fibrous vegetables are eaten daily.

(Separated out from an earlier thread that asked too many unrelated questions!)

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on August 05, 2011
at 10:36 PM

Beets have too much sugar and is not ok for diabetics. Carrots are ok for me but it has fructose; some people would rather avoid it. Depends on what kind of pumpkin. Winter squash are usually a bit too starchy. You defer to the manufacturer's nutrition label. If it's not available, I would go to sites like caloriecounter.com or nutritiondata.com, where the data seem to be reliable and available for a variety of vegetables in different states: boiled, broiled, salted, raw, unsalted, oven-baked, etc.

669790861549f3c6d54d88a65296ed19

(452)

on August 03, 2011
at 01:34 PM

Interesting...are carrots,beets,pumpkin also non-starchy carbs? I also find that Fitday and other trackers all tend to diverse in carbcontent. For instance,when I bought an organic pumpkin the label said "2gr.of carbs per 100gr.,of which 1.5gr.sugar(?)" while some online trackersite calculated 7gr.carbs per 100grams. So what to believe anyway?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 02, 2011
at 02:23 PM

I don't eat lettuce, but I do eat a little dulse now and then. I wouldn't be surprised if I could handle a little lettuce, but the question is how much. A big salad every day appears to be too much (for me).

91d422b073139d35e0856967ba1c21d6

(1054)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:42 AM

Fascinating. I may need to go to that extent to lose the last 10 lbs of fat. Do you eat even lettuce?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 02, 2011
at 03:56 AM

So what that you read changed your mind?

C2ad96801ec1e22d2bf62475b6e52751

(1416)

on August 02, 2011
at 01:57 AM

Jack, that question would require a page of its own.

91d422b073139d35e0856967ba1c21d6

(1054)

on August 02, 2011
at 12:37 AM

Couldn't find anything on a standard that is generally used here when grams of carbs are discussed. Thank you!!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 01, 2011
at 11:09 PM

i have a sincere advice: don't waste your life on counting how many angels can dance on the point of a needle tiny fractions of macronutrients

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on August 01, 2011
at 09:11 PM

Doesn't give me any issues with carb cravings but I've been in ketosis for almost 8 months. I don't know if they'd give me issues had I tried to use it in my first couple of months, because I was a lot more likely to fall off the bandwagon back then.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on August 01, 2011
at 08:18 PM

You don't know the difference betwene soluble and insoluble fiber. Insoluble fiber basically hits your stool unchanged. Soluble fiber is changed but it still lowers your BG. Eat 65g of yams and next day eat a whole avocado. You have similar carbs but net carbs is close to nil for the avocado. What will your BG meter say?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 01, 2011
at 07:48 PM

you are correct tony. so now the question is... why did you go to law school?

C2ad96801ec1e22d2bf62475b6e52751

(1416)

on August 01, 2011
at 07:22 PM

I guess it would come down to a person's purpose for counting carbohydrate grams (which in this community tends to be their tendency to effect insulin secretion). I had thought that insoluble fiber was not counted because it was not digested, and thus *not* an energy source. And if I am wrong, that's why I went to law school.

91d422b073139d35e0856967ba1c21d6

(1054)

on August 01, 2011
at 06:26 PM

My dentist also gave me some xylitol gum and mints, I've been avoiding them for fear that they will make me crave carbs. Do you notice a difference when you chew versus not chew?

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8 Answers

best answer

3
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 02, 2011
at 03:55 AM

Because of my experience of getting much healthier going carnivore/ZC, I no longer think of fiber as metabolically inert or harmless. When I ate VLC, almost all of my carb intake was fiber, and I simply was not thriving the way I am now.

Ironically, what the Jaminets talk about as a "zero carb" diet is exactly this kind of net-VLC diet with very little non-fibrous carbohydrate, and a moderate amount of fibrous carbohydrate. It was taking out the fibrous carbs that positively turned my health around.

91d422b073139d35e0856967ba1c21d6

(1054)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:42 AM

Fascinating. I may need to go to that extent to lose the last 10 lbs of fat. Do you eat even lettuce?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 02, 2011
at 02:23 PM

I don't eat lettuce, but I do eat a little dulse now and then. I wouldn't be surprised if I could handle a little lettuce, but the question is how much. A big salad every day appears to be too much (for me).

3
Medium avatar

on August 01, 2011
at 07:44 PM

I always count net carbs, so on a non-workout day I'd want to hit at least 130g of net carbs to replete liver glycogen stores consumed throughout the day (5g an hour). There's likely a small amount of muscle glycogen consumed on such a day as well, so I'll round up to about 150.

2
41dfb1a4fecb38d24075ff52f13ccb28

on August 02, 2011
at 12:08 AM

I look only at total carbs. Whenever I counted net carbs, things went haywire for me - probably because I was actually taking in more carbs than my body could handle, but I didn't think of it that way because my net number was low. If I stick to total, things go better for me.

2
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 01, 2011
at 06:59 PM

Separating fiber from the carbohydrate content of a food is wholly marketing BS from companies who benefit from promoting it. Nonsense. Think about it: if you're putting in your mouth and it's going in to your body then it's being used as some sort of energy substrate. What's next, people going to subtract out the pieces of corn in their poo from their daily caloric intake.

C2ad96801ec1e22d2bf62475b6e52751

(1416)

on August 02, 2011
at 01:57 AM

Jack, that question would require a page of its own.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 01, 2011
at 07:48 PM

you are correct tony. so now the question is... why did you go to law school?

C2ad96801ec1e22d2bf62475b6e52751

(1416)

on August 01, 2011
at 07:22 PM

I guess it would come down to a person's purpose for counting carbohydrate grams (which in this community tends to be their tendency to effect insulin secretion). I had thought that insoluble fiber was not counted because it was not digested, and thus *not* an energy source. And if I am wrong, that's why I went to law school.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on August 01, 2011
at 08:18 PM

You don't know the difference betwene soluble and insoluble fiber. Insoluble fiber basically hits your stool unchanged. Soluble fiber is changed but it still lowers your BG. Eat 65g of yams and next day eat a whole avocado. You have similar carbs but net carbs is close to nil for the avocado. What will your BG meter say?

2
3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

on August 01, 2011
at 06:54 PM

This is why many people tend to overestmate their carb intake. Most Paleos and low carbers eat plenty of fibrous vegetables, not just the green ones. Fiber will slow your BG rise, and the effect is to reduce your glycemic load. Most glycemic load numbers for avocadoes, for example, reflect this.

Then, you might want to also consider the following observation made by Jaminet in PHD: the gut bacteria tend to consume most of the remaining carbs from non-starchy vegetables. So unless you're consuming yams and potatoes, your carb intake may actually be lower than what you calculate, including your NET CARB calculation.

That makes sense to me since I'm still ketogenic around 65-95g of net carbs per diem. Total carbs is probably around 100 if not a bit higher.

669790861549f3c6d54d88a65296ed19

(452)

on August 03, 2011
at 01:34 PM

Interesting...are carrots,beets,pumpkin also non-starchy carbs? I also find that Fitday and other trackers all tend to diverse in carbcontent. For instance,when I bought an organic pumpkin the label said "2gr.of carbs per 100gr.,of which 1.5gr.sugar(?)" while some online trackersite calculated 7gr.carbs per 100grams. So what to believe anyway?

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on August 05, 2011
at 10:36 PM

Beets have too much sugar and is not ok for diabetics. Carrots are ok for me but it has fructose; some people would rather avoid it. Depends on what kind of pumpkin. Winter squash are usually a bit too starchy. You defer to the manufacturer's nutrition label. If it's not available, I would go to sites like caloriecounter.com or nutritiondata.com, where the data seem to be reliable and available for a variety of vegetables in different states: boiled, broiled, salted, raw, unsalted, oven-baked, etc.

2
98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

on August 01, 2011
at 06:47 PM

I think most hear speak in terms of total(gross) carbs not net carbs just because the group as a whole seems to loathe counting anything so the additional math would make heads explode I think. We're all basically talking about carbs that have a good bit of fiber in them so it should all come out in the wash except for the rice and most of the fruit. In the big picture it doesn't really matter if you are dialed in to your own body and what it wants and needs but it can make communication a bit of an issue.

This issue has come up before so you might do a search and see what you can find.

91d422b073139d35e0856967ba1c21d6

(1054)

on August 02, 2011
at 12:37 AM

Couldn't find anything on a standard that is generally used here when grams of carbs are discussed. Thank you!!

2
1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

on August 01, 2011
at 06:24 PM

I don't generally count fiber towards my carbs for the day and I eat VLC. So I try to keep my so called "net carbs" under 20. I do, however, count stuff like stevia and sugar alcohols (I use xylitol for dental health reasons) since it has a slight insuligenic effect.

91d422b073139d35e0856967ba1c21d6

(1054)

on August 01, 2011
at 06:26 PM

My dentist also gave me some xylitol gum and mints, I've been avoiding them for fear that they will make me crave carbs. Do you notice a difference when you chew versus not chew?

1da74185531d6d4c7182fb9ee417f97f

(10904)

on August 01, 2011
at 09:11 PM

Doesn't give me any issues with carb cravings but I've been in ketosis for almost 8 months. I don't know if they'd give me issues had I tried to use it in my first couple of months, because I was a lot more likely to fall off the bandwagon back then.

0
345c1755efe005edd162b770dc6fb821

(8767)

on August 01, 2011
at 09:37 PM

I always use to remove the fiber from the carbs, that was my adkins day.

Now, after much reading when I started, I keep them in there. Fitday also keeps net carbs added into the carb column as well. It seems like the way to look at everything as a whole.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 02, 2011
at 03:56 AM

So what that you read changed your mind?

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